The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

What I want is the Colts to have a losing season. It's time the Colts go back to their pre Manning ways.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

10 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

Here’s a link:

 

 

I hate how Schrager says " you don't hear current or former players say my guy Carson. " Feeding into the false narrative of him being a locker room problem. I remember several Colts players defending him after the trade. Sounded like a lot of teammates liked him a lot. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

A blurb on our mamoth 4th string howitzer armed qb...

 

 

Cole Kelley, QB, Southeast Louisiana

 

Washington landed two of Brugler’s top 12 quarterback prospects from the 2022 class, starting with fifth-round pick Sam Howell.

 

Kelley, a 6-foot-7, 249-pound behemoth, tallied video-game-like stats last season en route to being selected Southland Conference player of the year.

 

He completed 73.6 percent of his passes for 5,124 yards and 44 touchdown passes and led the Lions with 491 rushing yards and another 16 touchdowns. Kelley is a potential practice-squad project for QB coach Ken Zampese.

 

Brugler: “Overall, Kelley has imposing physical traits (size, arm strength, quick movements) with remarkable production, but he got away with some bad habits at the FCS-level and will need to find better rhythm to survive in the NFL.

 

His game gives off strong Cardale Jones vibes.”

[JSSkinz]

6 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

This is not quite what I heard from Cooley. The comps he mentioned were Josh Allen and Mayfield (also mentioned young Grossman, strong armed Heineke, and Drew Lock). He mostly blamed Howell’s supporting cast, and also mentioned he didn’t watch last year’s film. Biggest negatives were size and “extra movement” in the pocket. There’s a part of me that thinks Cooley puts a lot of stock in QB size. I thought it was interesting that Cooley believes Howell is the starter if Wentz goes down.

When you said he comp'd him to Josh Allen I had to go back and listen again and I didn't hear him say that, I heard him comp him to Heinicke, Grossman, and Mayfield.  IMO he mentioned a lot more negatives than positives and his final synopsis was "I don't know if his high end is in the top 15, actually I do know his high end is not in the top 15, best case is he's just a guy."

 

I have no opinion on Howell, just trying to figure out what he's all about but its always nice to hear some excitement from Cooley when he breaks down film, like he did when he broke down Dotson

Edited May 7, 2022 by JSSkinz

[FootballZombie]

Dude was asked point blank in an interview if Wentz would still be on the team if they beat Jax. He responded by saying the team would have likely had some tough conversations and choices due to poor play late in the season.

 

That's like burying a guy w/ a toy shovel. Your not even going to get deeper than his ankles.

 

 

Compared to the other stuff this is nothing. We had reports about the coach apologizing for sticking his neck out for the guy. That is burying someone, not this.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

What I want is the Colts to have a losing season. It's time the Colts go back to their pre Manning ways.

I doubt they have a losing season because they are too good.  UNLESS ‘OL man Ryan is completely washed up.  
 

They do have some interesting opponents though.  Obviously they have their division, with the Titans and the defending champs, but I keep waiting for them to implode.  Maybe they are better than I think they are, but who knows.  Then they have the Jags and the Texans, neither of which look to be really good, though both might be better. My bet is they go 4-2 in division.  Split with Tenn and Jax, sweep titans.  
 

Then they play the AFC West.  That’s tough.  I think they could go 1-3 in those games.  
 

Then they play the NFC East.  2-2.  They lose to us and somebody, (Irsay’s head explodes, and I will cry like a baby when Ron hands Carson the game ball.) 

 

That would get them to 7 and 7.  
 

They’re remaining games are Pitt (at home) at the Patriots and Vikings.

 

They’re either a 8-9 or 9-8 team.   
 

Caveat: I did this as a complete joke because I don’t believe in ever playing the schedule game.  You never know how good a team will be week to week. Teams get better, teams regress, injuries happen.  

 

But they play a bunch of good QBs.  
 

So maybe it’s true?  

4 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I hate how Schrager says " you don't hear current or former players say my guy Carson. " Feeding into the false narrative of him being a locker room problem. I remember several Colts players defending him after the trade. Sounded like a lot of teammates liked him a lot. 

Chris Ling was on Galdi and said he really likes Carson.  FWIW.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

36 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Dude was asked point blank in an interview if Wentz would still be on the team if they beat Jax. He responded by saying the team would have likely had some tough conversations and choices due to poor play late in the season.

 

That's like burying a guy w/ a toy shovel. Your not even going to get deeper than his ankles.

 

 

Compared to the other stuff this is nothing. We had reports about the coach apologizing for sticking his neck out for the guy. That is burying someone, not this.

Evidently Jacksonville has beaten them for the last 6 seasons. So Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers struggled vs them too. I wonder why they weren't heavily criticized about it like Carson has been.

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Evidently Jacksonville has beaten them for the last 6 seasons. So Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers struggled vs them too. I wonder why they weren't heavily criticized about it like Carson has been.

 

Luck and Rivers retired and Wentz was traded. That is the difference. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Evidently Jacksonville has beaten them for the last 6 seasons. So Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers struggled vs them too. I wonder why they weren't heavily criticized about it like Carson has been.

What I don’t understand is why Reich didn’t get the ire?  
 

I mean, the entire team was flat.  The Colts defense let the Jags do down the field on their opening possession and score a TD.  
 

They got stopped on a number of short down runs.  
 

Carson was bad.

 

The first place I’d look when a team that was favored comes out completely flat in all phases of the game is the coach.  
 

Here’s my Tin Foil Gat theory:  Irsay really didn’t like Wentz from the get go.  For whatever reason.  
 

Reich and Ballard used that and let Irsay get spun up about Wentz and probably gas-lit him a bit.

 

They shifted Blake from themselves to Wentz.  They were happy to crush him to take the spotlight off of themselves.

 

the Colts will  miss the playoffs next year Unless they win their division, getting in is going to be TOUGH for any team with 3 good teams in the West (the 4th being the division winner), at least 2 (Baltimore and Cincy) in the North, and maybe NE (Though I put them at the same level as the Colts) in the east. 
 

That’s 3 spots for 6-7 teams, and that’s with no surprises like Miami jumping into the fray….

 

The Ballard/Reich era will have brought them nothing. At some point Irsay will wise up and fire both of them.  

 

They need to get to the playoffs in one of the next 2 years and they probably won’t.  

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Luck and Rivers retired and Wentz was traded. That is the difference. 

Also, Luck was golden boy #1 pick in the draft.

 

Rivers got them into the playoffs I believe.

 

Wentz was an easier target.

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Evidently Jacksonville has beaten them for the last 6 seasons. So Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers struggled vs them too. I wonder why they weren't heavily criticized about it like Carson has been.

 

That's got nothing to do w/ what I'm talking about

 

If Wentz is building a list of material to put on his bulletin board, what Ballad said yesterday isnt even in the maybe pile. He spoke in terms of the team playing poorly and tried not to single out Wentz when asked directly about him. He didn't even bring the topic up, it was thrown into his lap by the interviewer. He also didn't flat out say they would dump him, just that they would have needed to have some "hard conversations". That is almost the most polite way of referring to situation.

 

You don't have to look far or wide for major Wentz slights, but what Ballad said yesterday was nothing compared to the other stuff that is out there. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by FootballZombie

[HoggLife]

6 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

What I want is the Colts to have a losing season. It's time the Colts go back to their pre Manning ways.

Yup. As long as they have tha5 stupid owner they are on my hate list now.

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That's got nothing to do w/ what I'm talking about

 

If Wentz is building a list of material to put on his bulletin board, what Ballad said yesterday isnt even in the maybe pile. He spoke in terms of the team playing poorly and tried not to single out Wentz when asked directly about him. He didn't even bring the topic up, it was thrown into his lap by the interviewer. He also didn't flat out say they would dump him, just that they would have needed to have some "hard conversations". That is almost the most polite way of referring to situation.

 

You don't have to look far or wide for major Wentz slights, but what Ballad said yesterday was nothing compared to the other stuff that is out there. 

 

 

The NFL is weird in that somehow there are bad teams who somehow match up really well. The Giants, by and large, have been a bad team for a long time. As bad and probably worse than Washington. Still, they've had our number. For whatever reason, we really struggle against them.

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

When you said he comp'd him to Josh Allen I had to go back and listen again and I didn't hear him say that, I heard him comp him to Heinicke, Grossman, and Mayfield.  IMO he mentioned a lot more negatives than positives and his final synopsis was "I don't know if his high end is in the top 15, actually I do know his high end is not in the top 15, best case is he's just a guy."

 

I have no opinion on Howell, just trying to figure out what he's all about but its always nice to hear some excitement from Cooley when he breaks down film, like he did when he broke down Dotson

 

He absolutely said he reminds him of Josh Allen in college. Right in the beginning of when he’s talking about Howell. He didn’t totally compare them. But he said they had a common criticism: they didn’t have time to throw from the pocket because the OL was so bad.

[FootballZombie]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

The NFL is weird in that somehow there are bad teams who somehow match up really well. The Giants, by and large, have been a bad team for a long time. As bad and probably worse than Washington. Still, they've had our number. For whatever reason, we really struggle against them.

 

I don't doubt that, in fact its quite true.

 

What I'm saying is there are far better examples of Wentz disparaging than Ballad saying they would have to partake in some hard conversations about QB even if they reached the playoffs. What happened in that game, or previous games does not matter too much in such a discussion. The Colts history w/ the Jags has no effect on what Ballad said yesterday not being nearly as incendiary as some of the other stuff that has been spoken. By comparison his words were tepid at best.

 

 

This is the second time someone has tried to rationalize that game in a response to my line of thinking about Ballads words. If multiple people see my claim about his interview as some kind of statement that purely focuses on Indy getting beat by Jax, then I'll have to be clearer in the future as that was not my intent at all.

[Burgold]

This is a little out of the blue, but it's something I've wondered about. Why can't a QB without a strong arm develop a strong arm? The big talk about Heinike is that he couldn't get it done because he doesn't have an NFL arm even though he is good at reading defenses and has all the other intangibles. Well, why can't a QB get an NFL arm? Isn't that what weight rooms are for? Isn't that what proper technique is for? I often read that linemen when they come into the league need to get stronger. Heck, I read that about every position. Why is an arm uniquely incapable of change?

 

This isn't to say that Heinike could or should be our future. I think he maxxed out and was a great Cinderella story, but he seemed to show us what he can and can't do last year and what he couldn't do won. I think he's a great hustle guy and that's who you want for a back up. Regardless, the arm-question is one I've wondered about.

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

 

This is the second time someone has tried to rationalize that game in a response to my line of thinking about Ballads words. If multiple people see my claim about his interview as some kind of statement that purely focuses on Indy getting beat by Jax, then I'll have to be clearer in the future as that was not my intent at all.

Your post was great. I misquoted you. I was actually responding to the quote you quoted about the Jags have had the Colts number for 6 years despite being one of the NFL's worst teams over the last six years.

[Thinking Skins]

https://twitter.com/CommandersNFL_/status/1522659896721821697?t=O9KfApen3HxW_r2xAFCaWQ&s=19

 

Carson Wentz ranked top 10 in adjusted EPA/play during the 4th/OT.

 

The Colts defense ranked 27th in defensive EPA during that same span of the football game. https://t.co/oKRfja1eBd

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Thinking Skins

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

This is a little out of the blue, but it's something I've wondered about. Why can't a QB without a strong arm develop a strong arm?

 

Complicated and there is no one answer, but there are a couple things that need to be kept in mind about this topic.

 

First, some dudes are just different. If you ever learned anything about Michael Phelps anatomy (Good God, its truly insane https://www.biography.com/news/michael-phelp-perfect-body-swimming ) this makes a ton of sense. Some guys build simply provides a naturally powerful lever for throwing things. Other guys just have the ability to more easily build muscle, or the attachment sites for bigger ones.

 

Second, throwing is rarely just about arm strength alone. Even if you throw a pass from your butt, your working the majority of the muscles in your body. A proper throw for a QB uses all of them.

 

Third, additional weight can be very problematic very quickly. Force is multiplied at the end of a lever and your body is unique to you in what it is built to handle. Even a slight increase in mass of an arm will lead to a significant increase in the strain placed on various joints/areas thanks to this multiplicative effect. If TH Hulks out to the point where he can launch Mahomie level heat, but his joints are only built for his current weight range... he would be on a freight train to Tommy John's city. His joints would simply go bye-bye if they were constantly facing pressures they just were not created to handle. 

 

 

There is probably always room to get a little bit stronger, baseball pitchers adding a touch more heat is a great example, but everyone can't turn into the guy with the cannon on his arm, at least not without risking severe damage.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

This is a little out of the blue, but it's something I've wondered about. Why can't a QB without a strong arm develop a strong arm? The big talk about Heinike is that he couldn't get it done because he doesn't have an NFL arm even though he is good at reading defenses and has all the other intangibles. Well, why can't a QB get an NFL arm? I

 

I am not an expert on this but from playing sports myself for fun nothing serious -- but my take is getting velocity on the ball its more about your hip motion-shoulders-lats -- but its not all about strength but about having some looseness-flexibility in your body motion.   And much of that is just natural ability that you at some point maximize once you are in your 20s.

 

I recall Colt McCoy saying he worked on his arm strength and the WP one off season was selling it.  I went to training camp that summer and watched Colt and Kirk throw back to back -- and you'd think Kirk was John Elway on steriods when seeing the differences between the two.  Colt to me looked the same.  I posted on the board, that this new improved Colt arm is BS.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What I don’t understand is why Reich didn’t get the ire?  
 

I mean, the entire team was flat.  The Colts defense let the Jags do down the field on their opening possession and score a TD.  
 

They got stopped on a number of short down runs.  
 

Carson was bad.

 

The first place I’d look when a team that was favored comes out completely flat in all phases of the game is the coach.  

 

According to a Colts reporter I listened to was there was a build up all season that Carson didn't play well in big moments during the games.  

 

Cosell who is actually a fan of Wentz said he noticed that as the season progressed the Colts pushed the game more on an more on Jonathan Taylor's shoulders and didn't seem to trust Wentz in big spots.

 

I know there are some stats that show Wentz played good in the 4th quarter and on third downs.  But the reporter did make this point with some conviction.  I don't recall all the details but he got into some specific games where they were hoping Wentz would deliver in big spots and he didn't in their minds.  

 

So I think the Jacksonville gaem was the icing on the cake for them.  I think when Irsay said he talked to players and they weren't surprised about the collapse it centered on this point.  

 

I like the Wentz deal and it should be fun to watch.  But to be fair to the Indy narrative, I know its deeper than just the Jacksonville game -- to some of the negative nellies in that building that game summarized to them the Wentz experience which to them is that he's not a leader of men and doesn't come through when the lights are brightest.

 

Keim makes a good point IMO about the Colts which is they've been spolied some as to their QBs either as to play or leadership.  They got Rivers for a season but he did help take them to the playoffs and was know as a big time leader.  Andrew Luck was good and clutch. Peyton, etc.  Carson on the other hand here isn't actually following much greatness.  So the expectations aren't likely what he had in Indy.

 

My thought is even if what the naysayers in Indy believe about Wentz is true, why not give the dude another shot based on talent alone?

Edited May 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

According to a Colts reporter I listened to was there was a build up all season that Carson didn't play well in big moments during the games.  

 

Cosell who is actually a fan of Wentz said he noticed that as the season progressed the Colts pushed the game more on an more on Jonathan Taylor's shoulders and didn't seem to trust Wentz in big spots.

 

I know there are some stats that show Wentz played good in the 4th quarter and on third downs.  But the reporter did make this point with some conviction.  I don't recall all the details but he got into some specific games where they were hoping Wentz would deliver in big spots and he didn't in their minds.  

 

So I think the Jacksonville gaem was the icing on the cake for them.  I think when Irsay said he talked to players and they weren't surprised about the collapse it centered on this point.  

 

I like the Wentz deal and it should be fun to watch.  But to be fair to the Indy narrative, I know its deeper than just the Jacksonville game -- to some of the negative nellies in that building that game summarized to them the Wentz experience which to them is that he's not a leader of men and doesn't come through when the lights are brightest.

 

Keim makes a good point IMO about the Colts which is they've been spolied some as to their QBs either as to play or leadership.  They got Rivers for a season but he did help take them to the playoffs and was know as a big time leader.  Andrew Luck was good and clutch. Peyton, etc.  Carson on the other hand here isn't actually following much greatness.  So the expectations aren't likely what he had in Indy.

 

My thought is even if what the naysayers in Indy believe about Wentz is true, why not give the dude another shot based on talent alone?

 

 

Heck, Bruce (for all of his faults) moved on quickly from Kirk and never said anything bad about him publicly after trading for Alex.  Randy Mueller (former NFL GM) was on twitter and said why are the Colts continuing to badmouth Wentz?  He was like just move on.  It seems pretty classless.  Just say something to the effect of it didn't work out and we wish him the best.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Heck, Bruce (for all of his faults) moved on quickly from Kirk and never said anything bad about him publicly after trading for Alex.  Randy Mueller (former NFL GM) was on twitter and said why are the Colts continuing to badmouth Wentz?  He was like just move on.  It seems pretty classless.  Just say something to the effect of it didn't work out and we wish him the best.

 

Bruce wasn't as bad with Kirk I agree but he's the closest to the Colts on this front.  With the weird press release.  And he and Dan like to do their hits with leaks and did so to Kirk among others they kicked out the door.  But yeah outside of the press release they didn't do their thing publicly. 

 

But the lack of class I'd expect from Bruce and Dan.  And also I can't recall them crapping on a team they made a trade with.  That's IMO out of bounds.  I am surprised Ballard who is considered as being a super nice guy and classy typically is constantly going into the gutter with Wentz.

 

And yeah I'd hesitate to make a deal with Ballard again.   This team is practically a league punchline (unjustifably IMO) for making the trade with the Colts and that Ballard played this FO like a fiddle.  And Ballard instead of propping this team up for the deal which is typical protocl -- instead he is basically screaming to the league darn right i played the Commanders like a fiddle.  We got a bounty for our trash.    To me its really ugly stuff both from the perspective of them piling on Wentz and also basically ridiculing their trade partners in the process.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Bruce wasn't as bad with Kirk I agree but he's the closest to the Colts on this front.  With the weird press release.  And he and Dan like to do their hits with leaks and did so to Kirk among others they kicked out the door.  But yeah outside of the press release they didn't do their thing publicly. 

 

But the lack of class I'd expect from Bruce and Dan.  And also I can't recall them crapping on a team they made a trade with.  That's IMO out of bounds.  I am surprised Ballard who is considered as being a super nice guy and classy typically is constantly going into the gutter with Wentz.

 

And yeah I'd hesitate to make a deal with Ballard again.   This team is practically a league punchline (unjustifably IMO) for making the trade with the Colts and that Ballard played this FO like a fiddle.  And Ballard instead of propping this team up for the deal which is typical protocl -- instead he is basically screaming to the league darn right i played the Commanders like a fiddle.  We got a bounty for our trash.    To me its really ugly stuff both from the perspective of them piling on Wentz and also basically ridiculing their trade partners in the process.

Hoping the Titans still win that division.  It would be sweet if the Colts miss the playoffs.  Figure that the three wild-cards come from the west and north in the AFC.  

 

 

[Simmsy]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:58 AM, KDawg said:

McAfee eggs on his guests.

 

Also I don't know why we, as Commander fans, get so easily rattled by negative opinions. We should be used to it by now

 

Its not about being rattled, the Colts are the ones who won't let this go.

[Burgold]

50 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Heck, Bruce (for all of his faults) moved on quickly from Kirk and never said anything bad about him publicly after trading for Alex.  Randy Mueller (former NFL GM) was on twitter and said why are the Colts continuing to badmouth Wentz?  He was like just move on.  It seems pretty classless.  Just say something to the effect of it didn't work out and we wish him the best.

I can’t give Bruce credit for this. He may not have been publicly sniping himself, but through intermediaries he always tried to wreck the reputation of players or anyone who left. Think of the conveniently timed pics of Gruden drunk and cheating on his wife that got leaked. 

[Warhead36]

45 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Hoping the Titans still win that division.  It would be sweet if the Colts miss the playoffs.  Figure that the three wild-cards come from the west and north in the AFC.  

 

 

Dont sleep on the Jags. They got a LOT better this offseason and there is a worst to first every year in the NFL.