The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I know you worship at the alter of Keim but if you can’t see his bias on this then you’re looking for what you want to see rather than what’s in front of you.  
 

He’s lost objectively on this.  And he has said his preference was Daniels. Openly he’s said it’s his preference.  
 

It’s fine.  It’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it.  
 

But if you can’t see he has an opinion, you’re missing something fairly obvious right in front of you. 

 

Yep just like that time you told me that Bram-Keim aren't saying what i did on the O line, and I am letting MY bias get in the way and I then followed up on your post by actually transcribing what they said and it basically matched what I said word for word.

 

You are the one IMO who has lost all objectivity.  Again.  It's beyond even silly -- its hard for me to believe that you actually listen to Keim or have followed him that closely. When people have asked Keim who he would take, he said Daniels but that's because of what coaches have told him.  Before that he said Maye.  Keim doesn't give a rats behind who they take.  He's not a fan of this team.  He's not pals with Daniels. 

 

If I had to pick the weirdest development with the Civil War with Washington fans between Maye and Daniels is that Keim is getting roasted for saying anything on the subject even though he's been vague and noncommital as heck.

Edited April 21 by Skinsinparadise

[FrFan]

13 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

As we’re pondering p2s ratios, and arm strength, processing speed and all kinds of other variables it’s easy to forget that being a qb also requires the ability to motivate your teammates and sometimes that means finding a common denominator— one that literally pays off in victories.

 

”Show me the money”

I was not a Brady fan, but I recognize his superior relentless will to win, he would stop at nothing to get even the tiniest edge over his opponents.

Edited April 21 by FrFan

[WashingtonRedWolves]

As expected, nearly everyone is laughing at the notion of us taking jj #2. Dude gets so much hate

Edited April 21 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

As expected, nearly everyone is laughing at the notion of us taking jj #2. Dude gets so much hate

Saying he's QB 4 in one of the most loaded QB drafts in history is not exactly "hate". 

[CommanderInTheRye]

@WashingtonRedWolves wrote:

nearly everyone is laughing at the notion of us taking jj...

 

 

Don't forget my friend that he who laughs last...

 

 

either laughs best, totally missed the joke, or is a follower not a leader. 🙂

 

Edited April 21 by CommanderInTheRye

[clskinsfan]

13 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Daniels is Randall Cunningham, Maye is Ben Roethlisberger for arguments sake.....compare their career injuries. Ben got beaten up as any QB ever, possibly because of his size and immobility. Guys like Daniels are athletes and athletes adjust, especially with good coaching. Just saying that bigger doesn't necessarily mean healthier in the NFL. 

Cunningham missed a lot of time to injury. So not really sure I get the point you are trying to make here?

12 hours ago, Conn said:

Spielman’s not part of the process in our FO despite advising Harris on the GM hire…but he’s gone from saying we “should” take Maye to “will” take Maye. It’s interesting given he knows people in the building and helped hire some of them 

Yeah. This is the first time Spielman has gone in and said we are taking Maye. I think him saying it means something.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

As expected, nearly everyone is laughing at the notion of us taking jj #2. Dude gets so much hate

 

I think you're being overly sensitive here. Most people in this forum have basically said "McCarthy is a solid prospect, but I think he'd be a reach at #2 overall and I wouldn't draft him there"

 

That's not "hate". Saying "McCarthy sucks and I wouldn't even draft him in the 7th round" would be hate. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know he's become controversial to some but for those who are curious Keim..

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39971423/commanders-change-trajectory-2024-nfl-draft

 

 

 

Commanders can change franchise trajectory in 2024 NFL draft

One league source said the direction "has already been changed" considering the number of free agents they've already brought in.

Indeed, Washington signed 22 free agents in addition to re-signing four of its own. The Commanders added at least eight new starters via free agency, including linebackers Bobby Wagner and Frankie Luvu and tight end Zach Ertz. They also added third-down back Austin Ekeler.

"He's got a massive decision in front of him, starting with his very first pick," NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. "So that's a lot of pressure. That's difficult when you are just coming together with a coach and a general manager, not to mention new owner, new organization and trying to learn your existing roster. They were very aggressive in free agency in terms of bringing in a lot of guys. So trying to make all these pieces fit. And then, oh, by the way, right away you've got to make a call on the quarterback position and make sure that you get that right."

 

Even if they didn't have all those picks in the top 100 -- and only had the second -- the choice would still be pivotal to their future. Washington has drafted five quarterbacks in the first round since 1994; only one has started 52 or more games (Jason Campbell) for the team. Those quarterbacks have made an average of 27.4 starts for Washington.

"It's monumental," said former NFL general manager Marc Ross on the importance of getting the No. 2 pick right. "They've been in quarterback purgatory, or hell, for a long time. They have to make it right."

Ross pointed to the Houston Texans last season as proof of what can happen when you draft the right quarterback. The Texans, under first-year coach DeMeco Ryans, went from 3-13-1 in 2022 to 10-7 last season in quarterback C.J. Stroud's first season. Washington was 4-13 last year.

 

"Use the Texans as a blueprint," said Ross, who thinks Washington should select LSU's Jayden Daniels at No. 2. "At this point, that team was in utter despair."

But their success stemmed from more than just drafting Stroud. Houston also drafted defensive end Will Anderson Jr. one pick after the quarterback. Both made the Pro Bowl.

"The key for us is all about the people, adding CJ, adding Will," Ryans said at the league meetings last month. "Two tremendous young men, two great leaders. Adding those two helped turn it around. Everyone saw, no matter if it was veteran players or young players, what those guys brought every single day. They were easy to follow. ... The biggest challenge was it all starts with the people. It's not about a scheme, it's about adding the right people to the organization."

The Commanders also have two picks in the second round (36 and 40) and three in the third (67, 78 and 100). They need to find a starting left tackle, whether it's by trading back into the first round or by landing one in the second round.

They've met with multiple edge rushers for visits who could go late first or early second, including Penn State's Chop Robinson. They've also brought in a number of cornerbacks for top-30 visits -- all considered big corners; most of whom would be projected in the third round or later.

With all their top-100 picks, Jeremiah suggested Washington could trade back into the first round to select a left tackle. So the assets can be used in many ways to help. One NFL scout said Washington should look to acquire more capital in the 2025 draft which, he said, will be one of the deepest in a while.

 

"Those top six really allow us to make a dramatic impact on our roster right away," Washington assistant general manager Lance Newmark said.

Finding strong contributors at premium positions would also enable them to spend more on other roster spots over the next four years. Stroud, for example, received $36,279,246 in guaranteed money with a base salary of $2,399,057. Cincinnati's Joe Burrow, the first overall pick in 2020, signed an extension last offseason that included $219 million in guaranteed money. Positions such as left tackle and defensive end also see larger increases on second deals -- if the player produces.

Eventually a team must pay those players, too.

"That's a good problem to have," Ross said. "That means you got good players so you did the right thing. You deal with that when it comes. I'd rather hit and then have to pay rather than miss -- then you're scrambling and out of a job."

Of Washington's 11 picks in rounds 1-3 from 2017-2020, only three received a second contract from the team -- defensive tackles Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen and receiver Terry McLaurin. The Commanders will have a decision to make on four players from the 2021 class after this season.

 

Washington's recent drafts are part of the reason the team is in a tough spot. The Commanders might have only nine players from their last five drafts combined who start this season. They have no players left from the 2020 draft that included defensive end Chase Young as the second overall choice. He was traded to San Francisco for a third-round pick last season.

Since 2016 Washington has drafted 68 players; only four have appeared in a Pro Bowl while playing for the organization. And since 1990 only one Washington draft pick has been named first-team All-Pro while playing for the team -- guard Brandon Scherff in 2020.

But in their first season as a revamped organization, Washington has a chance to change this past.

"You want to just make sure you nail it whether that's the second pick or the second round, the third round," Peters said. "All of these players potentially have a chance to have a really high impact."

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, illone said:

😎
 

Bro at this point I'm actually kinda rooting for you to win that bet. 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[MartinC]

55 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I figured y’all lived for this stuff lol

Become a MOD they said, it will be rewarding they said …

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

 

From the article...

 

2 - Jayden Daniels, LSU

 

It was nothing but praise for Jayden Daniels, who is expected to be the second pick in the draft. The obvious was mentioned; Daniels has taken a huge leap forward over the past season. My own personal opinion is that Daniels began elevating his game at the midpoint of the 2022 season.

 

While there may be concerns about Daniels’ pocket stature, I was told that of the top quarterbacks in the draft, he is the most ready of the group and will have the most success as a starter this season.

 

3 - Drake Maye, North Carolina

 

Drake Maye was described in an interesting way from a football perspective: “He’s not immature but he’s not ready.” He believes Maye will need at least a year before he’s ready to step under center, and that year must be spent working on throwing mechanics and fundamentals.

 

NFL scouts and decision makers look at what a player does well as a primary indicator in their evaluation. My guy believes this is relevant to Maye, as his “good tape” is “really good”, and the team that ultimately selects the former Tar Heel will base the decision on his good tape, dismissing the poor play.

 

4 - J.J. McCarthy, Michigan

 

The final decisions on J. J. McCarthy are simple for my source and based on predetermined opinions; if you like him, there’s enough good tape and next-level potential to take him early. If you don’t like McCarthy, there are enough questionable passes that will allow you to pass on him. He likes the toughness and intelligence McCarthy plays with as well as his leadership.

 

I expressed my concern about McCarthy’s arm strength for the next level and was told, “He’s made some really nice deep throws the past few seasons, not a lot, but enough to make believers out of those who want to draft him.

 

”According to my source, who knows the quarterback, McCarthy would tell highly rated players who took recruiting trips to Michigan, “If you want to go to college to party, sign elsewhere. But if you want to win a National Championship, this is the place for you.” Heady words for a younger kid, and a prediction that came true. He also believes the Michigan junior will need at least a half-season to develop before he’s NFL-ready.

 

So there you have it, from a trusted source. Looking back on our conversation and my notes, I agree with most of his opinions. I’ve stated all along that I believe Jayden Daniels will be the best signal caller to come out of the 2024 NFL Draft, and at the very least my source believes he’ll be the most successful in the early stages.

 

 

[shemp nixon]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I try to roll with where the information goes and don't kill the messenger if its not what i like. 😎. It just is what it is.  Not that Keim or whomever is always right.  But they have more inside sources than any of us do, so that's all I got. 

 

And I said for months (not that it's some rocket science statement) that I trust Keim more in the last week or 2 before the draft versus earlier in the draft.  His intel gets better as the draft comes recalling past drafts.

 

Now he's not saying this is McCarthy's to lose.  But that he's a serious candidate.  And that's somewhat a departure from him -- not that he at any point said no chance for McCarthy but he did say multiple times he doesn't think so.  Now he's saying keep him on your radar.  

 

He among others have said for eons that this FO plan to take the team visits very seriously.  Maybe something happened there that made McCarthy a stronger candidate.  I keep hearing he's a smart and super impressive person at a young age so maybe they were especially taken by his preperation or something in those meetings.  Their meeting wasn't just the golf event, they met with each one on one, too.

Something Newmark said at the presser last week caught my attention... He said he was kind of caught off guard by how magnetic one of the prospects was. At the time I figured he meant JJ or Drake.

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

If you wanted to sack big Ben you better bring your A game and if you were a DB, small LB most the time it did not happen. I would take him over Randall without much thought. Give me the tough QB not the fragile one.

Yep, missed games based on the fact that he took brutal hits in season, but his play never tailed off to the end and he made it through 17 seasons as a full time starter, missing only one largely complete season due to injury. Cunningham was a starter for 7 of his 16 seasons, and then either shared the gig or was a backup for the other 9, after the '91 injury, his career was never the same, he was still producing a couple more good to decent seasons ('92, and '94 and the God Mode '98), but after missing '91, and he was whatevs in '93, '95-'97 and in the final 3 of his career ('99-'01). Ben Roth grinded from his "yuck" rookie year being carried in '04 all the way through into the early 2020's only tailing off completely post injury in '20 (and still superficially decent stats even that season and '21). 

 

but it also doesn't matter. Daniels isn't Cunningham, period, and Maye isn't Ben Roth either, beyond size. I do wonder if the Daniels crew has some evidence to backup the theory that Daniels could improve his sturdiness, as they weren't that different coming in, same height, similar weight, but man, on the field Cunningham reminded me more of Richardson, or at least a bigger Lamar, but Richardson outweighed Cunningham by a good 30 lbs, so maybe my memory is deceiving me. I just didn't worry about Cunningham dying if he was hit, whereas I would if RGIII or Daniels was, hard enough. 

 

But again, I think we need to see Daniels do some things before he's Cunningham or anyone else, and lets be straight, I dont think we've seen anything remotely like a Cunningham since Cunningham. Even Lamar. Cunningham did what he did, in the NFC East, the toughest division in football, in the eighties and early nineties. Think about that, during the days of the second half of the redskins dynasty, and giants dynasty, and the rise from the ashes of a 2nd Cowboys Dynasty w/Aikman and friends.

During that era he lead epic comebacks to beat the Redskins in the famous '87 and '89 games, beat us in the notorious body bag game in '90, and split the '92 series before dominating us after we collapsed post Gibbs. Against the Giants after losing both games in '87 by a field goal, he'd sweep the series in '88, '89, split it in the giants Superbowl season in '90, sweep again in '92, before losing his final start against them in '94. Against the Cowboys, he won 8 in a row against the late White teams, and then the crappers, and even Aikman, before wrapping with a 2-2 record against them spread over the '92 through '98 cowboys teams. 

 

Think about that. Quite simply, in an NFL 10x as violent as the era of Ben Roth, RGIII and especially Lamar, Cunningham dueled the Giants, Cowboys and Redskins powerhouse teams of the eighties and nineties and played them heads up, quite freaking well.

 

For Jayden to do that? Well, the old carrying of a jock argument is hard to imagine. I just can't see it, and in fairness, Jayden won't have to, the world is much, much safer for QB's than it was for QB's back then, but not if they think they are running backs, and have all the safety instincts of Wile E Coyote. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, shemp nixon said:

Something Newmark said at the presser last week caught my attention... He said he was kind of caught off guard by how magnetic one of the prospects was. At the time I figured he meant JJ or Drake.

Good point I forgot about that it might be relevant 

[illone]

This is a really cool perspective from the PFF guys.

 

In the 2nd segment they basically retroactively apply the "Top Golf Alpha Test" to previous drafts to see if it's viable. In short, they conclude that Josh Harris and the Commanders are geniuses for cracking the code on QB evaluation😂

 

 

[Est.1974]

JJ at #2 would be a massive call. 

[Dah-Dee]

6 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

Something Newmark said at the presser last week caught my attention... He said he was kind of caught off guard by how magnetic one of the prospects was. At the time I figured he meant JJ or Drake.

 

I thought that was interesting too, but my first thought was, well, the word is kind of out on the personalities of Daniels, Maye and JJ, so maybe he means Penix, who has kind of flown under the radar. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Bro at this point I'm actually kinda rooting for you to win that bet. 

I don’t know that I’m rooting for it but I di t think it was a bad bet. 

[Est.1974]

16 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

Something Newmark said at the presser last week caught my attention... He said he was kind of caught off guard by how magnetic one of the prospects was. At the time I figured he meant JJ or Drake.

Just for clarity, I don’t think he did say that. It was a more generalised comment as to how some guys were more magnetic compared to others. It wasn’t a specific comment on ‘one’ prospect IMO

 

Edit - and he didn’t even reference QB, Newmark was talking about the wider group…

Edited April 21 by Est.1974

[Dah-Dee]

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/north_carolina_qb_drake_mayes_draft_stock_takes_another_interesting_turn/s1_13132_40256651

North Carolina QB Drake Maye's draft stock takes another interesting turn

By Zac Wassink  |  Last updated 4/21/24

 

As recently as earlier this week, NFL personnel and analysts seemed down on North Carolina Tar Heels quarterback Drake Maye compared to LSU Tigers signal-caller Jayden Daniels. 

However, ESPN draft analyst Matt Miller wrote in a piece published on Friday that "there are a lot of Drake Maye believers out there" ahead of the upcoming draft that gets underway next Thursday night. 

"In a call with an NFC North scout this week, we talked about the North Carolina quarterback's upside and physical traits," Miller explained. "This scout believes Maye is the 'clear-cut QB2 and not far behind QB1' in this class. The scout said, 'Maye's arm, mobility ... those are all things you can't coach, and then you add in that he's so raw. Teams think they can take him to the moon once he's developed.'"

Caleb Williams of the USC Trojans is widely viewed as QB1 in this year's draft class, so much so that it's seemingly a lock that the Chicago Bears will take Williams first overall. Interestingly, one anonymous AFC national scout suggested earlier this week that the Washington Commanders should take Maye over Daniels via the second selection and on Thursday night, Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk noted that DraftKings had given Maye and Daniels "identical odds to go second overall." 

 

That wasn't the case as of early Friday afternoon, with DraftKings Sportsbook listing Daniels as the betting favorite at -125 odds to be the draft's second overall pick. Maye was second on the list at +100 odds. DraftKings also had Maye as the betting favorite at +100 odds to be the third overall selection, with Daniels not far behind at +115. 

"That doesn't likely affect how early Maye goes, since everyone I've talked to believes he'll be no worse than the third pick in the draft as of now," Miller said about his chat with the NFC North scout. "But the talk over the past month that teams might not be as high on him as most people think is certainly not a consensus viewpoint." 

Edited April 21 by Dah-Dee

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Est.1974]

Honestly, if we aren’t sold on Maye, or Daniels even, a creative FO would trade out then back up. They’d find the trade partners IMO.

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

You must have some kind of alert set up. Once a Maye to elsewhere post happens, bing, you swoop to redress the balance. 

[bowhunter]

If they're seriously considering Johnny Jim, I would think Arizona might consider sending us OT DJ Humphries and their 2 firsts? Either JJ or Drake should still be there at 4

[illone]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Bro at this point I'm actually kinda rooting for you to win that bet. 

 

It's just a fun little prediction i made back in January, nothing major. My life won't be impacted one way or the other if I win or lose, just figured I'd put my money where my mouth is based on my early analysis a few days after the college season ended.

 

I dont bet heavily during the draft because there is no way to gain an edge on the sportsbook unless you have inside info or you are being presented with a viable option with crazy odds like this one.

 

It's still a longshot, but the true odds should be closer to 3-1 or maybe 4-1, not 26-1.