The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

17 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

You sort of have to be good throwing the football for starters. 

 

I am not high on McCarthy - I dont think he has the ceiling of Maye or Daniels. I'm not sure I would take him first round period (but I am an outlier on that I suspect). But lets keep this serious, he absolutely has an NFL arm and throws a good ball.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

I am not high on McCarthy - I dont think he has the ceiling of Maye or Daniels. I'm not sure I would take him first round period (but I am an outlier on that I suspect). But lets keep this serious, he absolutely has an NFL arm and throws a good ball.

This is fair. And I can understand why you wouldn’t take him in the first. I would. But I see the reasons people would be hesitant.

 

(I don’t think we will, for the record. I think it’s Maye or Daniels and it’s not even a question for the same reason you list).

 

But thank you for evaluating honestly.

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, BMagic said:

 

I can see where you're coming from for sure. When the 49ers scored the FG in OT, I knew they loss right then and there because Mahomes is that guy. I actually figured the Chiefs would repeat before the season started because I see Mahomes as being that transcendly great.

 

Not trying to make excuses for Allen, but we may look at his career differently if it weren't for 13 seconds and Mahomes/Kelce/Hill. Then, they were cooked with the Hamlin situation the year they played Burrow. No excuse for Mahomes coming to his house and getting it done this past season though, that's going to haunt Allen for a while. Wide-right is Buffalo's version of the yips.

 

Maye could have that dog in him that we haven't seen yet since the team surrounding him wasn't quite up to par. Growing up in a house with four older brothers (all athletes at that) meant he had to scrap to earn his keep and their respect. That type of environment can groom a person to be extremely competitive. Nothing was handed to him in that house. Turned down Saban and Alabama and kept his family ties to UNC. He had to know he wouldn't have been surrounded by as much talent and still decided to take on that challenge. The opposing viewpoint could be he ducked the pressure of playing at Alabama.

 

The worrisome thing is all Butch Davis QBs seem to enter the league with bad habits.

Flip side of Maye going to Alabama versus J.J.'s route to college is the opposite. He won a state H.S. Championship, transferred to one of the elite high schools in the country playing the best and won a Nat. High school championship, He went to Mich because Ohio ST. lied to his face to get revenge and got it. At 20 years old he led Mich to Nat. Championship at 19 he said he would be back and backed it up. He has been a Winner everywhere he has been and taken the tough roads to get there. J.J. gets the nod over the others as the most competitive and those clutch plays back it up no. wise too. There is no debate here.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Supposedly bettings odds now have McCarthy as a realistic shot to be drafted #2.

[Est.1974]

49 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Chargers look like only team who would trade down.

AZ could trade back from #4

[Jumbo]

Deion is saying Williams is going to "pull an Eli." I'm not taking that (Or Deion) seriously, but it's kinda fun to play that "what if." 

 

Think of Williams refusing Chicago and insisting on Washington. 😁😛🤡 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Supposedly bettings odds now have McCarthy as a realistic shot to be drafted #2.

 

I'd be utterly shocked if McCarthy goes #2. I think there's about a 2% chance. At #2 overall you're generally going to be picking a guy who either has enormous upside or enormous production, but ideally both.

 

McCarthy doesn't really fit either bill. Now, the production thing may not necessarily be his fault, as he can't directly control how he's used in a system, but he was mostly a game manager on a stacked run and defense focused team in college. And while he has decent traits, he's not some crazy talented guy. He has a so-so arm, decent athleticism, ok speed and scrambling ability.

 

I'm not saying he can't end up as an upper tier NFL QB. I'm saying that IMO there just isn't enough visible upside to warrant taking him at 2 vs guys like Maye and Daniels who both have that crazy upside.

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Deion is saying Williams is going to "pull an Eli." I'm not taking that (Or Deion) seriously, but it's kinda fun to play that "what if." 

 

Think of Williams refusing Chicago and insisting on Washington. 😁😛🤡 

If he refused Chicago and insisted on Washington that would scare the crap out of me. It worked out for the Giants with Eli but I would still really question Williams if he chose that route (honestly dont think he will... but still).

[Rex Tomb]

8 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

If he refused Chicago and insisted on Washington that would scare the crap out of me. It worked out for the Giants with Eli but I would still really question Williams if he chose that route (honestly dont think he will... but still).

It would definitely be another feather in his diva cap, so I would be very nervous, as well. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Guy spends over 3.5 minutes highlighting one play where he throws to his wide open first read lolol come on man

Yeah, I like how he also pretends that this was some tricky look the defense was throwing at him when it is actually the standard version of the most basic coverage ever.

Edited March 26 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Redskins 2021]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

AZ could trade back from #4

 I guess they could, but I don't think the pass on Harrison. They need a WR. If I had to bet I think Chargers and Minnesota have a deal in place depending on who is there. I can't see the Chargers trading with Denver and Las Vegas.

 

Edited March 26 by Redskins 2021

[Dah-Dee]

32 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Deion is saying Williams is going to "pull an Eli." I'm not taking that (Or Deion) seriously, but it's kinda fun to play that "what if." 

 

Think of Williams refusing Chicago and insisting on Washington. 😁😛🤡 

 

If you're talking about Sanders' comments yesterday, he actually said his son would do that, next year, along with Travis Hunter, if they didn't like the city(ies) they were going to.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2024/03/25/deion-sanders-nfl-draft-2025-shedeur-travis-hunter-colorado-football/73095202007/

 

He did express concerns about Williams' ability to succeed in Chicago's cold weather:

 

https://247sports.com/article/2024-nfl-draft-deion-sanders-warns-caleb-williams-of-chicago-bears-cold-weather-228821124/

[Conn]

9 hours ago, illone said:

Actually, he was asked to carry Michigan, just not in the same way Maye was asked. In the biggest moments in the biggest games, he delivered with his arm and made plays. I watched every single play of both playoff games. Against Bama he was down 10 and you just never felt any panic in the kid. He was going to find a way to move the ball and make plays. I was not shocked AT ALL when he converted a bunch of 3rd and longs and at least one 4th down as well. Miss any of those and they lose the game. 

 

I got the same vibe from Mahomes when he was down 10 in the Super Bowl. It was like, cool, I'll spot you ten points and then rip your heart out in the 4th quarter. 

 

Never in doubt.

 

I want that killer instinct in my QB. 

 

Llke Burrow, Mahomes, Brady, Montana.

That ice in your veins that you will not be denied.

 

Josh Allen does NOT have that. Neither does Herbert.

 

Talented, yes.

 

Killer instinct? 

 

Nahhh.

 

 

 

No offense but those first few sentences read like certain posters talking about Heinicke two years ago. This stuff doesn't carry that much weight with me. The same things were said about Tua coming out, and more burden was placed on him as a National Championship winning passer on an equally stacked team. And he's…fine. No one here would trade the #2 overall pick right now for Tua. He’s entered the realm of QB’s who are really good but will destroy your salary cap. Not special. Is McCarthy going to be better than a similar "winner", but more developed passer coming out, in Tua? I doubt it. 

 

Mahomes won nothing in college because his team sucked. Allen was a missed FG away from the SB. The stuff about being a "winner" doesn't matter that much imo, it feels surface level. It's a tie-breaker, maybe. It makes you wonder how the prospect will respond to actual adversity and a less ideal situation. 

Edited March 26 by Conn

[Warhead36]

"he's a winner" is the absolute worst argument ever and has ZERO translation to the NFL.

 

By that logic, Stetson Bennett should have been the #1 pick.

[e16bball]

9 hours ago, illone said:

Actually, he was asked to carry Michigan, just not in the same way Maye was asked. In the biggest moments in the biggest games, he delivered with his arm and made plays. I watched every single play of both playoff games. Against Bama he was down 10 and you just never felt any panic in the kid. He was going to find a way to move the ball and make plays. I was not shocked AT ALL when he converted a bunch of 3rd and longs and at least one 4th down as well. Miss any of those and they lose the game. 

I don’t want to mess with the storyline, but he actually only converted one 3rd and long (or 4th and long) in the two games of the CFP.

 

That was a second quarter 3rd and 10 in the Alabama game, where he threw a shallow crosser to Tyler Morris, 5 yards short of the sticks, and Morris turned it upfield and scored a 38-yard TD. 
 

In total, JJ threw 17 passes on 3rd and 4th downs in the CFP, and Michigan got 3 successful conversions out of them.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

We almost have to come out of the 2nd round with a starting OT - I'd hate to do it but I could understand us packaging the two 2nd round picks and some change t get back into the second half of the first round if an OT we like is there or if there is a run on OTs and we fear missing out. Right now I would say both opening day starting OTs are not on the roster.

 

Wylie is going to start at RT next year.  He's not the disaster that you guys were scapegoating him to be last year.  He had a 69 grade from PFF and played a thousand snaps last year.  He's a starter, especially in a league with a shortage of OTs.  The line needs continuity just to be functional, and he, Cosmi, and Lucas are all we've got in that regard.

 

What worries me far more than Wylie at RT is the chance that we're going to play two rookies beside each other on the left side.  Nick Allegretti and Michael Deiter are not starters.  Deiter only played starter snaps his rookie year, and Allegretti only played 2/3rds of a season of snaps once, back in 2020, and that was his career high.  IMO Deiter and Allegretti were brought in to backup Biadasz and Cosmi and whoever ends up playing LG.

 

What we don't have on the the roster is a starting caliber left side to the OL.  Two day two rookies starting there will get smoked.

 

It'd be nice if Braeden Daniels, Chris Paul, or Ricky Stromberg won the LG job.  But Paul is the only one who has played meaningful snaps among them, and he was really bad.

 

Building a wall in pass pro in the interior of your line being so important to the success of a rookie QB, I'm surprised we didn't put more urgency into getting a good LG in free agency.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

 

Building a wall in pass pro in the interior of your line being so important to the success of a rookie QB, I'm surprised we didn't put more urgency into getting a good LG in free agency.

Yeah there were some good Gs, particularly LGs, available in FA. They did cost quite a bit but it'd have been worth it to ensure our future QB's protection.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

"he's a winner" is the absolute worst argument ever and has ZERO translation to the NFL.

 

By that logic, Stetson Bennett should have been the #1 pick.

 

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Deiter only played starter snaps his rookie year,

According to what I read he had 23 starts with the dolphins and started 12 games last year with the Texans.

Where did you read that he only had starter snaps his rookie year?

[rhyno]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Florio also said we were hiring Bill Bellicheck.

 

The fact is nobody knows what we're doing.

 

BTW, voice_of_reason's boy Thor Nystrom is on 980 now. This should be a hoot....

[Ghost of]

27 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

"he's a winner" is the absolute worst argument ever and has ZERO translation to the NFL.

 

By that logic, Stetson Bennett should have been the #1 pick.

You said this like a month ago.  Just about the same exact phrasing. It's offensive to compare a 5 star athlete who won at multiple levels, took the job from an incumbent CFP starter to Stetson Bennett. I saw the guy make multiple NFL throws, incredible athletic plays that Bennett did not make. McCarthy absolutely was needed to win a title, that's why he took McNamara's job and it was obvious immediately how much better he was than McNamara even in that spot-duty.

Edited March 26 by Ghost of

[redskinss]

Mike florio has the most punch able face I've ever seen.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

You said this like a month ago.  Just about the same exact phrasing. It's offensive to compare a 5 star athlete who won at multiple levels, took the job from an incumbent CFP starter who lost because it was Georgia's best team of their title teams to Stetson Bennett.  

I'm not comparing the two. I'm saying the logic of saying "we should draft him because he's a winner" is terrible because its not something that translates to the NFL.

 

if you wanna argue he has a good arm, size/athleticism, experience in a pro offense etc. then fine, I can at least listen to that argument.

 

Subjetive arguments like "he won", "he was clutch" etc. are just useless trash arguments that have no merits for translation to the pros.

 

Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar jackson didn't win much in college either.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not comparing the two. I'm saying the logic of saying "we should draft him because he's a winner" is terrible because its not something that translates to the NFL.

 

if you wanna argue he has a good arm, size/athleticism, experience in a pro offense etc. then fine, I can at least listen to that argument.

 

Subjetive arguments like "he won", "he was clutch" etc. are just useless trash arguments that have no merits for translation to the pros.

 

Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar jackson didn't win much in college either.

 

"He has MOXIE, man!"