The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

Why the **** are we talking about old assholes like Cousins and Wilson when we have the #2 overall pick in a strong QB year?

 

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

[goskins10]

25 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, I meant to go back and correct myself.  I was wrong about that. 

 

But there is a team related cap thing, they don't actually get the savings until June 1, I think.  And on this, I'm pretty sure I'm right about...

 

There is. I put in my comment. The team gets a roster spot but has to keep the CAP hit on the books until June 1. So when they go to rule of 51 they have to include tht CAP to thier total. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

If they don't like Maye or Daniels, then they have 2 options:

 

1. Trade up for Williams if they like him

2. Trade down and don't pick a starting QB at all, or at least not one you think is going to be a future franchise guy.  Because if you don't like Maye/Daniels because you don't have a good enough feeling they could be a franchise guy, there's just no world in which there is a higher likelihood one of the next tier is going to be that guy.  It COULD happen.  It happens about 4 times in a decade when a player picked outside the first round becomes a franchise QB.  Wilson, Cousins, Hurts (second round), Dak, Purdy.  I might be missing somebody, but I'm not missing many.  What has to happen is basically every team has to blow the evaluation, and then you have to get lucky.  

 

Something interesting about the late round guys who became starters:

- Russell Wilson: He was drafted to be the backup, maybe compete for the starter... The Seahawks had just signed Matt Flynn to be the starting QB, signing him to a 3 year, $19m deal.  In 2012, that was a pretty good sized contract. Russell won the job, but he wasn't drafted to be the starter.

- Cousins: He was drafted to be the backup to Griffin

- Hurts: He was drafted while they had Wentz.  He wasn't forced to play right away, and there was no thought he would be the immediate starter.  

- Dak: Dallas still had Romo when they drafted Dak.  He wasn't drafted to be the immediate starter.

- Purdy: He was drafted as Mr. Irrelevant when the 49ers still thought they had a guy in Trey Lance as the starter.  

- Brady: going way back, they had Bledsoe as the starter.  Brady wasn't drafted to start.  He was drafted to be a backup.

 

The only second round QB I can think of who was definitively drafted to be a starter pretty quickly was Drew Brees.  And that didn't go well for a few years.  To the point where he was bad enough the chargers picked Eli, and then traded him to the Giants to get Rivers.  Then Brees blossomed, got hurt, went to New Orleans, won a SB and has hotel reservations for his HOF induction in 2026.  

 

But the whole "trade down and get a guy" thing hasn't worked.  I'm sure there's somebody I'm missing, and somebody is going to post "but you forgot about THAT GUY!"  But the point is, it's not very likely.

 

And we don't have a starter penciled in to pick the later round QB.  So history would tell us, trading down and expecting tier 2 QBs like McCarthy, Penix or Nix to pan out as a starter, not going to happen.  

 

This assumes the teams grades on these QBs are the same as yours and others. They likely are. But no gaurantees. You could bring back Brissett and draft one of the so called 2nd tier QBs. I do not think it's good idea as I am mistly alighned with you. But until it happens all possibilites are there. 

 

I think there is a 90% chance they take one Maye or Daniels. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Why the **** are we talking about old assholes like Cousins and Wilson when we have the #2 overall pick in a strong QB year?

 

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

Still got to draft one.

[SoCalSkins]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah offset was reported. 

 

Just now, Est.1974 said:

All over the place, trying to track down some now…

 

They’ll make the move a post-June 1 transaction. It could result, based on our understanding the payments made and still owed and per a source with knowledge of the situation, a cap charge of $35.4 million for 2024, and another cap charge of $49.6 million for 2025.

 

If/when Wilson signs elsewhere in 2024, the Broncos would get a dollar-for-dollar credit against his $39 million guaranteed compensation package in 2024. That credit would apply, we’re told, in 2025.

 

It’s a massive cap obligation, to be sure. It would have gotten worse, however, if the Broncos had kept Wilson beyond March 17, when his $37 million salary for 2025 would have become fully guaranteed.

Offset is typically only included in rookie contracts for the first 4 years. If a player gets cut and the offset language is there then the team who drafted and cut him gets an offset from the new team. 
 

Russ would structure a deal  with league minimum salaries to minimize any offset that’s included in his deal if any regardless. He’s not signing a 15 mil a year deal to offset what the Broncos owe him and get $0 dollars. The agent will be way more creative than that. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

This assumes the teams grades on these QBs are the same as yours and others. They likely are. But no gaurantees. You could bring back Brissett and draft one of the so called 2nd tier QBs. I do not think it's good idea as I am mistly alighned with you. But until it happens all possibilites are there. 

 

I think there is a 90% chance they take one Maye or Daniels. 

This is true.  As I've said, I actually think Daniels is not in the top 2 QBs as rated by the NFL, it's a figment of the imagination of the armchair GMs.  

 

I think we're picking Maye.  That's not saying what I want to or don't want to happen, because I honestly don't care.  But I thin the Bears are taking Williams, and I think Maybe is the consensus #2 and the gap between him and Daniels is bigger than the gap between Williams and Maye in the eyes of the NFL GMs.  That's a guess, but I'm guessing based on what I think I'm seeing in terms of the sell jobs and what they look like.  

 

It is possible the NFL GMs see Williams as the only #1 QB, and lump Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Penix and Nix into the same "tier 2" category.  I doubt it, but it's possible.  

 

But if that's the case, then it would be like 2022, when the first QB off the board was Pickett to Pittsburgh at 20.  The NFL hated the entire class.  If the NFL lumps all those guys together, then they're saying they hate this class minus Williams.  If that's the case, all of them are going to drop and people will lose their minds.

 

I personally don't see that as likely. It is lying season, but I think NFL teams are going to love Williams, really like Maye, like Daniels, and are ok with the rest.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Conn said:

Why the **** are we talking about old assholes like Cousins and Wilson when we have the #2 overall pick in a strong QB year?

 

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

Because dumbass Adam Schefter went on the Pat M. show and dropped Washington might getting involved in Cousins.  Because Cousin's agent wired a million dollars to Schefter's off-shore numbered account in the Grand Caymans so they could leverage Washington's cap room in order to drive up the price for whoever is actually going to sign him.

 

It's a sell job.  But a lot of people, including Bram Weinstein and Al Galdi, just can't help themselves in talking about what they know is a sell job.  Bram said about 8,249 times, "the agent told Schefter to say this. It's probably not true." Then went on for 40 minutes talking about it.  

 

Galdi had a Vikings reporter on to talk about "you know who." (He doesn't call Kirk by his name because it stirs an emotional reaction.) 

 

And we're talking about Wilson because he was officially notified of his release and he has ties with Quinn.  

 

We're not getting either one.  We're sticking at 2 and picking a QB.  Most likely Maye. Maybe Daniels.  

 

But the talking heads need to fill the airwaves, and we're too stupid to ignore it.  

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Why on earth would we want either of those two? A "Retread" Cousins and a "has never been" Wilson. We literally have a clean slate from top to bottom, let's run it that way and start this **** fresh! 

We can still run it fresh with Wilson. We’d have him for two years on essentially a rookie deal. We could trade down from number two and pick up more draft assets  in this year and next. Or draft MHJ with number 2. Build the OLine and rest of roster with those assets and have two years to find our young QB.

 

Everyone keeps pointing at last years  Texans. Yes you can obviously turn your season around in one year but it’s extremely rare. We need a literal overhaul of the “entire” roster.

 

For the record I want them to take either Caleb or Maye or Jaden but wouldn’t be upset with above scenarios.

 

Hell NO to Kirk. Yes if front office wants Russ and his “rookie contract”.

 

We’ve been clamoring for a capable front office for years.

 

Let ‘em cook!

Edited March 5 by NYSkins21

[WashingtonRedWolves]

I don't know if Orlovsky is qualified to talk about QB or not, but his take on Drake Maye is that he needs to sit for a year or two to clean up his sloppy footwork. Kinda mitigates the age difference if you have to wait until Maye is 23-24 to start him.

 

 

Also this. And he's watched all of their snaps for the big three.

 

 

[ExoDus84]

19 minutes ago, Conn said:

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

 

Hey, you...you watch yourself, bucko. Otherwise I'll start posting about trading the farm to pick up Zach Wilson and his hot mom.

[The Consigliere]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think much more often people are lumping the "big 3" together as Tier 1.

 

Even within a tier, there is separation.  Williams is the consensus #1 pick. 

 

Some of this is semantics.

 

If you wanted to, you could say:

Tier 1: Williams

Tier 2: Maye/Daniels

Tier 3: MCarthy, Penix, Nix

 

Though I wouldn't be shocked if it was

Tier 1: Williams

Tier 2: Maye

Tier 3: Daniels, MCarthy, Penix, Nix

 

I think Daniels and McCarthy are getting snow jobs by their agents.  I don't think either is anywhere near as highly thought of in the league as they are by the reporting.  

I think if anyone mentions Maye in Williams tier, it's related to only 2 topics:

#1 Maye coming off his '22 performance, was a contender for the #1 spot in the same way Marino was coming off his '81 season, as he dueled with Elway for the #1 overall spot during the '82 season. We all know what happened after that, Marino had a scattershot year, Elway had another great year (minus the famous " ThePlay" against Cal), and then drug/cocaine rumors trailed Marino around in the lead up to the draft, Elway went #1, and Marino tumbled nearly out of round 1 entirely). Well coming into August '23, Williams lead on Maye was similar to Elway's on Marino coming into '82, and while neither had breakout '23's, Williams managed to keep most of his draft capital momentum, while Maye slipped, like Marino 41 years earlier. 

 

#2 Maye does not have the mental make up, personality, and family issues that hang over Williams to such an extent that he got booed at the freaking combine of all things (and kinda harassed at the Q&A), and some people are deeply concerned Williams has off the field problems so concerning, it renders his clear talent superiority to Maye, as not necessairly enough to go #1, especially considering that Maye has similar arm talent, and ideal size unlike Williams.

 

All this being said, I don't think there's anyone sane, who has Maye ahead of Williams on talent. That's crazy. Williams is a tier all its own. I think any quibbling, is because people know that they were very close going into '23, and that #2 it's quite easy to see how Maye and Daniels could end up the better pros. Mental make up is a real thing. Are Williams issues there, just personality quirks off the field that impact likability or are they Jeff George level locker room cancer level cancers? If the former, who cares, if the latter, it's easy to see other guys proving the better investments (see Leaf in '98 as another example). 

[Koolblue13]

36 minutes ago, Conn said:

Why the **** are we talking about old assholes like Cousins and Wilson when we have the #2 overall pick in a strong QB year?

 

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

No

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

16 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

I don't know if Orlovsky is qualified to talk about QB or not, but his take on Drake Maye is that he needs to sit for a year or two to clean up his sloppy footwork. Kinda mitigates the age difference if you have to wait until Maye is 23-24 to start him.

 

 

Also this. And he's watched all of their snaps for the big three.

 

 

 

I think there's a strong argument that all of the top QB's (imo, especially Caleb Williams) needs to sit for a bit. They all have talent, but none are polished.

[Est.1974]

Sounds like a vet might be a good idea alongside a rookie…….

[The Consigliere]

19 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

We got so lucky avoiding that scenario. Ron was willing to give up far more than Denver but Russ didn’t want to come here. 
 

I’m impressed with Sean Payton. He ripped off the band aid instead of kicking the can down the road. Let’s see how patient the Walton guy is with their rebuild. 

Me too. I wish more coaches/GM's understood that. Denver aint winning ---- right now. Might as well sacrifice '24, and build toward '25/'26 and beyond. Can't fix that horrible trade.

 

So very glad we avoided that. It's so telling that all of Ron's ideas to fix QB were stupid veteran decisions, trading for Wentz, trading for Stafford, trading for Russell. Never developing anything at all. No ability to recognize that his success in Carolina was exclusively predicated on Cam Newton on a rookie contract landing in his lap. Thank God none of those QB's save Wentz were okay with coming here (and I like Stafford, but with that back, and his wife's health issues, I never thought he'd come here, and if he did, he probably would have retired after a season or demanded another trade). 

[MartinC]

55 minutes ago, Conn said:

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

 

Rhetorical question?

[BurgundyBooger]

5 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Sounds like a vet might be a good idea alongside a rookie…….

 

That's why we have Sam. 

[MartinC]

19 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

I’m impressed with Sean Payton. He ripped off the band aid instead of kicking the can down the road. Let’s see how patient the Walton guy is with their rebuild. 

 

I guess the time a coach can do that is after the first year of a 5 year $18M a year contract!

[mh86]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Why the **** are we talking about old assholes like Cousins and Wilson when we have the #2 overall pick in a strong QB year?

 

Can you idiots be normal for once? 

We have a chance to build something truly special here. So naturally us fans are going to come up with some brilliant ideas to ruin that.

Edited March 5 by mh86

[gooseneck]

I agree with all of you.

[Jumbo]

Just now, gooseneck said:

I agree with all of you.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

3 minutes ago, gooseneck said:

I agree with all of you.

 

[DiscoBob]

What's Mark Sanchez doing? 🤡

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 minute ago, DiscoBob said:

What's Mark Sanchez doing? 🤡

The team could probably get him cheap. Let him serve in a mentor role.

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I think there's a strong argument that all of the top QB's (imo, especially Caleb Williams) needs to sit for a bit. They all have talent, but none are polished.

 

This whole idea of Maye having horrible footwork is somewhat overblown IMO and mostly seems to be something that just gets repeated.

 

From the cutups I've watched of him (many times now), I do think that his footwork can get inconsistent and sloppy at times, especially on shorter dropbacks and passes. He'll have times where he won't set his feet fully and just tries to arm it, which leads to inaccurate passes. It may be because he feels hurried or it's just a bad habit. But certainly nothing insurmountable.

 

The way some people tell it, Maye drops back, and then trips over his own feet three times before helplessly rolling around on the ground while slobbering uncontrollably.

Edited March 5 by mistertim

[DiscoBob]

Just now, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

The team could probably get him cheap. Let him serve in a mentor role.

 

...when the linebacker hits the A gap on a play like this, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is to watch out for your teammates a**