The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Jumbo]

3 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

This thread has lost its collective minds. So bc the giants have our number and won a playoff game, we can’t or shouldn’t comment on what signing Daniel Jones to a crazy cap number would mean for building out the rest of their roster? That doesn’t mean that we’re better than them or that we don’t wish we had someone even as capable as DJ. Strange. 

  

I'm going to need you to not be commenting on posters who are commenting on what we should not be commenting on as it violates rule 47's clause on not-commenting comments.

 

Oh wait, my bad. That's Gibbs' rule 47, not ES's.

[fearlessNelms]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Jones has basically been the same guy in the NFL that he was in college. Good, but not really great at anything. Very serviceable, but not a game changer.

 

Just because he's big and can run and is coached by the same guy as Josh Allen doesn't mean he's magically going to turn into anything even close to the passer that Allen is, and I haven't seen any indications this season that he will. He also doesn't have anything close to Allen's arm. I'd say Jones is middle of the road in regards to arm strength.

 

That's like saying that any QB with a big arm, good mobility, and who is coached by Andy Reid will turn into Mahomes.

Again, we'll see. If Jones gets a receiver like Diggs- which he has nobody remotely close- that is obviously only going to help. And coaching matters. Andy Reid made Donavan McNabb and Alex Smith look like Hall of Famers, so to think that Daboll doesn't make a huge difference for Jones development and career is something I completely disagree with. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Again, we'll see. If Jones gets a receiver like Diggs- which he has nobody remotely close- that is obviously only going to help. And coaching matters. Andy Reid made Donavan McNabb and Alex Smith look like Hall of Famers, so to think that Daboll doesn't make a huge difference for Jones development and career is something I completely disagree with. 

 

There's a difference between making a QB better by getting a system in place that plays to his strengths and turning a mediocre QB into a top 3 All-Pro passer.

 

Having a guy like Diggs isn't going to turn Jones from a ~15 TD guy into a ~40 TD guy.

 

This is just such an odd take. I get people being a bit higher on Jones this season than last. I can understand the viewpoint of him potentially being worth a good contract extension. But I'm completely flabbergasted by the idea that he's going to magically turn into Josh Allen because he has the same coach, when there are zero indications of him being able to play anywhere close to that level as a passer.

[NickyJ]

14 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

  

I'm going to need you to not be commenting on posters who are commenting on what we should not be commenting on as it violates rule 47's clause on not-commenting comments.

 

Oh wait, my bad. That's Gibbs' rule 47, not ES's.

 

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Haha the Giants have a legit franchise QB and will pay him like it. What a bunch of assholes.

 

Glad we aren't them, right everyone?  

 

****ing people 

[Jumbo]

"Jumbo has stopped typing and is loading a bowl and looking for his Grey Panther shirt to wear to WalMart"

[fearlessNelms]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

There's a difference between making a QB better by getting a system in place that plays to his strengths and turning a mediocre QB into a top 3 All-Pro passer.

 

Having a guy like Diggs isn't going to turn Jones from a ~15 TD guy into a ~40 TD guy.

 

This is just such an odd take. I get people being a bit higher on Jones this season than last. I can understand the viewpoint of him potentially being worth a good contract extension. But I'm completely flabbergasted by the idea that he's going to magically turn into Josh Allen because he has the same coach, when there are zero indications of him being able to play anywhere close to that level as a passer.

Okay, you think he's mediocre and I think he's on his way to being very good. I like what I see in him and it's not just because of the coach. He's got talent and a good coach is going to get the most out of that talent. We'll see. Here's to hoping I'm wrong and Jones stinks up the league in the upcoming years. 

[NewCliche21]

21 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

  

I'm going to need you to not be commenting on posters who are commenting on what we should not be commenting on as it violates rule 47's clause on not-commenting comments.

 

Oh wait, my bad. That's Gibbs' rule 47, not ES's.

 

I knew I had "made it" with my now-wife when I changed her association of Gibbs from Mark Harmon to Joe Gibbs.

[shemp nixon]

36 minutes ago, redskinss said:

He's not under 6 ft, he's just under 6'1 which is still on the shorter side for the position but not quite as bad as 5'11.

That said with all the work that goes into evaluation every year It seems crazy to think that someone would be judged on the rest of the quarterbacks to come out that year.

 

 

According to Keim,  Howell is about the same height as Heinicke. He said this on on of his pods.

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

According to Keim,  Howell is about the same height as Heinicke. He said this on on of his pods.

Luckily this is a situation where we have official measurements and don’t need to rely on any one person’s eye test, right? 

[mistertim]

Howell measured in at 6'0 5/8" and 218lbs at the combine. We have no clue what Heinicke's real height is since he didn't participate in the combine.

Edited January 16, 2023 by mistertim

[KDawg]

Let’s have a real discussion, though. 
 

Daniel Jones is a decent QB with tools and a system that now fits him. He’s not Josh Allen but he’s also not a joke that deserves less respect than Taylor Heinicke.

 

Looking at current NFL contracts, 14 guys are making $30M and over (I think spotrac includes bonuses in salary). That 14 includes Wentz, Goff, Murray, Cousins, Tannehill, Ryan, Stafford, Prescott, Wilson and Watson.

 

I’m not naming Mahomes or Allen or those kind of guys because Jones doesn’t belong in the same convo. 
 

I’d take Jones over Wentz, Murray, Tannehill, Ryan, Stafford (at this point), Wilson and Watson. Maybe Dak but probably not.

 

The fifteenth ranked guy is Brady who takes lower pay and is slowing down. 
 

Then it’s all rookies and journeymen. 

You have to pay even decent quarterback play. If you don’t you get stuck with Taylor Heinicke as your primary quarterback. 
 

I wouldn’t bat a single eye at paying DJ 30-35M. 40? Yeah. That’s pushing it but still less than Wilson, Watson and Murray. 
 

We don’t know what the Giants do with this. They could franchise tag him and give him the Cousins treatment for a year or two as well.

 

The exclusive tag is $45M. That’s too much.

 

The non-exclusive tag is $34M. And no one is giving up two firsts for DJ. So they have options beyond a long term $42M/aav

[Skinsinparadise]

@Koolblue13 is going to need to retitle this thread a bit and somehow incorporate Daniel Jones.  

 

I am sadly VERY familiar with Daniel Jones. Since my wife among others among my in-laws are Giant fans, I am exposed to that team more than I'd like.  For whatever reason at least give or take 50-75% of our games aren't run the same time as the Giants over the years, seemed like more overlap this year than most.  So I'd guess I've watched at least 50% of Daniel Jones games for his full career.  And i watched all I could of his Duke career for the draft thread back in the day,  And I read the NY sports pages almost every day, as a Yankee fan, and I read my share of Giants stories in the process.

 

It doesn't make me an expert but i am a bit more confident talking about the Giants and Dolphins aside from our team compared to other teams. 

 

Here's my definitive take on Daniel Jones.  All of this is 100% true and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. 

 

Before this seeason:

A.  He's an average passer.

B.  Above average runner

C.  "meh" in clutch situations

D. A turnover machine until this season

E.  He WAS below average QB on the aggregate up until this season because of the turnovers IMO.

 

This season, Daboll turned things around with Jones by somehow neutrailizing his weaknesses and amped up the running.

 

A.  He's still IMO just an average passer.  

B.  They let him loose as a runner in a big way which makes him more danagerous as a passer because its tough to play man, etc against him without him burning you

C.  He was good in the clutch this season

D.  The turnovers were mitigated

E.  He was above average on the aggregate.

 

Is this the new Daniel Jones?  Or was that a one off?  Or is it somewhere in between?  Daniel Jones IMO went from a hard pass if asked If I'd like him here before this season.  NY papers said the same as to what the NY Giants FO thought too of him -- that's obvious considering they didn't pick up his 5th year.  Now, I'd take him and I said that a couple of months ago. 

 

Now would i pay Daniel Jones 40 million plus.  Nope.  Would I like the Giants to pay him that?  You bet.  Look, I like Derek Carr but i am not paying him 40 million.  But if the Giants get him in the 20s, I think its a good get for them.  

 

As for the Giants owning us, its been the case for most of 20 some odd years, its wild.  It doesn't matter if they are good or bad, they have our number with or without Daniel Jones.  Heck I bet they would beat us with Tyrod Taylor.  I recall two ex-Redskins player said once its part of the Giants culture, they expect to beat Washington. 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

Oh wait, my bad. That's Gibbs' rule 47, not ES's.

I thought Gibbs rule 47 was when running the ball, run the counter trey.

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Howell measured in at 6'0 5/8" and 218lbs at the combine. We have no clue what Heinicke's real height is since he didn't participate in the combine.

 Howell is head and shoulders above Heinickie when throwing the ball. Howell recorded the hardest throw at the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine, clocking a 59-MPH pass.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Someone needs to start a "Laugh At The Giants While You Still Can" thread lol...

 

 

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

 

 Howell is head and shoulders above Heinickie when throwing the ball. Howell recorded the hardest throw at the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine, clocking a 59-MPH pass.

 

I mean...I don't disagree with any of that, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted. I was just giving info since people were talking about his height.

 

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Koolblue13 is going to need to retitle this thread a bit and somehow incorporate Daniel Jones.  

 

I am sadly VERY familiar with Daniel Jones. Since my wife among others among my in-laws are Giant fans, I am exposed to that team more than I'd like.  For whatever reason at least give or take 50-75% of our games aren't run the same time as the Giants over the years, seemed like more overlap this year than most.  So I'd guess I've watched at least 50% of Daniel Jones games for his full career.  And i watched all I could of his Duke career for the draft thread back in the day,  And I read the NY sports pages almost every day, as a Yankee fan, and I read my share of Giants stories in the process.

 

It doesn't make me an expert but i am a bit more confident talking about the Giants and Dolphins aside from our team compared to other teams. 

 

Here's my definitive take on Daniel Jones.  All of this is 100% true and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. 

 

Before this seeason:

A.  He's an average passer.

B.  Above average runner

C.  "meh" in clutch situations

D. A turnover machine until this season

E.  He WAS below average QB on the aggregate up until this season because of the turnovers IMO.

 

This season, Daboll turned things around with Jones by somehow neutrailizing his weaknesses and amped up the running.

 

A.  He's still IMO just an average passer.  

B.  They let him loose as a runner in a big way which makes him more danagerous as a passer because its tough to play man, etc against him without him burning you

C.  He was good in the clutch this season

D.  The turnovers were mitigated

E.  He was above average on the aggregate.

 

Is this the new Daniel Jones?  Or was that a one off?  Or is it somewhere in between?  Daniel Jones IMO went from a hard pass if asked If I'd like him here before this season.  NY papers said the same as to what the NY Giants FO thought too of him -- that's obvious considering they didn't pick up his 5th year.  Now, I'd take him and I said that a couple of months ago. 

 

Now would i pay Daniel Jones 40 million plus.  Nope.  Would I like the Giants to pay him that?  You bet.  Look, I like Derek Carr but i am not paying him 40 million.  But if the Giants get him in the 20s, I think its a good get for them.  

 

As for the Giants owning us, its been the case for most of 20 some odd years, its wild.  It doesn't matter if they are good or bad, they have our number with or without Daniel Jones.  Heck I bet they would beat us with Tyrod Taylor.  I recall two ex-Redskins player said once its part of the Giants culture, they expect to beat Washington. 

 

 

Agree with pretty much all of this, though I'd say he went more from below average to average. But that's just quibbling over semantics.

 

I also have some friends and family members who are Giants fans so I watched some of their other games this season as well. I think their OC structured their offense well and he used DJ's ability to run in order to set up an easier passing system. They also finally had a healthy Barkley again. They used that and play action a lot to get him plenty of pretty high percentage passes, which IMO was the biggest factor in cutting down the turnovers. But he's still a pretty "meh" passer in general, and that hasn't really changed.

 

I'd take him as well, depending on the cost. I'd certainly take him over Heinicke or Wentz. I think he's a middle of the road QB. But, like you, I'd never consider giving him $40+ million per year or even $30+. In the 20s I'd be fine with.

 

I guess it all depends on what he asks for. Having a playoff win under his belt will probably be used as leverage in the new contract. If he asks for a top 3 or even top 5 contract, I'd absolutely balk if I'm the Giants. If he asks for something more reasonable then they'll probably go for it and try to build up a team around him vs having to start all over again at the position.

Edited January 16, 2023 by mistertim

[Jumbo]

****ing got thrown out of Walmart.

 

"Greeters" my ass. "Haters" is more like it.

 

And Grey Panthers are not terrorists nor are my ammo belts anything more than a fashion accessory.

 

[RVAskins]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I mean...I don't disagree with any of that, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted. I was just giving info since people were talking about his height.

 

 

I was just making a point that he has a heck of an arm and piggybacked on your post.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

****ing got thrown out of Walmart.

 

"Greeters" my ass. "Haters" is more like it.

 

And Grey Panthers are not terrorists nor are my ammo belts anything more than a fashion accessory.

 

 

Dude, I told you to stop doing this **** in there.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I mean...I don't disagree with any of that, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I posted. I was just giving info since people were talking about his height.

 

 

Agree with pretty much all of this, though I'd say he went more from below average to average. But that's just quibbling over semantics.

 

I also have some friends and family members who are Giants fans so I watched some of their other games this season as well. I think their OC structured their offense well and he used DJ's ability to run in order to set up an easier passing system. They also finally had a healthy Barkley again. They used that and play action a lot to get him plenty of pretty high percentage passes, which IMO was the biggest factor in cutting down the turnovers. But he's still a pretty "meh" passer in general, and that hasn't really changed.

 

I'd take him as well, depending on the cost. I'd certainly take him over Heinicke or Wentz. I think he's a middle of the road QB. But, like you, I'd never consider giving him $40+ million per year or even $30+. In the 20s I'd be fine with.

 

I guess it all depends on what he asks for. Having a playoff win under his belt will probably be used as leverage in the new contract. If he asks for a top 3 or even top 5 contract, I'd absolutely balk if I'm the Giants. If he asks for something more reasonable then they'll probably go for it and try to build up a team around him vs having to start all over again at the position.

 

Their offense like ours is more on the shoulders of the RB.  

 

They smoked Minnesota's defense.  They smoked Minnesota's defense the first time they played them, too.  I watched that game as well.  Daniel Jones was as good as it gets in both games.

 

But I think as Commander fans we might not appreciate how bad the Vikings defense is because they thwarted Heinicke and our offense.  But the Vikings were a hot mess against just about everyone else.

 

I still think Jones is just an average passer but an above average runner.  But the Vikings made heck Mac Jones, Mike White look like John Elway.   So I take yesterday with a grain of salt.

 

What i appreciate the most about Daniel Jones is he's a tough and gutsy player including as a runner.   He was like that in Duke, too.   And Sam Howell is the same way.  So watching the game yesterday it actually made me jazzed about Howell some more because if I had to pick the top thing I like about Jones its his toughness and vision as a runner.  Howell IMO has those same qualities.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[The Rook]

2 hours ago, RVAskins said:

I thought Gibbs rule 47 was when running the ball, run the counter trey.

 

Pretty sure that was rule #44. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Strong arm indeed, I think generational arm takes it a bit far but this is a good display that from a mobility standpoint, this dude isn't far off from Daniel Jones.

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[rdskns42]

you people a like a bunch of toddlers wanting a new toy , sad ! we have a good qb but he is still growing but hell throw him away just like all the rest so he can get on a new team and come back and kick our ass like all the rest do ! wake up , the fact that our o-line played max protect all year and still had a ton of issues should be where you are focusing not the qb , if we had a better o-line the fumble's in the giants game would not have been there, when the line gave us time the only poor performance came from Wentz ! so go ahead and boo hoo some more about the qb , remember rex groosman  we could be heading that way again because they are not developing what we have , rally behind our good players and quit your ****in !!!!!!

[method man]

I think Jones ultimately lands at a $35M AAV (around that franchise tag number) and ahead of the $33M AAV Kirk signed for 2 years ago.
 

Separately, Barkley is going to get an AAV between $12M and $13M (that is where backs 4-8 are at in terms of salary.
 

They have about $51M in cap room and get another $7M more after letting Golladay go. 

 

Given their situation, I just don’t see them lapping us as Philly did between 2020 and this season
 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, rdskns42 said:

you people a like a bunch of toddlers wanting a new toy , sad ! we have a good qb but he is still growing but hell throw him away just like all the rest so he can get on a new team and come back and kick our ass like all the rest do ! wake up , the fact that our o-line played max protect all year and still had a ton of issues should be where you are focusing not the qb , if we had a better o-line the fumble's in the giants game would not have been there, when the line gave us time the only poor performance came from Wentz ! so go ahead and boo hoo some more about the qb , remember rex groosman  we could be heading that way again because they are not developing what we have , rally behind our good players and quit your ****in !!!!!!

What?

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

What?

 

Huffing paint is all ****s and giggles until you try to communicate with the normals.