The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

58 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

He had a real QB for the 1st 5 games though. 

 

Well, he had a real QB with potential, though I'm not sure how much we can glean about a guy in his first 5 games in a new system with a banged up OL and not much running game. That's not to shift all blame from Wentz. He absolutely created plenty of his own problems as well. Just not sure if it's a useful marker as far as Turner goes.

[redskinss]

8 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

The Giants outplayed us both games and not because of their skill players.  I couldn't even name a skill player besides Barkley.  They are built better on the lines (they do have the better QB but not by much).  

Besides one of the most dynamic running backs in the game.

That's an awful convenient besides.

And they've been losing most of their games lately because teams are keying on Barkley and they can't do much of anything else because they don't have any talent at any of the other positions. 

I agree our offensive line is a wreck and it needs to be fixed, I wanted to keep scherff and Williams because I didn't want to fix one problem only to have another one spring up.

That said I very much disagree with you that we should have focused on the line before all else, we've done that and it hasn't worked.

If we can solve the quarterback problem without breaking the bank the offensive line problem is a relatively easy one to fix in comparison and this team will be a competitor. 

 

[zCommander]

37 minutes ago, redskinss said:

6.

Somehow heinicke keeps getting credit for that bears game. 

Must be because the final score was 12 to 7

 

I gave him a discount for the broken finger game lol

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, he had a real QB with potential, though I'm not sure how much we can glean about a guy in his first 5 games in a new system with a banged up OL and not much running game. That's not to shift all blame from Wentz. He absolutely created plenty of his own problems as well. Just not sure if it's a useful marker as far as Turner goes.

 

Here is a glaring example from the Giants game how Turner sometimes doesn't use his brain correctly. 

It is 2nd  and 18 on our own endzone - the sack, fumble, scoop and TD play. 

 

A run play should have been called there to shorten the 3rd down attempt. I said it in the game day thread as well. Then when I was listening to Jay Gruden yesterday he said the exact same thing and added our OL can't protect the QB for a long developing pass play and a run play should have been called there. Bingo.

 

It is really baffling that Turner is not able to see that their DE is always in our backfield and yet you are going to call a long developing pass play? Turner most of the game will call plays that makes you scratch your head. Like Samuel up the gut for no gain. 5 carries yesterday with 1 yard total gain. He abandoned the run in the Giants game. BRob only got like 18 touches. Sure we were down by 11 but you put together two good scoring drive and now we have 14 more. Like Jay said our OL can't pass protect so you run, play-action and shorter throws to move the chains. Gruden would have called a better game than Turner. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Here is a glaring example from the Giants game how Turner sometimes doesn't use his brain correctly. 

It is 2nd  and 18 on our own endzone - the sack, fumble, scoop and TD play. 

 

A run play should have been called there to shorten the 3rd down attempt. I said it in the game day thread as well. Then when I was listening to Jay Gruden yesterday he said the exact same thing and added our OL can't protect the QB for a long developing pass play and a run play should have been called there. Bingo.

 

It is really baffling that Turner is not able to see that their DE is always in our backfield and yet you are going to call a long developing pass play? Turner most of the game will call plays that makes you scratch your head. Like Samuel up the gut for no gain. 5 carries yesterday with 1 yard total gain. He abandoned the run in the Giants game. BRob only got like 18 touches. Sure we were down by 11 but you put together two good scoring drive and now we have 14 more. Like Jay said our OL can't pass protect so you run, play-action and shorter throws to move the chains. Gruden would have called a better game than Turner. 

 

I'm not disagreeing that Turner seems to make some really dumb calls at times. I'm just saying it's hard to make a full analysis of him as a play caller when he's basically had nothing to work with at QB for his entire time here.

 

Is it possible that even if Turner had Mahomes that he'd still **** it up and do dumb ****? Absolutely. Is it also possible that a top notch QB would allow him to fully implement his offense in a much better way? I'd say so.

[Skinsinparadise]

What will Ron Rivera do when Taylor Heinicke’s magic finally runs out?

 

His teammates love him. His head coach bears with him. But Taylor Heinicke is not the long-term solution.

Rather, he is magic. He is the sweet and sugary guilty pleasure at the end of a long day. He is “pixie dust,” the term that jolly Cris Collinsworth often used Sunday night to describe Heinicke during the Washington Commanders’ return to prime-time relevance. You could almost hear the smile on his face as Collinsworth talked about everyone’s favorite underdog. Because Heinicke is so much fun — motoring 15 yards for a first down, then promptly celebrating that first down even though his team trailed by eight points in the fourth quarter.

 

 

But as with enchanting illusions and empty-calorie desserts, the substance that makes up Heinicke as a starting quarterback can only last for so long.

 

There comes a time when you realize that magic acts are just sleight of hand. No, the lovely assistant hasn’t been sawed in half — there’s another woman hiding in the second box. And, no, Heinicke’s longest completion of the night wasn’t jaw-dropping quarterbacking at its finest — rookie wide receiver Jahan Dotson just made an incredible adjustment to haul in that 61-yard bomb in the fourth quarter.

 

And while who would say no to a dollop of whipped cream on top of three scoops of cookie dough ice cream, that choice always comes with an inevitable crash. The sugar high of Heinicke, mischievously grinning as the most marketable face of Washington’s rebirth, suddenly went poof when the Commanders lost what was a second consecutive winnable game against the New York Giants.

 

The first meeting in Week 13 ended in a tie. Then on Sunday, despite having rookie running back Brian Robinson Jr. on the verge of a 100-yard rushing game and showing the depth of the team’s offensive weapons with steady Terry McLaurin and the emergent Dotson, the Commanders still managed to look pedestrian: possessing the ball for more than 11 minutes in the opening quarter but only scoring three points, not converting a third down until the fourth quarter (that Heinicke run) and stalling twice in the red zone late in the 20-12 loss.

 

While the Giants held serve and scored 20 in both meetings, Washington managed to move backward Sunday. That’s not all on the quarterback — just like the Commanders’ 5-1-1 stretch with Heinicke as the starter entering Sunday’s game wasn’t all because he had sprinkled pixie dust over the interior defense or Robinson’s feet, two major contributing factors to the team’s success. Yet the urgency, and unfairness, of the NFL demands a decision from Coach Ron Rivera.

 

He can be patient with the magic — and pray that the woman in the second box doesn’t accidentally get amputated and that Heinicke doesn’t lose two fumbles as he did Sunday. Or Rivera can tighten the short leash he already has on Heinicke, knowing his chosen quarterback waits in the wings.

 

 

Rivera has protected Wentz while tolerating Heinicke. The coach’s assessments of his unexpected starting QB have been tepid — hardly gushing and always honest. Once Rivera officially tagged Heinicke as the starter moving forward, he found a way to not only give him the green light (“One thing that I’ve always done is whoever the starter is, I’m going to commit to him fully”) but, in the next breath, contradict that confidence when asked if Heinicke was the long-term quarterback (“Remember, everything’s one game at a time.”)

Sunday, even as Rivera tried to find nice things to say about Heinicke’s overall performance, his comments turned to criticism.

 

“I thought he did some really good things. I did,” Rivera said. “We had him take a couple of shots deep. He threw a couple of really good balls that were just a little overthrown, and he also threw a couple that were caught. He moved us, but …”

And that’s the key word here. But there are glaring problems that Rivera just can’t ignore.

“When we get into the red zone, we got to put it in the end zone,” Rivera said emphatically. “We absolutely got to score touchdowns instead of kicking field goals.”

Inside the Commanders’ silent locker room after the loss, once Rivera completed his final on-camera interview, he made his way back to the solace of his office. First, he made a stop at the corner stall belonging to his quarterback. Still wearing his all-burgundy undergarments, Heinicke followed his coach. They closed the door behind them for a private meeting. When he emerged, Heinicke returned to his stall and sat down with his head bowed for several moments, running his hands through his hair.

 

...But the Commanders are running low on chances. Just three more games remain in their season that began with a 1-4 sputter but has since been saved by a chase for a playoff spot. Because such great stakes hang in the balance, with so little time remaining, Rivera has to wonder if the magic has run out.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/12/19/taylor-heinicke-carson-wentz-ron-rivera/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=wp_sports

[Skinsinparadise]

 

As the players dressed and grappled with their 20-12 loss to the New York Giants in prime time Sunday, Coach Ron Rivera pulled quarterback Taylor Heinicke aside and led him from the Washington Commanders’ locker room to his nearby office at FedEx Field.

 

Heinicke shut the door behind him and didn’t emerge for roughly 15 minutes, after which he somberly shed his pads and prepared to address a room of reporters.

 

“My conversation with Taylor last night, it was: ‘Hey, look, we had some really good moments during this game. We did some really good things, but we’ve got to build on it now. We’ve got to finish. We truthfully got to finish in the red zone,’ ” Rivera recalled Monday afternoon. “... As long as I’m open with him and he understands where I’m coming from, I think we both get the messaging.”

 

Rivera’s messaging has been consistent if repetitive: The Commanders had opportunities and did not take advantage, a refrain he returned to many times after Sunday night’s disappointing loss in a pivotal NFC East matchup.

They had “several opportunities” to make plays on both sides of the ball. They had an opportunity to win it, “a couple opportunities” to turn the Giants back on defense, opportunities for Heinicke to use his legs to pick up first downs and opportunities to run the ball more — which could’ve opened up more opportunities to use play-action, he said.

[FootballZombie]

It is unbelievably bad when you can be listed as 32/32, the worst QB in the NFL, and it is still a Godzilla-sized upgrade over your actual ranking.

 

I'd take 32/32 play from TH. I really would.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

It is unbelievably bad when you can be listed as 32/32, the worst QB in the NFL, and it is still a Godzilla-sized upgrade over your actual ranking.

 

I'd take 32/32 play from TH. I really would.

 

He's actually much further down the list with PFF.  But 32nd would be among starters. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

PFF, QBR, WWF, PBR, IDGAF, he’s #1 in our hearts!

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

PFF, QBR, WWF, PBR, IDGAF, he’s #1 in our hearts!

 

He might not put up the stats, yards, points, etc -- but he's a winner and when we needed that moxie to show he's bigger than stats-points and overtake the Giants to make this a playoff season, Taylor shined the brightest. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[method man]

Others have suggested it but they could bring Wentz in in the red zone against the Niners

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

I do think the writing is on the wall after Rivera brought Heinicke into his office after the game.

[redskinss]

13 minutes ago, method man said:

Others have suggested it but they could bring Wentz in in the red zone against the Niners

Hey why the hell not right.

 

But it feels weird, the teams that employ 2 quarterbacks are because one is a thrower and the other is a runner.

How do you justify doing it with two passing quarterbacks?

 

Well we think they both suck but heinicke seems to move the chains and Wentz is tall so that's what we're gonna try.

Just feels hard to quantify a logical reason to trust wentz in the red zone and not the rest of the field.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by redskinss

[DJHJR86]

 

 

https://www.outkick.com/carson-wentz-future-looks-more-uncertain-than-ever/

 

“Carson Wentz is one of the strangest dudes I’ve ever seen at quarterback,” said one personnel man who researched Wentz extensively after the 2019 season when it became obviously Philadelphia was going to trade him.

 

“He’s physically tough. He’ll throw his body around and hang in the pocket,” the personnel man said. “But he melts when he’s challenged and he doesn’t have a tough-guy mentality. He’s not really a leader. I’m really surprised that Frank (Reich) still defends him after all that crap in Indy, like not getting vaccinated and then playing so crappy down the stretch."

 

“Maybe Frank feels sorry for him or it’s because he has known him for so long … Wentz basically looked like he had the yips. He wouldn’t get rid of it when should have and then tried to make big plays when they weren’t there. There’s a time to be a hero and there’s a time to be smart. Wentz doesn’t get that. He’s kind of a brain-dead heaver.”

 

 

[ntotoro]

When I want to hear what Theesman thinks, I’ll make him turn off his blow dryer long enough to hear him.

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Some people seem to think we have a Oline and a great coach even last year and its the QB. PFF Numbers are golden too.  Blocking blindside rushers at our own goal line had just as much to do with not winning either Giants games.  Quick 7points turns game around, helps take Wash out of game plan and lose momentum.  How does the same play not get blocked or DE, LB touched 2 games in a row at our own goal line?  Why would you call the play if you cannot or think you do not have to block it? He had been tearing up the left side all night at that poiunt. Where was the adjustment for it not to happen again?  It's not that coaches are totally running to save TH from blowing the game too. The OLine sucks on passing downs they did last year too and deserved just as much blame. He took shots to the back from the blind side at 2 games in a row at the goal line.  It's a wonder he did not fumble the first game with the Giants and lose that game too. Defense played well enough to get a pass,Offense Coaches, QB, Oline share the blame altogether. If either had made a few less mistakes both games would have been won. 

[skinsmania123]

I was listening to Rivera yesterday and today and while he did not call out Turner directly, he talked about doing things that play to the strengths of your QB. More rolling out, bootlegs, and relying on the strength of the run game.  One thing I always respected about Doug Pederson when he coached the Eagles, and Wentz, got hurt, and he had to go with Foles, was how he tailored the offense to him.  I know a QB, should be able to adjust to an OC's gameplan, but when you have such a limited QB, you have to adjust massively for that, especially because they are backups. It just seems when this O is more up tempo and Taylor has to get the ball out quicker, it seems to go so much smoother.  And obviously with our run game being so dominant right with Robinson now it should be luxury for both Turner and Heinike.  I just do not like the game planning, as it pertains to TH.  I mean you know he has a weak arm, and your backed up on the Giants one yard line and you are trying to throw the ball? You're not handing the ball off? Why?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Some people seem to think we have a Oline and a great coach even last year and its the QB. PFF Numbers are golden too.  Blocking blindside rushers at our own goal line had just as much to do with not winning either Giants games.  Quick 7points turns game around, helps take Wash out of game plan and lose momentum.  How does the same play not get blocked or DE, LB touched 2 games in a row at our own goal line?  Why would you call the play if you cannot or think you do not have to block it? He had been tearing up the left side all night at that poiunt. Where was the adjustment for it not to happen again?  It's not that coaches are totally running to save TH from blowing the game too. The OLine sucks on passing downs they did last year too and deserved just as much blame. He took shots to the back from the blind side at 2 games in a row at the goal line.  It's a wonder he did not fumble the first game with the Giants and lose that game too. Defense played well enough to get a pass,Offense Coaches, QB, Oline share the blame altogether. If either had made a few less mistakes both games would have been won. 

 

I don't think anyone is putting the full blame on Taylor.  Speaking of PFF, last year they ranked the O line is one of the best in the league, yet Taylor still wasn't hot.

 

The off season's priorities IMO QB AND O line, no doubt.

 

But i agree with Cooley who said recently you jack up Heinicke's supporting cast, he's still likely as limited as what we've seen.

1 hour ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I do think the writing is on the wall after Rivera brought Heinicke into his office after the game.

 

Between that, and Rivera talking up Taylor should have run more and do better in the red zone.  I posted that quote here.

 

My takeaway is Rivera told him lay it all out next Saturday because your job is on the line

[Skinsinparadise]

The Heinicke versus Wentz drill is complex.

 

That sums it up well in those tweets.  Wentz should have an easier time than before.  But I don't trust Wentz in high stakes games-moments. 

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The bottom line is the QB play has been abysmal.  We’ve faced some awful defenses.  Defenses that give up a ton of points, even to teams with bad offensive lines like ours.  

The only reason anyone cares to ever see Wentz again is because he’s not Heinicke.  When the starting QB stinks, naturally folks want to see the backup.  Kind of like when Wentz stunk, folks were calling for Heinicke.

 

It’s about entertainment, the unknown - even if you are pretty certain you know what’s going to happen.  This is the life for a team with no viable QB. 

 

 

 

 

[CobraCommander]

There’s a third option. I don’t really understand why everyone ignores it. Look at what Brock “Who The ****  Is This Guy?” Purdy has done. 

What are we afraid of losing? A first round playoff game? That’s our best case scenario with Heinicke or Wentz. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by CobraCommander

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

There’s a third option. I don’t really understand why everyone ignores it. Look at what Brock “Who The ****  Is This Guy?” Purdy has done. 

What are we afraid of losing? A first round playoff game? That’s our best case scenario with Heinicke or Wentz. 

I think he’s afraid of losing the locker room, more than anything.