The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[tshile]

Never mind - misread it

Edited October 2, 2022 by tshile

[zCommander]

32 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

“I really can’t get a read on Scott Turner with Heinicke/Allen/Gilbert running his offense.”

 

”I really can’t get a read on Wentz with the OLine.”

 

”I really can’t get a read on Rivera with no QB and Snyder as owner.”

 

I sense a pattern among the fan base lol…

 

Interesting. What is your read? lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Interesting. What is your read? lol

All three are “meh” at best lol…that’s my read. 

[skinsmania123]

45 minutes ago, Searchingforaqb said:

As much as I'd like to agree, wentz failed last year in Indy behind a great o line with a great RB

 

I posted this in the game thread

 

 

Wentz is absolutely terrible

 

theres a reason two teams have already offloaded him

 

Slow/No mobility 

Often doesn't set his feet 

Overthrows the ball/can't take speed off the ball

No pocket awareness 

Makes poor decisions like not throwing it away/taking needless sacks 

 

Russell Wilson made a career running from a terrible o line and with a defensive head coach and no superstar WR's 

 

Wentz doesn't improve, he's the exact same scrub he was with an amazing o line and RB in Indy 
 

Yeah he's a big arm, but he's a 1 dimensional dud

He threw for 3,750 yards, with 27 TD's, with 7 INT's last year.  Because he had a good OL. That proves my point. He performed well in the first game because he had an O line that could give him time.  And yes, he had good RB's from what I hear in Indy, but not the caliber of receivers he has here.  You have made the point before about his RB's but is clearly not the whole story.  So, his stats are very good, and I looked at some of his games and it just proves with a decent O line you are going to be effective. 

 

Wentz does try to make things happen when he should just throw the ball away, but when your O line is so ****ty and you have such talent at the receiver position, he is just trying to make something happen. And yeah, that is some boneheaded play, because he has never learned to stop doing it, regardless of what team he is on.

 

Russell had some good receivers, and RB, but a ****ty O line. True. And eventually he left because he had no weapons, and the D scattered to other teams for better contacts/more money. And Wilson has a better deal too now. 

[Riggodrill44]

1 hour ago, Searchingforaqb said:

As much as I'd like to agree, wentz failed last year in Indy behind a great o line with a great RB

 

I posted this in the game thread

 

 

Wentz is absolutely terrible

 

theres a reason two teams have already offloaded him

 

Slow/No mobility 

Often doesn't set his feet 

Overthrows the ball/can't take speed off the ball

No pocket awareness 

Makes poor decisions like not throwing it away/taking needless sacks 

 

Russell Wilson made a career running from a terrible o line and with a defensive head coach and no superstar WR's 

 

Wentz doesn't improve, he's the exact same scrub he was with an amazing o line and RB in Indy 
 

Yeah he's a big arm, but he's a 1 dimensional dud

Wentz was fine last year in Indy. Stop falling for the crazy guy who thinks it’s all about the QB. 
 

Teams wins games, always has always will.

[Searchingforaqb]

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

He threw for 3,750 yards, with 27 TD's, with 7 INT's last year.  Because he had a good OL. That proves my point. He performed well in the first game because he had an O line that could give him time.  And yes, he had good RB's from what I hear in Indy, but not the caliber of receivers he has here.  You have made the point before about his RB's but is clearly not the whole story.  So, his stats are very good, and I looked at some of his games and it just proves with a decent O line you are going to be effective. 

 

Wentz does try to make things happen when he should just throw the ball away, but when your O line is so ****ty and you have such talent at the receiver position, he is just trying to make something happen. And yeah, that is some boneheaded play, because he has never learned to stop doing it, regardless of what team he is on.

 

Russell had some good receivers, and RB, but a ****ty O line. True. And eventually he left because he had no weapons, and the D scattered to other teams for better contacts/more money. And Wilson has a better deal too now. 

 

Not disagreeing with you at all, and letting he oft injured Scherff and Flowers walk looks terrible now (maybe it did at the time too). A lot of the frustration is that settle and Ioannidis also had to go to free up cap room.

 

but quickly on Last season, Taylor led the league in rushing by a mile - 1800+ yds, freeing up wrs a lot, stacking the box etc, helping wentz a lot 

 

trying to piece together a really good o line is so hard in the league while maintaining a top defense and skill position players and have cap room for a qb.

 

You just can't afford to have a qb who can only play behind an elite line.

 

And wentz has been throwing so high this year, especially over the middle, has taken too many sacks, throwing fast balls to the flat when wrs aren't ready. Per my point earlier, he doesn't seem to ever adjust or change.

 

I'd rather be just throws it away then take the sacks/grounding penalties.

 

he gets a lot of praise from me for his toughness, keeping eyes downfield and trying to force it while backpedaling/getting swarmed.
 

But when he has time he just doesn't look consistently good enough.  
 

 

 

 

 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

“I really can’t get a read on Scott Turner with Heinicke/Allen/Gilbert running his offense.”

 

”I really can’t get a read on Wentz with the OLine.”

 

”I really can’t get a read on Rivera with no QB and Snyder as owner.”

 

I sense a pattern among the fan base lol…

That we are all illiterate??

[NoCalMike]

When we say "holding the ball too long" even that is loaded because there is holding the ball too long when you've already had ample time to go through your reads and make a decision, but then there is the appearance of holding the ball too long because the protection is so bad that you almost adjust to that as a viewer and think it should be the norm that every single pass should be thrown within 2 seconds.  That isn't the norm in the NFL.  Yes, does Wentz have culpability on certain plays, sure, I agree, but I actually saw people bringing up Brady stepping up in the pocket as if Brady shrugging off pressure the total of 2-3 times a game it gets anywhere close to him versus being in a situation where every single snap is a danger to your health. 

[Searchingforaqb]

1 hour ago, Riggodrill44 said:

You’re looking for Superman.

How about we get a competent OL and let’s see if Wentz can run this offense. Right now no one can operate throwing 90% of passes behind the line of scrimmage.

we all know this team will never have a good o line/wrs/rb at the same time coupled with a top 15 defense

 

 

this team *needs* superman lol

 

 

[skinsmania123]

3 minutes ago, Searchingforaqb said:

 

Not disagreeing with you at all, and letting he oft injured Scherff and Flowers walk looks terrible now (maybe it did at the time too). A lot of the frustration is that settle and Ioannidis also had to go to free up cap room.

 

but quickly on Last season, Taylor led the league in rushing by a mile - 1800+ yds, freeing up wrs a lot, stacking the box etc, helping wentz a lot 

 

trying to piece together a really good o line is so hard in the league while maintaining a top defense and skill position players and have cap room for a qb.

 

You just can't afford to have a qb who can only play behind an elite line.

 

And wentz has been throwing so high this year, especially over the middle, has taken too many sacks, throwing fast balls to the flat when wrs aren't ready. Per my point earlier, he doesn't seem to ever adjust or change.

 

I'd rather be just throws it away then take the sacks/grounding penalties.

 

he gets a lot of praise from me for his toughness, keeping eyes downfield and trying to force it while backpedaling/getting swarmed.
 

But when he has time he just doesn't look consistently good enough.  
 

 

 

 

 

Good points, particularly about Scheff and Flowers. I do not think Scheff wanted to be here quite frankly, regardless of what he said.   I have noticed the higher throws in this game, and last game with Wentz. And I agree he does not seem to learn and repeats the same pattern.  When he is successful scrambling around and hitting a receiver, I guess he looks heroic and he feels good, but more often than not, it is not working for him, and he can't escape. He is not as quick, as say a Russell Wilson, who seemed to be Houdini, at times when he played in Seattle. And IMO, right now, Wentz is drowning out there, and a large part of it, is what is happening upfront.   I would like to see the staff work on that. Fix that blocking upfront and see where we are. Brian Robinson, if he comes back and is effective running the ball, like he was in the preseason, it may really help a lot. This O line seemed to be effective run blocking in the first half when our RB's ran to the left side. But then i noticed in the second half, they were trying to go up the gut. They never, ever seem to stick with something that works.  

 

[lovemaskins]

I think they should try Cosmi at guard and start the swing tackle at RT.  There has to be a vet we can bring in to backup as the new swing.  Not sure it's fair to judge any qb with the amount of pressure they're getting.  Qbs get gun shy taking that many hits from 260 lbs beasts each week.

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

I think they should try Cosmi at guard and start the swing tackle at RT.  There has to be a vet we can bring in to backup as the new swing.  Not sure it's fair to judge any qb with the amount of pressure they're getting.  Qbs get gun shy taking that many hits from 260 lbs beasts each week.

Keim has implied that that’s a move the team would make in the offseason, more likely (Cosmi to OG), rather than experimenting in-season with moving positions. He said it on twitter but didn’t phrase it like it was inside info or anything—still seemed like an educated guess.

[lovemaskins]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Keim has implied that that’s a move the team would make in the offseason, more likely (Cosmi to OG), rather than experimenting in-season with moving positions. He said it on twitter but didn’t phrase it like it was inside info or anything—still seemed like an educated guess.

See, football isnt that hard.  Where's that resume paper. 🤔 

Edited October 2, 2022 by lovemaskins

[TChaler70]

52 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 He performed well in the first game because he had an O line that could give him time. 

 

What game were you watching? I watched a game where he threw back to back picks while we were up late in a game and for the two middle quarters did absolutely nothing. And this is the highlight game? He is washed, the biggest issue we have bar none!

Edited October 2, 2022 by TChaler70

[skinsmania123]

Just now, TChaler70 said:

What game were you watching? I watched a game where he threw back to back picks while we were up late in a game and for the two middle quarters did absolutely nothing. And this is the highlight game? He is washed, the biggest issue we have bar none!

He also had 4 TD's and 108.7 QBR in the first game. He played very well in the second half of the first game and we won. That is the game I was watching.

[kingdaddy]

If Zappe can play for Belicheck in NE then Howell can play for our losing team in DC. Rip off the band aid Ron. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

If Zappe can play for Belicheck in NE then Howell can play for our losing team in DC. Rip off the band aid Ron. 

I understand the desire, I really do.

 

But, Wentz is a veteran and the pressure has him cooked.  There is great potential with this OL to ‘Ramsey’ Howell.

[Robbob]

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I understand the desire, I really do.

 

But, Wentz is a veteran and the pressure has him cooked.  There is great potential with this OL to ‘Ramsey’ Howell.

if Howell ran for 800 yards last year, he may be accustomed to it.  If nothing else, I see Howell as Heincke with a stronger arm.

And I do agree that Spurrier killed Patrick Ramsey’s confidence, and career.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Robbob said:

if Howell ran for 800 yards last year, he may be accustomed to it.  If nothing else, I see Howell as Heincke with a stronger arm.

Where do you run though when your line is giving  up pressure from multiple places?  I get it, Wentz doesn’t have the wheels anymore.  But I haven’t seen a lot of opportunity for him to take off.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Robbob said:

if Howell ran for 800 yards last year, he may be accustomed to it.  If nothing else, I see Howell as Heincke with a stronger arm.

 

Ron can't put Howell in. He told Wentz he is getting Howell as a project. Can't put Taylor in because well we all know what Taylor is. We will need ride the Wentz train and see where it take us first.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by zCommander

[Jabbyrwock]

16 minutes ago, zCommander said:

We will need ride the Wentz train and see where it take us first.

 

It'll take us all the way to the scene of the crash.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Ron can't put Howell in. He told Wentz he is getting Howell as a project. Can't put Taylor in because well we all know what Taylor is. We will need ride the Wentz train and see where it take us first.

 

Gotta wonder how well Wentz is picking up the offense/playbook....

[Skinsinparadise]

Wentz wasn't good but surprised how harsh Standig is on Wentz here considering he was for the most part ok with the deal

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Citing only 2 sacks and saying they did their job is incredibly disingenuous.  Not sure how anyone can watch the game and make such a statement.   

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Citing only 2 sacks and saying they did their job is incredibly disingenuous.  Not sure how anyone can watch the game and make such a statement.   

 

Agree.  O line was bad.  Is Wentz part of the reason?  I suspect yes.  Some who knew Wentz warned that he takes a lot of sacks and in turn can make the O lines look worse.  But clearly there are issues with the O line irrespective of Wentz.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise