The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chris 44]

51 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Are you ok? The spacing here. 

I kept scrolling thinking there would be a dramatic punchline at the end of the white noise.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

It was the Heinicke's first game back from the Covid list. Maybe they were going through withdrawal and took too big a Moxie hit before the game. If my hair were on fire, I'd need to blow off a little steam too.

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I kept scrolling thinking there would be a dramatic punchline at the end of the white noise.

 

He even edited it...and more white space got added lol...

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[SpacePenguin]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

I kept scrolling thinking there would be a dramatic punchline at the end of the white noise.

I've noticed that enter is creating a space but not moving the cursor down on mobile sometimes.

 

It's gotta be related lol

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

Heinicke trusts his playmakers to make plays and he bets on them. They love him for it. He is the anti-Cousins. No check downs no leaving the game without having tried to win.  It’s not going to work every week and when you gamble you often lose. But it’s so entertaining to watch.  
 

You also can’t discount his starting record for us. It’s a results based business and the dude is getting results. At 1-4 I didn’t think we would end up with so much entertainment this season, but the end of the game yesterday was so much fun. My son and I were going nuts.  I am enjoying the ride. Let’s see where it goes .

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by SoCalSkins

[Califan007 The Constipated]

22 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

You think Jon Allen drug the highest-paid Guard in the league all over the field for 60 full minutes because of Taylor Heinicke?  
 

Man, don’t do this to yourself.

 

 

 

I'll repeat myself: I think your definition of "rallying around" differs from everyone else's lol...

 

 

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Heinicke trusts his playmakers to make plays and he bets on them. They love him for it. He is the anti-Cousins.

 

 

Something I said last year based on an article about Cousins I had read: Cousins trusts the process more than he trusts his playmakers. Heinicke trusts his playmakers even more than he trusts his arm.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Passizle said:

Man oh man... I have not been here in a long time and this still feels so Campbell/Collins/CB5 or the Griffin/Cousins saga.

 

I feel ya...me back in June...

 

On 6/27/2022 at 11:29 AM, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I'm starting to worry that Wentz/Heinicke will become a modern-day Campbell/Collins lol...

 

 

 

[petey hodge]

Imma buy this for tonight!

 

[NickyJ]

Jumbo has been typing something for the past hour, the anticipation is building in me more than it did for me for the first 3 quarters of having one TD yesterday.

Edited October 31, 2022 by NickyJ

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Jumbo has been typing something for the past hour, the anticipation is building in me more than it did for me for the first 3 quarters of having one TD yesterday.

Oooh….wonder what he’s gonna say??

 

[petey hodge]

6 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Jumbo has been typing something for the past hour, the anticipation is building in me more than it did for me for the first 3 quarters of having one TD yesterday.

 

There's a lot built up...  I expect a big post!

[NeverSurrender]

34 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Hey here's an idea, since Scott turner has been hit or miss why not give him the week off against Minnesota and just have heinicke draw out plays on his chest in the huddle.

if we're gonna be sandlot chuck it up for grabs anyway let's really lean into it.

I really think Turner stalled like 3/4 drive with those terrible screen calls yesterday. 

[skinny21]

Re-watched the game (offense only) because I could get through it in 10 or so minutes, and because I wanted to watch it w/o the emotion.

 

Turner’s play calling was a bit of a mixed bag.  

The good:  I liked that he ran more crossers.  He must have seen something in Indy’s tape.  Liked the option pitch wrinkle and the TE screen, along with that Gibson play with the “window dressing”.  Glad he called the qb sneak at the end.  Did a good job mixing things up I thought, breaking tendencies.  Running JD on 3rd and 3 for example.  He moved the pocket a bit, and I like that he called plays to stretch the D to the sidelines.  He’s been doing this since our oline really started struggling in pass pro… and yes, I realize it’s a bit of a no-brainer to do so.

 

The bad:  Going back to last year, we’ve pretty consistently stunk at rb screens.  He called two that (predictably) got stuffed for losses.  The shotgun run on the 4th and long 1, passing on 3rd and inches… not a fan.  

 

The uncertain:  I didn’t pay close enough attention, but Heinicke was under a ton of pressure, and I’m not sure how often backs/TEs were kept in to help the pass pro.  

 

Heinicke was also a mixed bag.  Re-watching though, I don’t think he had the “58 minutes of bad play” people are talking about.

Drive 1:  Run, run, 3rd and 6 - TH gets pressured before he finishes his drop, steps up and gets sacked.

Drive 2: Throw away (I think?), the wr screen to Terry for a big loss (I’ll get to that in a second), 3rd and 17 - pass to the flat for minimal gain.

Drive 3:  Two running first downs, the big crosser to Terry, and the td to Gibson

Drive 4:  The crosser to Samuel, rb screen blown up, batted ball, 3rd and 13 TH scrambles (takes an unnecessary hit).

Drive 5:  3 runs for a 1st, pass to Milne, slides inches short, then the shotgun incompletion to JD that’s almost picked.

Drive 6:  Sidearm throw to Bates, the option pitch for a 1st, then a run for 0, batted ball, slant to Terry, run from shotgun on 4th and 1 that’s stuffed.

Drive 7:  Toss run (looked like loss of 1), TH scrambles and throws incomplete to crossing route, 3rd and 10 he faces immediate pressure - pass to Terry for 5.

Drive 8:  Run, run, 3rd and 6 and Lucas misses his guy.  Sack as TH completes his drop.

Drive 9:  Int.  

Drive 10:  2 passes to Gibson, the intermediate crosser to Terry, deep ball down sideline to no one, blown up rb screen, pass to flat to JD, the 4th and 6 scramble and pass to Samuel.  TE screen.  Scramble for 4 on 1st, run for 3, the grounder to JD on 3rd and 3 (empty set).  FG.

Drive 11:  The GW drive.

 

The good:  We could argue about ball placement on some of these, but the crossers to Terry and Sims, the 4th and 6 scramble and pass to Samuel, picking up yards with his legs, avoiding numerous sacks.  Other plays he did what he should (TE screen, some of the passes to the flats).  Not sure I’d call them “good”, but at least with the outlet passes, he went through his reads and found the dump off.

 

The bad:  The int was egregious.  I thought maybe his arm was hit as he threw, but I don’t know.  Either way though, he was throwing into coverage.  The throw to JD that was almost picked - it was dangerous, and poorly thrown, thoughI can see why he thought he had it.  The scramble and then incomplete throw (to Rogers?) was off target, but not sure I’d call it “bad”.  I’m not going to put the 2 batted balls here either.  Happens to most qbs.  Tempted to put the throw to Bates here as he threw it behind him.  Hard to tell, but it looked like Bates had room to run.  On the other hand, the throw was difficult because of the need to go side arm (and he did manage to complete it).

Multiple throws were not quite in stride and didn’t let his receivers run with the ball.  He’s done a good job protecting himself (last year and this year), but he shouldn’t have taken the hit he did on one of his scrambles (he obviously wasn’t picking up the 1st).

 

The uncertain:  The deep ball down the left sideline - looked like he and Terry weren’t on the same page?  Maybe it was a poorly executed throw away?  Terry had just caught the crosser and then subbed himself out after this play… just not sure what was going on here.  

The wr screen to Terry - torn on this one.  If he puts it in front of Terry, it’s one of his murder balls.  Maybe he thought the best chance was to put it behind Terry in the hopes Terry could/would spin away from the hard-charging defender?  Super dangerous ball though since it would have been live if Terry didn’t catch it.  (I’d understand putting this in the “bad” category).

The grounder to JD - it was poorly thrown, no doubt.  If he puts it on JD though, he probably takes a big hit.  If he leads him upfield, it’s probably a pick 6 or a big hit.  So was it purely poor mechanics?  Or was it that combined with trying to avoid risk?

The big play to Terry at the end - poorly thrown ball?  100%.  Was the throw made more difficult because it wasn’t scripted?  Yes.  Could one second guess his decision to heave it to his top receiver (who’s a contested catch monster)?  Yep.  Was Terry open?  Yep.  There was enough time on the clock to run a few more plays, so he could have thrown it away instead.  On the other hand, does this team struggle in the red zone?  Was it probably the best chance at a single covered Terry?  Yes, and yes.  Do I think Heinicke is likely to score from outside the 30 in 3 plays?  Nope.  So all in all, I put this one in the “uncertain” category.

 

 

Overall, Heinicke was fairly innacurate, helped his oline immensely with his scrambling, made one or two god awful decisions, moved past the int quickly, got lucky at times, went through his reads well, could have done without a few poor play calls (IMO), and had yet another game winning drive with clutch plays and some luck.

He’s obviously not “the guy”… but he’s “the guy” for now.

 

[skinsfan93]

19 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

He’s obviously not “the guy”… but he’s “the guy” for now.

I am not one of those who think Heinicke is some kind of legend. However I do think he gives us the best chance to make a run. I would like to see Howell in there but feel it might be better to redshirt him the fullyear.  As much as I thought Wentz would be solid, he literally has zero mobility at this point in his career. He used to be able to scramble a bit and could throw from different angles but even Big Ben in his latter career was more elusive than Wentz. 
 

Given the fact of the conditional draft pick, start Taylor the rest of the year and a reset next year. 
 

 

Oh one thing I was thinking about recently is how through all of camp, there was very little praise about Wentz from our skilled players. No one was saying how they thought he was an excellent addition. Sure some mentioned his arm strength but no real praise about how he was gonna win games for us. However the opposite is true of Heinicke. Guys are literally in love with him like that picture of him and Jon Allen hugging last week. It is quite telling to me. 
 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by skinsfan93

[TradeTheBeal!]

We could trade for Aaron Rodgers in the off-season and get out of it for a 20M cap hit in 2024 if we need to.  I feel like we win that game yesterday by 21+ even with old, diminished ARod.

 

*ducks*

[Captain Wiggles]

1 hour ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Why does the team rally around TH and get excited whenever he’s plugged in to cover the supposed starter?

 

If I knew I'd bottle it and sell it.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

If I knew I'd bottle it and sell it.

 

 

I know a guy that has it in powder form. Pricey though.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

 

Oh one thing I was thinking about recently is how through all of camp, there was very little praise about Wentz from our skilled players. No one was saying how they thought he was an excellent addition. Sure some mentioned his arm strength but no real praise about how he was gonna win games for us. However the opposite is true of Heinicke. Guys are literally in love with him like that picture of him and Jon Allen hugging last week. It is quite telling to me. 
 

 

So let me get this straight, not one player on the roster from last season made even so much as a whisper that Heinicke should be given a chance to start. Heinicke mania had its time, that came and went.  After perhaps the worst game of football I’ve ever watched against the Giants to end the season, there was not one sound bite, tweet, etc. to be found in favor of Heinicke.  
 

There was plenty of fluff about Wentz after getting him.  Terry specifically said that signing Wentz was a major reason for him to sign an extension.  Wentz held a camp out west where he built great rapport with Dotson.  Jon Allen is on record multiple times talking about how all he’s seen from Wentz is positive and that all the negative stuff is because the league is like high school, and much of it is BS.  After the comeback against the Jags, Wentz spoke in the locker room and the whole team was  celebrating with him.

 

As you can see, said enthusiasm for Wentz didn’t pay much in dividends.

Bottom line, when you win - everyone loves you, no matter how it transpired.  But if Heinicke can’t regularly pull the rabbit out of the hat, the enthusiasm will be hard to find.  That’s not unique to him, that’s just how it is in general.

[Jumbo]

Well all the build up I read aimed at this post is unfortunately wasted.🤪

 

I just kept getting interrupted per normal. 🎃

 

It was fun, though, reading the thread about 30-45 mins prior to the game's 

end, then comparing that overall tone to the posting after the last minute win.😃

 

So here's the highly promoted (undeservedly/ misleadingly😁) post.

 

 

That the forum produces reams of "in-depth" heinie discussion is just a current manifestation of the same kind of stuff and nonsense (big picture wise) as past dazed phases that featured Campbell, Ramsey, Grossman and a number of other future non hofs who've played qb in recent decades. ☺️

 

But it's a football msg board and extended arguing that such posting is "meaningless" or a "waste of time" in the long run may be valid enough but people are going to do such no matter what. It's the nature of people and this particular environment. It's normal.

 

There are those who find doing it rewarding and any flashes of decent performance gives some hope for more days of "better crumbs" from the dinner table that we've long been excluded from, and most of us, no matter what our overarching views of the team may be, can find things to enjoy or appreciate about a win of any form.

 

Yet I easily understand those who bemoan our pattern of winning just enough to be seemingly trapped in endless below average results year after year that lead to too few shots at a top QB too many years.

 

I think most of the pro th posting is silly more often than not, analytically speaking, and a great deal of it based on "arguments" that are more the product of emotional thinking, imagination, myth-creating, and individual subjective biases (even when "using" stats).

 

I also see nothing that could be regarded as some sort of group of posters here who are actual "haters" or are persecuting uber-pro heinie peeps though I see that claim made by those "hive" types who routinely play a false "victimization" card here. Now, conversely, the hive group label is demonstrably based on a real thing and if you think you can credibly debate that then your head is up your ass on the matter. The board has the receipts of mucho premature weak over the top lionization by any solid analytical standard.

 

But I don't feel any compulsive need to jump those folks aggressively or continuously because that would be silly too imv.

 

Colt cults, heinie hive-rs, and rg3 ocders are all real fans doing basic msg board stuff and so are the more hardened or jaded types who aren't enthralled by this year's version of crumbs from the table and really focus on what's needed to make the team a really consistent high quality product.

 

That said, I advise posters to avoid any appearance of trolling or mischaracterizing posted content in their frolicking.😉

 

See you in the NFC championship game where ron and scott's  unique and infallible foresight bear the penultimate fruition!!!! 🤗

 

 

[NickyJ]

11 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Well all the build up I read aimed at this post is unfortunately wasted.🤪

 

I just kept getting interrupted per normal. 🎃

 

It was fun, though, reading the thread about 30-45 mins prior to the games end that comparing that overall tone to after the last minute win.😃

 

So here's the highly promoted (undeservedly/ misleadingly😁) post.

The buildup wasn't wasted. Sure, it didn't have high body counts at the end, but it doesn't need that to be good. It had moxie.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, samy316 said:

Since we're at .500, and tied for the last wild card spot in the NFC, we will not be seeing Wentz back anytime soon (more like ever again).  We'll be riding with Taylor until he gets hurt, then it's Howell's turn.  You can't sacrifice the 2nd round pick by going back to Wentz, so it's the Taylor show until he plays himself out of that spot or he gets hurt.  If we win one of these next two games (Vs. Vikings, @Eagles), then we'll probably be fighting for the wild card until the end of the season.

 

We will definitely need to draft a 1st Round QB this upcoming draft.  We might need to move up in the draft if we want to get one of the top QB's.

Taylor wins next 2 weeks, he’s starting the rest of the way.

 

He loses the next 2 weeks, we are going back to Carson when he’s off ir.

 

Ron will thinks we are in playoff hunt; so he will not play Sam at all this season.

 

If Carson doesn’t come back, Ron will try to bring another vet here. Jimmy, Derrick, Ryan, etc.. Whichever QB is available in free agency or by trade; Ron will get them. Ron will not trade up to get a qb. Ron has to win now, not doing that with a rookie.

 

That drafted 1st round qb, not happening until the post Ron era- whether that still under Dan or a new owner.

 

I think the only way Sam sees the field is injury to both Carson and Taylor. Otherwise it might be late 23; if that’s a lost season.

3 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

Nah. We are going to sign Lamar.

Uh, Lamar not going anywhere next year. Ravens will franchise him. They only way they trade him next year; if trading him lands them a top qb in the 23 draft. 
 

Lamar would never sign here as a free agent and the commies will not be anywhere near having a pick in the top 5.

[88Comrade2000]

If team decides to stick with TH; they should just cut Carson.

[skinsfan93]

35 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So let me get this straight, not one player on the roster from last season made even so much as a whisper that Heinicke should be given a chance to start. Heinicke mania had its time, that came and went.  After perhaps the worst game of football I’ve ever watched against the Giants to end the season, there was not one sound bite, tweet, etc. to be found in favor of Heinicke.  
 

There was plenty of fluff about Wentz after getting him.  Terry specifically said that signing Wentz was a major reason for him to sign an extension.  Wentz held a camp out west where he built great rapport with Dotson.  Jon Allen is on record multiple times talking about how all he’s seen from Wentz is positive and that all the negative stuff is because the league is like high school, and much of it is BS.  After the comeback against the Jags, Wentz spoke in the locker room and the whole team was  celebrating with him.

 

As you can see, said enthusiasm for Wentz didn’t pay much in dividends.

Bottom line, when you win - everyone loves you, no matter how it transpired.  But if Heinicke can’t regularly pull the rabbit out of the hat, the enthusiasm will be hard to find.  That’s not unique to him, that’s just how it is in general.

Do you need glasses?
 

I didn’t say there was zero praise for Wentz and I said during camp not after the trade. The comments from Terry and others were solid but not overly glowing of Wentz. They mostly centered on a strong arm. Of course after a big win, guys are gonna cheer him. 
 

By the way it’s funny your comment on me “I must be new on here”. Just looked and we both joined the board in 2014. I find it ironic how someone so pessimistic averages over one thousand posts each year. I wouldn’t doubt that over 90% of them are negative. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by skinsfan93

[Bloodytusk]

Delusional fanboyism and pessimism are parts of fandom. You tell the fanboy to chill out and the pessimist to lighten up irl. Toxic versions of each may not get an invite back to your house to watch the game. I have no delusions that Heincke will take us to the promise land, but the team winning is fun and I’ll enjoy 4th quarter comebacks even if it’s meaningless (detrimental even) in the longrun.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Heinicke is an enigma.

 

It’s hard to even describe, because he generally plays an awful game of pro football but somehow, some way pulls miracles out of his ass.  
 

I’m not even sure how you put the way he plays into words.  You’re watching and thinking there’s just no good reason this guy should lead a game winning drive, but he’s done it on several occasions.

 

I said this in the gameday thread but I think it’s most appropriate here…

 

Heinicke = Heroin.

 

Intoxicating highs, that are incredibly detrimental to your future.

 

I think what makes Heinicke a hard dude to figure out is he's a weird combination of traits that don't typically fit together.

 

He's really a dink or dunk QB mostly, checkdowns, screens, shallow crossers and because of his limitations both as to accuracy and arm strength -- you watch mostly "meh" boring football sort of a mix of Alex Smith and Colt McCoy.  More Colt than Alex because Alex doesn't throw many picks and Taylor is a pick waiting to happen.

 

But THEN...

 

With the game on the line he will take come chances and get aggressive and let our Wrs win contested ctaches.

 

So the dude is a duo personality.  Dink-dunk watching paint dry level boredom for much of the game, with some really serious valleys in the game but at key moments he has some magic to him -- and if he didn't have a Wr like Terry to make those contested catches, he'd be screwed.  Terry made two big plays for Heinicke last week.  Ditto yesterday.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan93]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's really a dink or dunk QB mostly, checkdowns, screens, shallow crossers and because of his limitations both as to accuracy and arm strength -- you watch mostly "meh" boring football sort of a mix of Alex Smith and Colt McCoy.  More Colt than Alex because Alex doesn't throw many picks and Taylor is a pick waiting to happen.

I mostly agree with you but keep in mind, Heinicke has the equivalent of one full season of starting and didn’t play in a major college conference and is still learning. Not saying he’s the answer but I will give him a bit more slack. 
 

Cousins (and even more frustrating Jason Campbell) were check down charlies even in his 4th year with us and rarely took chances.