The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Burrow was the most sacked QB his rookie year and survived. Daniels can put on some muscle before the season starts. He is listed at 210lbs right now per ESPN. 

 

As I said, I'd be shocked if Daniels is currently over 200lbs. College teams pretty much always over hype their QBs height and weight.

 

And either way, it's not about getting sacked, it's about running style. Burrow is and always was a pocket passer who would occasionally use his legs to extend plays or scramble a bit when there was green grass in front of him. Daniels is a QB who runs a ton, takes a bunch of big hits, and who seems to believe he's a 5'10 220lb RB.

 

Anyone who doesn't find that the least bit concerning after watching Daniels play is just odd to me.

[Warhead36]

I don't really like the "he can put on muscle" argument. We said that about Emmanuel Forbes too. Did he? Not really. Its not so easy to just "put on muscle." These aren't 17-18 year old NBA draft picks that are still growing. Jayden Daniels is already 23. He might be done with his physical development at this point. You're also completely changing your body chemistry and you have no idea how it'll affect your play. Who is to say Daniels can even put on weight and if he does, how does it affect his speed and athleticism, which is his main calling card?

 

Also, these kids go to major D1 college programs who have millions of dollars to work with. I would venture to guess LSU has better facilities, amenities, etc. than the Commanders do. If they could have easily put more weight on Daniels, they would have.

Edited January 24 by Warhead36

[Conn]

20 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Burrow was the most sacked QB his rookie year and survived. Daniels can put on some muscle before the season starts. He is listed at 210lbs right now per ESPN. 

Btw, Tom Brady came in at whopping 211 lbs at the combine.  

Weight is not distributed the same for all people who weigh the same. Neither is body makeup. Some dudes have thin hips, thin knees, etc. while weighing the same and being the same height as someone built thicker. RG3 had valgus knees. It’s not just about raw height and weight. 
 

Also with Daniels people’s concerns aren’t just about his build. It’s about the fact that he looks like a Super Smash Bros character being flung off the screen every time he gets hit. He looks like a cartoon character being put through an advanced physics simulator on these hits. The guy can’t protect himself in college and it’s not a skill that you can be SURE is learnable. If he could do it, wouldn’t he be doing it at the level of ball where he’s proportionally more athletic than everyone else and doesn’t need to go 1000% to out-athlete everyone? It’s only going to get harder in the NFL where there’s tons more defensive speed (and size and skill). 
 

Lamar Jackson has a sixth sense about it and rarely ever runs at full speed when he takes off because he’s so aware of every player around him. He’s got eyes in the back of his head and supernatural spatial awareness. And he’s still missed time. You can’t just project that a guy like Daniels can learn that skill. That’s the worry, his ability to protect himself, not just his physical size and makeup. 

[SoCalSkins]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

Weight is not distributed the same for all people who weigh the same. Neither is body makeup. Some dudes have thin hips, thin knees, etc. while weighing the same and being the same height as someone built thicker. RG3 had valgus knees. It’s not just about raw height and weight. 
 

 

There are exceptions. Football players who weigh what Forbes weighs and have the same height, almost all look the same. Basically human stick figures. 

[Warhead36]

38 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

Lamar Jackson has a sixth sense about it and rarely ever runs at full speed when he takes off because he’s so aware of every player around him. He’s got eyes in the back of his head and supernatural spatial awareness. And he’s still missed time. You can’t just project that a guy like Daniels can learn that skill. That’s the worry, his ability to protect himself, not just his physical size and makeup. 

Yeah I just don't see Lamar AT ALL when watching Daniels. I see a lot more RG3. Not that that doesn't have some great advantages, but man are the disadvantages strong and risky...

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

This is correct, and will peak around the combine. You forgot the last step, which is Maye making a national media reputational resurgence as they hear more reliably what the teams at the top are actually thinking as the hype from the combine fades…and then things settle back into the original status quo. lol

Otoh, that's not what happened with Richardson last year, guys like Richardson and Lance in particular flew up draft boards in part because of what teams saw from Mahomes, Allen and Lamar. The ability of a dynamic athlete QB has caused some big misses, but also radical elevations. I was surprised when it didnt happen for Willis and the NFL did seem to accurately note his floor. Not so much with Lance. 

 

We'll see. I do, in general, suspect you'll see that play out with Daniels, but in this case, it's just gonna lock into 1-2-3 even more than it already is locked in. We don't have guys flying up boards because they're already there. I'm more curious about what happens amongst that second tier of Penix Jr, JJ, and Nix. That could be incredibly volatile. Not so the big 3. 

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Otoh, that's not what happened with Richardson last year, guys like Richardson and Lance in particular flew up draft boards in part because of what teams saw from Mahomes, Allen and Lamar. The ability of a dynamic athlete QB has caused some big misses, but also radical elevations. I was surprised when it didnt happen for Willis and the NFL did seem to accurately note his floor. Not so much with Lance. 

 

We'll see. I do, in general, suspect you'll see that play out with Daniels, but in this case, it's just gonna lock into 1-2-3 even more than it already is locked in. We don't have guys flying up boards because they're already there. I'm more curious about what happens amongst that second tier of Penix Jr, JJ, and Nix. That could be incredibly volatile. Not so the big 3. 

It’s kinda exactly what happened with Richardson, he flew up into the top-5 but despite speculation he could jump the old news names everyone had already talked to death, he didn’t overtake the guys perceived as being more developed, pedigreed passers. Which is what I expect to happen with Daniels. Probably going at #3 rather than #4, with Williams and Maye going at #1 + #2. 

 

Daniels just “flew up” earlier in terms of internet mocks, people are wising up. And he’s pretty high profile, at LSU and winning the Heisman with monster numbers and all. 

Edited January 24 by Conn

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

And either way, it's not about getting sacked, it's about running style. Burrow is and always was a pocket passer who would occasionally use his legs to extend plays or scramble a bit when there was green grass in front of him. Daniels is a QB who runs a ton, takes a bunch of big hits, and who seems to believe he's a 5'10 220lb RB.

 

Severely disagree. Burrow's run style is atrocious.

 

Joe Burrow has been a human crash test dummy. Near zero in the protective instinct stat. He is absurdly bad at it and gets absolutely throttled as a result.

He is like the inverse of a safety taking a bad angle to a play, he simply shows no ability to triangulate vectors in real time when on the move.

I don't think I have ever seen a QB with a more devastating highlight tape of horrific hits than Joe Burrow.

Some guys get in car crashes. That dude gets hit by trains. Its no wonder he has such an extensive injury history.

I don't care how big/small you are, you can't do what he does. Like Burrow has, you'll end up in a body bag on the field.

 

You can find a bazillion of these on Joe.

 

 

Wherever JD ends up going, they better pray his run style is light years better than Burrow, and even tho he gets blasted a ton in college, I'd say it already is above Joe's imaginary protective instinct.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Joe Burrow weighed in at 221 lbs at the combine. I'd be shocked if Daniels is more than 200 lbs right now. The dude looks like a human swizzle stick. Also, Burrow wasn't running for 1100 yards at LSU and throwing his body around and getting hit like a rag doll. Your comparison is completely invalid and the concern is completely legit.

Did I hear correct that Daniels was about 180-185 before his transfer to LSU, it’s certainly a key factor pre draft.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Severely disagree. Burrow's run style is atrocious.

 

Joe Burrow has been a human crash test dummy. Near zero in the protective instinct stat. He is absurdly bad at it and gets absolutely throttled as a result.

He is like the inverse of a safety taking a bad angle to a play, he simply shows no ability to triangulate vectors in real time when on the move.

I don't think I have ever seen a QB with a more devastating highlight tape of horrific hits than Joe Burrow.

Some guys get in car crashes. That dude gets hit by trains. Its no wonder he has such an extensive injury history.

I don't care how big/small you are, you can't do what he does. Like Burrow has, you'll end up in a body bag on the field.

 

You can find a bazillion of these on Joe.

 

 

Wherever JD ends up going, they better pray his run style is light years better than Burrow, and even tho he gets blasted a ton in college, I'd say it already is above Joe's imaginary protective instinct.

 

His run style is not light years or even light seconds better than Burrow. Daniels get's rag dolled on the regular.

 

So to keep this same comparison: let's say both Burrow and Daniels have bad running styles that open them up to hits. The guy who ran for 1100 yards likely took more hits than the guy who ran for 350. True or false?

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

His run style is not light years or even light seconds better than Burrow. Daniels get's rag dolled on the regular.

 

So to keep this same comparison: let's say both Burrow and Daniels have bad running styles that open them up to hits. The guy who ran for 1100 yards likely took more hits than the guy who ran for 350. True or false?

 

True, but your missing the point of my post.

 

I didn't say Daniels run style was significantly better, just better than Joe's total lack of protective ability.

 

I pushed back at the idea that a guy who regularly gets lobotomized in college and the NFL is any sort of goal to strive for.

 

JD's team better be doing everything in their power to ensure he is significantly better at protecting himself than Joe has been, otherwise he will always be hurt regardless of his size.

[HTTRDynasty]

I think running styles/instincts are pretty much set at this point in a draft prospect's development.  Daniels will never have the instincts or sliding prowess of someone like Russell Wilson, who spent his whole childhood and teen years playing baseball.  It's a massive risk gambling he can improve on this aspect of his game and/or avoid the big hits.  The players on defense in this league are just too fast/powerful to bank on that.

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I think running styles/instincts are pretty much set at this point in a draft prospect's development.  Daniels will never have the instincts or sliding prowess of someone like Russell Wilson, who spent his whole childhood and teen years playing baseball.  It's a massive risk gambling he can improve on this aspect of his game and/or avoid the big hits.  The players on defense in this league are just too fast/powerful to bank on that.

 

Yeah didn't RG3 literally try to take sliding lessons from a former baseball player or something? Did zero for him.

 

Some guys have that sense for how to avoid big hits and some guys just don't. To me Daniels doesn't seem to have it, given how often he gets plastered and could likely have avoided it.

[RandyHolt]

Caleb is 6-1?

 

 

Even if he truly is 6-1 its too short for a 1OA IMO. Of course I said the same thing about 1st round cornerbacks being under 167.

 

Edited January 24 by RandyHolt

[CapsSkins]

As I have said before and @Conn pointed out, durability risk is not just about the nominal weight number in lbs but about build. That's why certain players are described as "thick", because there's a strength and stability there beyond the number on the scale.

 

At 23 years old, it's not clear whether Daniels can simply put on 10-15 lbs of muscle, whether doing so would make him proportionally more durable, and that it would not affect his speed if he did.

 

It's a bigger roll of the dice anyway you want to put it. That might still be attractive, but one should at least understand the risk for what it is. Of course, there are some Daniels boosters who were also big on Penix and downplayed his injury issues who went quiet after his National Championship performance. 😉

 

Ultimately, people will have their own risk appetites for player durability.

[clskinsfan]

41 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Caleb is 6-1?

 

 

Even if he truly is 6-1 its too short for a 1OA IMO. Of course I said the same thing about 1st round cornerbacks being under 167.

 

Caleb's height is fine. Its not ideal obviously. But with the way he changes arm angles and moves around the pocket to create throwing lanes it isnt an issue for him.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I would venture to guess LSU has better facilities, amenities, etc. than the Commanders do. If they could have easily put more weight on Daniels, they would have.

Facts

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah didn't RG3 literally try to take sliding lessons from a former baseball player or something? Did zero for him.

 

Some guys have that sense for how to avoid big hits and some guys just don't. To me Daniels doesn't seem to have it, given how often he gets plastered and could likely have avoided it.

 

Not sure RG3 is any measure of mental flexibility or ability to adjust in the NFL, honestly. And I think the guy gets a bad wrap generally. But he.....wasn't good at learning new stuff and it doesn't sound like he was particularly willing to anyway.  

 

Tho I get your point and I guess I agree. I don't think the hits get easier to avoid in the NFL either. 

[CapsSkins]

It's worth noting Burrow and Lamar have both had injury issues in the NFL that are likely to some extent due to their build + playing style.

 

Mahomes is listed at 225 lbs, Herbert at 236, Allen at 237, Dak at 238, Tua at 227, Hurts at 223, even Goff is at 217.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

Also, these kids go to major D1 college programs who have millions of dollars to work with. I would venture to guess LSU has better facilities, amenities, etc. than the Commanders do. If they could have easily put more weight on Daniels, they would have.

LSU have clearly put more weight on him, likely in a controlled manner. The key question is whether his body is able to keep adding another 15lb for example in the next 12-18 months.

[ThatNFLChick]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't really like the "he can put on muscle" argument. We said that about Emmanuel Forbes too. Did he? Not really. Its not so easy to just "put on muscle." These aren't 17-18 year old NBA draft picks that are still growing. Jayden Daniels is already 23. He might be done with his physical development at this point. You're also completely changing your body chemistry and you have no idea how it'll affect your play. Who is to say Daniels can even put on weight and if he does, how does it affect his speed and athleticism, which is his main calling card?

 

Also, these kids go to major D1 college programs who have millions of dollars to work with. I would venture to guess LSU has better facilities, amenities, etc. than the Commanders do. If they could have easily put more weight on Daniels, they would have.

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role. Daniels already put on weight from 22 to 23, it was reported in every LSU publication (U posted an article in this very thread)

 

But all this worrying about weight is silly IMO. I get it when its someone like Bryce Young, there's nothing you can do about his height. Put him on a meal plan/weight system, he'll be fine. Also for the people who are like "well but why couldn't he do it at LSU", well first of all he did and 2nd, I am sure everyone knows there is a difference between splitting your time with school and being able to focus on ball and training, etc full time when you're in the NFL. 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role. Daniels already put on weight from 22 to 23, it was reported in every LSU publication (U posted an article in this very thread)

 

But all this worrying about weight is silly IMO. I get it when its someone like Bryce Young, there's nothing you can do about his height. Put him on a meal plan/weight system, he'll be fine. Also for the people who are like "well but why couldn't he do it at LSU", well first of all he did and 2nd, I am sure everyone knows there is a difference between splitting your time with school and being able to focus on ball and training, etc full time when you're in the NFL. 

 

 

 

Joe Burrow infamously barely ever even stepped foot on campus at LSU lol. Those guys aren't there to play school...

[pico926]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role. Daniels already put on weight from 22 to 23, it was reported in every LSU publication (U posted an article in this very thread)

 

But all this worrying about weight is silly IMO. I get it when its someone like Bryce Young, there's nothing you can do about his height. Put him on a meal plan/weight system, he'll be fine. Also for the people who are like "well but why couldn't he do it at LSU", well first of all he did and 2nd, I am sure everyone knows there is a difference between splitting your time with school and being able to focus on ball and training, etc full time when you're in the NFL. 

 

 

I agree. He faired well taking hits from NFL type players in the SEC. No other QB in consideration for #2 draft pick faced tougher, harder hitting defenders than Daniels. 

[HTTRDynasty]

This video is Exhibit A of why height/weight/strength/frame, etc. matters so much.  He's able to throw accurate passes with guys hanging off him.  You can definitely see why he's so often compared to Big Ben and Josh Allen with these plays.

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

13 minutes ago, pico926 said:

I agree. He faired well taking hits from NFL type players in the SEC. No other QB in consideration for #2 draft pick faced tougher, harder hitting defenders than Daniels. 

 

I could understand all hand wringing if he had an injury history or something. Many people have pointed out he's older than other prospects, cool, that means he's played a lot of ball against a lot of good defensive and offensive players and been fine.

 

Played Justin Herbert and a good Oregon defense and beat them.

Played Bryce Young and a good Alabama defense and beat them.

Played Anthony Richardson and beat him too.