The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HigSkin]

full Howell interview, really good guy.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Heinicke isn’t successful. 

 

I am not a big Doc Walker guy at least in the context of his anaylsis.  But he said something today that i said weeks ago -- that is, this Qb actually will keep the ball on a RO play and is willing to use his legs, unlike Taylor, and that alone is a game changer. 

 

For anyone who watched much of Howell in college, obviously you included, it seemed obvious as heck that just Howell's running ability alone would improve this offense and help the offensive line. 

 

As for Taylor, i am with you if Turner goes, i'd say goodbye to him.

 

Just as a reminder the Cowboys owned Taylor.    

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mojo said:

Maybe the awful play caller you want fired plays a role in that?

He didn’t help. But Heinicke was as “good” as he was because he knew Turner’s system and Turner trusted him. But Heinicke’s lack of arm strength, refusal to run, over trusting his physical traits, height and repeated bad decisions are why Heinicke wasn’t successful.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, KDawg said:

But Heinicke’s lack of arm strength, refusal to run, over trusting his physical traits, height and repeated bad decisions are why Heinicke wasn’t successful.

And why it wouldn’t matter if Bill Walsh reincarnated was calling plays for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He didn’t help. But Heinicke was as “good” as he was because he knew Turner’s system and Turner trusted him. But Heinicke’s lack of arm strength, refusal to run, over trusting his physical traits, height and repeated bad decisions are why Heinicke wasn’t successful.

 

Agree.

 

I'll add, Heinicke stunk it up last year in the home stretch with the playoffs on the line and stunk again this season in the home stretch with the playoffs on the line.  the Heinicke is a winner and clutch stuff went out the window IMO after the 2nd Giants game. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NoCalMike]

Whether Heinicke could perform better with a different OC or not is besides the point that he lacks some attributes that make up a QB1 level talent.  He isn't going to be a starter here or otherwise unless the guy in front of him is injured.  Washington has been in a unique position where two seasons in a row that exact thing has happened, yet even with that, the coaches have been super careful to let it be known he isn't more than a back up getting the opportunity to play when needed.  

 

The jury isn't out on Howell yet either as far as what he might or might not be in a couple more seasons, but you can see even just from one game that the raw talent is present.  He was mainly running a training wheels version of the offense, yet besides the rookie mistake INT, his throws were crisp, on the money and thrown in stride so that the WR's were able to run after the catch.  A lot of people will look at the dime he threw to Terry, but I focused on the toss to Dotson close to the sideline where it was the timing that made it.  Howell sees Dotson 1 on 1 and throws the ball before Dotson makes his break.  It was an anticipation throw and when Dotson turns his head the ball is there for Dotson to grab & go, which he does and gets a ton of more yards and if the safety wasn't in position, likely runs down the sideline for a score.   You aren't going to get that with Heinicke, if he completes the same pass, it is likely arriving late an even if it is still caught, he is likely pushed out of bounds or tackled immediately.  Those small things are what separate QBs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

And why it wouldn’t matter if Bill Walsh reincarnated was calling plays for him.

 

Cooley who isn't a fan of Scott Turner also said more or less on a podcast that we've seen peak Taylor now, in his view you can change things up for him and it wouldn't matter much and we are still seeing his ceiling. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Biggest reason is that his biggest asset is his value to the Turner style offense. If Turner is gone, Heinicke's value takes a giant hit. 

 I think if Turner was gone the new coach would see Howell is a dual treat as is Taylor a backup with similar style and take advantage of it.  No more plotters like Wentz, if Howell is the Man.

[KDawg]

Just now, skinsfan66 said:

 I think if Turner was gone the new coach would see Howell is a dual treat as is Taylor a backup with similar style and take advantage of it.  No more plotters like Wentz, if Howell is the Man.

Heinicke doesn’t have a similar style to Howell, though. I think I see what you mean. Both scrappy, don’t let the moments get too big, likable guys. 
 

But Heinicke doesn’t use his legs like Howell, doesn’t have an arm like Howell and doesn’t hit his receivers in stride like Howell. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cooley who isn't a fan of Scott Turner also said more or less on a podcast that we've seen peak Taylor now, in his view you can change things up for him and it wouldn't matter much and we are still seeing his ceiling. 

Right.

 

I recall a popular take this time last year was to spend all the savings loading up on weapons for him.  Similar to playcaller, I don’t think it really matters of you give him Randy Moss and a Calvin Johnson, they’ll be throwing their helmets on the sideline in two weeks out of frustration.

 

 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

 I think if Turner was gone the new coach would see Howell is a dual treat as is Taylor a backup with similar style and take advantage of it.  No more plotters like Wentz, if Howell is the Man.

 

 

But TH refuses to run.  And when he did, he fumbled.  There is no way TH should be back.  I'll take any vet QB as the back-up over him.

[Ball Security]

Wentz was unmitigated disaster.  But he’s come off as a good dude during his short stint: his blocking in the Chicago game, keeping his mouth shut during his benching, then this - 

 

 

[mojo]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He didn’t help. But Heinicke was as “good” as he was because he knew Turner’s system and Turner trusted him. But Heinicke’s lack of arm strength, refusal to run, over trusting his physical traits, height and repeated bad decisions are why Heinicke wasn’t successful.

Heinicke knows his system yes I agree, but the system is just wrong for a QB w Heinicke’s limitations.  It doesn’t mean Heinicke can’t learn another system or an offense can’t be better tailored to him.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mojo said:

Heinicke knows his system yes I agree, but the system is just wrong for a QB w Heinicke’s limitations.  It doesn’t mean Heinicke can’t learn another system or an offense can’t be better tailored to him.

But there’s a learning curve. And a guy like Heinicke isn’t good enough to hold on to a roster spot while trying to learn it. 
 

There isn’t an offense in the NFL that is suited for Heinicke’s limitations.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Ball Security said:

Wentz was unmitigated disaster.  But he’s come off as a good dude during his short stint: his blocking in the Chicago game, keeping his mouth shut during his benching, then this - 

Just the way he handled his presser last week and looking so jovial and carefree on the sidelines today, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hang the cleats up.  He does not look like a guy that still has the hunger to compete.

2 minutes ago, mojo said:

Heinicke knows his system yes I agree, but the system is just wrong for a QB w Heinicke’s limitations.  It doesn’t mean Heinicke can’t learn another system or an offense can’t be better tailored to him.

Why on gods green earth would any GM, coach or OC tailor their system to a QB as incredibly limited as Heinicke?

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

The problem I have with this that they will need to learn Turner's offence. If that is the case then Taylor is the better option. Think simple and not try to over think it. 

 

 

Turners offense is garbage, it shouldn't be taught to anyone.

 

His playbook should get locked with a cursed skeleton key and dropped in a bayou somewhere...

[NoCalMike]

If Howell isn't starting Week 1 2023, then I don't believe whoever is the starting QB is currently on the roster. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Heinicke doesn’t have a similar style to Howell, though. I think I see what you mean. Both scrappy, don’t let the moments get too big, likable guys. 
 

But Heinicke doesn’t use his legs like Howell, doesn’t have an arm like Howell and doesn’t hit his receivers in stride like Howell. 

 

Also Heinicke's accuracy no matter which outfit is charting it is abysmal.    

Edited January 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

With a patch worked OL and playing against the starters of the Cowboys, we easily saw the most talented QB on our team in Sam Howell. Not even close with Wentz and TH.  Not even close!  We need to draft OL early in the upcoming draft and keep Sweat, Curl and Payne (if the price is right) or tag Payne and get picks for him.  

[FlyBigBeard]

You definitely roll with Howell as your #1 next year. And see what he has a full time starter. Heinicke as your #2 and cut Wents. Howell definitely showed enough to see what he can do as the full time guy. No need to draft a guy this year, trade back and stack draft picks. 

[Conn]

30 minutes ago, mojo said:

Put Brock Purdy on this team with this O line and Turner’s play calling and you would be saying the exact same thing about him.

This is incorrect, Purdy has an NFL arm, anticipation, and shows good ball placement. You can isolate the throws from the playcall. Purdy would certainly play worse under Turner, that’s correct. But you’d still see the difference in skillset in a stark way. 

[tmandoug1]

Lets hope Howell can grow into QB1.  I got caught up in the Neinecke Hive early.....let's not get our nuts all tight after one game. Let's be happy we didn't sign Prescott to the deal he got....whew!

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Wentz was unmitigated disaster.  But he’s come off as a good dude during his short stint: his blocking in the Chicago game, keeping his mouth shut during his benching, then this - 

 

 

 

Wentz agree is a good dude.  the reports about him being a problem personality were way off.  Sadly the national media and various NFL insiders mocking his play as being atrocious, did turn out to be true. 

[mojo]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is incorrect, Purdy has an NFL arm, anticipation, and shows good ball placement. You can isolate the throws from the playcall. Purdy would certainly play worse under Turner, that’s correct. But you’d still see the difference in skillset in a stark way. 

The guy was the last pick in the draft..he ain’t Justin Herbert. It’s coaching and having an O line.

[ananoman]

24 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

If Turner has lost the support of the locker room, and reports are saying he has, I think it's clear he's gotta go.  It would be one thing if the criticism was just coming from outside the building, but it's not.

 

And Turner has been dealt a tough hand.  Fitz going down, Wentz debacle, and trying to get the most out of TH isn't easy.  But a change is needed, and a spark could have a huge impact on our young offensive playmakers.

The injuries not withstanding, Turner simply isn’t a good play caller, and we’ve seen too many examples where he calls plays that don’t play to the strength of the personnel on the field, or puts the wrong personnel on the field for the play called.