The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[SoCalSkins]

49 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Yeah, that 2019 pic of 175-pound freshman Daniels certainly seals the deal for folks like me who are already leaning Maye. Yessirreee. Let's completely write off his 2023 season but hey look at how skinny he was 5 years ago!

 

I'm just surprised at this point every similar post isn't that pic of 155-pound high schooler Daniels, or a screen shot of the vid showing 14-year-old Daniels. How long before one of the most ardent Daniels haters digs up a birthday pic of 60-pound 8-year-old Daniels as an argument against drafting him?

 

That’s fair. He filled in so much this year. For a second I thought he was Laron Landry. Look at these pictures. He’s such a imposing specimen! If he keeps this up in 5 years he might be able to find clothes outside of the boys section!

 

 

[dunfer]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That’s fair. He filled in so much this year. For a second I thought he was Laron Landry. Look at these pictures. He’s such a imposing specimen! If he keeps this up in 5 years he might be able to find clothes outside of the boys section!

 

 

[Commander20180]

7 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That’s fair. He filled in so much this year. For a second I thought he was Laron Landry. Look at these pictures. He’s such a imposing specimen! If he keeps this up in 5 years he might be able to find clothes outside of the boys section!

 

 

That doesn't look like an NFL QB to me.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Chase Daniel dissects Jayden Daniels focusing on his ability to process coverages and go through his progressions...

 

 

 

 

"He (Jayden) gets through progressions at a faster clip than I've seen anyone (in the draft) able to do."

@ aprx 5 min 4 sec

 

 

.

Edited April 17 by CommanderInTheRye

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, Commander20180 said:

That doesn't look like an NFL QB to me.

It’s like a before picture in a Captain America movie prior to when they inject him with serum.

 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

16 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That’s fair. He filled in so much this year. For a second I thought he was Laron Landry. Look at these pictures. He’s such a imposing specimen! If he keeps this up in 5 years he might be able to find clothes outside of the boys section!

 

 

Yeah hes skinny as **** there, no denying it. But then theres this pic from his pro day where he looks considerably thicker compared to those pics, at least to me

 

Edited April 17 by WashingtonRedWolves

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

But then theres this pic from his pro day where he looks considerably thicker compared to those pics, at least to me

 

When they pump 15 pounds of iv fluids into you, you tend to look thicker. You also refuse to run the 40. 
 

Dude will be 24 before this season ends and he’s a 5 year starter and his build looks the same from ASU to LSU. He is who he is physically. He’s not going to get bigger. That’s the reality of drafting him. You accept his size as part of the package. 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Did you have even an inkling of the beast you were going to unleash when you innocently created this thread three years ago? 🙂

God yes. I hate QB talk. Now it's in one place. It's not ever wrecking the Draft thread this year. I love this thread, but I stay the **** away from it.

[CommanderInTheRye]

I can't believe I'm posting this, but I just got the best insight I've seen so far on Kliff Kingsbury, and his likely plans for our offense, from of all people, a very sensible, sober,  and thoughtful, Johnny Manziel...

 

 

*Note: The specific Kliff Kingsbury talk begins around the 4 min 54 sec mark.)

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by CommanderInTheRye

[mudhog]

28 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Yeah hes skinny as **** there, no denying it. But then theres this pic from his pro day where he looks considerably thicker compared to those pics, at least to me

 

Honestly WRW, this pic makes me feel heaps better than what he looked like playing during the season. While he's not broad, he's thicker through his neck all the way down to his calves. I wouldn't dread him as a pick now.

[Dah-Dee]

46 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

a very sensible Johnny Manziel...

 

[TurningTheCorner]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

When they pump 15 pounds of iv fluids into you, you tend to look thicker. You also refuse to run the 40. 
 

Dude will be 24 before this season ends and he’s a 5 year starter and his build looks the same from ASU to LSU. He is who he is physically. He’s not going to get bigger. That’s the reality of drafting him. You accept his size as part of the package. 

15 pounds of fluid bulks up your quads and biceps?! Wow I need to start hitting the IV.

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Hooper said:

I love Maye as a prospect too, but it's crazy how many don't want to hear all the positives coming out about Daniels. Apparently next level when it comes to work-ethic and leadership, according to the people who have actually worked with him. "Committed to the game and one of the finest young men I have ever worked with" according to Scott Pioli. But on this thread, he's dismissed as an aloof diva.  

 

I don't think it's so much that nobody "wants" to hear all the positives about Daniels. It's that there are so many red flag. From his lack of 2nd level throws, lack of anticipation throws, how rarely he throws when pressured and moved off his spot, etc etc.

 

@Ghost ofhad a good post with a breakdown of some worrying analytics, some of which put him in a who's who of high level recent bust.

 

 

[PokerPacker]

39 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

15 pounds of fluid bulks up your quads and biceps?! Wow I need to start hitting the IV.

Get you a synthol bod.

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

*Note: The specific Kliff Kingsbury talk begins around the 4 min 58 sec mark.)

 

Agreeing w/ Manziel feels slimy and wrong. I may need a shower.

 

I do luv the coaching fit tho. Matching up JD w/ the guy who ran Kyler and the guy who ran Hurts is just about the best foot forward you could reasonably get for a dual threat QB. There are not a lot of specific offensive coaches I would prefer to pair him with when it comes to just him.

[Est.1974]

Got to be honest, I’m a fan of this whole draft visit format. We know what the players have talent wise, this is taking the edge off a fairly long drawn out process for the prospects. 

[mistertim]

Kurt Benkert has been in the tank for Daniels from day one. If you watch his film breakdown of Daniels he goes out of his way to blame everything and everyone but him for the most part. It was the scheme, it was bad routes (nevermind the fact that he had two ultra elite WRs), it was bad OL play, etc etc. Even when Daniels just blatantly panic tossed an underthrown deep ball into double coverage that should easily have been intercepted, Benkert somehow, with a straight face, said he had no problem with the throw and blamed the WR.

 

And Johnny Manziel is.........well, he's Johnny Manziel.     I'm actually shocked that he wasn't drunk in that video.

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, Commander20180 said:

That doesn't look like an NFL QB to me.

I get the concern, but years ago the Cowboys got in trouble for picking guys who looked good in their underwear and not by the game tape.   It's not like Daniels has a big injury history so I'm going with the guy who looks special on the tape.  .  

Edited April 17 by Darrell Green Fan

[CommanderInTheRye]

I’m in the parking lot at my gym about to do some hill intervals followed by an lsd (long slow day) workout on the treadmill and as I was setting up the motivational videos I’m gonna watch while power walking I ran across this new baby.

 

Haven’t watched a second of it, but I think I heard or read someone saying it’s a good video.

 

If it’s a waste of your time stop watching and downvote or cuss out my lazy old ass for being so inconsiderate— I’ll take it like a man, but if you get something out of it, please share the love if it isn’t too much trouble.

 

 

 

 

Anyways…

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was watching an ESPN special on the QBs last night.

 

Jordan Reid who has been praised by some posting on the draft thread in the past probably woudn't be anymore if they watched that segment -- he was the only panelist in the group who liked Maye over Daniels but he also thought it was splitting hairs and it was a close call which I know to some here its an idiotic group think take.   But I've followed Reid over the years, pretty thoughtful guy and is no group think type. 

 

In that segment they mentioned Daniels averaging over 13 yards per carry on scrambles, that's insane.  But it matches what I watched and talked about on the weekend -- he is lethal on scrambles but not on designed runs.  I see what some said about his sack to pressure ratio, some of that is about getting stonewalled on designed runs.  That's true.  I don't know what to make of it positive or negative.  But as I mentioned in my write up last weekend it was eerie how defenses seemed cued up to LSU's designed run plays.

 

I'll give Kiper this.  Even though he switched months ago from Maye to Daniels.  He highlighted like i did that Maye's issues centered on specific games not the whole season.  I mentioned 3 games.  He said 4.   I guess the 4th game to him was Syracuse.  OK fine, 4 bad games.  In three of them I agree he was as bad as Chris Simms and some others say he is.  In those games, they nailed his flaws but they were specific to those games just those games.  But what about the other 8?  He was fantastic.  

 

Schefter was on it, he thinks Daniels goes #2, but he wasn't 100% sure.  But he also said Maye has emerged from what he's heard around the league as the clear #3 over McCarthy.

 

 

14 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

I’m in the parking lot at my gym about to do some hill intervals followed by an lsd (long slow day) workout on the treadmill and as I was setting up the motivational videos I’m gonna watch while power walking I ran across this new baby.

 

Haven’t watched a second of it, but I think I heard or read someone saying it’s a good video.

 

If it’s a waste of your time stop watching and downvote or cuss out my lazy old ass for being so inconsiderate— I’ll take it like a man, but if you get something out of it, please share the love if it isn’t too much trouble.

 

 

 

 

Anyways…

 

 

 

 

 

 

I watched Jay's video on Daniels, early this morning when I couldn't sleep.  Not bad, balanced it wasn't just about positives but the whole drill.

 

I know @Voice_of_Reason believes we here will forget more about football than Jay will ever know.  But even on @Voice_of_Reason terms, Jay's not bad winging it as a layman.  

 

As far as Jay's negatives on Daniels, I agree with one in particular, he's not good at throwing off his backfoot, he needs to step into his throws.  

Edited April 17 by Skinsinparadise

[Tress Is The Way]

6 hours ago, TurningTheCorner said:

15 pounds of fluid bulks up your quads and biceps?! Wow I need to start hitting the IV.

That was most definitely pro day bulk up. Here he is walking through dulles yesterday. Definitely doesn't have that bulk anymore.

 

https://twitter.com/JPFinlayNBCS/status/1780365094574075979?s=19

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted the 3 scouts that McGinn interviewed -- 2 out of the three were very high on both Maye and Daniels.  Giving me the vibe that scouts might be mixed on both.  Coaches like Daniels.  Scouts mixed.  This doubles down on that some.  One scout here likes Maye better the other liked Daniels if you read through the picks.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39954330/2024-nfl-draft-mock-scouts-top-10-predictions-picks

 

2024 NFL mock draft: Scouts predict the top 10 picks

• 
  Matt Miller, NFL draft analystApr 17, 2024, 07:00 AM ET

 

You're going to see a lot of mock drafts over the next week, as everyone gears up for the 2024 NFL draft. My final set of projections drops next Wednesday. But did you know NFL teams do their own mocks, assigning staffers to rival teams in Round 1 and trying to project what could happen at each slot in preparation? That gave us an idea.

I asked 10 anonymous scouts from around the league to each serve as the decision-maker for a team picking in the top 10, letting them make the pick based on that roster's needs and how they evaluate this intriguing class. A couple of rules:

• The scouts are unaffiliated with the teams they were assigned here. In fact, none work for a franchise even in the same division as the one they were assigned, and in most cases, we gave them a team from the other conference. They were asked make their selections based on how they'd approach that pick and who was already off the board.

• Because the scouts are all anonymous and did not collaborate on the exercise, we didn't allow any trades. So while many mock drafts might have the Vikings jumping up the board for a QB, no picks changed hands here.

Here is how things played out in the top 10, starting with an evaluator from the NFC East making the call for the Bears at No. 1 overall:

 

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)

 

Projected pick from an NFC East area scout: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

 

No surprises here -- scouts agree with consensus that the Bears should and ultimately will select Williams, my No. 1 overall prospect in this class, to begin the draft.

"He's too dynamic, too poised and too talented to pass up," said our guest picker out of the NFC East, a scout who has studied the entire QB class.

Williams seems like a lock at No. 1 after throwing 93 touchdown passes and rushing for 27 more scores over three college seasons. The 2023 Heisman Trophy is the total package, and I like to compare him to Aaron Rodgers. At 6-foot-1 and 214 pounds, Williams shows excellent arm strength, running ability and field vision. He'd immediately have a great supporting cast with DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and Cole Kmet, too.

"Caleb is the most likely player in this class to become a Hall of Famer," the scout said. "That's the dude I want."

---

2. Washington Commanders

Projected pick from an AFC national scout: Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Here's the first surprise of the mini-mock, with our scout assigned to the No. 2 pick opting for Maye over LSU's Jayden Daniels. Maye is No. 9 on my board, while Daniels is No. 5 overall.

"Maye has more upside," said the scout. "I question Daniels' ability to play in condensed spaces."

Another consideration for the scout making the pick? Maye's ability to make throws with pressure in his face and absorb the impact of free pass-rushers in the North Carolina passing game. He threw 10 touchdown passes (tied for seventh in the nation) when pressured in 2023. Maye (6-foot-4, 223 pounds) is often compared to Justin Herbert, and his vertical passing ability would no doubt fit well with wide receivers Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson in Washington.

---

3. New England Patriots

Projected pick from an NFC South area scout: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

With two quarterbacks off the board, the decision was easy for our stand-in Pats GM: "The other guys really left me without a choice, but this is who we wanted outside of Caleb [Williams] anyway."

Daniels (6-foot-4, 210 pounds) is coming off a Heisman Trophy-winning season that saw him throw 40 passing touchdowns and run for 10. He completed 72.2% of his passes and led the nation in QBR at 95.6. And his deep-ball passing and rushing ability are special traits.

"We're sprinting to the podium with this pick," the scout said. "He's a true playmaker and can beat you with his arm and his legs."

Edited April 17 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK fine, 4 bad games. 

 

It's obviously hard to weigh the bad games vs. good - whose most to blame etc. It's also why evaluating QB's is so difficult. The Daniels game against Florida State was bad and that did affect my opinion on him. What's amusing to me is that every time I watch an LSU game to watch Daniel's play, I come away in awe on just how damn good Nabers really is. I never imagined I would take Nabers over Marvin if the choice were mine but I find myself waffling more than ever over it. 

[DogofWar1]

19 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

That was most definitely pro day bulk up. Here he is walking through dulles yesterday. Definitely doesn't have that bulk anymore.

 

https://twitter.com/JPFinlayNBCS/status/1780365094574075979?s=19

 

I tells ya, hide the scale underneath something and have him stand on it.  It's simple due diligence.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

It's obviously hard to weigh the bad games vs. good - whose most to blame etc. It's also why evaluating QB's is so difficult. The Daniels game against Florida State was bad and that did affect my opinion on him. What's amusing to me is that every time I watch an LSU game to watch Daniel's play, I come away in awe on just how damn good Nabers really is. I never imagined I would take Nabers over Marvin if the choice were mine but I find myself waffling more than ever over it. 

 

I think all three of the big WRs:  Nabers, Harrison, Odunze are uber special

 

IMO FSU was the only bad game from Daniels.  I rewatched every throw from Daniels and Maye this weekend.  I've watched all the full games that were available before that.  But watching them all in sequence was interesting.  Daniels was on somewhat of an upward tracjectory as the season progressed.  Maye was a more bumpy ride, started hot, cooled off a little mid season, got hot again, and his last 2 games were his worst. But a lot more good than bad.  A lot more.

 

I trust my eyes with QBs on basically three things.   Running because I have some background in that.  Decision making and accuracy -- because I am not bad at diciphering that in previous QBs.  All the rest is really hard for me albiet I try.  I find arm talent is much easier to see in person -- in camp than on screen.

 

But at least on those variables Maye and Daniels easily pass my eye test.  Slam dunk.

 

Watching some of Maye's bad games in sequence actually reassured me some ironically about him.  Look if for exampe I judged Maye purely on the Clemson, North Carolina State and Hurricanes game he's exactly who Chris Simms says he is.  A project.  He made some wicked throws in that game.  But he also drifted into pressure.  His accuracy especially in the flat was bad and even some of his completions were off -- WRs had to adjust to his throws, etc.  All of that is true.  But....all QBs have bad games.  And it makes me think that some of Maye's loudest critics have not watched the full body of his work but are defining him at his worst.

 

I like Daniels more than the typical poster here.  My take on him is closer to the real world outside of this thread take.  He was uber consistent.  His decision making and accuracy was good.  His running is electric.  I like his intangibles including his work ethic.  I agree with those who say he likely keeps getting better.

 

But I like Maye better because he has a better arm, layers his throws better, and has the size to play in the NFL.  To me Daniels is more risky.  But I do agree with the consensus outside of this thread that we are lucky to be in position to take either one.

Edited April 17 by Skinsinparadise