The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

If we go top 4 I pray we get a top LT or trade down

if Marvin Harrison Jr. falls there, I can’t pass him up. Maybe the best WR prospect in the last 10 years. Bigger than Jamar Chase. 
 

Id use FA and the other high picks to go O line. But if Harrison isn’t there definitely O line for me.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I really want to see Howell with 2 things:

 

1. An OL that isn't pushed backwards immediately.  And one which is better coached.  Because something's not right with the coaching (Position coaching specifically) there.  They got rid of Masko, couldn't hire a replacement, and it's been way too many people not knowing what they are doing.

 

2. A defense which isn't a threat to give up 40 points every game.  

 

I have a significant amount of patience with QBs as they are developing.  It's the hardest position in sports. In my 40 years of watching the NFL, there are only a handful of guys who came in and have had immediate success, and most of those actually sat for a bit.  Mahomes obviously is the latest.  Luck had immediate success.  Griffin, but the * by that is it was a PERFECT offense for him conceived by offensive geniuses.  I guess you have to put Brady and Big Ben in there, both had immediate success, but neither were asked to do much their first year starting.  There are probably a few others, but most of the time, young QBs take a year or two to figure things out.

 

I think Sam has shown plenty to deserve the patience, and not to freak out about getting another QB.  But as @Skinsinparadise said above, if we end up with the #1 or #2 pick, we'll almost certainly be picking a QB, and that's fine.  

 

We need to dramatically address OL and TE on offense.  Definitely need a WR to replace Samuel. And a RB to replace Gibson.  We could use probably 5-6 new starters on offense.  

 

Literally 3 players on defense could still be here with a prominent role by the end of March: Allen, Payne and Davis.  Curl is a FA.  Fuller is a FA.  That's your best 5 defensive players.  I guess Forbes, Butler and Martin will be here, but doing what, who knows.  They might just become the new grounds keeping crew.  

 

They probably need to sign 15-20 new defensive players after Ron screwed up the side of the ball he put all his eggs in.  It's just insane they dedicated as many resources to the defensive side of the ball and it still is absolutely horrendous.  

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

if Marvin Harrison Jr. falls there, I can’t pass him up. Maybe the best WR prospect in the last 10 years. Bigger than Jamar Chase. 
 

Id use FA and the other high picks to go O line. But if Harrison isn’t there definitely O line for me.

 

I doubt he falls there though. I think he's going 3. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

if Marvin Harrison Jr. falls there, I can’t pass him up. Maybe the best WR prospect in the last 10 years. Bigger than Jamar Chase. 
 

Id use FA and the other high picks to go O line. But if Harrison isn’t there definitely O line for me.

 

I think a smart FO (which I'm assuming we're going to have at least a competent one) would know if there's a good chance they could get Junior.  If so, they have to do everything possible to grab top-end FAs on the OL to put them in position to do whatever they want to do with the first pick of the draft. Spend some money.  I dunno.  

 

But they can't go in with Leno/Wylie as answers at Tackle.  Or Charles/Paul at LG.  And they need a backup plan at C.  RG might be ok.  

 

What a debacle. 

14 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Not saying that's a knock on Herbert but we know that Ben and Howell have a relationship,

I missed this or didn't connect the dots.  What's the relationship between Ben and Howell? (I hope it's not super obvious and I don't look like an idiot for asking)

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

While I think this is ultimately a moot discussion, the wildcard for me is the new GM.  Do they want to come in and make a splashy move via the draft?  If so, I could see a trading up scenario.  

I hear you but I don’t get why some assume they teams would trade the picks?

 

Prospects like Drake and Caleb aren’t traded away typically. I think the odds are like 1 percent that they’d deal the picks. So it feels like a fantasy style conversation with no meat to it. 

 

I recall hearing for example at the time Cindy wasn’t trading away the rights to Burrow at any price. Ditto the Colts with Luck. Ditto Jax with Lawrence.

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I doubt he falls there though. I think he's going 3. 

I think so too unless Daniels and Penix keep burning it up and let’s say the Giants or whomever is there insist on a QB.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I hear you but I don’t get why some assume they teams would trade the picks?

 

It's highly unlikely, but suppose the Bears or Cardinals aren't ready to move on from Fields or Murray...Bears also have that #4 pick that they could deal as well.  

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I hear you but I don’t get why some assume they teams would trade the picks?

 

Prospects like Drake and Caleb aren’t traded away typically. I think the odds are like 1 percent that they’d deal the picks. So it feels like a fantasy style conversation with no meat to it. 

 

I recall hearing for example at the time Cindy wasn’t trading away the rights to Burrow at any price. Ditto the Colts with Luck. Ditto Jax with Lawrence.

I think so too unless Daniels and Penix keep burning it up and let’s say the Giants or whomever is there insist on a QB.

Thats a possibility. Then it becomes a thing of Harrison (who I'd want) vs trying to get Fashanu or Alt to sure up our OL later in the top 10 and another top WR. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's highly unlikely, but suppose the Bears or Cardinals aren't ready to move on from Fields or Murray...Bears also have that #4 pick that they could deal as well.  

Maybe he didn’t know what he was talking about but as I mentioned I listened to a Bears reporter recently say he hears the Bears 100 percent will go QB with a top pick. I guess will see. And plenty of rumblings that the Cards ditto.

 

It would be likely job suicide for those GMs to pass over QBs with that level pedigree.

 

I am thinking right now anyone of us have a better chance starting at QB next year here than Caleb or Drake unless they finish with a top 2 pick

 

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Thats a possibility. Then it becomes a thing of Harrison (who I'd want) vs trying to get Fashanu or Alt to sure up our OL later in the top 10 and another top WR. 

right now it feels 50 50 to me because of the QB needy teams in that likely range of the pick.

 

2 weeks ago I felt differently. Now I think there is a shot he’s there 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Do they want to come in and make a splashy move via the draft? 

Then I want no part of this GM

[Thinking Skins]

42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think a smart FO (which I'm assuming we're going to have at least a competent one) would know if there's a good chance they could get Junior.  If so, they have to do everything possible to grab top-end FAs on the OL to put them in position to do whatever they want to do with the first pick of the draft. Spend some money.  I dunno.  

 

But they can't go in with Leno/Wylie as answers at Tackle.  Or Charles/Paul at LG.  And they need a backup plan at C.  RG might be ok.  

 

What a debacle. 

I missed this or didn't connect the dots.  What's the relationship between Ben and Howell? (I hope it's not super obvious and I don't look like an idiot for asking)

Ben Johnson went to UNC. So from what I hear they talk. I'm not in that circle so I don't know how often. There are photos of them together, but the only ones I've seen are at the Senior Bowl. That makes sense because otherwise it might make it look like they were doing something like recruting or whatever its called in the pros. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Warhead36]

Soooo glad we didn't take Pickett. He is awful and it was obvious he'd suck, or basically be league average AT BEST, right from the get go.

 

Goes to show you even smart organizations like the Steelers can lose their minds when it comes to QB.

[FootballZombie]

Call me old fashioned and superstitious but I could never pick up a QB named Pickett or a K named Blewitt.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stromberg had a good camp.  I know Ron didn't want to start a rookie center and oddly drafted him to stash for the future in a win now season.  But I think there is a good chance he's the guy.  LG though to me has no one.  

 

 

on a different note, Mike Jones has been down on Howell from the jump.  So him gloating about an off game is on point for him

 

It's a crap take. The accurate take which was posted earlier by the Crying Jordan Meme dude is that "we just don't know,". He's had great games, good games, and ---- games (oddly all but one against ---- teams which makes for an interesting final 6 games of the year), sometimes in the same game. we've got 6 more games worth of data coming, most against good or league average defenses the rest of the way. No cupcake defenses left on the schedule. After that we'll have 18 games to look at if he stays healthy. That should be enough to make a coherent decision about what to do at QB w/the draft. The reality is, the Rams winning made them more likely to play to win against us, for now anyway, the Jets losing but possibly moving on from their idiotic decision to stick with Wilson, could help or hurt them, Miami and the Cowboys and the Niners likely play to win, leaving us probably on target to finish with between 5 and 7 wins, which should slot us between 6 and 12. Trade up zone for a QB, and the perfect zone to nab one of the top 2-3 OL's. Will be an interesting decision for the next GM/F.O. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Too bad for Pickett that he doesn’t get an opportunity to play Del Rio and the gang to get off the snide.

 

I feel like Sam would throw for 600 yards against this D.  He might be a little confused at first wondering why there’s so many open options at his disposal.

[Thinking Skins]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

right now it feels 50 50 to me because of the QB needy teams in that likely range of the pick.

 

2 weeks ago I felt differently. Now I think there is a shot he’s there 

I'm so out of the draft talk. I gave this stuff up years ago when it got to be frstrating to watch Snyder pic Haskins (I think thats the last year I looked) over Sweat. I still supported him but all my metrics said he wouldn't be the guy. And supposedly he was in the background after that but i was done believing because we had heard the same thing before. Now I just have less time so I can't build draft profiles and excel spredsheets like I used to. But I can run some of my old models and some of my analytics / heuristics that I know in my mind and use them to look at some of the prospects and see if I would take them. 

 

Right now though I'm glad we don't have to take a QB (at least I think we don't) because that's a roller coaster ride. These guys are so hard to predict. Even with the loss yesterday and the pic six to seal it, i thought Sam showed a lot of grit. Both TDs were totally or partialy on him. We got the ball to our own 47 and fumbled, to our own 34 and fumbled, and to their 35 and fumbled. Then to their 38 and the ball was intercepted. And we STILL almost won. Its very hard to digest, especially when you realize that those 6 points win the game. but when you look at the bigger picture and say that 4 of the 6 turnovers were by the young guys, and the other 2 probably wont be here next year. 

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's highly unlikely, but suppose the Bears or Cardinals aren't ready to move on from Fields or Murray...Bears also have that #4 pick that they could deal as well.  

 

I really have a tough time seeing the Bears passing on Caleb Williams

 

If the Cards are at #2, I think they would draft QB, but I could also see them trading down.  First, Maye isn't seen as quite the prospect Williams is and second it would probably depend on the hall, but if they could say trade down to 3 and pick up two extra first rounders or something, then yeah I think they could live with Murray

[Redskins 2021]

 I would forget Qb we will be picking to high. We will be picking no higher then 5.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's highly unlikely, but suppose the Bears or Cardinals aren't ready to move on from Fields or Murray...Bears also have that #4 pick that they could deal as well.  

What if the new GM is enamored with one of the college QB's and takes offers for Howell? What is Howell's value? Is he worth a #1 pick to a team like Seattle? Maybe Minnesota makes an offer for Howell? Atlanta? 

I'm not ready to move on from Howell but what is his worth should the new GM find himself in a position to A). draft a QB or B). trade up to grab a QB? 

[Llevron]

28 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Call me old fashioned and superstitious but I could never pick up a QB named Pickett or a K named Blewitt.

I never would have noticed that if you didn’t say it lol

[Redskins 2021]

 

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

What if the new GM is enamored with one of the college QB's and takes offers for Howell? What is Howell's value? Is he worth a #1 pick to a team like Seattle? Maybe Minnesota makes an offer for Howell? Atlanta? 

I'm not ready to move on from Howell but what is his worth should the new GM find himself in a position to A). draft a QB or B). trade up to grab a QB? 

 It would be interesting to know what the value of Howell would?  I wonder how the rest of the league views him?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

What if the new GM is enamored with one of the college QB's and takes offers for Howell? What is Howell's value? Is he worth a #1 pick to a team like Seattle? Maybe Minnesota makes an offer for Howell? Atlanta? 

I'm not ready to move on from Howell but what is his worth should the new GM find himself in a position to A). draft a QB or B). trade up to grab a QB? 

Nobody is trading a 1 for Howell.

 

In fact, his value likely decreases the more we play hopeless football, and the performances get worse.

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Soooo glad we didn't take Pickett. He is awful and it was obvious he'd suck, or basically be league average AT BEST, right from the get go.

 

Goes to show you even smart organizations like the Steelers can lose their minds when it comes to QB.

Yeah, but they waited until the 20th pick in the first round to lose their mind.

 

I'll give you another smart organization which lost it's mind with a QB: The Eagles traded UP to get Wentz at #2.  Which looked great for a bit and then collapsed completely.  Which could have been injury related, not sure.  But that one didn't work out for sure.  

 

Patriots also grabbed Mac Jones.  There more than a few people here who wanted Jones.

 

49ers probably the worst offender recently when they traded up to get Lance.  That worked out so well he's the backup in Dallas before the end of his 4th year.  

 

I've said this before, I'll say it again: hitting on a QB is 20% evaluation and 80% dumb luck.  

 

Literally NOBODY could have seen the disparity between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning being as wide as it turned out.  There was even talk of the Colts taking Leaf #1 overall.  BObby Beathard, yeah THAT Bobby Beathard, engineered one of the worst trades in NFL history to move up to get Leaf.  

 

Mahomes went at 10 behind Mitch Freaking Trubisky (went #2)  in 2017.  Do you know who went #10 the next year?  Josh Rosen.  Baker Baker the Touchdown Maker went #1 to the Browns, Darnold #3 to the Jets, Josh Allen at #7 to the Bills (who at that point weren't exactly a good organization), and then Josh Rosen to the Cards at 10.

 

There is almost no way to predict which QB is going to become Mahomes or Allen, or Rosen, Trubisky or Darnold.  

 

You do all the work, look at all the tape, interview the hell out of guys, and then pray to God almighty that you didn't just pick the next Jamarcus Russell with the #1 overall pick, and instead got Andrew Luck.  

 

Which is why I think you give Howell at least another year before going to that well. Because while I'd argue we're due for good luck, there is no guarantee even with the #1 overall pick you're going to hit on the QB.  Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield were both #1 #1's.  So was Burrow.  One has lived up to the draft status, 2 have not.  (And I hope Burrow's hand/wrist injury isn't serious enough to derail his career.) 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

What if the new GM is enamored with one of the college QB's and takes offers for Howell? What is Howell's value? Is he worth a #1 pick to a team like Seattle? Maybe Minnesota makes an offer for Howell? Atlanta? 

I'm not ready to move on from Howell but what is his worth should the new GM find himself in a position to A). draft a QB or B). trade up to grab a QB? 

It depends on how he ends the season.  

 

If he plays 5 more games like today, he's going to be worth probably a 3rd or 4th as a guy who is seen as a bridge guy to the next guy on a cheap contract.

 

If he plays 5 more games like he played the last 3?  He's a #1 pick + for sure.

 

So, we'll see.

 

The challenge is he's got some REALLY tough defenses ahead of him and a REALLY REALLY bad OL in front of him, and an OC that doesn't seem to exactly know how to scheme around the OL deficiency, and is pressing.  

 

Which could cause the entire offense to go in the crapper.

 

Honestly, if we get blown out in Dallas and the offense doesn't look good, Sam should mysteriously get a high ankle sprain and sit out the remainder of the season.  And then the new GM can figure out what to do with him from there.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:.

 

 

They probably need to sign 15-20 new defensive players after Ron screwed up the side of the ball he put all his eggs in.  It's just insane they dedicated as many resources to the defensive side of the ball and it still is absolutely horrendous.  

Spending all those resources on the defense yet it sucks. They are ranked now dead last on points given up. And taking a good o line and dismantling it to make it a bad one .

 

That’s Ron’s legacy with personnel