The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RWJ]

13 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

I truly have no idea how they will approach Howell for next year if we have a high pick.  My question is whether or not y'all think we could trade Howell for something decent in the off-season.  What do you think we could get?

 

Please don't respond with "why would you be so stupid".... I'm not advocating that we trade him, just curious what his value would be...

 

 

We have him on the cheap for the next couple of years.  If the new GM wants to go QB in the 1st round, then keep him on the team for the time being.  

[zCommander]

If I am the GM, I wouldn't get a QB in the 1st round because I want to come in and start running and not crawling. Howell gives me the best chance to hit the ground running. This team is not in rebuild but in update mode. This team can be easily in the playoffs next year if done right. 

[No Nonsense]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

If I am the GM, I wouldn't get a QB in the 1st round because I want to come in and start running and not crawling. Howell gives me the best chance to hit the ground running. This team is not in rebuild but in update mode. This team can be easily in the playoffs next year if done right. 

This team has holes all over the place. I know, we're gonna have a top 5 pick and multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks and over $90M in cap space, so we could be a lot better next year. But don't fool yourself into thinking that this is a quick fix. 
 

As for the QB, if our next GM AND coach think someone in the draft is a better option than Howell, they need to jump.  It's not necessarily about next year. It's about the long term future. 

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, zCommander said:

If I am the GM, I wouldn't get a QB in the 1st round because I want to come in and start running and not crawling. Howell gives me the best chance to hit the ground running. This team is not in rebuild but in update mode. This team can be easily in the playoffs next year if done right. 

That's your opinion but the gm may not have that opinion. They may look at this roster and say there's very little here and the team needs a complete rebuild.

 

The entire defense is replaceable and frankly so is the entire offense.  Even with they go with Sam, I think need a complete rebuild is needed.

 

 

The goal next year should be to build a team that is a consistent winner. If playoffs 

happens great.  You take the long term view and not a short term quick fix.

[Llevron]

5 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Exception rather than the rule. 

 

Others who shot up out of nowhere, got taken early and then flamed out include Zack Wilson, Trey Lance off the top of my head. There are countless others - I'll do more research when I have more time.

Most successful QBs are exceptions to the rule. The shooting up out of no where part has little to do with that truth. It’s just a hard position, that you really have to have everything going right around you to play well. Most dudes fail at it regardless of talent. That’s just what it is. 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, No Nonsense said:

This team has holes all over the place. I know, we're gonna have a top 5 pick and multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks and over $90M in cap space, so we could be a lot better next year. But don't fool yourself into thinking that this is a quick fix. 
 

As for the QB, if our next GM AND coach think someone in the draft is a better option than Howell, they need to jump.  It's not necessarily about next year. It's about the long term future. 

 

40 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

That's your opinion but the gm may not have that opinion. They may look at this roster and say there's very little here and the team needs a complete rebuild.

 

The entire defense is replaceable and frankly so is the entire offense.  Even with they go with Sam, I think need a complete rebuild is needed.

 

 

The goal next year should be to build a team that is a consistent winner. If playoffs 

happens great.  You take the long term view and not a short term quick fix.

 

There are some holes. I am not fooling myself. You really need to stand back and look at each game and see why we lost those said games. We have scored over 30 points in some of the games and that is with the current OL. You need LT and RT and add to the line. This can be done from draft and FA.

 

Del Rio just **** the bed and lost his job because of it. So again add a player or two or three and a DC who knows how to properly use the players to get the most out of them and scheme properly. The games we lost this year were because of the D and not really the O, except for two games. Also will need to get a better kicker as well. Plus you can trade down if another team is desperate and add to filling the holes. 

 

Like I said, if I was the GM this is what I would do and you will have to live with my decision.   As for long term future, I would build it around Howell as much as possible so he can be the franchise QB instead. 

[KDawg]

Again, I think there is some missed context in these conversations…

10 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

That's your opinion but the gm may not have that opinion. They may look at this roster and say there's very little here and the team needs a complete rebuild.

 

The entire defense is replaceable and frankly so is the entire offense.  Even with they go with Sam, I think need a complete rebuild is needed.

 

 

The goal next year should be to build a team that is a consistent winner. If playoffs 

happens great.  You take the long term view and not a short term quick fix.

“That’a your opinion but the GM may not have that opinion”.

 

This is very true. They may not. But again, they may.

 

What we’re doing here is talking about our opinions. We have no idea who the GM is or what they may want. We don’t even know how the rest of this season is going to play out.

 

I think it should be assumed that we are all talking about our opinions on this topic. 
 

I still haven’t totally decided my own opinion, let alone the opinion of someone who will run the team in 2 months that currently doesn’t exist on our staff.

[DiscoBob]

15 hours ago, RWJ said:

We have him on the cheap for the next couple of years.  If the new GM wants to go QB in the 1st round, then keep him on the team for the time being.  

 

I get it - as I said above, I'm not pushing to trade him.... but I'm still curious what people think an offer would look like. What sort of value does he hold?

[DJD2]

15 hours ago, zCommander said:

If I am the GM, I wouldn't get a QB in the 1st round because I want to come in and start running and not crawling. Howell gives me the best chance to hit the ground running. This team is not in rebuild but in update mode. This team can be easily in the playoffs next year if done right. 

This is the exact mindset that keeps this team in mediocre hell

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, RWJ said:

We have him on the cheap for the next couple of years.  If the new GM wants to go QB in the 1st round, then keep him on the team for the time being.  

 

If we draft a QB with our high first, we need to trade Howell ASAP.  The new regime needs to commit to whatever QB decision they make 100%, and keeping two starters means you're eventually going to have zero starters.  There is a reason the 9ers cut bait on Trey Lance and went all in on Purdy despite the investment they made in Lance.  There is a reason the Chiefs traded Alex Smith and the Eagles traded Wentz.

 

We can't have it both ways, we have to pick a direction and stick to it.  Keeping Howell would ensure a QB controversy the moment the other guy struggled, which will happen several times throughout his young career.  It would prevent the QB-HC marriage from forming.  Not to mention Howell's trade value doesn't go up by sitting on the bench.  It's either **** or get off the pot with Sam Howell this off-season, and a decision on his long term future here needs to be made or else the next regime is setting itself up for failure.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Maybe a Sunday off will let Sam Marino cool down his pick6 hand.

[Going Commando]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:07 PM, MartinC said:

Not sure I buy that. The QB knows where the WR is going to end with the motion. So he knows what side/progression/concept he’s working based on where the motion ends not where it starts. 

The motion helps disguise formation (and from that gives the D less time to process what is possibly coming based on down and distance and tendency) and also gives some man/zone tells based on how the D reacts.

 

It also helps you get a receiver a cleaner release if he’s on the move - harder to jam.

 

Edit - I guess the only downside I can see for a young QB is motion adds more verbiage to the play call - and a WCO if very wordy to start with. But I can’t see that being the reason to limit its use.

 

He's got a point about it changing the leverage reads though. You wouldn't be able to read leverage well until kind of a while after the snap, instead of getting a much firmer picture of it pre snap with a static release.  Those leverage reads are key to making your decisions on where to throw too.

 

Things that change the picture for the defense can be a double edged sword because they change the picture for you too.

[zCommander]

45 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

This is the exact mindset that keeps this team in mediocre hell

 

Ah, but since almost everyone is saying we will go with whatever the new GM decides. What if the new GM does exactly what I said? Are we all going to be on board with it and support it?

 

Obviously you are not since you feel that will be a mediocre move. But you will still need to live with that decision made by our GM regardless.

[88Comrade2000]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Ah, but since almost everyone is saying we will go with whatever the new GM decides. What if the new GM does exactly what I said? Are we all going to be on board with it and support it?

 

Obviously you are not since you feel that will be a mediocre move. But you will still need to live with that decision made by our GM regardless.

It all depends on the Gm and coach.  That will be the most important decision they make- QB.  Once they decide that, everything will flow from there.  They will also look at the roster and decide if there’s a full rebuild or not.

 

So, even if you disagree with the gms assessments; you will have to go along with it.

 

I think you have to take the long term view but doesn’t mean you can’t be competitive in the short term.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ah, but since almost everyone is saying we will go with whatever the new GM decides. What if the new GM does exactly what I said? Are we all going to be on board with it and support it?

 

Obviously you are not since you feel that will be a mediocre move. But you will still need to live with that decision made by our GM regardless.

 

Why would anyone ever blindly support a Washington Redskins/Commanders front office regime?

 

If the new regime picks Sam over Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels so be it.  But they need to go all in on that decision and be ready to extend him the following off-season.  If they pass on QB with this gift of a high pick in a special QB class, and then punt on extending Sam when second contract time comes and are stuck thinking QB in worse classes with worse picks, then I know I'll be 100% out on that regime.  They'll be getting themselves fired shortly after, and the Harris era will already be off to a dysfunctional start.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

If we draft a QB with our high first, we need to trade Howell ASAP.  The new regime needs to commit to whatever QB decision they make 100%, and keeping two starters means you're eventually going to have zero starters.  There is a reason the 9ers cut bait on Trey Lance and went all in on Purdy despite the investment they made in Lance.  There is a reason the Chiefs traded Alex Smith and the Eagles traded Wentz.

 

We can't have it both ways, we have to pick a direction and stick to it.  Keeping Howell would ensure a QB controversy the moment the other guy struggled, which will happen several times throughout his young career.  It would prevent the QB-HC marriage from forming.  Not to mention Howell's trade value doesn't go up by sitting on the bench.  It's either **** or get off the pot with Sam Howell this off-season, and a decision on his long term future here needs to be made or else the next regime is setting itself up for failure.

Yeah it is **** or get off the pot. It they move from Howell they would need to get a vet QB they are comfortable with and hang the for sale sound out to everyone pre-draft in hopes of getting the most bang for their bucks while the most QB needy teams would have interest.

 

It would be interesting to see what Howell could bring, but I must admit, I hope the keep him and build the yell out the OL, and bring one or two upgrades to the weapons. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by DWinzit

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Why would anyone ever blindly support a Washington Redskins/Commanders front office regime?

 

If the new regime picks Sam over Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels so be it.  But they need to go all in on that decision and be ready to extend him the following off-season.  If they pass on QB with this gift of a high pick in a special QB class, and then punt on extending Sam when second contract time comes and are stuck thinking QB in worse classes with worse picks, then I know I'll be 100% out on that regime.  They'll be getting themselves fired shortly after, and the Harris era will already be off to a dysfunctional start.

I completely agree. All of this, “I’ll support the GM no matter what!” talk is so odd to me. We don’t even know who it’ll be but we’re going to support him.

 

To be fair, I think some of the people that are in that ballpark are more so just willing to give benefit of the doubt.

 

I, however, am not. I don’t even have to agree… I just want to see some semblance of a plan… but I will never blind support any regime.

Edited December 10, 2023 by KDawg

[method man]

Comp for Sam will tie to how he finishes this year. If he pulls off another stellar game or two in these last 4, the Raiders, Bucs, Vikings or Saints may trade a second or third for him but most teams are probably going to hold their picks and take their own guy in this class

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I completely agree. All of this, “I’ll support the GM no matter what!” talk is so odd to me. We don’t even know who it’ll be but we’re going to support him.

 

To be fair, I think some of the people that are in that ballpark are more so just willing to give benefit of the doubt.

 

I, however, am not. I don’t even have to agree… I just want to see some

semblance of a plan… but I will never blind support any regime.

Exactly.

 

The Bears hired a "hot shot" GM out of the KC Chiefs organization who has learned under Veach and Reid, who had full authority to pick a coach.

 

How's that working out for them?

 

The GM might scapegoat the coach (one of the reasons I deplore the GM hires coach model even though everybody seems to love it on this board), and possibly hire another coach.  They could have moved on from Fields, they didn't.  

 

They traded a high 2nd for Sweat.

 

This fanbase believes "hire a GM and empower him" is the magic bullet and if you just do that, then everything is going to be fine. Just because we haven't had a true GM in 30 years.  But it's not a magic bullet.  It MIGHT work.  It also might not.  We'll see.  

 

Hell, the last true GM we had was a complete idiot.  And I'm not talking about Bruce Allen.  Or Vinny Cerato.  I'm talking about Charley Casserly.  The only think Casserly ever won as a GM was with Gibbs and Beathard's team.  When he had to do it himself, the roster was in shambles.  He hired Norv.  Then he took over the expansion Texans and did a terrible job.  

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[lovemaskins]

^^ I agree VoR, the best organizations have a synergy, a collaborative approach. For instance, Lynch / Shanahan work because they’ve got a genius play caller and the personnel to match. Plus it helps that Shanahans system is QB friendly. That makes Lynch’s job as GM a helluva lot easier than most teams.  
 

The best organizations have a unified top down approach where everyone’s voice is heard and evidence based decisions are priority. From the scouting department to the training staff to the coach, GM, and owner. And QB is the key, without the QB it really doesn’t matter.  That’s why we’re split as fans about Howell, because he feels like a bird in the hand but the other half wants the 2 birds in the bush. I’ve seen enough to know I’ve already caught a pretty bird… I don’t need a bird of paradise to be happy after the last 30 years of QB purgatory.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

 

The best organizations have a unified top down approach where everyone’s voice is heard and evidence based decisions are priority. From the scouting department to the training staff to the coach, GM, and owner. And QB is the key, without the QB it really doesn’t matter.  That’s why we’re split as fans about Howell, because he feels like a bird in the hand but the other half wants the 2 birds in the bush. I’ve seen enough to know I’ve already caught a pretty bird… I don’t need a bird of paradise to be happy after the last 30 years of QB purgatory.

Agreed 100%. Wnatever direction we go in I just want EVERYONE on the same page from the get go. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

23 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Agreed 100%. Wnatever direction we go in I just want EVERYONE on the same page from the get go. 

100% 

 

This is why this season was always doomed. 

[MrJL]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Agreed 100%. Wnatever direction we go in I just want EVERYONE on the same page from the get go. 

 

sure, I just hope we get a new coach who can look at we've got and say he's got a QB he can work with

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

The GM might not fancy Howell, in which case it’s unlikely we’ll be back in the Top 5 of the draft again any time soon so the compensation down the road to get what they deem to be QB1 would be more extortionate than it would be this time round, take your man and begin to build around him.

[Koolblue13]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:49 PM, KDawg said:

Again, I think most agree that if there is an eliteQB prospect that the team feels is a can’t miss guy, you take him.

 

The debate here isn’t really centered on that.

 

It’s 1) is there a guy that IS an elite prospect? The media sure thinks so. I think maybe Jayden Daniels. I’m not sold on Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.

 

2) What is the best usage of assets for this team’s growth?

 

 

Bro, I've been saying that Daniels floor is 4 and now I'm starting to think he jumps Maye and Maye might drop a small amount (top 6/7)