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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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HOF44

HOF44

Posted
Posted (edited)

It’s like Wentz is the anti-Heinecke, NFL size, NFL arm, but lacks the ability to get a team to rally around him and play for him. He’s missing something or he wouldn’t be on his 3rd team in 3 years. 

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted
1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

You don't think Heinicke has NFL QB speed?

No. Not for the actual mobile QBs in the league. He does for a "pocket" guy. But he's not a pocket guy.

 

He doesn't have Hurts, Fields, Jackson speed.

 

He has the Aaron Rodgers type of mobility but without the Aaron Rodgers type skillset.

 

 

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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If Rivera goes back to Wentz…. then that just confirms his idiocy. 

 

Wentz has been brutal here. He’s a momentum killer…. 3 and outs… 50 yards passing in the first half 3 games straight.

 

He doesn’t target McLaurin. He can’t complete passes to receivers or TEs. He can’t run. even his deep throws are TERRIBLE for a guy supposedly with a big arm…. it’s like watching pickup football the way he launched them into the air with no zip or accuracy (mostly out of bounds)
 

Cut your losses Ron. Don’t be stupid.

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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@zCommander Some of those dudes who left you here all by yourself to conjure up a defense of TH’s play against the Vikings, all the sudden pop up like ****roaches to shout down the “haters”.

 

I tip my cap to you for your resilience, while the others run and hide when the going gets tough.

 

As for what to do at QB moving forward, they simply cannot go back to Wentz right now.   Yeah, we ran it 900 times to victory - but TH made some plays with his arm and really only had one boneheaded play but also had the headsy play of the year on the bad snap.  
 

I give Ron enough credit to know how to read a locker room and simply don’t see him taking the ball from the hot hand.

 

Is it likely, there are more stinkers in TH’s bag…sure.  But you can only move on once that time comes.

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No. Not for the actual mobile QBs in the league. He does for a "pocket" guy. But he's not a pocket guy.

 

He doesn't have Hurts, Fields, Jackson speed.

 

He has the Aaron Rodgers type of mobility but without the Aaron Rodgers type skillset.

 

 

 

If he has the ability to punish defenses with his legs and is more than fast enough to outrun defenses to pick up crucial 1st downs on 3rd and long, he has NFL QB speed. A lot of QBs can't do either of those things.

 

 

BTW, does anyone still think it's laughable to say Heinicke is elusive in the pocket and will need it behind our Oline?...

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KDawg

KDawg

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11 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

If he has the ability to punish defenses with his legs and is more than fast enough to outrun defenses to pick up crucial 1st downs on 3rd and long, he has NFL QB speed. A lot of QBs can't do either of those things.

 

 

BTW, does anyone still think it's laughable to say Heinicke is elusive in the pocket and will need it behind our Oline?...

I don’t think he has the ability to punish defenses with his legs. He can scramble if needed but punish? Hyperbole much?

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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Posted
9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think he has the ability to punish defenses with his legs. He can scramble if needed but punish? Hyperbole much?

 

Next I'll post youtube clips of him punishing defenses with his legs...and you'll follow up by posting the laughing emoticon and claiming I'm making him out to be Michael Vick. I've seen this movie before.

 

 

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
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1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Next I'll post youtube clips of him punishing defenses with his legs...and you'll follow up by posting the laughing emoticon and claiming I'm making him out to be Michael Vick. I've seen this movie before.

 

 

 

Well, considering I've never had this conversation with you before, I'm not sure you'd see it play out.

 

Clips don't tell the story. He can scramble if necessary but it is laughable that people think he's a real rushing threat. 

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Panninho

Panninho

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Posted
4 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Saying 3-1 is such a reductionist argument that’s it’s not meant to be taken very seriously. It’s like saying Trent difler is a better player than Dan Marino. 
 

how about you actually analyze TH’s play on the field. It isn’t great. I thought he was okay today, terrible against the Vikings. I still don’t think this team will contend with either TH or Wentz but the team is playing better as a unit with TH. He deserves some credit but context matters. 

Yeah wins aren't a QB stat. But it's also dumb to disregard that we seem to win with Heinicke despite his relatively poor actual performances.

We are 8-4 with Heinicke over his last 12 starts, including 3-1 this season with a win on the road against arguably the best team in the league and the only loss against the 8-1 Vikings who just won against Buffalo on the road...and we should have won that game as well.

 

Now if we lock at Heinickes actual performances in isolation, they aren't necessarily good. Actually they are often quite poor. But there is something about him that is hard to measure. The team seems to rally around him. They play with a different energy when he is on the field. Some of that is due to some magic moments that just inject life into a team in crucial moments. But I also think that it is down to his mobility that often helps us to extend drives and minimize big losses. In our wins, we have had a lot of really long scoring drives with Heinicke where we methodically moved down the field.  Gives the defense time to breath. With Wentz we took a lot of sacks and it feels like we went 3 & out in back to back situations a lot.

 

It makes the evaluation really hard because in isolation Wentz gives you more as a QB than Heinicke. But overall, Heinicke seems to give us the best chances to win - even though it's hard to explain why with rational, plausible arguments that go beyond "soft" factors. I think we should stick with Heinicke until he gives you a reason to bench him. We need a new QB next season regardless, so there is also not a long-term damage with Wentz's role here. Plus we'll keep our second rounder if we sit Wentz at least one more game.

 

 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So Alex Smith 2.0. Something we all knew was unsustainable and leads to nothing but mediocrity we’re lining up for again. This franchise man… 

So you’re not willing to budge at all that perhaps this roster isn’t as bad as you’ve been beating the drum on?

 

This defense looks top notch - not just against the sisters of the poor.  Major addition by subtraction with WJ3 no longer in the mix.

 

I know this is the QB thread, but the defense and the running game - importantly the commitment to it, is allowing a guy like Heinicke to craft his ways to wins. 
 

No, this is not how you envision winning long term.  But odd not to be able to tip the cap to the team, coaches and all, after a victory like that.

 

 

 

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mhd24

mhd24

Posted
Posted

You can't go back to Wentz starting right now, but Heineke is going to still have some horrendous throws.  He's been getting lucky.  That INT last night was an awful throw.  Teams are going to crowd the box and he'll throw balls up for grabs that will get picked (See Minny game last week where he got lucky by the back job pick and also missed Logan Thomas by a mile that led to the losing INT).  The only way this team is competitive with Heineke is last night (i.e. run the ball constantly) is to limit the times he throws the ball.  He's going to throw picks.  We should have lost the Raiders game last year (for example) when Moehrig dropped a pick 6 on the game winning FG drive.  

10 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

The thing is pretty much every single game he plays is a reason to bench a guy

 

Yup.  He lost the Minnesota game.  We got lucky on the back-judge TD.  He gave away more points in the horrific Logan Thomas throw.  This isn't sustainable.  We saw this last year.  We win in spite of him.

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Chris 44

Chris 44

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KDawg said:

No. Not for the actual mobile QBs in the league. He does for a "pocket" guy. But he's not a pocket guy.

 

He doesn't have Hurts, Fields, Jackson speed.

 

He has the Aaron Rodgers type of mobility but without the Aaron Rodgers type skillset.

 

 

Well put. Heinekes mobility allowed him to recover the over head snap and get to a point where he could get rid of the ball without taking a loss. Wentz can no longer make that play. Huge play in the game.  That being said, the ball probably doesn't go over Wentz head, lol

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Personally, I'd go back to Wentz.

 

I'm curious to see if he looks more comfortable in the offense after the time off.

 

Wentz is feeling the ghost of Nick Foles breathing on his neck, I don't know man.........

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