The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Erm. Now I grew up in Baton Rouge, been an LSU fan for decades, and decades and decades and decades (sigh), watched every LSU game in 2023, love watching Daniels create so much excitement out there... but no way I agree he's a better passer than Lamar Jackson. Jackson has a cannon and can fit throws into windows Daniels will just never be able to hit. Daniels is good at dropping fades and bombs right into the basket, and that's definitely a skill most others in this draft can't touch, but overall Daniels as a passer is .... pretty good. Not great. 

 

I still think Maye is the most Mahomes-like QB in this draft and therefore is the guy Kingsbury will want to work with. 

 

We are talking about Jackson in college. He has one sesson of barely 60% completion percentage and was less than accurate all 3 seasons. Having good arm strength is not the equivalent of being a good passer. I'm not sure why people keep confusing the two. You know what matters more than a strong arm? Actually being accurate when you throw the ball.

 

Jackson 2015 - 55% 

Jackson 2016 - 57%

Jackson 2017 - 60%

 

And I like Jackson. 

[mistertim]

Just now, Conn said:

For sure.

 

But also, the test seems to be pointless and they just don’t want to say that. It’s at least arguably a waste of time and potentially just adds an errant data point to the pool of information teams are using.

 

I don't think it's pointless. It apparently pretty accurately predicted Mahomes, Allen, and Purdy, all of whom aced it. The Stroud thing was mostly a one-off it seems, and the company themselves had flagged his test results as likely not reliable.

 

A test like that is going to be far more useful than a Wonderlic, which measures general intelligence, vs. the S2 which measures how quickly and accurately someone processes information. That's especially true for a QB.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I don't think it's pointless. It apparently pretty accurately predicted Mahomes, Allen, and Purdy, all of whom aced it. The Stroud thing was mostly a one-off it seems, and the company themselves had flagged his test results as likely not reliable.

 

A test like that is going to be far more useful than a Wonderlic, which measures general intelligence, vs. the S2 which measures how quickly and accurately someone processes information. That's especially true for a QB.

 

I mean, Justin Fields supposedly did incredibly well on it and he isn't good. So did Bryce Young who then turned around and had a historically bad rookie season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

11 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

We are talking about Jackson in college. He has one sesson of barely 60% completion percentage and was less than accurate all 3 seasons. Having good arm strength is not the equivalent of being a good passer. I'm not sure why people keep confusing the two. You know what matters more than a strong arm? Actually being accurate when you throw the ball.

 

Jackson 2015 - 55% 

Jackson 2016 - 57%

Jackson 2017 - 60%

 

And I like Jackson. 

 

I just referenced arm strength because, as passers, that's the biggest difference I see between the two right now. Didn't see where Bayou was talking about college Lamar, sorry.

 

I will say that in college, Jackson had both a terrible OL and bad receivers for three years, tons and tons of drops. Also well-documented footwork problems fwiw, that have clearly been corrected in Baltimore; 67% completion last year, fifth year in a row at 62%+.

 

Love Daniels, but do think his college completion % probably helped at least a little by having elite WRs with hands of glue (Nabers and Thomas both sick, can we get a serving of that over here please?!), maybe not to the extent Jackson was hurt by lack of same (have seen analytics showing Daniels good at being on target), but still, grains of salt to go with both sets of college stats.

Edited February 16 by Dah-Dee

[CapsSkins]

19 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

#2OA is not sitting for a year

 

Also huge pass on commanders country, lets ride

 

"Commies Country... Peace, Land, & Bread!"

 

 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean, Justin Fields supposedly did incredibly well on it and he isn't good. So did Bryce Young who then turned around and had a historically bad rookie season. 

 

Wait, how was Young's season "historically bad"? It wasn't good, but plenty of high first round picks have done worse than 11 TDs and 10 INTs their rookie year.

[Dah-Dee]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Wait, how was Young's season "historically bad"? It wasn't good, but plenty of high first round picks have done worse than 11 TDs and 10 INTs their rookie year.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-bryce-youngs-rookie-season#:~:text=According to ANY%2FA (adjusted,of the world than not.

 

"

According to ANY/A (adjusted net yards per attempt) Young’s season behind center is the 5th worst of all time by any quarterback.

The historical comparisons are bad. First round picks that have a year like Young are more likely to turn into the Josh Rosens and Brandon Weedens of the world than not. "

[mistertim]

Just now, Dah-Dee said:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-bryce-youngs-rookie-season#:~:text=According to ANY%2FA (adjusted,of the world than not.

 

"

According to ANY/A (adjusted net yards per attempt) Young’s season behind center is the 5th worst of all time by any quarterback.

The historical comparisons are bad. First round picks that have a year like Young are more likely to turn into the Josh Rosens and Brandon Weedens of the world than not. "

 

Ah, thanks. I hadn't really done any sort of deep dive into his more advanced stats.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, Dah-Dee said:

 

I just referenced arm strength because, as passers, that's the biggest difference I see between the two right now. Didn't see where Bayou was talking about college Lamar, sorry.

 

I will say that in college, Jackson had both a terrible OL and bad receivers for three years, tons and tons of drops. Also well-documented footwork problems fwiw, that have clearly been corrected in Baltimore; 67% completion last year, fifth year in a row at 62%+.

 

Love Daniels, but do think his college completion % probably helped at least a little by having elite WRs with hands of glue (Nabers and Thomas both sick, can we get a serving of that over here please?!), maybe not to the extent Jackson was hurt by lack of same, but still, grains of salt to go with both sets of college stats.

 

I mean I think Nabers, Thomas and Daniels all helped each other for sure. But even at ASU, Daniels was never inaccurate with the football. Even his rough year in 2021 he was at 66% completion percentage.

 

The excuse for why MHJ didn't have better numbers this year was because he didn't have a good QB throwing to him like Nabers did. It's all a flat circle. 

 

And yes Nabers and Thomas are really good.

[redskinss]

35 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

That’s what I mean though. Daniels is a much better passer than Lamar and will shred defenses with his arm if he has to. That’s why I think he’s going to be everything the media pretends Lamar to be. Lamar and Monken got away from what makes him so successful against the Chiefs. Lamar always comes up short in the playoffs too. I’m not that impressed with Lamar’s passing. He was outside the top ten in both passing yards and TDs. I think Jayden can has the ability to be top 5 in both. And that combination with his running ability will have him on a Stroud like first season. That’s what I envision anyway. Could be dead wrong but that’s what I truly think will happen. 

If that's true and he is the unicorn, then hell yes, sign me up.

I'm just not as convinced.

Edited February 16 by redskinss

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Yep, he's incredibly creative.  Manages pressure so well, rock solid poise, fantastic field vision, touch is variable and instinctive, and he has elite physical tools.  Most of the things that normal high level NFL QB prospects tend to struggle with, are pronounced strengths for Drake.  He's a big, strong-bodied athletic QB with the tools that draw a comparison to Herbert/Allen, but he is vastly further along as a pocket passer/field reader/efficient creator than they were at the same age.  Especially Allen.

 

He's one of the easiest to see coming blue chip QB prospects that I've ever watched, and it took me like one game to be completely sold on him.  Opportunities to get QB prospects as good as him are so rare, especially when you're only picking second in a draft.  This is not a hard choice for us.  He's closer to being the worthy #1 overall pick than Jayden Daniels is to being #2.

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I just want a qb who can be a solid 10-15 year starter.

That's Kirt Kousins.  I want someone who'll be great and I don't care if it's for 7 and then he leaves for HUGE $ after getting a couple of Lombardis for us.

[Dah-Dee]

6 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

But even at ASU, Daniels was never inaccurate with the football. Even his rough year in 2021 he was at 66% completion percentage.

 

Daniels has talked before about how unhappy he was in 2021 at ASU, throwing a ton of screens and short patterns (AY/A went from 9.4 in 2019 to 7.1 in 2021) - which helped his completion % but also resulted in fewer yds, fewer TDs - and which was a big part of why he entered the transfer portal. We can see why ASU wanted to try the shorter stuff with him, though - first two years at ASU he was at 61 and then 58% completion. 

 

LSU coaches have also talked about the first work they did with Daniels (other than making him start eating), which was footwork, and which paid immediate dividends in 2022, when both his completion % and his AY/A went up.

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Daniels has talked before about how unhappy he was in 2021 at ASU, throwing a ton of screens and short patterns (AY/A went from 9.4 in 2019 to 7.1 in 2021) - which helped his completion % but also resulted in fewer yds, fewer TDs - and which was a big part of why he entered the transfer portal. We can see why ASU wanted to try the shorter stuff with him, though - first two years at ASU he was at 61 and then 58% completion. 

 

LSU coaches have also talked about the first work they did with Daniels (other than making him start eating), which was footwork, and which paid immediate dividends in 2022, when both his completion % and his AY/A went up.

 

So I don't think we should be considering the Covid year where only 4 games were played as a "season." Its not even a third of a season. 

 

But yeah when Likens got fired and Hill was hired they ran a totally different offense. Hill was a "pound the rock" guy, old school football. It ended up being great for Rachaad White but not so much the other offensive players (Pearsall and Wilson also left ASU)

Edited February 16 by ThatNFLChick

[RandyHolt]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

What about OnlyFans?

 

 

...........asking for a friend

Requisite

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I think many people are really not seeing past 2024-25. I see what we are doing as a long term project, that will hopefully bring short term rewards. We have a stack of cap space and in reality a stack of draft picks.

 

We have overloaded on staff. QB is by far the most important position we need to address, as Peters has said. Not sure we trot out a #2 pick QB and let him get buried alive. 
 

Now picking Caleb at #1 is a different story.

 

The reality is if you pick a QB #2 overall the pressure to play him is huge. I wouldn't have an issue with sitting him behind Howell or Brisset (or vet on good backup type money) for a season and giving him a redshirt year . But I absolutely would not bring someone in on good NFL starter money even on a 2 year deal, and someone who commanded good NFL starter money would probably have options that gives them a longer deal with guaranteed money etc anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep, he's incredibly creative.  Manages pressure so well, rock solid poise, fantastic field vision, touch is variable and instinctive, and he has elite physical tools.  Most of the things that normal high level NFL QB prospects tend to struggle with, are pronounced strengths for Drake.  He's a big, strong-bodied athletic QB with the tools that draw a comparison to Herbert/Allen, but he is vastly further along as a pocket passer/field reader/efficient creator than they were at the same age.  Especially Allen.

 

He's one of the easiest to see coming blue chip QB prospects that I've ever watched, and it took me like one game to be completely sold on him.  Opportunities to get QB prospects as good as him are so rare, especially when you're only picking second in a draft.  This is not a hard choice for us.  He's closer to being the worthy #1 overall pick than Jayden Daniels is to being #2.

 

I spent a lot of time on Maye, more than any player I've watched. i am with you on Maye.  He's easily who I want at #2.  I think Daniels is likely going to be good, too if he can stay healthy but Maye is definitiely who i want.   As to him developing he's only 21 so in theory the sky it the limit. 

 

I noticed Maye has a lot of ex-Qbs who are now draftniks pushing him not only as the better pick at #2, but some think he should be in the running for #1.  Most of PFF, pick Maye at #2, too.

 

....One scout with a history of accurate quarterback assessments anticipates that he ultimately will grade Maye higher than eight of the nine first-round quarterbacks drafted over the last three years, including the top-two 2023 picks (Panthers’ Bryce Young and Texans’ C.J. Stroud)

Maye’s most common comparison in scouting circles is the Chargers’ Justin Herbert because of stature, pocket mobility and demeanor.

 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/15/sports/giants-would-do-well-with-either-caleb-williams-or-drake-maye/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

That may be based on an earlier version of Brugler's big board.  He has Maye at QB2 here.

 

 

[rumplestilskin]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

We are talking about Jackson in college. He has one sesson of barely 60% completion percentage and was less than accurate all 3 seasons. Having good arm strength is not the equivalent of being a good passer. I'm not sure why people keep confusing the two. You know what matters more than a strong arm? Actually being accurate when you throw the ball.

 

Jackson 2015 - 55% 

Jackson 2016 - 57%

Jackson 2017 - 60%

 

And I like Jackson. 

I agree with what you are saying but it doesn't hurt to possess above average arm strength when considering situations where wind, rain and snow are factors. FWIW

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

No, but he's the only guy to beat Mahomes when counted. 

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

 

Deleted 

Edited February 16 by DiscoBob

[WashingtonRedWolves]

Damn, Maye is built the same as Bowers

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Damn, Maye is built the same as Bowers

 

Is that a good thing or bad thing? Neither are muscular but they are both tall guys with plenty weight (Bowers looked tiny next to Gronk though)

 

 

Edited February 16 by ThatNFLChick