The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DJHJR86]

Am I the only one who never remembered the whole "Carson being Carson" narrative before he played in Indy?  I don't ever remember him as being seen as some reckless gunslinger like Rex Grossman before.  His 2020 season was rough, but that was an outlier year.  

[Carsonfanforlife]

29 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Am I the only one who never remembered the whole "Carson being Carson" narrative before he played in Indy?  I don't ever remember him as being seen as some reckless gunslinger like Rex Grossman before.  His 2020 season was rough, but that was an outlier year.  

You're right that was started in Indy. 2020 was a horrible season for Carson but that was due to many factors that have been discussed at nauseum. People have short memories and seem to go with the most recent trend.

[skinny21]

Don’t recall his exact words, but in his presser post-game, Wentz said he didn’t throw a good ball on Dotson’s 2nd td.  It’s possible he’s changed his tune after watching the film of course. 🤷‍♂️

[HigSkin]

34 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Am I the only one who never remembered the whole "Carson being Carson" narrative before he played in Indy?  I don't ever remember him as being seen as some reckless gunslinger like Rex Grossman before.  His 2020 season was rough, but that was an outlier year.  

 

I think it has to do with going from one darling (Eagles) in the national sports media to another (Indy).

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Don’t recall his exact words, but in his presser post-game, Wentz said he didn’t throw a good ball on Dotson’s 2nd td.  It’s possible he’s changed his tune after watching the film of course. 🤷‍♂️

Yeah I suspect he wanted to lead him a tad outside vs in. Or not under throw as much but in the end a WR usually has to make an adjustment anyways and a slight under throw to the side of the DB is a low INT risk and I contend the smaller WRs dont mind that ball placement. Takes out the risk of throwing it out of bounds and if a safety is coming over it can help protect them.  Remember preseason Dyami right side end zone high throw... didn't work for him. A low throw these more finesse WRs also get to use the ole' bread basket to catch it. Football fits right in there perfectly.

Edited September 16, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Captain James]

I legit forgot that Carson is only 29yo. Younger than several QBs we could have ended up with. Neat.

[TheShredder]

One week is a glimpse. Two weeks is a trend. Three weeks is expectation.

If the offense repeats with similar results and they win, then they're on a roll going forward.

It's that consistency that they've been talking about. I perceived Wentz really needing to get on a roll as the #1 key to him being successful.

Another W and it starts to get interesting. Watch all the haters rally then!

[Mrshadow008]

57 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

One week is a glimpse. Two weeks is a trend. Three weeks is expectation.

If the offense repeats with similar results and they win, then they're on a roll going forward.

It's that consistency that they've been talking about. I perceived Wentz really needing to get on a roll as the #1 key to him being successful.

Another W and it starts to get interesting. Watch all the haters rally then!

Love the sentiment but I think we need to beat the lions and Philly to start getting some respect. We got this though 😁

[Indi1988]

I feel like Carson’s ability to brush off those two back to back picks and throw back to back touchdowns could be the spring board to a great season. 
 

i was at the game and the feeling of dread was palpable after the turnovers. The story lines of how he crumbled to the same team that got him jettisoned out of Indy would have been non stop. Instant endless negativity after just 1 game.

We’ve been starving for a quarterback and the city is right here for the taking for Carson if he balls out. On to Detroit!!

[mudhog]

11 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I may be alone but i kind of liked the placement on Dots 2nd TD.

You are not alone. that was a sick touch on that ball!

[wit33]

I’ve watched a lot of bad offense and witnessed many average joes run around for Washington over the last 20 or so years to notice when that’s no longer the case. Washington offense is for real and going to be a problem for all opponents. 
 

Im not a coach, but have achieved mastery  in understanding what bad and below average offense looks like. 

[CommanderCarson]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

I’ve watched a lot of bad offense and witnessed many average joes run around for Washington over the last 20 or so years to notice when that’s no longer the case. Washington offense is for real and going to be a problem for all opponents. 
 

Im not a coach, but have achieved mastery  in understanding what bad and below average offense looks like. 

Haha ain’t that the truth, I’ve actually started to explain to people that we may legitimately have a really good offense and I haven’t even contemplated that thought in about 7 years. We’ll see, just one game. But throughout training camp and then game one I couldn’t help but think we had a ton of dynamic options and it’s going to be hard to account for all of them.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I heard on the Galdi podcast the Commanders called pass plays on 67% of their offensive plays, if you remove the kneel downs.  

 

Gee, I wonder if there was a poster on this board who was BEGGING for them to run the offense through Carson, and throw between 65-70% of plays. 

 

That poster was told that was too much, Carson would throw up on himself, that would lead the league, it's better to be "balanced" (More on that in a bit), and somewhat mocked. Blah Blah Blah....

 

From that poster to all of the numb nuts who wanted to protect Carson and run the ball: YOU LOSE. 

 

For one week, and one week only, Scott called the offense I wanted to see him called, and it worked.  They scored 28 points. 

 

Carson had one really bad mistake, the first interception.  The thing is, he did 2 things on that play which he's not really known for: he stared the receiver down and was late to the read.  That could be just inexperience in the offense giving him a memory glitch.  We'll see. I also said I expected a few glitches early, since this is an entirely different offensive base and terminology than anything Carson has played in before.  Switching from the WCO offense language and concepts to the Coryell number-based offense and concepts is like going French to Spanish.  There are similarities (both romance languages) but all the words and grammar are different.  

 

The second interception was not a great decision or throw, but there has been some conversation Gibson wasn't where he was supposed to be, and it was an awesome defensive play.  I think that one is more "eh, bad luck."  

 

A note on "balance."  Scott said something this week which I loved.  He made a riff on the iconic (and so amazingly correct) quote from Mike Leach: "There's nothing balanced about 50% run and 50% pass. That's 50% stupid."  Scott said that balance was getting the ball to all of the playmakers so defenses didn't know what was coming.  My heart swelled with love and pride.  We finally have an OC that seems to get it.  And he probably wanted to do it sooner, but because he had to cater to (in 2020) Haskins who didn't know the playbook, Peg Leg Smith who couldn't move and had lost a ton of arm strength, Kyle Allen (in 2021) Noodle Armed Taylor Heinicke who can't drive the ball into tight windows, outside the hash marks, or down field, it limited him significantly.  

 

More of this.  It should just get better.  (Unless this was a total mirage and the wheels are about to come off.  Which, with this franchise, is always a possibility.)

[Mrshadow008]

51 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I heard on the Galdi podcast the Commanders called pass plays on 67% of their offensive plays, if you remove the kneel downs.  

 

Gee, I wonder if there was a poster on this board who was BEGGING for them to run the offense through Carson, and throw between 65-70% of plays. 

 

That poster was told that was too much, Carson would throw up on himself, that would lead the league, it's better to be "balanced" (More on that in a bit), and somewhat mocked. Blah Blah Blah....

 

From that poster to all of the numb nuts who wanted to protect Carson and run the ball: YOU LOSE. 

 

For one week, and one week only, Scott called the offense I wanted to see him called, and it worked.  They scored 28 points. 

 

Carson had one really bad mistake, the first interception.  The thing is, he did 2 things on that play which he's not really known for: he stared the receiver down and was late to the read.  That could be just inexperience in the offense giving him a memory glitch.  We'll see. I also said I expected a few glitches early, since this is an entirely different offensive base and terminology than anything Carson has played in before.  Switching from the WCO offense language and concepts to the Coryell number-based offense and concepts is like going French to Spanish.  There are similarities (both romance languages) but all the words and grammar are different.  

 

The second interception was not a great decision or throw, but there has been some conversation Gibson wasn't where he was supposed to be, and it was an awesome defensive play.  I think that one is more "eh, bad luck."  

 

A note on "balance."  Scott said something this week which I loved.  He made a riff on the iconic (and so amazingly correct) quote from Mike Leach: "There's nothing balanced about 50% run and 50% pass. That's 50% stupid."  Scott said that balance was getting the ball to all of the playmakers so defenses didn't know what was coming.  My heart swelled with love and pride.  We finally have an OC that seems to get it.  And he probably wanted to do it sooner, but because he had to cater to (in 2020) Haskins who didn't know the playbook, Peg Leg Smith who couldn't move and had lost a ton of arm strength, Kyle Allen (in 2021) Noodle Armed Taylor Heinicke who can't drive the ball into tight windows, outside the hash marks, or down field, it limited him significantly.  

 

More of this.  It should just get better.  (Unless this was a total mirage and the wheels are about to come off.  Which, with this franchise, is always a possibility.)

I wanna add something to the second interception. Go back and watch the play. Leno pass blocks on the play instead of playing it like a lineman would play a normal screen pass and actually basically blocks Walker right into the path of the play. The interception looks really egregious in real time and at full speed but when you actually look at it very little of it is actually on Carson. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I heard on the Galdi podcast the Commanders called pass plays on 67% of their offensive plays, if you remove the kneel downs.  

 

Gee, I wonder if there was a poster on this board who was BEGGING for them to run the offense through Carson, and throw between 65-70% of plays. 

 

That poster was told that was too much, Carson would throw up on himself, that would lead the league, it's better to be "balanced" (More on that in a bit), and somewhat mocked. Blah Blah Blah....

 

From that poster to all of the numb nuts who wanted to protect Carson and run the ball: YOU LOSE. 

 

For one week, and one week only, Scott called the offense I wanted to see him called, and it worked.  They scored 28 points. 

 

Carson had one really bad mistake, the first interception.  The thing is, he did 2 things on that play which he's not really known for: he stared the receiver down and was late to the read.  That could be just inexperience in the offense giving him a memory glitch.  We'll see. I also said I expected a few glitches early, since this is an entirely different offensive base and terminology than anything Carson has played in before.  Switching from the WCO offense language and concepts to the Coryell number-based offense and concepts is like going French to Spanish.  There are similarities (both romance languages) but all the words and grammar are different.  

 

The second interception was not a great decision or throw, but there has been some conversation Gibson wasn't where he was supposed to be, and it was an awesome defensive play.  I think that one is more "eh, bad luck."  

 

A note on "balance."  Scott said something this week which I loved.  He made a riff on the iconic (and so amazingly correct) quote from Mike Leach: "There's nothing balanced about 50% run and 50% pass. That's 50% stupid."  Scott said that balance was getting the ball to all of the playmakers so defenses didn't know what was coming.  My heart swelled with love and pride.  We finally have an OC that seems to get it.  And he probably wanted to do it sooner, but because he had to cater to (in 2020) Haskins who didn't know the playbook, Peg Leg Smith who couldn't move and had lost a ton of arm strength, Kyle Allen (in 2021) Noodle Armed Taylor Heinicke who can't drive the ball into tight windows, outside the hash marks, or down field, it limited him significantly.  

 

More of this.  It should just get better.  (Unless this was a total mirage and the wheels are about to come off.  Which, with this franchise, is always a possibility.)

Yeah I basically agree with all of this except I still think the 2nd pick was a bad decision by Wentz(but one that usually doesn't result in an interception). 

 

Running the ball is mostly obsolete in today's NFL. You pass pass pass and only run when its a short yardage(which nowadays is 1 yard or less, even 3rd and 2 is a pass play)orgoal line situation or you're in obvious kill clock mode. 

 

Its a passing league now. For years we were bringing knives to a gun fight. Now we're bringing artillery fire. Game on.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Warhead36

[Zim489]

It was the Jags with a completely new staff. Lets pump the breaks. Due to his injury history I have my doubts that hes the long term answer. Having said that it is nice to actually see an NFL QB for the first time in 5 years. Not that garbage conservative BS that we had with Alex onwards. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

It was the Jags with a completely new staff. Lets pump the breaks. Due to his injury history I have my doubts that hes the long term answer. Having said that it is nice to actually see an NFL QB for the first time in 5 years. Not that garbage conservative BS that we had with Alex onwards. 

Wentz hasn't missed a game due to injury since 2018. He was knocked out of the first round playoff game in 2019-2020 because of a super dirty hit by Clowney. He's also only 29 and in today's NFL QBs are often hitting their strides in their mid 30s(see Rodgers, Stafford, friggin Brady etc.).

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

It was the Jags with a completely new staff. Lets pump the breaks. Due to his injury history I have my doubts that hes the long term answer. Having said that it is nice to actually see an NFL QB for the first time in 5 years. Not that garbage conservative BS that we had with Alex onwards. 

You realize he hasn't missed a game since 2018 due to injury right?  

 

The injury history thing is a complete joke of an excuse.  Dude played the entire 2019 season and got the Eagles to the playoffs with a late season run (and won comeback player of the year).  Then was literally the only healthy eagle in 2020, despite going 13 rounds with Mike Tyson every week, and still played.  Didn't miss a game in 2021.  

 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Gee, I wonder if there was a poster on this board who was BEGGING for them to run the offense through Carson, and throw between 65-70% of plays. 

 

I have no recollection of this event. 😬 

[Simmsy]

Felt like the Jags game could go either way, like we should win, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had lost. I felt better about the Lions game after week one, but not good about it. Honestly, I bought into the media hype a bit about how awesome the Lions are or potentially could be. However, when you really look at the Lions, they're not that impressive. They were the darlings of Hard Knocks...that is why a lot of pundits are picking them. They like them. One guys said, "They were bad last year, they can only get better". Think about that, they were so bad, that that makes them better than us, because we were better than them last year.

 

Looking at it objectively and seeing all the info coming out of Detroit, I think we've got this.

[Rex Tomb]

32 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

Felt like the Jags game could go either way, like we should win, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had lost. I felt better about the Lions game after week one, but not good about it. Honestly, I bought into the media hype a bit about how awesome the Lions are or potentially could be. However, when you really look at the Lions, they're not that impressive. They were the darlings of Hard Knocks...that is why a lot of pundits are picking them. They like them. One guys said, "They were bad last year, they can only get better". Think about that, they were so bad, that that makes them better than us, because we were better than them last year.

 

Looking at it objectively and seeing all the info coming out of Detroit, I think we've got this.

As long as Turner doesn’t take his foot off the gas, I think we easily rack up over 30 points.  Makes me think this could be the highest scoring game in quite a while for us.

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I heard on the Galdi podcast the Commanders called pass plays on 67% of their offensive plays, if you remove the kneel downs.  

 

Gee, I wonder if there was a poster on this board who was BEGGING for them to run the offense through Carson, and throw between 65-70% of plays. 

 

That poster was told that was too much, Carson would throw up on himself, that would lead the league, it's better to be "balanced" (More on that in a bit), and somewhat mocked. Blah Blah Blah....

 

From that poster to all of the numb nuts who wanted to protect Carson and run the ball: YOU LOSE. 

 

For one week, and one week only, Scott called the offense I wanted to see him called, and it worked.  They scored 28 points. 

 

 

Twisting the numbers and narrative to get to that point.

 

Even for just week 1 our pass ratio was 60%

That is with the absolute handicaps in passing's favor of both losing our lead running back before the season and the only game on our record being one where we were down what turned out to be multiple scores in the 4th Qtr. We pretty much had to pass.

 

Fully expect things to slant further in rushing's favor as we incorporate other games where we are both not forced into obvious pass happy situations and regain our full compliment of RBs. It will normalize as the season rolls on, might have to wait till B-Rob comes back for the biggest impact however.

 

I certainly didn't predict the loss of our lead back which greatly hurts the balance, but we are still very much in the wheelhouse to be a top 10 rushing % O by the time the season wraps as we are not very far away from it even in a tremendous pass favored time-frame.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Twisting the numbers and narrative to get to that point.

 

Even for just week 1 our pass ratio was 60%

That is with the absolute handicaps in passing's favor of both losing our lead running back before the season and the only game on our record being one where we were down what turned out to be multiple scores in the 4th Qtr. We pretty much had to pass.

 

Fully expect things to slant further in rushing's favor as we incorporate other games where we are both not forced into obvious pass happy situations and regain our full compliment of RBs. It will normalize as the season rolls on, might have to wait till B-Rob comes back for the biggest impact however.

 

I certainly didn't predict the loss of our lead back which greatly hurts the balance, but we are still very much in the wheelhouse to be a top 10 rushing % O by the time the season wraps as we are not very far away from it even in a tremendous pass favored time-frame.

 

Galdi broke it down:  take the pass attempts, + 1 sack (which was a called pass play) + 3 scrambles  (which we’re all called pass plays = 67% called passes.   The 3 kneel downs were eliminated altogether, from both run and pass ratio.  
 

If you have a problem with that math, I don’t know what to tell you.  67% of the offensive plays which were called were pass plays . There isn’t any other way to do the math.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If you have a problem with that math, I don’t know what to tell you.  67% of the offensive plays which were called were pass plays . There isn’t any other way to do the math.  

 

100% of those plays were called sans access to our lead back.

That does not justify an offfseason narrative when we had access to all our weapons.

 

It'll normalize w/ time

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

100% of those plays were called sans access to our lead back.

That does not justify an offfseason narrative when we had access to all our weapons.

 

It'll normalize w/ time

So, first let's just state that you BLATANTLY moved the goalposts.  The post I responded to, you said: 

 

Quote

Twisting the numbers and narrative to get to that point.

 

Even for just week 1 our pass ratio was 60%

That is with the absolute handicaps in passing's favor of both losing our lead running back before the season and the only game on our record being one where we were down what turned out to be multiple scores in the 4th Qtr. We pretty much had to pass.

 

Fully expect things to slant further in rushing's favor as we incorporate other games where we are both not forced into obvious pass happy situations and regain our full compliment of RBs. It will normalize as the season rolls on, might have to wait till B-Rob comes back for the biggest impact however.

 

 

Then when I provided IRRUFUTABLE EVIDENCE that I did not skew or twist numbers, you decided you'd go with "yeah but Robinson was out and THAT'S the reason they leaned on the pass."  

 

Dude.  For one week, and for now, only one week, your prediction, for whatever reason, was dead wrong.  Will it normalize?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Scott has said he is going to tailor the offense to take advantage of the defense they are playing, so maybe there are weeks they run more, run less.

 

However, I think it has been crystal clear since they got Wentz and drafted Dotson, they wanted to be a "press the ball down the field" pass-first offense.  You disagree.  So far, I'm right, you're wrong. That might change.  I don't know.  Turner did say that when studying the Jax DC, the whole defense was predicated on stopping the first down run.  So even if Robinson had been there, would they have run more?  I actually doubt it.  

 

As for the "passed more because we were behind" argument, that's also factually incorrect.  Look at the drive chart and half summaries below.  They actually called passes in the first half at a higher percentage in the first half than second half.  And up to the point when they lost the lead, they were calling 68% passes.  

 

You might say this changes with Robinson.  I say it probably doesn't.  If they wanted to run the ball between the tackles to take advantage of a Jax defense, they would have done so with either Gibson, who did it a ton last year, and honestly didn't suck, or Williams, or both.  They didn't want to.  So they didn't.  That's pretty clear as well.  

 

Drive 1:  6 called passes, 2 called passes.  8 Plays results in a TD.

Drive 2: 10 called passes, 4 called rus.  14 plays, results in a TD.  NOTE: there were 2 defensive penalties resulting in no-plays, and I didn't include either in the count.  Both were passes.  One was a defensive off-sides, the other was complete to McKissic but they got a roughing the passes, and took the penalty instead of the completion. Both penalties were followed by pass-plays.

Drive 3: 2 called passes, 1 called run.  This is the first drive that started with a run on first down, -1 yard.  I HATE FIRST DOWN RUNS. 

Drive 4:  5 called passes, 3 called runs. 8 plays. (The first run of this drive was a 1st down run for 13 yards.  Which made me concede that it's ok to run on 1st down SOMETIMES, but only if it works.   This drive resulted in the Samuel fumble.  Until then, it was 58 yards, and they got to the Jax 39.

Drive 5: Knee, end of half.  (This play is excluded from everything)

 

In the first half, with the lead, they called 23 passes to 10 runs.  Or 69%

-- HALF --

Drive 6: 4 pass plays called, 1 run.  5 plays.  There was a sack on this drive.  But it was a called pass play.  This was probably the worst drive of the game, FWIW.

Drive 7: 3 called pass plays, 2 called pass plays.  This was the drop by Bates on the 3rd down which would have extended the drive.  

Drive 8: 2 called pass plays, 2 called run plays.  This resulted in the first Interception.  

***** Up to this point, the Commanders were leading.  After this, Jax kicked a FG to take the lead.  

To this point, there were 32 called pass plays, and 15 run plays.  That's 68% called pass plays while having the lead. 

Drive 9: 1 called pass play.  This is Interception number 2.  

Drive 10: 4 called Pass Plays.  This resulted in the McLaurin TD Bomb.  

Drive 11: 9 called pass plays, 5 called run plays. 14 plays, resulted in the Dotson TD to re-take the lead.  

Drive 12: 2 run plays called, 2 knees (Not counted either way)

 

-- END OF GAME.

In the second half, there were 22 passes, and 12 run plays.  Or 64%.  

 

So, you hypothesis that it was the comeback which skewed the numbers is FACTUALLY INCORRECT.  

 

They called pass plays early and often.