The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

It’s hard for me to understand how anyone would object to taking a QB in the first considering the QB desert we have wandered around in for the last thirty years. 
 

We are due for some good fortune. I actually think Maye winds up third off the board once the media fawns over Daniels’ athleticism for the next four months. We shall see where we wind up. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

12 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'd take the 85 Bears over any team from this decade. God I'd love to see the 85 Bears vs Tom Brady just to see him get hit and fear for his life. 

The 85 Bears would get smoked by a lot of teams nowadays. Anybody who has three good wide receivers would give them trouble.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Good stuff, and I think Purdy is a pretty good QB but so was Rypien. Both are/were better because of their teams that theyr'e on right?

 

Of course.  I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.  But its not easy to build a roster like the 49ers let alone keep it.  They are brimming with elite talent.  McCaffrey is elite.  Kittle is elite. Samuel as a YAC threat is elite.  Bosa is elite.  Warner is elite.  Trent is elite.  They have 6 elite players.  We got none.  It's been very difficult for this team to find even one elite player every decade or so let alone have 6 elite players on the team at the same time.

 

So no doubt we can be the exception if we find 6 elite players and a stacked roster.  So yes in short if you build the best roster in the league by a mile you can win with just good QB play.

 

But my point is building that type of roster is arguably just as hard as finding an elite QB.

 

However the point in play here is very simple.  

 

We might pick top 3.  We've been at that spot organically on average once every 20 years.  Do we just blow off that opportunity at QB and start a new regime the same way Ron started his?  Or take a different path? 

 

To me it not even a real debate.  It's no brainer turf if the new regime loves any of the top QBs.  And heck I made the same point months ago when Sam was playing well.  You don't typically blow off a top QB on the rare chance you are picking that high.

[kingdaddy]

13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The 85 Bears would get smoked by a lot of teams nowadays. Anybody who has three good wide receivers would give them trouble.

We had 3 very good WR's in 1985 and they smoked us 45-10.

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Of course.  I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.  But its not easy to build a roster like the 49ers let alone keep it.  They are brimming with elite talent.  McCaffrey is elite.  Kittle is elite. Samuel as a YAC threat is elite.  Bosa is elite.  Warner is elite.  Trent is elite.  They have 6 elite players.  We got none.  It's been very difficult for this team to find even one elite player every decade or so let alone have 6 elite players on the team at the same time.

 

So no doubt we can be the exception if we find 6 elite players and a stacked roster.  So yes in short if you build the best roster in the league by a mile you can win with just good QB play.

 

But my point is building that type of roster is arguably just as hard as finding an elite QB.

 

However the point in play here is very simple.  

 

We might pick top 3.  We've been at that spot organically on average once every 20 years.  Do we just blow off that opportunity at QB and start a new regime the same way Ron started his?  Or take a different path? 

 

To me it not even a real debate.  It's no brainer turf if the new regime loves any of the top QBs.  And heck I made the same point months ago when Sam was playing well.  You don't typically blow off a top QB on the rare chance you are picking that high.

We have to go QB unless we get a motherload of an offer to move back and even then we may have to decline and go QB. I'm with you, when you pick this high and you don't have a definitive guy at QB you gotta go QB. If we get the right guy we could be set for 15 years....

[Skinsinparadise]

The QB comparisons are jumping the gun but overall he's on point.  He's a mega fan with press credentials and liked-likes Howell. 

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 

We have to go QB unless we get a motherload of an offer to move back and even then we may have to decline and go QB. I'm with you, when you pick this high and you don't have a definitive guy at QB you gotta go QB. If we get the right guy we could be set for 15 years....

 

OK then we are in agreeement.  

 

There are no guarantees of course with any pick.  But its so rare to pick this high let alone in a very good QB draft by reputation.  Yeah 4 years ago it happened but before that it was 20 years ago to pick this level high assuming we stay in the top 3.   

 

If we do the same dance we did 4 years ago and take a different position, it would feel a bit crazy to me. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

another good one

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

48 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Didn't Beathard make a killing in Plan B free agency???? I remember a bunch of our unheralded guys being plan B signings.

 Ricky Sanders, Kelvin Bryant, Gary Clark , USFL If I remember correctly after folding. Cannot remember how plan B free agency worked.  

[Skinsinparadise]

This @Koolblue13 on twitter?

 

 

 

 

[Conn]

26 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The 85 Bears would get smoked by a lot of teams nowadays. Anybody who has three good wide receivers would give them trouble.

lol try every single current NFL team. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger. Rules are skewed to offenses. Offensive schemes are about 20x more complicated and built to confuse and abuse better athletes who dedicate more hours to their craft than most in the 80’s did. The average QB is way better even though the best ones are so damn good that it makes the gap look wider than ever. 

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

lol try every single current NFL team. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger. Rules are skewed to offenses. Offensive schemes are about 20x more complicated and built to confuse and abuse better athletes who dedicate more hours to their craft than most in the 80’s did. The average QB is way better even though the best ones are so damn good that it makes the gap look wider than ever. 

Half that Bears defense would be ejected before the end of the 1st half.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This @Koolblue13 on twitter?

 

 

 

 

That's anyone who isn't an incompetent frittata of an OC. I knew that post turtle would suck. I wonder how many interviews he'll fail at this off season. I can imagine him trying to talk to our new GM/FO and them just laughing hysterically and throwing cream pies at his clown ass 

 

Some of the worst play calling I've ever seen. EB is failure.

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

lol try every single current NFL team. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger. Rules are skewed to offenses. Offensive schemes are about 20x more complicated and built to confuse and abuse better athletes who dedicate more hours to their craft than most in the 80’s did. The average QB is way better even though the best ones are so damn good that it makes the gap look wider than ever. 

I see you were born in 1989 so you probably have no clue about the 85 Bears. If you think the average QB today is way better than Joe Montana and others from the 80's then that's just plain incorrect. The 85 Bears terrified the best QB's in the league. Closest thing to them since were the Ray Lewis Ravens. 

[MrJL]

10 minutes ago, Conn said:

lol try every single current NFL team. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger. Rules are skewed to offenses. Offensive schemes are about 20x more complicated and built to confuse and abuse better athletes who dedicate more hours to their craft than most in the 80’s did. The average QB is way better even though the best ones are so damn good that it makes the gap look wider than ever. 

 

what if the current teams had to play by '85 rules?

[StuckinIA]

Odd. I was assured in the Gameday thread that there was no change in play calling after Brisket came in. 
 

It appears that the Jets LB is another know-nothing Howell Homer.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, StuckinIA said:

Odd. I was assured in the Gameday thread that there was no change in play calling after Brisket came in. 
 

It appears that the Jets LB is another know-nothing Howell Homer.

Most people have the game on but aren’t watching the nuance.

[FootballZombie]

I've seen more post game failure breakdowns of EB than I have of Howell

And many of them come from players actually on the field.

 

 

I don't know what EBs beef is with running the ball with Howell at QB. It is so strange.

I'm not sure I have seen anything like it before.

[mac8887]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

I've seen more post game failure breakdowns of EB than I have of Howell

And many of them come from players actually on the field.

 

 

I don't know what EBs beef is with running the ball with Howell at QB. It is so strange.

I'm not sure I have seen anything like it before.

I think it has more to do with Jacoby making the throws to extend drives. It backs the safties up, and keeps the linebackers on their heels. With sam we have way to many 3 and outs and 2nd and 3rd and longs to really give the running game a chance to get going. So I'd say it's 70% Sam not making plays to extend drives and 30% receivers dropping passes.

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think it has more to do with Jacoby making the throws to extend drives. It backs the safties up, and keeps the linebackers on their heels. With sam we have way to many 3 and outs and 2nd and 3rd and longs to really give the running game a chance to get going. So I'd say it's 70% Sam not making plays to extend drives and 30% receivers dropping passes.

No.

 

If you don’t believe in your QB you DONT THROW AT SUCH A RIDICULOUS PACE.

 

it doesn’t make any sense. 
 

They don’t believe in him to make drive extending throws, so let’s throw it 66% of the time.

 

EB isn’t a very good play caller. It’s that simple. Young QBs best friend is the run game. We built a bad OL and then decided we’d throw at a record pace. 
 

It’s non sensical.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

No.

 

If you don’t believe in your QB you DONT THROW AT SUCH A RIDICULOUS PACE.

 

it doesn’t make any sense. 
 

They don’t believe in him to make drive extending throws, so let’s throw it 66% of the time.

 

EB isn’t a very good play caller. It’s that simple. Young QBs best friend is the run game. We built a bad OL and then decided we’d throw at a record pace. 
 

It’s non sensical.

Who said they don't believe in him. You can't tell me that Sam taking big sacks and bailing out of clean pockets on 3rd down doesn't effect the run game. In the interview the guy stated that after Jacoby came in and made some throws they couldn't pin their ears back anymore. I think it's more the other teams d doesn't believe in Sam so they know they can pin their ears back and get in the backfield to disrupt the run and the pass. With sam there are way to many negative plays or plays that gain 0. If a team is selling out to stop the run your qb has got to make the plays to back them off. Jacoby makes those plays, Sam doesn't. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Who said they don't believe in him. You can't tell me that Sam taking big sacks and bailing out of clean pockets on 3rd down doesn't effect the run game. In the interview the guy stated that after Jacoby came in and made some throws they couldn't pin their ears back anymore. I think it's more the other teams d doesn't believe in Sam so they know they can pin their ears back and get in the backfield to disrupt the run and the pass. With sam there are way to many negative plays or plays that gain 0. If a team is selling out to stop the run your qb has got to make the plays to back them off. Jacoby makes those plays, Sam doesn't. 

No. It’s that the other team has figured out EB.

 

It may be that Sam is ALSO ineffective.

 

But the playcalls have been bad all year. 

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No.

 

If you don’t believe in your QB you DONT THROW AT SUCH A RIDICULOUS PACE.

 

it doesn’t make any sense. 
 

They don’t believe in him to make drive extending throws, so let’s throw it 66% of the time.

 

EB isn’t a very good play caller. It’s that simple. Young QBs best friend is the run game. We built a bad OL and then decided we’d throw at a record pace. 
 

It’s non sensical.

That was part of the problem with Howell.  EBs play calling and the OL.  It finally took a toll on Howell physically and mentally.  Can he recover from that.  I don't know. Patrick Ramsey never did and others haven't but maybe with a new HC and OC he can.  I think he stays on this team at least for one more season. Some team is going to need to offer something decent in a trade to move Howell and at the moment I don't see that happening.  

[mac8887]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No. It’s that the other team has figured out EB.

 

It may be that Sam is ALSO ineffective.

 

But the playcalls have been bad all year. 

So Jacoby taking 5 drives in a row for tds is happenstance?  I concede that it might be, but we would have to see a bigger sample size to be sure. The run game gets better with jacoby in because he doesnt take the huge negative plays and he gets us into 2nd or 3rd and managable. It's possible that eb has been wanting to start Jacoby for a while now, but ron hitched his name to Sam and it is rons call after all. An ineffective qb will make every oc look bad. Even on the take command post game they seem to be starting to remove some blame from eb and place it on Sam. I'm not so sure it's fair to grade eb with him being tied to Sam until we are able to see more of what Jacoby can do In this offense. If he starts against the 49ers and keeps this offense moving the way he has it will be very telling and definitely would not help the case for Sam. If he stinks it up it will hurt ebs stock.

[method man]

20 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

So Jacoby taking 5 drives in a row for tds is happenstance?  I concede that it might be, but we would have to see a bigger sample size to be sure. The run game gets better with jacoby in because he doesnt take the huge negative plays and he gets us into 2nd or 3rd and managable. It's possible that eb has been wanting to start Jacoby for a while now, but ron hitched his name to Sam and it is rons call after all. An ineffective qb will make every oc look bad. Even on the take command post game they seem to be starting to remove some blame from eb and place it on Sam. I'm not so sure it's fair to grade eb with him being tied to Sam until we are able to see more of what Jacoby can do In this offense. If he starts against the 49ers and keeps this offense moving the way he has it will be very telling and definitely would not help the case for Sam. If he stinks it up it will hurt ebs stock.

I think some of this has to do with defenses not thinking Sam is a threat at all with the deep passing game. I don’t believe he has completed a single pass over 40 yards to a wideout all season. If you are a DC, why wouldn’t you pin your ears back if that’s the threat?

 

In the two games he has played in, Jacoby has consistently threatened defenses vertically and has manipulated pressure well from the pocket so you have to change things up a bit as a DC when you face him.

 

Add the fact that the run game is generally more effective in the second halves of games

[Est.1974]

There’s definitely been a remit to justify Howell as our QB of the future by going pass happy in games. Likely driven by more senior people than EB. Unfortunately that has sold Howell down the river somewhat as he’s been taken down in the process. 
 

I think he’s been used by Ron & Co.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

40 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

So Jacoby taking 5 drives in a row for tds is happenstance?  

Your argument is without merit. EB will be fired at the end of the season.

 

Playing Brissett (who gives us the best chance to win) to evaluate EB is madness. Nobody wants to evaluate EB and nobody wants to win meaningless games that affect our draft position. 
 

Let’s move along to the next silly thing. 😆