The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

I honestly believe that the best chance for us to get a guy was this previous offseason. 
 

I don’t think this offseason is going to be a great time to do it unless we get lucky and someone falls in our laps. 
 

I don’t want them to go get a guy just because. I want them to get a guy who makes this franchise better. If that isn’t there, upgrade the team elsewhere. 
 

I don’t believe in the philosophy to double down on a mistake by making snap and rash decisions, such as grabbing Strong in the first to be the QB and passing on many quality prospects to do so. 
 

It’s a significant mistake that can set the franchise back. We all want that franchise QB, and again I strongly believe we should have done it with Fields or Jones this season. We didn’t. 
 

If we’re in position for Howell/Corral/even Willis… fine. I don’t want to reach for Ridder or Strong. And I’m withholding judgement on Pickett until I see him throw the NFL ball.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

They are in the worst cap situation in the NFL.  They have to keep Jones simply because he's cheap on his rookie deal.  They might take a QB with new management coming in (no way Gettlemen survives this year).  I wonder if they fire Judge?

 

With two first rounders, might be two top 10 picks they'd be nuts to skip a QB in the draft.   My point isn't whether they keep Jones on the roster but whether they draft a QB in this draft.    He's 8 million on the cap next year, then he's a FA the following year or they pick up his option and pay him 20 million or so. 

[DWinzit]

Gettleman's arse is on the line. He must hit and hit big in FA and the draft. If they go QB, he must be capable of contributing early and often. I think they would need to go after Corral to full fill that meaning trading the house. I doubt they do it. I think they stick with Jones and draft a guy after the first round or bring in  good FA competition for Jones.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I honestly believe that the best chance for us to get a guy was this previous offseason. 

 

It looks like it was a squandered opportunity.  I thought so at the time.  But I also didn't kill them for it. Because I thought, OK, I keep hearing expect the aggressiveness this next off season.  I agree there are less prom dates to go to the prom with next off season versus the last one.  But IMO they created this pickle.  They need to navigate it now. 

 

Whether its talking Russell Wilson, as you mentioned, into coming here.  Or lets say they love three QBs in this draft, get one.  SF traded up for a guy.  The Bears traded up.   The Jets traded up ahead of NE and if they needed a QB they could have taken Jones.  Opportunities tend to happen. 

 

I agree with your premise of don't trade the store for a prospect you might like but not love.  But to that point, i don't think for example you will have to trade the store for someone like Howell.   The reputation of the player tends to factor in the mix.  A team traded up if i recall 8 spots with us in 2011 because they wanted Gabbert.    We got an extra 2nd rounder for it.  That's it.  The Jets didn't give up a ton to trade up to 14, etc.

 

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don’t want them to go get a guy just because. I want them to get a guy who makes this franchise better. If that isn’t there, upgrade the team elsewhere. 

 

I get this in theory but man Rivera better win in 2022 if he played out that card otherwise I doubt he could survive the politics of it.  Not swinging hard is the lead criticism of Rivera whether its from fans or the media.  If he doubles down on that.  Wow.  I don't think hey we swung and missed saves him. 

 

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don’t believe in the philosophy to double down on a mistake by making snap and rash decisions, such as grabbing Strong in the first to be the QB and passing on many quality prospects to do so. 

 

The X factor though is we don't know what they think about these guys.  The reason why i am a bit open on this point is to me eyes QBs 3-6 don't come off to me a mile apart.  I haven't quite figured out how to rank them yet but it strikes me really unusual that I can't.  Normally I can rank these guys.  Not saying my rankings always come out true but at least in my own mind I typically feel confident. 

 

Lets take Strong for example, my gut is pass on him.  But its not a hard pass.  Sometimes I am intrigued.   I could be talked into him especially if they find he has special intangibles.  There isn't a touted prospect in this mix where I am hardcore against them like I was with Trask.   

 

Making my point in a different way.  Lets say they like 4 guys.  If so the odds they can get one of them without giving up the store i think likely is in play.  Mac Jones fell in part because there seemed to be more uncertainty about him with some compared to the other touted prospects.  This draft IMO has a bunch of QBs that fit that profile of hey maybe yes, maybe no.  And those guys don't always go super high. 

14 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Gettleman's arse is on the line. He must hit and hit big in FA and the draft. If they go QB, he must be capable of contributing early and often. I think they would need to go after Corral to full fill that meaning trading the house. I doubt they do it. I think they stick with Jones and draft a guy after the first round or bring in  good FA competition for Jones.

 

If their season keeps going the way it has.  Listening to NY media types, there is a better chance that name that dude on this thread is running the NY draft than Gettleman.   I recall even before their season went off the rails in the game they played us, one of our local reporters asked a NY Giant beat guy if Gettleman's seat is hot.  He joked "hot"?  It's absolutely scortching. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Keim’s last podcast. He said he knows they are looking hard at QBs in this draft and he knows that it’s a priority for them and they don’t see Taylor as the long term answer.
 

Personally that makes sense to me right now too but as Keim himself likes to say every now and then things can change.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Keim’s last podcast. He said he knows they are looking hard at QBs in this draft and he knows that it’s a priority for them and they don’t see Taylor as the long term answer.
 

Personally that makes sense to me right now too but as Keim himself likes to say every now and then things can change.

 

On The Junkies interview with RR this morning they were pressing him hard to say whether the teams QB was on the roster and he would not commit.  He said they are looking for their franchise QB whether that be on the roster, in the draft or FA.  The other thing he said about what his day was like, was meeting with coaches and making suggestions for players and upcoming game plans.  He seems to trust and empower his coaches probably more than some other teams.  IMO, this kind of lines up with what we've heard about his coaches making player decisions and if TH isn't "the" guy it's because Scott Turner doesn't believe that either or at least right now.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by HigSkin

[NickyJ]

I don't think Rivera's refusal to publicly commit to getting a new QB is surprising or particularly insightful. We just knocked off the reigning Super Bowl Champions and won 2 in a row. There's no particular advantage to publicly driving a dump truck over Heinicke's ego when they're suddenly hoping for a playoff run.

[HigSkin]

32 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I don't think Rivera's refusal to publicly commit to getting a new QB is surprising or particularly insightful. We just knocked off the reigning Super Bowl Champions and won 2 in a row. There's no particular advantage to publicly driving a dump truck over Heinicke's ego when they're suddenly hoping for a playoff run.

 

The converse to that would be for RR to say "we feel good about the production we're getting there right now" and "we'll see where we are at the end of the year" or something like that.  These guys do that coach speak stuff all the time - LOL.  We'll see what happens.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Yeah we’re quickly taking ourselves out of the QB sweepstakes, too. Howell may not come out. If he does we may still be too low in the draft order. Corral likely goes 1 to Detroit. Willis will go high despite any shortcomings because of the potential. Pickett is still a wild card until we see him throw with the larger NFL ball. Ridder MAY be available and while I don’t love him he may be our best draft option if we win a game or two more. 
 

Right now I’d say Detroit takes Corral, Houston takes Willis. Giants go Pickett/Howell. 

 

I have this feeling we’re going to strike out in the QB sweepstakes again and Heinicke is going to be the guy for us unless Russell Wilson decides he wants to live in the DMV and we give up a lot to get him. Don’t see Rodgers coming here (if he goes anywhere I could see a New Orleans, Denver or Pittsburgh stop). 
 

Mayfield will get re-signed and he’s not great anyways.

 

Watson will wind up in Miami if he gets cleared (and this case could go on for awhile).

 

Don’t get too attached to the idea of a shiny new QB, folks. Heinicke may be the guy. Whether we love it or not.

If Heinicke was just 5-10 percent better he would be good enough.
 

He has “It” but doesn’t have it… 

Edited November 23, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[wit33]

Was hoping Daniel Jones would be just good enough to secure 10% of the Giants cal for next 3 seasons, doesn’t appear likely. Count me as one who feels Haskins is a better bust than Jones. Wheew… great example of mediocrity being worse than bad. 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, while I love listening to Kevin Sheehan, he's my fav radio host -- boy is he having a rough season as for his predictions for how things would unfold.

 

I am listening to him now talk down Daniel Jones a little and say the NY Giants are the worst team in the division.  Well, in the off season, he was so up the Giants butt you'd think he was a fan of their team.  The Giants this and the Giants that.  Not just he was infatuated with the Giants but a lot of the local media.

 

I recall him saying he was a believer in Daniel Jones.  I recall he wasn't much of a Mac Jones guy and said Trask >>> Jones.  He was practically screaming for Sam Darnold as being a good get on the market and how much he believes in him. 

 

The one thing he was right about which I recall and I agreed with him was Stafford would be a good get.   He also so far as been right about the defense being overrated coming into the season.  But as for QBs and the Giants, he has had it rough.      And again I can't just put it on him the love fest with the local media for the Giants was wild. 

Pat on the back for your willingness to take an extreme negative position on Darnold, he’s been atrocious. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's possible.  But usually you have a shot.  So I disagree with your guess.  But granted we are both guessing.

 

 

Corral has been my guy from week 1 of the season, I liked him a little last year too so yeah he's the guy I want.  I like Howell, too.   But for me still its not just those guys or bust.  But I get where you are coming from.  Corral and Howell and the style of how they play are up my alley. 

 

 

I am still digesting.  As for Armstrong, I noticed he has some traction on the draft thread but not the same love elsewhere for the most part with some exceptions.  I just watched one of his games.  I wasn't blown away but I'll watch more.  Of the mid round guys thus far I think my guy is Haener.

 

 

As we know the draft is a bit of a crap shoot so true upgrade is almost always in doubt.  But I think almost no doubt they will have a shot to draft or trade up for one of the touted prospects whether its the one we liked, you got me.  But I'll trust the process.  According to Keim, Hurney was a big Herbert guy.  If so, maybe he has a good eye for it.

 

Beyond those 2 QBs, Pickett, Willis, Ridder and even Strong intrigue me on some level.  I can get confident when I don't like a QB as to why I don't think they have it.  I am not sold yet on those 4 QBs I mentioned but i am also not out on them either.  I was out on some QBs in the last draft.  Those 4 I am not completely sold on by a long shot but not unsold either.    Plenty for example think Pickett > Howell.  While that isn't my initial impression just yet, it also doesn't feel wild to me.  Ditto the draft geeks who have Willis as the top QB on the board.  I get why some like Ridder even though I got some questions about him.  Ditto Strong.

 

I've been in the tank for Rivera and defended him a ton.  I liked Mac Jones and Fields, he skipped trading up for both.  And I defended him for it in part because people (including Keim) said from what they've heard Rivera's intention was to go town for the QB next year not this year.  This year he didn't think the team was ready to lose draft capital in a trade up.

 

If he skips QB next year too after all this and makes his move at QB in season 4, then count me among the people who will rip him.   And I will rip him hard.  This is a QB league.  This team is arguably the joke of the NFL as for how they've struggled to find that guy and try to win without him.  I've defended him passing on it this off season.  There is some logic to it even though i disagreed.   But if he takes a pass again.  Wow.  The criticism will be deafening and count me in that group.  Lol, I feel angry even typing about it now. 

 

Only way I'd defend him is if one of two things happened:  Heinicke becomes a franchise QB or they really swing hard and miss and miss and miss.  I know you think the later likely happens.  Personally, i don't think they will miss all their targets.  I'd be surprised if they aren't intrigued by more QBs than just Corral and Howell.  I know I am intrigued by more than just those 2. 

 

Hope the FO has a guy they love, zero interest in getting guy just because you feel like you should. If they like versus love a guy, I hope it’s in the 3rd or 4th round. The guy will have to be pretty legit to wrestle the job away from Heineke next season. 

[lavar1156]

I think we have to identify a QB in the draft that we have a realistic shot at getting and go after him. I'm not crazy about this potential free agents or trade possibilities. If all else fails we have a solid option in TH for another year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Washington will look for another quarterback this offseason, hoping to find the franchise passer and end a decades-long quest. Heinicke is not viewed in that manner. But, as an underdog quarterback his entire playing career, he isn't focused on the future.

It's about the present. And the present -- the past two weeks in particular -- have been stellar.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/42079/washingtons-turnaround-fueled-by-taylor-heinickes-resurgence

 

Keim

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

If Ron goes into 22 without us having a franchise QB, he better have a winning season at minimum. If he doesn't,  he won't be the coach in 23 and someone else will be acquiring that QB.

 

If he starts out badly, like he did this year; Dan will fire him in season.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Rdskns2000

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I honestly believe that the best chance for us to get a guy was this previous offseason. 

I think Taylor's playoff performance was very intriguing for RR and he needed to find out what he has in him. Bringing in Fitz was an OK move that bombed cause he's just not mobile enough anymore. When Cam got cut I thought we'd pounce on him but RR must've wanted to give TH or Kyle a legit shot without muddying the waters with Cam and his ego. 

As far as missing out over the past offseason who is it that you regret not getting that would be doing better than TH is right now? Stafford or Mac Jones makes sense but who else? We took a run at Stafford and whiffed and passed on Mac Jones so maybe management is more into TH than any of us realize? 

Lets see what this offseason brings because there could be 3 huge names available in Watson, Rodgers and Russ Wilson....but I'm hoping TH quiets all that noise over the coming weeks. 

It was great hearing Louis Riddick rip Daniel Jones for not throwing the ball where and when it needs to be thrown. I also enjoy watching Peyton and Eli analyze the game...gonna be interesting to hear their thoughts on our boy Heinicke. I would encourage all of you to tune it to the two of them at some point next Monday night.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If Ron goes into 22 without us having a franchise QB, he better have a winning season at minimum. If he doesn't,  he won'tbe the coach in 23 and someone else will be acquiring that QB.

 

If he starts out badly, like he did this year; Dan will fire him in season.

 

That's how I think it goes down.   Arguably there is one main thing that Rivera gets excoriated for whether its the national media, the local media, or the fans.  That is, teams in the midst of a rebuild typically shoot for franchise QB early.   Rivera talks about the Bills being his model but even they got theirs in season 2 and yeah had to trade up to do it. 

 

I like Rivera more than most and defended him a lot.  I had to hold my nose a little and defend him punting on the QB until season 3.  Waiting that long is unusual but OK I'll ride with it.  But if doubles down on it for season 4, and they don't win, he deserves to be fired.  And this coming from one of his most ardent supporters here. 

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 

It was great hearing Louis Riddick rip Daniel Jones for not throwing the ball where and when it needs to be thrown. I also enjoy watching Peyton and Eli analyze the game...gonna be interesting to hear their thoughts on our boy Heinicke. I would encourage all of you to tune it to the two of them at some point next Monday night.

 

You won't hear it.  They aren't doing it next week. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I think Taylor's playoff performance was very intriguing for RR and he needed to find out what he has in him. Bringing in Fitz was an OK move that bombed cause he's just not mobile enough anymore. When Cam got cut I thought we'd pounce on him but RR must've wanted to give TH or Kyle a legit shot without muddying the waters with Cam and his ego. 

As far as missing out over the past offseason who is it that you regret not getting that would be doing better than TH is right now? Stafford or Mac Jones makes sense but who else? We took a run at Stafford and whiffed and passed on Mac Jones so maybe management is more into TH than any of us realize? 

Lets see what this offseason brings because there could be 3 huge names available in Watson, Rodgers and Russ Wilson....but I'm hoping TH quiets all that noise over the coming weeks. 

It was great hearing Louis Riddick rip Daniel Jones for not throwing the ball where and when it needs to be thrown. I also enjoy watching Peyton and Eli analyze the game...gonna be interesting to hear their thoughts on our boy Heinicke. I would encourage all of you to tune it to the two of them at some point next Monday night.

It’s not about right now.

 

I doubt we get any of the three or that they are available.

Edited November 23, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Was hoping Daniel Jones would be just good enough to secure 10% of the Giants cal for next 3 seasons, doesn’t appear likely. Count me as one who feels Haskins is a better bust than Jones. Wheew… great example of mediocrity being worse than bad. 

 

I've been right about some QBs and I've been wrong.  In the column of being right, I was not a fan of either Haskins or Daniel Jones before the draft.

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Pat on the back for your willingness to take an extreme negative position on Darnold, he’s been atrocious. 
 

 

Thanks.  Lol, the only reason why I was no negative is I spent a lot of time on him and man he got lucky IMO at USC as for not having a ton of picks -- he came off to me as such a bad decision maker that i didn't think he'd easily be fixed especially with that same drawback following him to the NFL.  I felt the exact same way about Josh Rosen when he was on the trading block.

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Hope the FO has a guy they love, zero interest in getting guy just because you feel like you should. 

 

I get the point of not forcing a pick but I just don't see it as a viable discussion point as if there are people on both sides of the argument.  Or where I have to worry about Rivera going hey i don't like this dude but what the heck, lets take it for a ride because we didn't take a QB last year.

 

The bottom line is if they draft a QB I'll trust whatever they do.  It doesn't move me whether I or anyone here believes in certain QBs or not and whether that matches their actions.  So just as an example, if I don't love Carson Strong but they take him.  My thought isn't going to be that was a reach.   I am going to trust whatever they do and hope for the best. 

 

But yeah i don't see how Rivera can easily explain not taking a QB and going into season 4 aside from Heinicke somehow becoming a franchise QB which I don't expect to happen but I guess you never know.  Or they prove an exception and win in 2022 without that QB. 

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

I hope it’s in the 3rd or 4th round. The guy will have to be pretty legit to wrestle the job away from Heineke next season. 

 

I definitely hope its not the 3rd or 4th round.  I forgot the stats on this but if I recall the hit rate in those rounds is like 8%

Edited November 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Daniel Jones is a prime example of why you don't get a QB just because. You gotta get the RIGHT guy. I want a QB as much as the next person but this upcoming class doesn't seem very promising and even then we'll probably play our way out of a top 10 pick to get one anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Daniel Jones is a prime example of why you don't get a QB just because. You gotta get the RIGHT guy. I want a QB as much as the next person but this upcoming class doesn't seem very promising and even then we'll probably play our way out of a top 10 pick to get one anyway.

 

Coming from the guy who was as negative on Daniel Jones on the draft thread at the time as I was on Darnold in the QB thread last year, yeah i am not a take a QB I hate just to take a QB kind of guy.  I hated it when they took Haskins.  I would have hated it if they took Daniel Jones.

 

I could up being dead wrong but right now there isn't a QB I hate among the top 5.   I got the impression from Rivera's interview with the Junkies weeks back that they like multiple QBs in this draft. 

 

I think we are setting up with good intentions a strawman debate.  The idea of them taking a QB just to take a QB doesn't seem to me to be a viable argument where somehow its a debate with opposing arguments as if likewise its an actual debate happening in the FO.  

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan4221977]

Has anyone forgotten how we won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks — none of whom are in the Hall of Fame? And how much does Taylor Heinicke have to accomplish before he is given a legitimate shot at being the so-called “future of the franchise?” Cohesiveness, compatibility, team effort and good coaching are what matters. We are winning games with a ton of injuries. We need to keep doing what we are doing. Period.

Edited November 23, 2021 by skinsfan4221977

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If their season keeps going the way it has.  Listening to NY media types, there is a better chance that name that dude on this thread is running the NY draft than Gettleman.   I recall even before their season went off the rails in the game they played us, one of our local reporters asked a NY Giant beat guy if Gettleman's seat is hot.  He joked "hot"?  It's absolutely scortching. 

Yup, funny how a couple hours after he discussed this Jason Garrett was canned. It's desperation time for Gettleman pulling all the stops.

Frankly, I still can't get over the signed him or kept him this year. I was as thrilled they brought Garrett back as I was every year Jerry Jones announced they were bringing him back as HC.

He is terrible and has proven a nail in Gettlemans coffin

 

The next OC will need to kick Jones in gear quick

Edited November 23, 2021 by DWinzit

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Rivera more than most and defended him a lot.  I had to hold my nose a little and defend him punting on the QB until season 3.  Waiting that long is unusual but OK I'll ride with it.  But if doubles down on it for season 4, and they don't win, he deserves to be fired.  And this coming from one of his most ardent supporters here. 

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

In year one he pretty much gave Haskins a chance and getting another guy never really came into play. Year 2 he took a shot at Stafford and got outbid. Year 3 remains to be seen but I still think Dan/Tanya have so much respect for him that they pretty much have to honor his full contract. Firing RR short of him just totally dropping the ball with the roster would be a potential disaster for this organization. Too much good is happening since he came here including winning the division last year. 

Plus his players love him.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinsfan4221977 said:

Has anyone forgotten how we won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks — none of whom are in the Hall of Fame? And how much does Taylor Heinicke have to accomplish before he is given a legitimate shot at being the so-called “future of the franchise?” Cohesiveness, compatibility, team effort and good coaching are what matters. We are winning games with a ton of injuries. We need to keep doing what we are doing. Period.

 

I'd agree if the NFL was still the same way it was in the 1980s-early 90s.  But because things have changed so dramatically -- its become a QB league in a much bigger way than it was during the glory years.  The rules have changed.  Salary Cap.   More open offenses.  Among other things.

 

I don't think anyone here is anti-Heinicke.  We like him.  But is he a top 10 franchise QB?  The type that makes you a consistent winner every year and a real legit SB threat? 

 

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yup, funny how a couple hours after he discussed this Jason Garrett was canned. It's desperation time for Gettleman pulling all the stops.

Frankly, I still can't get over the signed him or kept him this year. I was as thrilled they brought Garrett back as I was every year Jerry Jones announced they were bringing him back as HC.

He is terrible and has proven a nail in Gettlemans coffin

 

The next OC will need to kick Jones in gear quick

I wonder if they fire Judge too?  Presumably, Judge needs to win next year.  Otherwise, the new gm should get to pick his coach.

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Daniel Jones is a prime example of why you don't get a QB just because. You gotta get the RIGHT guy. I want a QB as much as the next person but this upcoming class doesn't seem very promising and even then we'll probably play our way out of a top 10 pick to get one anyway.

Thank YOU!!!!