The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note listened to Chris Simms yesterday talk about Maye's proday.  That dude is likely going to either be hailed as a genius about Maye or a fool because man that dude doesn't play it in the middle.

 

I know there are some others like Warner, Berkert, some mock drafters who are somewhat down about Maye.  But Simms takes it up a few pegs.

 

Simms was trashing his proday, doubling down how he's the 6th best QB in this draft class.  

 

IMO Simms isn't a football analyst now, he's basically an internet sports shock jock. Every year he comes out with some off the wall extreme take on one major prospect or another, and I think it's purely for clicks. He's mostly just an entertainer who needs people to keep watching and listening to him.

[veteranskinsfan]

Just read the Jason LaConfora article in Wash Post from yesterday.   He mentions how Josh McCown the new Vikings quarterback coach did coach Maye in high school.  I wonder if the Vikings have called Peters to see if they can make a trade for them to get Maye?  Also if Harbaugh really believes McCarthy is the best quarterback in the draft then he would be willing to trade Herbert.  If by some wild chance Washington picks McCarthy it could mean they are planning to trade him to the Chargers for Herbert.  Right now though I think Harbaugh keeps Herbert and just wants to pump up McCarthy so he gets drafted in the first round.  Cannot wait to see how this draft turns out.  I would like to see Peters get the quarterback we want and then trade up to get Marvin Harrison in a trade deal.    If that is not possible then go for a left tackle to protect the new quarterback.

Edited April 4 by veteranskinsfan
line spacing

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Schefter loudly said the commanders might jump in on Kirk.

 

He says what he gets paid to say. 

 

You can pick apart anyone though for not being 100%.  But the idea that Schefter is often wrong is an impossible point to make.   Ditto Keim.  Ditto Breer.

 

Look, I'd love to think that you got a better beat on things then these reporters.    But I can recall some of your takes and you are as hit and miss as anyone here.  

 

But if you start nailing how things are going to go as to rumors and the team, etc -- I'll swear by you as much as I do Keim.

 

I get that you think Daniels agent is manipulating the process.  But the idea that you think the coaches with no stakes in the process, many of them are manipulating Keim -- comes off to me that you got no nuance on the topic and are reacting purely emotionally or you think Keim is a moron and I suspect you don't think Keim is that level dumb.

 

Look I want it to be Maye too.  I find the Daniels stuff a little annoying.  I find some (not all) of those who pushed Daniels annoying.    I get the emotion of it.  I feel it too.  But I try to remove emotion from the draft as to rumors.  Am more interested in what I think THEY will do versus what I want them to do.

 

But speaking to emotion.  I wouldn't panic yet.  Like I said being a bit of a draft junkie forever.  I don't take rumors-leaks ultimately too seriously relating to THIS team unless both things are in play at the same time.

 

A.  Keim gives it some validity

B.  It's 2 week or less before the draft

 

We aren't at that 2 week juncture yet. 

 

 

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just read the Jason LaConfora article in Wash Post from yesterday.   He mentions how Josh McCown the new Vikings quarterback coach did coach Maye in high school.  I wonder if the Vikings have called Peters to see if they can make a trade for them to get Maye?  Also if Harbaugh really believes McCarthy is the best quarterback in the draft then he would be willing to trade Herbert.  If by some wild chance Washington picks McCarthy it could mean they are planning to trade him to the Chargers for Herbert.  Right now though I think Harbaugh keeps Herbert and just wants to pump up McCarthy so he gets drafted in the first round.  Cannot wait to see how this draft turns out.  I would like to see Peters get the quarterback we want and then trade up to get Marvin Harrison in a trade deal.    If that is not possible then go for a left tackle to protect the new quarterback.

 

Harbaugh doesn't have the power to unilaterally trade Herbert and there's no way the Chargers ownership/FO would allow it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just read the Jason LaConfora article in Wash Post

Is “the Sourcerer” aka LieConfora back at the post?  That would be unfortunate.  They finally had turned a corner with Nicki J. And that young kid I like.  
 

Going back to that scumbag would be disappointing.  

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I would like to see Peters get the quarterback we want and then trade up to get Marvin Harrison in a trade deal. 

 

Whoa

If your gonna dream, dream big I guess...

 

[Panninho]

Honestly, the more I digest, the less I understand how any team could take JD over Maye. There are just so many red flags:

 

• Historically bad pressure to sack ratio: A stat that is probably the most stable stat between college and NFL. I don't know a single player who has overcome this at the next level. His numbers are pretty much on par with Tyrod Taylor - a guy who takes a sack every 10 snaps in the league. It doesn't mean that he cannot still be a decent overall player but there is no reason to believe that this issue is going to go away at the next level. Maye's stats here also aren't great (like e.g. Penix) but he is still at an acceptable level.
• Breakout Age. It took JD 4 years in college to have a season like he had last season. Granted, that was a great season and he wasn't particularly bad in the other seasons. It's just that he was at best a day 2 guy coming into his senior year. How much room is there to grow? Maye broke out his sophomore year and was the designated 1/2 pick both his starting seasons in college.
• Support cast: He had by far the best support cast in all of college football. He has two WRs who have a great chance to both go in the top-15. So both might get picked higher than Chase and Jefferson did respectively (in a class that is loaded with WR talent). His O-line was regarded as a top10 O-line by PFF going into the season. PFF now ranks his two OTs as 1st and 8th among all returning OTs in the country and says both have a chance to be first round picks next year. His support cast was so good, that Garrett Nussmeier came in and threw for 400y and 3 TDs against Wisconsin in the Bowl game. Brian Thomas didn't miss a beat and went off for 100 and 2 TDs in that game. Is this the reason he went off that past season? Maye's supporting cast sucked. Everyone agrees. His team got demolished without him against West Virigina in the bowl game. There might be 3 guys on that roster who get drafted.
• He is tiny. Yes, he weighed in at 210 lbs but I don't think anyone believes that he can sustain that weight once the season starts. QBs under 210lbs have a horrible track record in the league. Just last year Bryce Young got drafted and this guy looks ridiculous on an NFL field. He is a lot shorter obviously but his BMI is still 4 points higher than JD's. They weigh almost the same and Young actually got weighed during the combine and not a month later. No size concerns with Maye.
• He did not get measured at the combine. He did not test athletically at all (imo big for a guy whose primary edge many people see in the run game). Maye got measured at the combine - why wouldn't you if you have no concerns? He also did not test athletically but for him, it's not the biggest selling point. I still wish he would have done that. But overall it's a bigger knock on JD than on Maye because everyone wanted to know how fast JD was at 210lbs.
• There is all that Arizona stuff, that I don't want to hold against him because I don't really know what happened in that program. But it is at least worth mentioning.

 

All of this is pretty concerning before you even get to the tape. And I admit, that I do not know enough to go into the details on the tape (a thing where even the most experienced personnel guys in the league struggle). As far as I understand it, draft media seems to think that right now he is more polished than Maye and might have a higher floor. But I am not drafting for floor at #2 and I would also have to weigh in the college experience when it comes to how clean the mechanics are.

 

There are no perfect prospects but these are a lot of concerns that just speak against JD. Now, there are obviously also things that speak against Maye but to me they aren't as fundamental. To me, the odds are pretty much stacked against JD from the start. Factor in that even the harshest Maye critics seem to agree that Maye has the higher ceiling, I am not sure how you gamble on JD over Mayer (and it is always a gamble when you take a QB). And for all I know, JD could end up being the best of all the QBs. But I think if you want to maximize your chances of hitting big on your pick, it's not your smart choice.

 

I would not be surprised at all if it actually is Daniels who slides a bit on draft day. I still think he has great potential and if we actually end up drafting him, then the world will not end. Like I said, overall I don't know enough to understand all the intricacies of scouting and projecting QBs but my excitement for the pick would not be super high because of all the risk involved.

 

33 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just read the Jason LaConfora article in Wash Post from yesterday.   He mentions how Josh McCown the new Vikings quarterback coach did coach Maye in high school.  I wonder if the Vikings have called Peters to see if they can make a trade for them to get Maye?  Also if Harbaugh really believes McCarthy is the best quarterback in the draft then he would be willing to trade Herbert.  If by some wild chance Washington picks McCarthy it could mean they are planning to trade him to the Chargers for Herbert.  Right now though I think Harbaugh keeps Herbert and just wants to pump up McCarthy so he gets drafted in the first round.  Cannot wait to see how this draft turns out.  I would like to see Peters get the quarterback we want and then trade up to get Marvin Harrison in a trade deal.    If that is not possible then go for a left tackle to protect the new quarterback.

 

The Chargers basically cannot trade Herbert. The dead cap would be huge and negate the benefits of a rookie QB contract. And that would be the only reason why anyone would even entertain such an idea because the chance that JJ ends up as good as Herbert are miniscule. Also Herbert has a no-trade clause.

Harbaugh is hyping up JJ because he wants his players to get drafted and because he wants someone to trade up to #4, so that he can take their highest graded non-QB on the draft board (likely MHJ).

Edited April 4 by Panninho

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

IMO Simms isn't a football analyst now, he's basically an internet sports shock jock. Every year he comes out with some off the wall extreme take on one major prospect or another, and I think it's purely for clicks. He's mostly just an entertainer who needs people to keep watching and listening to him.

 

Yep and he's like that on other positions too.  I was just a bit surprised he doubled down on it that hard.  Came off really harsh. 

 

I was watching the QB school guy last night too, he's also a Daniels > Maye guy and didn't come off that sold on Maye.  But still, he talked about Maye's upside and thought some of his issues could be fixed.  

 

But what i appreciated about the QB school guy, O'Sullivan, who if I recall was a backup QB in the league, he had some humility about his takes.  He talked about getting some wrong in the past.  And he admitted he has some bias towards Daniels because he knows him some and believes in his makeup.

 

One point that he made which I appreciated because I've argued the same point over the years with others which is these QBs don't all have the same work ethic.  Far from it.  And a needle mover as to fixing anything (and he talked about this is the context of Maye fixing his mechanics) is are they willing to put in the time.  Some he says do it.  Many he believes don't. 

 

But overall he had a lot of humility.  Simms to me comes off like his points are fact.  He used to come off humble to me at times but no more.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep and he's like that on other positions too.  I was just a bit surprised he doubled down on it that hard.  

 

I was watching the QB school guy last night too, he's also a Daniels > Maye guy and didn't come off that sold on Maye.  But still, he talked about Maye's upside and thought some of his issues could be fixed.  

 

But what i appreciated about the QB school guy, O'Sullivan, who if I recall was a backup QB in the league, he had some humility about his takes.  He talked about getting some wrong in the past.  And he admitted he has some bias towards Daniels because he knows him some and believes in his makeup.

 

One point that he made which I appreciated because I've argued the same point over the years with others which is these QBs don't all have the same work ethic.  Far from it.  And a needle mover as to fixing anything (and he talked about this is the context of Maye fixing his mechanics) is are they willing to put in the time.  Some he says do it.  Many he believes don't. 

 

But overall he had a lot of humility.  Simms to me comes off like his points are fact.  He used to come off humble to me at times but no more.

 

 

 

I'm actually not all that surprised that O'Sullivan is higher on JD than Maye. I've watched many of his videos over the years and he is very into proper and consistent footwork and mechanics. On one hand it's cool because I've learned a lot more about how important footwork can be and how the upper and lower body connect, etc. On the other hand, IMO sometimes focusing so much on that can make him a little myopic to other traits.

 

He'll definitely point out big time traits that guys have and like them (arm, ability to scramble, off platform throws) but I think at the end of the day he still really gives a lot more weight to the whole footwork thing than most other aspects. And right now JD has cleaner and more consistent footwork so him giving JD the edge makes sense for the lens he tends to look through.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I'm actually not all that surprised that O'Sullivan is higher on JD than Maye. I've watched many of his videos over the years and he is very into proper and consistent footwork and mechanics. On one hand it's cool because I've learned a lot more about how important footwork can be and how the upper and lower body connect, etc. On the other hand, IMO sometimes focusing so much on that can make him a little myopic to other traits.

 

He'll definitely point out big time traits that guys have and like them (arm, ability to scramble, off platform throws) but I think at the end of the day he still really gives a lot more weight to the whole footwork thing than most other aspects. And right now JD has cleaner and more consistent footwork so him giving JD the edge makes sense for the lens he tends to look through.

 

Yeah he was talking about his mechanics are consistent from throw to throw.  He also met him at some QB camp or something like that and was impressed with his makeup and how coachable he was and eager to learn.

 

He had some concerns about how little he threw on the 2nd level.  And didn't think he had a big time fastball as to his arm.  But otherwise he was very high on him. He thought slam dunk top 3 pick.

 

He was OK with Maye but had concerns about his consistency as to his machanics.  It changed too much for him from throw to throw and at times he had a hitch that slowed his delivery.  He liked the size and wow plays.  He came off like Maye was the bigger wildcard.  But he also said that if he committs to the task he felt that he can fix his mechanics -- he didn't say that was slam dunk but was optimisitic.

 

But overall I was impressed with his humility.  He made the point that its hard to translate college QBs to the pros and he's gotten some wrong.  And projecting that this or that will translate to the pros isn't easy.  

 

Simms on the other hand comes off so sure of himself, surprised he's not making billions doing draft evaluations for teams.  

[Bantu]

9 hours ago, TheBigJourney said:

You’re coping hard right now

Yeah, he simply was speaking about who he "thinks" Commies are taking and made no mention of sources telling him anything about this team, specifically. Not much to see here or get worked up about.

[Going Commando]

I thought JT said that Jayden was a counselor at one of the camps that JT ran.  He seemed to know Jayden fairly well.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Unless Peters has all of a sudden started talking to people and telling them what he thinks, nobody knows anything. The dot connecting could be massively pushed by the agent community or other teams putting out self-serving misinformation. 

 

I am going to maintain I think it’s lying season.  
 

My guess all along has been Maye.  I’m not going to change that.  But I’ve also said all along it’s just a guess based on the type of QB Quinn/Kliff/Peters have had success with, and the type of QB which best fits the ability to push the ball down the middle of the field.  
 

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong because they see the dual threat nature of Daniels as a bigger weapon than elite arm talent.  I hope they’re right.  
 

I’d be thrilled with both.

 

I want the media to be wrong.  More than me being right or wrong, I want the media to be wrong.  🤪 because I despise the 

 

 

I am going to maintain I think it’s lying season.  

 

Yes!

 

 

Don't take the cheese boys, don't take the frigin' cheese...no matter how tasty and delectable it may seem at first glance, don't take the cheese.

 

Stories are gonna come out from all angles over the next 3 weeks-- some of them you're going to easily dismiss, but some of them you're going to want to believe because they'll confirm what you want to happen-- and they count on us doing that.

 

Don't fall for it. Don't  take the damn cheese..

 

 

 

 

 

Its all just calculated disinformation.

 

Now, it's not targeted at us fans specifically. In the biznes, we're what you call-- an acceptable level of collateral damage.

 

Remember, the primary goal of EVERY GOOD GM right now, is to cause confusion, uncertainty, and hesitation, as to their real intentions on draft day, in the minds of the other 31 teams.

 

And quite frankly, AP, DQ, KK and the rest of our crew is doing a masterful job of hiding our true intentions right now.

 

Think about this...

 

Over the last fortnight there have been "credible" reports in the media at different times that we were  specifically targeting Maye, or Daniels, or McCarthy, and at one point we were supposedly eying a trade back though that angle has been abandoned recently.

 

That, my friends, is a brilliantly executed disinformation campaign! Only expect it to get better and mire believeable going forward. The media will be used to hide the truth.

 

Well the media wouldn't knowingly push a false agenda, you say, indignantly!

 

And I respond that for every sports reporter with integrity like John Keim there's a dozen more that just want the clicks and traffic to keep their job abd pay the light bill.

 

Don't  take the cheese...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4 by CommanderInTheRye

[RandyHolt]

stollen off HF

 

Kurt Warner:

“I know many of you LOVE college football, but as I start to dive into these college QBs, it’s hard for me to even watch,” he said. “very few play on schedule, the pass concepts are a mess most of the time, they run the same play over and over, a million bubble screens, can’t find many concepts that translate to [the] next level.”

 

Expect failure if any OC forces a QB to digest 800 page playbooks with no plays from their college. And maybe even 200. Who knows.

 

I am convinced agents pay clown show so called pundits like Simms to pump up their players.

Edited April 4 by RandyHolt

[jg77]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note listened to Chris Simms yesterday talk about Maye's proday.  That dude is likely going to either be hailed as a genius about Maye or a fool because man that dude doesn't play it in the middle.

 

I know there are some others like Warner, Berkert, some mock drafters who are somewhat down about Maye.  But Simms takes it up a few pegs.

 

Simms was trashing his proday, doubling down how he's the 6th best QB in this draft class.  

 

Add Greg Cosell to that list as well. He has Jayden over Maye.

 

He said Maye is a drifter in the pocket and causes the OL to look bad when it's really not their fault. He said it's a real concern. Yeah he has the tools but he has a lot of work to do.

 

Everything points to taking Daniels and it's the right decision.

Edited April 4 by jg77

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, jg77 said:

Add Greg Cosell to that list as well. He has Jayden over Maye.

 

He said Maye is a drifter in the pocket and causes the OL to look bad when it's really not their fault. He said it's a real concern. Yeah he has the tools but he has a lot of work to do.

 

Everything points to taking Daniels and it's the right decision.

 

By "everything" you mean "Some people with no direct knowledge making guesses based on their own opinions"

 

Interesting how many big Daniels supporters are so incredibly new to this forum.

Edited April 4 by mistertim

[JamesMadisonSkins]

With all of these dueling narratives, I wonder if our front office truly hones in on a guy they love above the rest, and thus justify taking them at #2. Leaves the door open for trading back. If they don't have "a guy" ... we'll see ...

 

And if the room is split on who the best QB is ... maybe AP thinks it's Maye, but Kingsbury and Quinn think its Daniels. What if AP is close enough on the fence to see both sides. Compromise could be to trade with NE and take whoever they pass on. And maybe they all agree on Penix having some good upside but not someone worth considering at #2, they'd be open to going back to #11 with Minnesota. 

 

I have a hard time thinking this group has a consensus that they'd take at #2 and that alone might open the door to trading back. Of course, the silence out of our camp is great, but if the national narrative can't settle on one of these guys, I have a hard time thinking our FO is in lockstep. I know AP has the final decision, but if he is somewhat on the fence and others are too, then the door for trading back to at least #3 is wide open. Whether they would consider going further back could depend on whether they have a true Top 3 or if someone like McCarthy or Penix are high enough on their board that they'd consider moving back. 

Edited April 4 by JamesMadisonSkins

[jg77]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

By "everything" you mean "Some people with no direct knowledge making guesses based on their own opinions"

 

Interesting how many big Daniels supporters are so incredibly new to this forum.

 

No, I mean Kingsbury as the OC. Signing Mariota as the primary backup. I thought those two things made it clearly obvious who they're selecting.

Edited April 4 by jg77

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

No, I mean Kingsbury as the OC. Signing Mariota as the primary backup. I thought those two things made it clearly obvious who they're selecting.

 

Neither of those mean anything. KK could easily run his system with any of the top 3 QBs in this class as they're all mobile. Ditto with Mariota, though I think in the NFL he's been much more like Maye than he has Daniels.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just read the Jason LaConfora article in Wash Post from yesterday.   He mentions how Josh McCown the new Vikings quarterback coach did coach Maye in high school.  I wonder if the Vikings have called Peters to see if they can make a trade for them to get Maye?  Also if Harbaugh really believes McCarthy is the best quarterback in the draft then he would be willing to trade Herbert.  If by some wild chance Washington picks McCarthy it could mean they are planning to trade him to the Chargers for Herbert.  Right now though I think Harbaugh keeps Herbert and just wants to pump up McCarthy so he gets drafted in the first round.  Cannot wait to see how this draft turns out.  I would like to see Peters get the quarterback we want and then trade up to get Marvin Harrison in a trade deal.    If that is not possible then go for a left tackle to protect the new quarterback.

lolol good grief not these takes again

7 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

No, I mean Kingsbury as the OC. Signing Mariota as the primary backup. I thought those two things made it clearly obvious who they're selecting.

Mariota is closer to playstyle than Maye. Also, we wanted Darnold before we signed Mariota.

 

No team drafts their franchise QB based on the best possible backup QB they could find. That's just absurd.

[Jumbo]

10 hours ago, TheBigJourney said:

You’re coping hard right now

 

9 hours ago, TheBigJourney said:

Schefter is the law. He said they’re taking Daniels. Cry harder.

 

 

I've warned you before about trolling. The quoted  posts are basically just to agitate another member. Take a time out 

 

If you choose to return, make sure you leave this level of "participation" behind you and don't violate any other rules.

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

With all of these dueling narratives, I wonder if our front office truly hones in on a guy they love above the rest, and thus justify taking them at #2. Leaves the door open for trading back. If they don't have "a guy" ... we'll see ...

 

And if the room is split on who the best QB is ... maybe AP thinks it's Maye, but Kingsbury and Quinn think its Daniels. What if AP is close enough on the fence to see both sides. Compromise could be to trade with NE and take whoever they pass on. And maybe they all agree on Penix having some good upside but not someone worth considering at #2, they'd be open to going back to #11 with Minnesota. 

 

I have a hard time thinking this group has a consensus that they'd take at #2 and that alone might open the door to trading back. Of course, the silence out of our camp is great, but if the national narrative can't settle on one of these guys, I have a hard time thinking our FO is in lockstep. I know AP has the final decision, but if he is somewhat on the fence and others are too, then the door for trading back to at least #3 is wide open. Whether they would consider going further back could depend on whether they have a true Top 3 or if someone like McCarthy or Penix are high enough on their board that they'd consider moving back. 

I think AP and Quinn both love Maye. Kk probably also likes Maye because his best year(2022) came under Longo who is a KK disciple.

[jg77]

Mariota's play style is nothing like Maye's imo. And also Maye needs to sit a year. He has a lot to work on. If he doesn't sit then he'll most likely be Blake Bortles 2.0

 

NFL defenders are going to feast on his slow delivery.

 

 

[Tress Is The Way]

The more I watch the tape on JD5 the more I see him as... Trey Lance, but leaner. The pressure to sack ratio is just a huge stat and that is probably my biggest red flag for the kid.

[CommanderInTheRye]

19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

And if the room is split on who the best QB is ... maybe AP thinks it's Maye, but Kingsbury and Quinn think its Daniels

 

I actually think there well might be a split.

 

If so, I would guess that AP really likes Maye and yes, possibly McCarthy most.

 

I would guess that Quinn, the defensive guru, who is on the record as saying that running qbs that can pass to all levels are an absolute nightmare to plan for and defend, is possibly leaning towards Daniels.

 

As for Kingsbury, I could see reasons why he might like Maye, Daniels, or even JJ. He could well be the swing vote, if it comes down to a democratic decision.

 

I would love to be in the room when they get together to decide their true target, if they haven't already done it.

 

 

Edited April 4 by CommanderInTheRye