The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

He also suffers from rabbit ears IMO, something that afflicted JC a good deal in his time here.

 

What are "rabbit ears"?

 

I have theories but would prefer confirmation.

 

 

Edited March 18 by FootballZombie

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, Conn said:

The value to us, yeah. There’s a reason so many teams covet the inaccessible. 

 

Agreed. I can't even begin to formulate why trading back is even an option to some people at this point. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Agreed. I can't even begin to formulate why trading back is even an option to some people at this point. 

 

 

@JamesMadisonSkins would like to have a word.  In a back alley.  While holding a fire iron.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Maye friend, but it's not that wide of a gulf disagreement wise. I've not done any confirmation of the veracity of this statement, but I believe Matt Waldman has expressed the same concerns for what it's worth.

 

 

M Waldman believes talk Drake Maye might drop, and Nix rise

Manhattan : 2/5/2024 9:12 pm

Rookie chatter talk.

Matt Waldman does believe the chatter about Drake Maye possibly dropping. The chatter comes from some evaluators leaking contrary evals. He says in his study he gets Desmond Ridder vibes from Maye. Thinks he is a late first round or 2nd/3rd round QB. Never understood the talk about going #2. Thinks decision-making, accuracy and mechanics are lacking. Great athlete but a bit of Mitchell Trubisky to his game.

Conversely, he likes Bo Nix, and believes he is a riser. Says scheme argument used against Nix is incorrect. The Oregon offense is more varied than is often portrayed. He thinks Nix is accurate, moves around well in the pocket, and makes strong decisions. He is able to create inside and outside structure.

It is linked here and should cue correctly, but if not, this portion of the conversation starts at 26:40.


Feel It Or F@#k It: 2.5.24: An RSP Cast with Bob Harris and Matt Waldman - ( New Window )

 

It's been eons since we've been in the driver seat to take a QB.  And granted for me am just riding with what i've seen.  I trust my instincts on scoping out bad QBs.  Am better at that than I am at scoping out the good ones.   lol, i am known for crapping on Darnold and lesser known for doing the same on Rosen, Trubisky among others.  But for me Maye doesn't have those same red flags, not even close.

 

He can make throws on every level. Out routes, in routes.  Has touch on his throws.  He can gun it.  Goes through 3-4 reads on some plays.  Makes plays off platform.  He can run.  He has the full arsenal.  He's not perfect.  i laid out his flaws.  But if we are waiting for the draft community and fans to fully embrace him or any QB prospect, its not happening.   It rarely does.   But that doesn't bother me.   These QBs get torn apart.    It means nothing though. 

 

Here are some on Herbert. I can easily add like another 15 articles beyond the ones below.

 

 

https://ditchrich.substack.com/p/justin-herbert-bad-takes-shaker-samman

 

“He’s inconsistent and he can’t get to the second level.” - Alex Rollins, NFL Analyst

Alex Rollins is one of the smartest film reviewers on YouTube, and his videos legitimately have made me a better football watcher—but boy, was he wrong on this one.

 

 

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2020-01-03-oregon-quarterback-justin-herbert-looks-like-a-future-nfl-draft-bust/

Oregon Quarterback Justin Herbert Looks Like a Future NFL Draft Bust

 

“There is not a guy that I am more afraid of drafting at quarterback than Justin Herbert of Oregon… I watched that Wisconsin game and thought ‘I can’t believe people think he’s going to be accurate at the next level’. He turned the football over and all of Oregon’s points were set up by their defense getting turnovers. He’s supposed to be a dynamic quarterback but he only threw for 150 yards in a bowl game. He has too many hits and misses and he’s so inconsistent. At times he looks like Josh Allen because he runs with the football but he didn’t do it a lot during the season. I look and think ‘My God is he inaccurate’ and ‘Where is he throwing the football??’ He’s a really dicey pick and the guy makes me really nervous.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2021/04/23/nfl-draft-2021-penei-sewell-upset-over-justin-herbert-criticism/7347556002/

Oregon OT prospect Penei Sewell: Seeing Justin Herbert NFL draft 'slander' hurt

 

Penei Sewell felt the sting before he entered the NFL prospect conversation.  

The Oregon left tackle says he’s on social media, so “to say I don’t ever see (criticism) is a lie.” 

But before his talent and potential were the focus of fan and evaluator scrutiny, Sewell watched his college teammate Justin Herbert go through the wringer. Questions swirled about whether the Oregon gun-slinger, who skews quiet by nature, could adequately lead an NFL locker room.  

“To see the slander Justin Herbert was getting, I even hurt,” Sewell told USA TODAY Sports over Zoom on Thursday. “I was even hurting. I took it personal, too, like, ‘Why y’all even think this and that?’ Then I was like – just wait. Just wait ’til he has his opportunity. Justin Herbert will do Justin Herbert things. 

 

 

Edited March 18 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

LOL. He said 2 days ago this was pretty much confirmed. Lets pause on posting so many of some anon on X's takes.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I like Bram.  I really do.  But read his show summary, the second part.  I haven’t listened yet.  Talk about tin foil hat theories.

 

EDIT: I’m pretty sure @SoCalSkins thinks this is a totally reasonable conclusion. 

If this Danny S, you can see this.

 

Not sure someone trying to make Bears not draft them and be available to us; guarantees we would then draft.  
 

I think the current regime wouldn’t look kindly to that. Doesn’t mean they won’t draft him but I’d look at that as a big flag. If he’s trying get one team not to draft him, what other things could he try to do?

 

 

Even though Chicago likely getting a new coach in 25; Caleb could get a big say in that. Bears are a weak organization; do Caleb and Daddy could exert their will. Maybe Caleb tells Bears to woo Kliff in 25.

[Skinsinparadise]

Apparently the Bears are running the ruse right to the bitter end

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@JamesMadisonSkins would like to have a word.  In a back alley.  While holding a fire iron.  

Nope. I’m all in for QB this year. We’ve accumulated enough draft capital 😂

 

BUT if Peter’s doesn’t like any QB and chooses to trade back for a haul, I’d be disappointed yet hype simultaneously lol

[kingdaddy]

So, Prime Time Deion Sanders came out and voiced concerns over the Bears selecting Caleb Williams because they'd be taking a kid from California and putting him in the frigid city of Chicago. In Deion's words, "its a real concern" that the Bears should seriously think about before taking CW. Then he doubled down and said he's concerned the same thing will happen to his son next year with his son having grown up in Texas. Does he make a good point? 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Just now, kingdaddy said:

So, Prime Time Deion Sanders came out and voiced concerns over the Bears selecting Caleb Williams because they'd be taking a kid from California and putting him in the frigid city of Chicago. In Deion's words, "its a real concern" that the Bears should seriously think about before taking CW. Then he doubled down and said he's concerned the same thing will happen to his son next year with his son having grown up in Texas. Does he make a good point? 

 

Not with Caleb's arm.  I'd worry if the QB had a meh arm.  But Caleb has a rocket.   Caleb is originally of course from the DMV so its not as if he's not experienced cold weather.

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Apparently the Bears are running the ruse right to the bitter end

 

 

 

 

 

"Apparently the Bears are running the ruse right to the bitter end."

 

When you're planning a world class sting every minute detail is important.

 

 

 

 

 

[seantaylor=god]

32 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

LOL. He said 2 days ago this was pretty much confirmed. Lets pause on posting so many of some anon on X's takes.

 

 

I’m confused, the opposite of what Schefter was reporting below would be that the trade WAS happening, and it did.

 

So wasn’t SearsTower correct?

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I’m confused, the opposite of what Schefter was reporting below would be that the trade WAS happening, and it did.

 

So wasn’t SearsTower correct?

You are certainly confused, because that trade did not happen 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The first play in this cut up is one of the throws which I loved from Maye.  
 

It’s a post play, receiver splits the safety and the safety, Maye fires the ball between the defenders. He reads it properly, notices the outside leverage of the DB and the late coverage of the safety. Puts the ball on time where only his guy can get it in a small window.

 

if he’s half a beat late or doesn’t have the ability to drill it in there, this is an incompletion or the WR is wrecked.  
 

This is an NFL throw and read.  
 

This throw is not available to every QB in the league.  I don’t think Daniels can make this throw.  Maybe.  But he would need to really step into it.  McCarthy might be able to. I assume Williams could make it, but I honestly haven’t watched one snap of his ever.   I don’t know about Penix or Nix, I haven’t watched them either.  
 

 

You can watch or skip the rest of the video.  The first play is the one I love.  

Edited March 19 by Voice_of_Reason

[FootballZombie]

23 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Then he doubled down and said he's concerned the same thing will happen to his son next year with his son having grown up in Texas. Does he make a good point? 

 

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not with Caleb's arm.  I'd worry if the QB had a meh arm.  But Caleb has a rocket.   Caleb is originally of course from the DMV so its not as if he's not experienced cold weather.

 

I could see arm strength helping to cut thru the wind in CHI, but isn't Deion talking specifically about the cold?

 

Some guys just are not used to operating in a cold environment and that can impact their play. It greatly numbs the fingers and that effects the ability to grip the ball, so a lot of guys opt to wear gloves to compensate. Anything that effects the QBs relationship to the ball, even gloves, is going to effect their passing and consistency.

 

 

Unless you have tape of a guy operating in the cold, there is no way to truly know how he is gonna hold up, but I would expect someone who plays in a given environment regularly to adapt to it over time.

 

I wouldn't let any of this stop me from drafting a guy I see as "the guy" tho. Whatever Caleb's cold tolerance and ability to play in low temps is now, I bet it will be better in 2 years.

 

 

[zCommander]

Alright @Voice_of_Reason has convinced me, even though I liked Maye before but got intrigued with Daniels. But now it is time to take a stance on the matter. I have updated my Avatar to reflect it.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

44 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Even though Chicago likely getting a new coach in 25;

What is it with you and firing everybody before the season starts?

[illone]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’ve seen other people make the Drake Maye to Carson Palmer comparison. That sounds good to me. If Carson Palmer hadn’t had those injuries, he was a stud.

 

carson was a statue. Maye runs around way more than him…

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Alright @Voice_of_Reason has convinced me, even though I liked Maye before but got intrigued with Daniels. But now it is time to take a stance on the matter. I have updated my Avatar to reflect it.  

To be clear, I could find plays I really liked with Daniels.  He had a few beautiful fades which were money.  
 

I think I prefer Maye because I think he could offer more versatility from the pocket and good escapability and ability to create.  He has shown he can throw timing routes and make NFL reads.

 

However Daniels can take the ball to the endzone from literally anywhere on the field himself.  If he gets half a step, he’s gone.  He has good mechanics and good touch on the deep ball.  
 

What scares me about Maye is his inconsistency.  In the UVA game, he missed 2 wide open deep TDs because he just flat over threw the receiver.  Why? Dunno. He hit 2 also.  Maybe it’s because hitting a target 50 yards down field is hard?  But he missed throws he should make.

 

What scares me about Daniels is he doesn’t have the option for all NFL throws.  And has to be presented as a runner.  And is tiny and I am concerned if he has 170 rushing attempts (10 per game on either scrambles or designed runs) he’s going to get blasted and get hurt.

 

But I like both.  I have a slight preference to Maye.  But I won’t be upset either way.

[CommanderInTheRye]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The first play in this cut up is one of the throws which I loved from Maye.  
 

It’s a post play, receiver splits the safety and the safety, Maye fires the ball between the defenders. He reads it properly, notices the outside leverage of the DB and the late coverage of the safety. Puts the ball on time where only his guy can get it in a small window.

 

if he’s half a beat late or doesn’t have the ability to drill it in there, this is an incompletion or the WR is wrecked.  
 

This is an NFL throw and read.  
 

This throw is not available to every QB in the league.  I don’t think Daniels can make this throw.  Maybe.  But he would need to really step into it.  McCarthy might be able to. I assume Williams could make it, but I honestly haven’t watched one snap of his ever.   I don’t know about Penix or Nix, I haven’t watched them either.  
 

 

You can watch or skip the rest of the video.  The first play is the one I love.  

 

 

That's a ****ing on the money laser. 

 

I would be so excited if we got a qb who could consistently make plays like that.

[zCommander]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

To be clear, I could find plays I really liked with Daniels.  He had a few beautiful fades which were money.  
 

I think I prefer Maye because I think he could offer more versatility from the pocket and good escapability and ability to create.  He has shown he can throw timing routes and make NFL reads.

 

However Daniels can take the ball to the endzone from literally anywhere on the field himself.  If he gets half a step, he’s gone.  He has good mechanics and good touch on the deep ball.  
 

What scares me about Maye is his inconsistency.  In the UVA game, he missed 2 wide open deep TDs because he just flat over threw the receiver.  Why? Dunno. He hit 2 also.  Maybe it’s because hitting a target 50 yards down field is hard?  But he missed throws he should make.

 

What scares me about Daniels is he doesn’t have the option for all NFL throws.  And has to be presented as a runner.  And is tiny and I am concerned if he has 170 rushing attempts (10 per game on either scrambles or designed runs) he’s going to get blasted and get hurt.

 

But I like both.  I have a slight preference to Maye.  But I won’t be upset either way.

 

The middle of the field is concern for me. Daniels lack of that is.

 

I don't look at deep throws as a bad as some do. The accuracy sometimes is going to be off a bit when going really deep. I like to see more of accurate connected passes of 50 yards or less. This helps to move the chains. As long as the QB is able to move the chains within 3 downs and keep the opposing defense off the field that is more important to me. 

 

The thin frame of Daniels is a concern, but he could put on some pounds but might still not be enough if he is truly under 210. 

 

The only concern for me for Maye is the footwork and whether our OC and QB coach can get that straighten out before the season starts though. 

 

The only thing we don't know is what kind of offense the coaches are putting together and for what style of QB they are for. Will see. 

 

Edited March 19 by zCommander

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

That's a ****ing on the money laser. 

 

I would be so excited if we got a qb who could consistently make plays like that.

And therein lies the problem.  He’s inconsistent.

 

I’m not nearly skilled enough to tell you why. Mechanics? Decision making? Brain fart? Dunno.

 

But he CAN make the throw.  And he had about 5 throws just as impressive in that UVA game.  Timing throws driven 40 yards in the air.  
 

But he also misses stuff you wouldn’t think he should miss. 
 

If he didn’t miss the stuff he shouldn’t miss he might challenge Williams for the #1 spot.  

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And therein lies the problem.  He’s inconsistent.

 

I’m not nearly skilled enough to tell you why. Mechanics? Decision making? Brain fart? Dunno.

 

But he CAN make the throw.  And he had about 5 throws just as impressive in that UVA game.  Timing throws driven 40 yards in the air.  
 

But he also misses stuff you wouldn’t think he should miss. 
 

If he didn’t miss the stuff he shouldn’t miss he might challenge Williams for the #1 spot.  

 

 

 

That UVA game is a perfect example of what worries me more than anything else about Maye - inconsistency.  He made some great throws in that game - but he also only completed 50% of his passes, with some bad misses, and threw a pick against a bad team, resulting in a loss at home in a game they should have, and needed, to win.  He's really good... and then he's really bad. 

 

I'm worried that we're overlooking serious mechanics/makeup issues because of the WOW plays we see from him. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

That UVA game is a perfect example of what worries me more than anything else about Maye - inconsistency.  He made some great throws in that game - but he also only completed 50% of his passes, with some bad misses, and threw a pick against a bad team, resulting in a loss at home in a game they should have, and needed, to win.  He's really good... and then he's really bad. 

 

I'm worried that we're overlooking serious mechanics/makeup issues because of the WOW plays we see from him. 

In fairness, he had 8 drops on perfect passes which would have greatly increased his completion percentage.

 

I think there was a period of time in the second or third quarter where there were 3-4 obvious drops in a row.

 

No QB is perfect coming out of college.  They’re all unfinished.  They all need to work on mechanics and none of them are running true pro style systems.  
 

I like to see what they are capable of.  If they show capability, then in theory, good coaching can help them improve and maximize their potential.

Edit to add: in no way and in no universe was Maye responsible in any way for the loss.  That loss was on the UNC defense and to a lesser extend the entire supporting cast.  The OL is horrid and the receivers dropped big play after big play after big play.  They needed Maye to be perfect.  And he almost was.  He had by my recollection 3 bad balls the entire game. 
 

The lost.  And it wasn’t remotely his fault.  

Edited March 19 by Voice_of_Reason

[Command The 414]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

In fairness, he had 8 drops on perfect passes which would have greatly increased his completion percentage.

 

I think there was a period of time in the second or third quarter where there were 3-4 obvious drops in a row.

 

 

I'm so glad you bring that up cause so many people only see the final stats and run with it, and/or only see game highlights and form a opinion off of that, i always say, stats are so misleading and actually are for losers attempting to justify their opinion, this board has been overrun with the opinion on Maye from the UVA game it's not even funny, I believe the majoirty have seen it mentioned so many times thy themselves are using it as a opinion of their own now.