The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

According to Keim its squarely about Carr.  According to what Keim heard, Davis isn't a big fan of Carr but has kept on that ride because his coaches have been big fans of him. 

 

Can anyone blame Davis?  2 playoff cameos in 8 seasons.  At some point you have to move on.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The AFC is loaded and if I'm Rodgers - I want to stay in the NFC, with an easier road to the Super Bowl.  Will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

If Russini is right, GB is putting out full court press for Rodgers to stay and they likely succeed.  But supposedly the deal with Rodgers is if he insists on a trade it would be to the AFC.

[Koolblue13]

Looks like it's a one year prove it type deal for one of the dreggs on the trash heap. Seems we are forced to punt again this year and hope for the best. I don't think I'd even force a trade for a QB this year.

[mhd24]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Russini is right, GB is putting out full court press for Rodgers to stay and they likely succeed.  But supposedly the deal with Rodgers is if he insists on a trade it would be to the AFC.

 

It makes total sense.  Why trade a franchise QB in conference?  I figure Seattle (if they trade Wilson) will do the same thing.  Conversely, Houston probably trades Watson to the NFC.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

Can anyone blame Davis?  2 playoff cameos in 8 seasons.  At some point you have to move on.

 

I hope Davis tells Carr to take a hike and trades him. 

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

It makes total sense.  Why trade a franchise QB in conference?  I figure Seattle (if they trade Wilson) will do the same thing.  Conversely, Houston probably trades Watson to the NFC.

 

Rumors are yep that these teams would prefer to trade them out of conference. 

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Russini is right, GB is putting out full court press for Rodgers to stay and they likely succeed.  But supposedly the deal with Rodgers is if he insists on a trade it would be to the AFC.

I keen changing my opinion on this, but having just looked again GB really do have a job on their hands to retain Rodgers and Adams whilst making them both the highest paid players at there respective positions / and not purging some part of their roster to make that space which is what Rodgers also appears to be set against. Will be very interesting so see how they manage that.

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, sebestian said:

 

Agreed.  Thinking back on it when Snyder first bought the team he spent money bring some big names, but they were finished as football players.  I would always trade my first for an established player.

 

Not really a realistic example, but in Fantasy we can trade or picks in a 4 player keeper league.  How I built my team,  Drafted Marvin Harrison.  Couldn't win in the first couple of years then I realized that I want Manning.  Trade for him.  2 Firsts, Trent Green (KC), Micheal Westbrook, coming off a great season and I got my guy.  Picked up Torry Holt for straight up.  Traded two firsts for Eddie George. Finally I traded Steve Young and a first for F. Taylor.  I won three years in a row.  Our league has changed now, at the time we were a TD only league. for players in their prime.  Ramsey is a stud.  Plain and simple.

 

In conclusion getting a star qb proven not a rookie, is the Lebron James effect.  Players will want to come to the team he plays on because they know they always have a chance.  Why did Beckham sign with the Rams?  Once you have a contender you become magnetic.  

 

What is the point of having cap space and draft capital every year, without any results,,,,,,winning.  

 

Les Snead figured that out, when young stars become available, you go after them.  Stafford was the final piece.  OBJ obviously helped.  They have a good coach, but he did not reinvent the wheel,  

 

I know their is a lot of other factors in real life, however the point I am trying to make is that the Rams traded their draft capital for guys that are established.  The draft is still important Donald/Kupp), however they knew that they could not when with Goff, so they made the trade to get the guy.  Not a rookie.  

 

Sorry for  the long winded post.  Also I am not a self promoter, simply using the best example I can think of related to the sport.  

I agree, once the Rams put themselves in contention they then had a chance to go "all in" by grabbing OBJ and Von Miller from Denver to team up with Donald. We don't ever go for guys like that because we're not that close to contending and these players wouldn't want to be in DC. If we did trade for Rodgers we could then attract guys like Godwin, Adams or others and the domino's start falling into place. 

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan picked Mariota-Willis.

 

For me, I would like Sheehan's combination.  Me too, SIP. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by RWJ

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

Watson cleared to play and free of legal troubles would be a franchise changer - as long as he changes his ways off the field. Now I'd say if he's smart, he'll have already done that, but if he was that smart, he wouldn't be in the situation he's in to begin with. OTOH if he somehow becomes available to play but continues to work his way through all the available masseurs in the phone book, then that's just trouble waiting to happen, especially with Snyder as the owner.

This is a strange situation even setting aside all the legal and ethical stuff—just as a man and leader—because this guy just existed as a ghostly shell of himself on the sidelines for an entire season. Turned invisible in the locker room bc everyone knew it was no longer his team: he was essentially on IR while healthy, or suspended without officially being suspended. Still on the team, still getting paid $20+M, but it was no longer HIS team. The whole roster had to essentially pretend he didn’t exist while he was right there to focus on the games. What does that do to a dude? Is he really gonna just swagger into a new locker room with all of his embarrassing business out in the open and take leadership and demand respect? 
 

Psychologically, this is kind of unprecedented. Maybe it doesn’t matter at all but this experience would break some people’s confidence and swagger forever. And I’m not meaning to paint him as a victim or martyr here—he fully did this to himself. It’s just a weird situation that any interested team would need to look at from every angle, even setting aside the legal issues, moral issues, potential NFL suspension, huge contract, draft assets traded to acquire him, civil settlement, and PR nightmare aspects. This is complex. Is he the same stud he was, mentally?

Edited February 25, 2022 by Conn

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

So the not giving up much is the interesting question.  If we guess this:

 

Jimmy G, $25.5 million for 2022 + a 4th rounder

or

Mitch T, $6 million for 2022?

I think it's going to take more than than.  At least a 3rd and probably a second.  

 

11 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Jimmy G Contract issue

At what point can Jimmy G demand a contract extension?  If we trade a 3rd rounder does he have enough clout to do that?  2nd rounder?  For sure a 1st rounder but that's way too rich.

I think you have to to extend him for 2 years if you trade for him, or else you're giving up an asset for 1 year, and that's not a great return on investment.  Probably similar-ish money for the next 2 seasons with the first 2 seasons fully guaranteed.  

 

11 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Mitch & lack of decent QB options league wide

Mitch probably winds up in a mini-bidding war from QB desperate teams.  Andy Dalton got $10 million last season (and they also traded up for a QB in the 1st round).  Fitzpatrick got $10 million as well, and we weren't the only team bidding on Fitzpatrick.  Does Mitch also go for $10 million?  What about $15?  At what point is it too much for a reclamation project off of good feelings as a backup, when he didn't really show improvement on his rookie contract?

 

I think Mitch looks like the more tempting option at say 6 million.  But if Jimmy can be had for a Day 3 pick, and we don't need to extend him, or there's a sizeable bidding war for Mitch then Jimmy looks more tempting.

I think Mitch is going to want a one year contract in a place where he has an option to play.  i think that's probably more important to him than the total dollar amount of the deal.  The best path for him to get big money is to go somewhere and play well, and then get a multi-year, mid-tier starting QB offer in 2023.

 

But he also has to know that no team is going to sign him and just turn over the reins to him without drafting his replacement.  Hopefully he is that self-aware.

 

So the question then becomes, where does he think he can have the most success?  Let's assume Rodgers/Wilson/Watson/Carr all stay put.  Commanders, Denver, Carolina, New Orleans, Pittsburgh and Tampa are the teams I think are looking for immediate starters.  (PS: This is why I think all of the QBs in the draft are going to be over-drafted.  Because of the sheer number of teams who need QBs, teams are going to move up to get them in the daft.  But I digress.)

 

So I absolutely COULD see a bit of a bidding war for Mitch.  But I also think it doesn't matter.  He isn't going to get $20m/year.  He'll probably end up commanding around $8-12, and if that's the amount you have for your starting QB and you draft a guy, you can work with that.  

 

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

When was their last 1st round pick? 

2016, Jared Goff as the overall #1. 

 

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

As I said, Aaron Donald was their last 1st round pick in 2016 and they don't have one until 2024....that's 8 years in a row that they haven't or won't have a 1st round pick. You must not have understood my post. 

Aaron Donald was drafted in 2014.

 

Your point still holds, but you got the players and years wrong, I think.  

 

8 hours ago, Conn said:

No idea, but I’m one. Have never been superstitious. I’d think that any fan of this team who was at one time superstitious would have had that beaten out of them by the absolute misery of the last 20+ years. Like, at some point don’t people realize that not shaving, wearing the lucky Art Monk jersey, and eating the same meal they ate all season in 1991 just…never worked in the modern era of this sport? 

I think you are completely crazy.  Last year, when I wore my Black WFT polo, they won every game.  When I didn't, they lost.  Therefore, it's all my fault they only won 7 games. I know I should have done laundry sooner than the bye week.  

 

During the Nats World Series run, in one of the games (I think game 7 of the WS, but it's getting fuzzy now), a poster thought they were going to lose, so he went "upstairs" (his phrasing) with his wife.  When he came downstairs, the Nats had scored and were in the lead.  We told him to get his ass back "upstairs" with his wife and keep doing whatever he was doing until the game was over.  His wife, he and all of us would appreciate it.  THAT is why the Nats won the WS.  No other reason.  Because our friendly poster was boffing his wife.  

 

 

8 hours ago, Conn said:

And that’s not even getting into the rubes  who believe in curses. I don’t have it in me to type the number of paragraphs those people deserve.

Curses and prophesies are real.  Haven't you read Harry Potter?

 

2 hours ago, sebestian said:

All this talking, thinking and posting and this is always an issue............

 

Well, it’s still Washington — and Dan Snyder is still the owner.

This is true.  Will Blackman was on the Al Galdi podcast, and Galdi asked about Dan, and Will cut him off and said, to paraphrase, "players don't care about the owner.  We never see them.  I never saw Dan.  You don't go to a team to play for the owner."  (Somewhat unsaid, you go for the money, the coaches and other players.)

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan asked him about Aaron Rodgers and Standig said he doesn't think he's leaving.

I think that's maybe an educated guess.  It's my guess also.  And I think it's everybody's guess.  But I don't think anybody but Aaron knows for sure what the hell he's going to do.

 

 

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Only a couple of posters can argue against Jimmy G>TH 

@kingdaddy would go to war with TH any day.  He would fight very bravely, and die very quickly.  

 

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I really would take a chance on Wentz over Jimmy G. Rivera should be able to straighten his perceived character issues out. Surely the incentive of being back in the division would be motivation enough. 
 

Get Wentz, still have our premier draft picks. I’ll go with that over many other alternatives.

I think if Frank Reich can't straighten out Wentz, nobody can.  Also, I think Wentz's season last year was somewhat derailed by COVID, and his unwillingness to take the shot, and I think, given his druthers, Ron would like to stay away from that discussion if at all possible.  

 

If he was Aaron Rodgers good, then you just put up with it.  If you're Wentz going onto team 3 in 3 years, you don't really have to.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

C.  She does believe teams are willing to trade for Watson before the legal issues are resolved.  Personnel sources she knows tell her he's a franchise changer.  Apparently not just a big time player but big time leader in the locker room.  She doesn't know if Watson would be willing to come here.

 

To add something to the Watson stuff.  Finlay said yesterday in his podcast that he knows this team has some interest in Watson.  Also I saw in a story not long ago that last year Watson wasn't willing to waive his no trade clause to go to Carolina.  I don't know if that's because he was determined to go to Miami then? 

I think there are teams who would be willing to take a chance on Watson if the civil stuff is unresolved.  I can't think of any team that would be willing to give up significant assets before we know if the grand jury is going to indict him on criminal charges.  IF he's indicted on criminal charges, he CAN'T play in the NFL until that case is resolved.  Period. So the NFL would put him on some list, and he'd be ineligible until the criminal case worked it's way through the courts.    And that's going to take a while.  And then there would be a real possibility he would go to jail.  So I think until the Criminal side of this is done, nobody is going anything.

 

Which puts the Texans in a bit of a quandary.  Because Watson's 2022 Cap Number is $40m.  And that goes into effect on March 16th.  Ideally for the Texans, they could trade him by then, and then that makes life better for them.  BUT, who's going to take on that salary when the guy could go to jail and never play again?

 

It's a mess.  They could release him by March 16th, and they would take a hit, but not quite as big a hit.  I don't think they're going to do that.  

 

I do wonder if a team (maybe us, maybe Denver) who has a ton of cap room, would be willing to trade future assets contingent on playing time to Houston now before the criminal investigation is over.  So, Houston gets nothing in 2022,, but would get 1st round picks in 2023 and 2024 IF Watson is cleared to pay for some percentage of games over the 3 year period. This would have to be at a discounted asking price, because the team would be doing Houston a favor by getting Watson off their cap.  

 

The receiving team would take the risk that they would blow up their cap for 2022, and he would never play again.  But, if that happened, you wouldn't actually owe any draft picks. And the cap hit is gone in 2023, because the receiving team would not be responsible for any of the pro-rated guarantee.  So you could cut him anytime, I think, and not have a huge salary cap issue.    I'm sure there would be some dead cap, but not a lot.  And that MIGHT be worth the upside in the event he's allowed to play again.  

 

That's still too risky for me, I think.  But if you wanted to be super bold, that MIGHT be a way to do a deal before March 16th.  

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am bringing this up because I know from an interview from a Texans reporter that the Eagles were in on chasing Watson last year.  I am gathering some here will say they'd love to see Watson in Eagles green  to each their own but that to me would be another disaster scenario.

I think the ideal scenario is the Giants get Wilson so Ciara can live in NYC, and the Eagles get Watson, Dallas still has Dak, but we would have the absolutely best situation because we're going to war with Taylor Heinecke, who has beat Wilson and Brady, and therefore is on a trajectory to the HOF.  We would show everybody, and when the other teams are crippled because they lost all of their draft picks, we would be the shining star, riding Taylor's water-pistol arm to division, championship and SB titles for the next 27 years.  Because also, he doesn't age.  

[Skinsinparadise]

As for why Mariota over Trubisky for me and its not that close. The best way for me to explain it from my point of view:

 

IMO

A.  Mariota is acutally fairly accurate not killer good but good enough.  Trubisky is not. PFF puts Trubisky as Darnold's twin as far as accuracy's numbers (meaning their adjusted completion percentages are beyond bad, they are atrocious on that front) -- they have basically identical scores.  

 

B. I don't know about Mariota's ability to read defenses but I know from Trubisky's own admission he's (Trubisky) struggled with it.  And Allen Robinson referenced Trubisky's struggles to readjust the offense on the line of scrimmage when comparing Foles and Trubisky. 

 

C.  I know this part sounds a bit harsh and I could be wrong but Trubisky doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed.  His Wonderlic score "meh".  He sounds like a jock versus the typical more erudite QB in his interviews.  The way he plays IMO doesn't hit me that smart whether its struggiling to read a defense by his own admission, to doing a poor job selling his plays (misdirecting defenses) to defenders among other things. 

 

With all of that why am I not opposed to Trubisky?  It's because I think he's likely better than Heinicke.  I get Jay Guden's point that Heinicke might beat Trubisky in camp -- Jay's not a fan of Trubisky.  Neither is Mike Shanahan when Sheehan asked about Trubisky.   I think Trubisky can run Turner's offense well which often demands that the Qb roll in the pocket and ahtleticism is a major bonus.  I think Trubisky is a better athlete than Heinicke.  Mariota is even a better runner than Trubisky but they are both really good on that front. 

 

Here's Bullock who knows this offense well and does good work IMO talk about Mariota.  It should be interesting to see his rap on Trubisky.  I don't hate Trubisky but I think Mariota is a clear peg better.  And yeah Mariota is far from ideal.  He gets banged up. He missed 5 games combined in the last 3 years he started, which while isn't awful, isn't great.  He's certainly more durable than Jimmy G though.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

48 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Looks like it's a one year prove it type deal for one of the dreggs on the trash heap. Seems we are forced to punt again this year and hope for the best. I don't think I'd even force a trade for a QB this year.

Yeah, I’m with you on this.  Frankly, beyond landing one of the top vets, I’d much rather the team take a longer view and try to find a guy next year (including trading for 2023 picks).  Seems like the team though would take a hit perception-wise since they’ve aired their desperation so loudly.  I don’t see not landing Stafford as a failure (it was unfortunate, would love to have him), but not everyone sees it that way.  Failing to land a good qb this year though might draw a lot more ire/criticism.  And, not to derail things, if rebranding is part of the decision-making process (the short term view), maybe they should have put it off to see if we got a qb this year (either roll it out in the spring, or put it off one more year… maybe with a mascot in place?  Lol).

 

I know there’s concern over being able to draw FAs without a good qb, but even if we wound up with Wentz/Garappolo, the team isn’t winning a Super Bowl - those guys are still just placeholders.  So any FA you bring in will probably be at, or nearing the end of their contract by the time we get a talented rookie qb up to speed (if we’re even able to find one).

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I think the ideal scenario is the Giants get Wilson so Ciara can live in NYC, and the Eagles get Watson, Dallas still has Dak, but we would have the absolutely best situation because we're going to war with Taylor Heinecke, who has beat Wilson and Brady, and therefore is on a trajectory to the HOF.  We would show everybody, and when the other teams are crippled because they lost all of their draft picks, we would be the shining star, riding Taylor's water-pistol arm to division, championship and SB titles for the next 27 years.  Because also, he doesn't age.  

 

lol, you buried the lead with leaving this at the bottom of your longish post.

 

Yep if Heinicke is the dude.  Bring it on.  Have Watson lead the Eagles.  Wilson the Giants.

 

At least our rivals have cap issues and we can load Heinicke or name that bridge Qb with weapons -- I am sure it will end well.  

 

Yeah Dallas has Dak.  But will they now be able to extend BOTH Cooper and C. Lamb?  Apparently not.     We might be able to keep both Payne and Allen -- so heck that of course equals:  championships.  😀

Edited February 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for why Mariota over Trubisky for me and its not that close. The best way for me to explain it from my point of view:

 

 

I would add Winston to the list of FA QBs if we can sign him.  He seems to really come on last year before his injury and seemed like he gets it now.  Trubisky is still on the list because RR tried trading for him so there is still interest in him and maybe Daball was able to teach him some things with him and him being benched and sitting and learning.  Being optimistic.    

[Est.1974]

29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

if Frank Reich can't straighten out Wentz, nobody can.  Also, I think Wentz's season last year was somewhat derailed by COVID, and his unwillingness to take the shot, and I think, given his druthers, Ron would like to stay away from that discussion if at all possible.  

 

If he was Aaron Rodgers good, then you just put up with it.  If you're Wentz going onto team 3 in 3 years, you don't really have to.  

I dare say you are right on Wentz. He’s not top of my list by any means.
 

However as time passes, our realistic options seen to be diminishing. I think I’m at the stage where someone like Wentz becomes a risk/reward/cost type decision where on balance I may be prepared to take a risk with him if I still had my first 3 draft picks this year and I had bagged the top FS in free agency for example.

 

But yeah, it’s clear they guy has been seriously high maintenance over recent seasons.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I would add Winston to the list of FA QBs if we can sign him.  He seems to really come on last year before his injury and seemed like he gets it now.  Trubisky is still on the list because RR tried trading for him so there is still interest in him and maybe Daball was able to teach him some things with him and him being benched and sitting and learning.  Being optimistic.    

 

I don't think you can teach intelligence or accuracy judging by Arian's book about QBs.  But I do love Trubisky's athleticism.

 

As for Winston, don't love him, don't hate him.    I didn't love how he came off on Hard Knocks.  Also, I didn't love hearing from two different Saints reporters saying in season, they heard from their sources with the team that Payton has seen enough from Winston and doesn't expect to ask him back next season. 

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think you can teach intelligence or accuracy judging by Arian's book about QBs.  But I do love Trubisky's athleticism.

 

As for Winston, don't love him, don't hate him.    I didn't love how he came off on Hard Knocks.  Also, I didn't love hearing from two different Saints reporters saying in season, they heard from their sources with the team that Payton has seen enough from Winston and doesn't expect to ask him back next season. 

Any idea if Payton felt similar regarding Bridgewater and letting him go?

[max21]

Rodgers doesn’t want to play for the Washington Commanders? wow I am shocked 

[DJHJR86]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

However as time passes, our realistic options seen to be diminishing. I think I’m at the stage where someone like Wentz becomes a risk/reward/cost type decision where on balance I may be prepared to take a risk with him if I still had my first 3 draft picks this year and I had bagged the top FS in free agency for example.

 

This is where I am at.  If Indy essentially pays a team to take Wentz (like the Texans did with Osweiler), what is the harm?  I'd take him over Trubisky, Jimmy G, Winston, Mariota, Dalton, and Carr in a heartbeat.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think you can teach intelligence or accuracy judging by Arian's book about QBs.  But I do love Trubisky's athleticism.. 

The Bills and Josh Allen are the exception for not teaching accuracy. And I think that the Allen example is going to make a lot of people take risks and make mistakes. 
 

Regardless of how much anybody likes it, I think Deshaun Watson is our one realistic shot at a big upgrade this season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Any idea if Payton felt similar regarding Bridgewater and letting him go?

 

Don't know.  The only reason why I know about Winston was I was listening to NO beat guys on DC radio before our matchup.

 

Both guys heard that S. Payton is out on Winston for next season and the reason why Winston didn't throw the ball much was because he didn't trust him to do so. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

There's nothing more on brand for this franchise than to give up a bunch of assets for a guy like Watson, only for him to not be able to play, all the while they are tied up with congress over similar allegations to the ones the guy they just traded the farm for has.  Phew.

 

I realize that we're beyond starved at the QB position, that it can make folks talk themselves into anything - but I'm all out on acquiring Deshaun Watson.  

[HigSkin]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think you can teach intelligence or accuracy judging by Arian's book about QBs.  But I do love Trubisky's athleticism.

 

As for Winston, don't love him, don't hate him.    I didn't love how he came off on Hard Knocks.  Also, I didn't love hearing from two different Saints reporters saying in season, they heard from their sources with the team that Payton has seen enough from Winston and doesn't expect to ask him back next season. 

 

Keim just kind of reiterated the QB stuff you've already mentioned but he did say, "cause for pause" on JimmyG related to injury history/contract requirements and Washington hasn't shown much interest in Winston.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by HigSkin

[DWinzit]

So maybe we actually need a bridge QB like Trubisky to insure their investment - Watson clears charges and any NFL sanctions?