The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

The new GM will let us know if Sam is worthy of a mulligan due to the O line and EB's pass happy scheme.

 

I dont trust any rookies so I'm not excited about taking a QB with our first pick. We have plenty of other needs to address so using the 1st on a QB means we dont get one of the stud tackles and the new QB will get at least 2 years if not 3 even if they are terrible like the kid in Chicago.

 

I know Sam can make all the throws, he has the arm, he has the mobility but does he have the intelligence?

I’m at a loss as for the right thing to do.  I look forward to someone a lot smarter and richer than me diagnosing our ills and putting a plan together.  I think what they decide to do with Sam will tell us all we need to know.

[NoCalMike]

The main issue I have with the discourse surrounding Sam (keeping in mind, this doesn't endorse him or pan him as a potential franchise QB) is that going into the season it seemed like the opinion of the majority of the fanbase was that the roster around Sam was good enough to where as long as Sam's play was around middle of the pack, the team could compete for a playoff spot (not necessarily make the playoffs but compete for it).  No one really expected Sam to be a pro bowl QB as a first year starter in this offense, but coming into the season with a 4th ranked defense returning most of it's starters, a running game that was respectable...etc etc etc....

 

However, when every other aspect of the team fell apart almost immediately, it suddenly became Sam's responsibility to pick up the slack and no longer was he afforded the up and down uneven play that is typical for a rookie/first year starter.  It seemed everyone before the season knew he as going to be inconsistent, but was okay with it and then somewhere during the course of the season that changed, despite the fact that the defense, O-line, production in the running game continued to decrease and the percentage of the offense on Sam kept increasing.  

 

At some point, we have to look at how the offense is being planned for these games and realize that it isn't really a winning strategy to expect Sam to be doing this right now at this stage of his career.

 

All that said, there is so much turnover coming to this team in the offseason, I am at peace with whatever direction the new GM/front office/HC decide to go. 

[zCommander]

“Football is football no matter what scheme you’re in, so he understands leverages, he understands where he needs to release the ball,” McLaurin said of Brissett via Nicki Jhabvala of The Washington Post. “I think with myself being a vet, him being a vet, we just have one of those connections where he feels like he’s comfortable with where I’m going to be, and I know how he’s going to place the ball up in the air.”

 

Despite McLaurin’s praise for the veteran Brissett, he remains confident and supportive of Howell.

 

McLaurin is correct on all fronts. The offense hasn’t helped Howell. Sure, Howell has made his share of mistakes, too, which is expected from a young quarterback. But Washington’s receivers have had issues with drops and creating separation. While we’re uncertain if the lack of separation is due to the players or the offensive scheme, it has been an issue at

times.

 

McLaurin seemed rejuvenated after finally getting the ball on Sunday. Over Washington’s final three games, Howell and offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy must continue to find ways to get the ball in McLaurin’s hands more. If you’re Howell, who is being evaluated for 2024, putting the ball in your best player’s hands seems like a wise choice.

 

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2023/12/18/washington-commandrs-wide-receiver-terry-mclaurin-remains-confident-in-sam-howell/

[Daniel.redskins]

30 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I know Sam can make all the throws, he has the arm, he has the mobility but does he have the intelligence?

Unfortunately, that's the part that takes seasons to develop.  I'd love to see what he can do next year, but I think what's done is done.  Fifth round picks get no more than one season, near impossible task.  He can maybe start elsewhere, but he is done for in Washington.  Sucks man, I thought we really had something. 

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Unfortunately, that's the part that takes seasons to develop.  I'd love to see what he can do next year, but I think what's done is done.  Fifth round picks get no more than one season, near impossible task.  He can maybe start elsewhere, but he is done for in Washington.  Sucks man, I thought we really had something. 

 

So he is not even good enough to be a backup on the cheap for 2 more years? What if the new shiny QB sucks and you have Sam let go? Not a good look for the GM. Forks and pitches will come out if Sam goes somewhere else and lights it up, which he will, while we continue to suck.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by zCommander

[Skinsinparadise]

The Commanders’ big bets on offense have officially gone bust

 

Analysis by Sam Fortier

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/18/commanders-offense-struggling/

 

INGLEWOOD, Calif. — The Washington Commanders’ big bets on offense have gone bust. It’s hard to untangle exactly why the unit has been so bad over the past four games — how much blame to give offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy vs. quarterback Sam Howell vs. the supporting cast — but it’s clear it’s not working. There’s little reason to suspect the unit will meaningfully improve over the final three games against elite defenses.

 

 

Even though Coach Ron Rivera said he benched Howell in the fourth quarter Sunday to protect his health and even though Rivera stressed that Howell will remain the starter, the move put an exclamation point on an abysmal month. Before Sunday, there were plausible reasons for the struggles on offense: The Commanders had faced tough pass defenses, and their own defense kept putting them in holes nearly impossible to dig out from.

WEEKS	POINTS PER GAME (RANK)	EPA PER PLAY (RANK)
1-7	19.1 (19th)	-0.08 (23rd)
8-10	25.7 (10th)	0.06 (9th)
11-15	16 (24th)	-0.13 (25th)

 

But the 28-20 loss to the Los Angeles Rams was different. The Rams’ defense is below average overall and particularly weak against the pass. The Commanders’ defense was strong in the first half and gave the offense a chance. Yet the offense was sloppy and ineffective; the team went to the locker room down 13-0.

 

Washington was only the seventh team in the past decade to win the first-half turnover battle by two or more and still trail by 13 or more points at halftime, according to the website TruMedia.

“If we knew what the issue was, we’d fix it,” Howell said of the offense’s stumbles. “What it comes down to is we just have to execute better, and that starts with me.”

 

Last offseason, Rivera sifted through the problems that torpedoed the 2022 offense — quarterback, coordinator, line — and bet on Howell, Bieniemy and a budget line that several analysts said gave the team a “razor-thin” margin for error. At this rate, the 2023 offense probably will not finish much better than any of the five impotent versions that came before it. The unit has not finished in the top 20 in offensive points or expected points added since the departure of Kirk Cousins following the 2017 season.

 

This offseason, the Commanders are likely to have a new general manager and coaching staff, which probably will have to look at the same set of problems. Given the offense’s performance, the odds seem long that Bieniemy will be one of the decision-makers. It would be easy to keep Howell, who will have two years left on his contract, but it could be tempting to draft a top quarterback prospect if the Commanders end up with a top pick. The new regime could have a relatively blank slate on the line, with only one starter, right guard Sam Cosmi, seemingly locked in to return.

 

...But the loss to the Rams neatly captures the Commanders’ recent offense. As the team walked from the field to the locker room, there were few words and no smiles. One of the last in was Bieniemy, the architect of a unit that looks like the other disappointments that have come before.

[Daniel.redskins]

53 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

So he is not even good enough to be a backup on the cheap for 2 more years? What if the new shiny QB sucks and you have Sam let go? Not a good look for the GM. Forks and pitches will come out if Sam goes somewhere else and lights it up, which he will, while we continue to suck.

 

As much as I like Howell, I don't want the new QB to deal with fans screaming for a Howell after a bad game.  A QB taken in the top 5 is a massive investment and requires a minimum 3 years of development before evaluating.  Howell has no chance to play here again.  He should be traded for something salvageable.  Believe me, I want Howell to come out next week and play like Brett Farve but it probably won't happen .  This season has been a complete wash.  At least a real GM will be here in a month. 

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

So he is not even good enough to be a backup on the cheap for 2 more years? What if the new shiny QB sucks and you have Sam let go? Not a good look for the GM. Forks and pitches will come out if Sam goes somewhere else and lights it up, which he will, while we continue to suck.

 

This!!! I don't understand why everyone thinks sams gotta go. It's not like sam is in the position of Zack Wilson. Sam is a 5th rounder that at the very least we know can sling it. Only way id be ok with loosing Sam next year is for a 5th or 6th round pick, but that's only if you plan on keeping Jacoby around as a back up. I say draft your guy and let Sam and the rook battle it out for starter. If Sam wins the job and looks halfway decent than his trade value only goes up for the next off-season while we give the rookie a chance to sit and learn the game for a year

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

There are two specific things that unfolded over the past ~month to change the calculus at QB:

 

1) Sam has faltered - whether you want to say his progress has stalled or regressed

 

And

 

2) We're crept up into a top-5 and potentially top-3 draft pick

 

If either of those things don't happen, we are likely rolling with Sam for 2024. But since they both happened, the median outcome is now likely drafting a QB in the first round. With that in mind, if we win a game or two and slide in the draft order, we're probably back to building around Sam until he proves he's not the guy. But I think we're pretty much at the point where a top-5 pick means we're getting a QB unless the new regime is cold on all the top prospects coming out.

I'm betting you're spot on with this prediction....

[skinzplay]

With an OL put together by a competent FO, I think we see the real Howell. This year was too much like his last year in Chapel Hill, but WORSE, thanks to RR's ineptitude in addressing the OL.

Edited December 19, 2023 by skinzplay

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

With an OL put together by a competent FO, I think we see the real Howell. This year was too much like his last year in Chapel Hill, but WORSE, thanks to RR's ineptitude in addressing the OL.

But what if this and his last year at chapel hill is the real Sam howell. I mean this year and then we're the last to times he had any meaningful in game snaps?

[FlyBigBeard]

3 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

With an OL put together by a competent FO, I think we see the real Howell. This year was too much like his last year in Chapel Hill, but WORSE, thanks to RR's ineptitude in addressing the OL.

Yeah, I still have hope for him. He has all the tools and we unfortunately figured out he is tough as nails. I think this team has regressed his development. With this crap offensive line. He is gunshy and worried about getting hit. As a result his development and his awareness/going through the reads has suffered. The end of the season can't get here fast enough so everyone can get fired, from the ball boy to the GM. 

[skinzplay]

I feel so bad for that kid. It didn't have to be this way!!

[kingdaddy]

Picking a QB and keeping Howell wouldnt be terrible...we could let the kid sit for 8 games and showcase Sam and see how it plays out. Teams will lose their starting QBs and come calling for one or both of our QB's....we won't have to throw the rookie to the wolves this way and can groom him. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I’m a huge Howell fan. The only way he was going to survive the regime change (as the starter) was to play so well that anyone with a brain would want to build around him.

 

He hasn’t done that. Is that fair? Absolutely not. Do I still think he can be a top half of the league starter? Yes.

 

Do I think we draft a QB if we pick top 4? I certainly do. 

[88Comrade2000]

7 hours ago, profusion said:

I would be comfortable with the next GM/HC rolling with Howell next year, but I'm quite sure they'll be evaluating their options. There are so many variables at play, that it's unwise to make absolute statements about Howell's worth right now.

 

If they do draft a QB, it'd be better to trade Howell and keep Brissett. Howell will have some teams interested, and there'd be too much distraction by keeping him around as a former starter (not saying he'd behave badly).

If we decide to draft a qb , then trade Sam and just sign a veteran backup. Could resign Jacoby or sign some other veteran. There will be plenty of veteran backup qbs available.

 

Here’s the calculus on qb. If they feel the qb position can be improved with someone in the draft, they will

do it.  If they feel Sam is better than a draft pick, they will go with him.

 

Regardless of who’s qb, the o-line will

be revamped. I figure 2 of our top 5 picks in Rounds 1-3; will be o-line. I figure we will also sign at least 2 o- linemen in free agency. We won’t be able to fill our needs in one year but they will definitely make sure the o- line is better.

[Warhead36]

Howell is a project and projects dont last through regime changes. Just bad luck he got drafted here. If he went to like the Saints or Steelers he’d probably develop into a rock solid QB.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell is a project and projects dont last through regime changes. Just bad luck he got drafted here. If he went to like the Saints or Steelers he’d probably develop into a rock solid QB.

If he was drafted in 2021, he’d probably get a better shot here. He needed to have been paired with a coach/GM that was roughly on the same timeline as he was. 

[wit33]

Jayden Daniels + Greg Roman = Playoffs 

 

Your welcome

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by wit33

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Jayden Daniels + Greg Roman = Playoffs 

 

Your welcome

 

 

 

 

 

No thanks. Lamar needed to shed Roman to grow, he was borderline stunted. Roman had his place when mobile QB’s were more of an oddity in this era and needed to be coddled to fit in this league. This is a high floor option maybe, if you want to control the clock, run the ball, rebuild the defense to complement it. But it’s not going to get a young QB like Daniels where you want him to be as a passer, so in my view it’s immediately lowering his ceiling. You could look at it as providing guardrails against busting, and maybe you’d be right…but I’d also consider it putting a speed governor  on a premium asset, nowadays. 

[method man]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

No thanks. Lamar needed to shed Roman to grow, he was borderline stunted. Roman had his place when mobile QB’s were more of an oddity in this era and needed to be coddled to fit in this league. This is a high floor option maybe, if you want to control the clock, run the ball, rebuild the defense to complement it. But it’s not going to get a young QB like Daniels where you want him to be as a passer, so in my view it’s immediately lowering his ceiling. You could look at it as providing guardrails against busting, and maybe you’d be right…but I’d also consider it putting a speed governor  on a premium asset, nowadays. 

 

I would definitely consider him for TE coach + run game coordinator if he wants to return to the league next season if Daniels were here.

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell is a project and projects dont last through regime changes. Just bad luck he got drafted here. If he went to like the Saints or Steelers he’d probably develop into a rock solid QB.

Washington was the last place for him to succeed. You have a new owner. You have a lame duck coaching staff.

 

Sam was going to have to take us to the playoffs for him to even be considered long term here.

 

He’s shown flashes and going elsewhere with a stable coach, he might get his chance to shine.

[TrustTheProcessHTTR]

Like many here have said before I think the QB position will depend on where we are drafting. Top 4 you have to look hard at QB and Harrison. 5-9 area OT or Bowers if he checks out medically. I also think it will depend on who our HC and OC is. A more veteran coach will want a OT imo while a younger less experienced coach will try to get that QB to build throughout his tenure and give him that time for both to develop

[mac8887]

6 hours ago, TrustTheProcessHTTR said:

Like many here have said before I think the QB position will depend on where we are drafting. Top 4 you have to look hard at QB and Harrison. 5-9 area OT or Bowers if he checks out medically. I also think it will depend on who our HC and OC is. A more veteran coach will want a OT imo while a younger less experienced coach will try to get that QB to build throughout his tenure and give him that time for both to develop

If we don't draft our qb, I really hope they bring Jacoby back or maybe make a play for kirk or Flacco, you know just in case Sam gets hurt or something 

[DJHJR86]

Ron Rivera really thought they found their guy in Carson Wentz and said as much repeatedly after they drafted Howell.  They drafted Howell to be a developmental backup.  In a last ditch effort to save his job he did a 180 and said he was a potential franchise quarterback.  Which he again just did a 180 on by saying if the playoffs were on the line, they would probably start Brissett.