The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ClaytoAli]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Well there’s lots of different ways to approach this.

 

I mean, give me Wentz and Amari Cooper and a our draft board still in order. Top LB #11 then move back up for a Dax Hill in the draft. Win for me.

 

Plenty of ways to go.
 

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Just as I was thinking @zCommander had taken the torch and ran with it as King Bee of the Heineke Hive, @kingdaddy comes buzzing in with this hot take.  Pheweeee.

It's not a plug to start Heinicke but a way to get Watson, hopefully on the cheap. We tell Houston we'll take Watson before the legal stuff shakes out but we won't pay as much now given the uncertainties. Offer Houston two 1sts, maybe a 3rd and a player and get it done. It's a HUGE gamble and possibly a big PR hit but it's a way to get him with TH as the security blanket based on his contract. One of you TH bashers put the odds at zero that TH starts again for the Commanders; I just gave you a situation where he does AND we get the potential franchise QB. Ideally, Watson comes here and avoids a suspension after things settle but if he has to serve one we are still in OK shape.

 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The way I see it, I've debated you enough about Willis on the draft thread.  On this thread, I am taking it easy and enjoying reading your debates with @wit33 on the topic.  

 

With him I've mostly debated the merits of running QBs in general. My post was more about what I've seen (and J.T. O'Sullivan brought up) when looking at his tape. Not so much about being a running QB, but about how he goes through reads and tends to peek down at the LOS and pass rushers, which is a bit worrying.

[Voice_of_Reason]

We have finally reached this level of lack of connection with reality for 2 of our posters. 

 

 

 

FWIW, I think Mitch and Marcus are better QBs right now than TH.  I also think if Scott Turner can scheme around Haskins not knowing the playbook, Alex Smith having one leg, and Taylor Heineke not being able to run 40% of the playbook, it would be a complete luxury for him to try and scheme around Mitch and Marcus' limitations.  

 

I think what Mitch Mariota brings you, more than anything else, is at least the possibility of running the full playbook.  Extending the field vertically and horizontally, and taking the pressure off of the running game because while he might not be super accurate, at least he CAN throw deep outs and deep ins, which TH just couldn't do.   

 

Sometimes even the threat of having routes available to them will open stuff up underneath.  Which would open things up for Gibson and the other RBs.

 

I think if Mitch or Marcus starts, they will be firmly average.  They will hit some things, and they will miss other things.   But I think average is a significant upgrade from TH's ceiling.  

 

Both Mitch and Marcus were taken with the #2 overall picks for reasons.  They have tremendous physical ability and upside. Both have failed so far in the NFL to varying degrees.  Mitch might have been in the worse situation, Marcus was really limited at times by injury.  If there is a chance either one of them can develop into a Tannehill type story, it's absolutely worth taking a shot at, assuming you don't have better options.  We know what TH is.  We don't need to see any more of it.  He can't play except in an emergency.  

 

There is at least a chance Mitch and Marcus can be good starters.  Personally, I would prefer Marcus to Mitch.  I believe @Skinsinparadise agrees.  But I prefer both of them to TH, and it's not even remotely close.  And that says a lot more about TH's ability than it does about either of the other two.

 

Btw, Jamis Winston isn't an option here, I don't think.  I like him more than either of the other two.  But coming off of a torn ACL and having to learn a new system, I think that would be too much, and he wouldn't be fully ready for the beginning of the season.  

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

It's not a plug to start Heinicke but a way to get Watson, hopefully on the cheap. We tell Houston we'll take Watson before the legal stuff shakes out but we won't pay as much now given the uncertainties. Offer Houston two 1sts, maybe a 3rd and a player and get it done. It's a HUGE gamble and possibly a big PR hit but it's a way to get him with TH as the security blanket based on his contract. One of you TH bashers put the odds at zero that TH starts again for the Commanders; I just gave you a situation where he does AND we get the potential franchise QB. Ideally, Watson comes here and avoids a suspension after things settle but if he has to serve one we are still in OK shape.

 

I think TH counts 1.5 against the cap this year.  

 

If you have to go that route, and you're cap strapped, you release TH and pay Mitch or Marcus $6M and call it a day.  

 

There is literally no way they would send TH out on opening day, even if Watson is on the team and suspended.  It's just not happening. Ever. 

 

They also aren't trading for Watson until the criminal stuff is handled, and my guess is they know what the suspension is.  And they will absolutely find somebody else to start in the case he's out for half a season.  

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

With him I've mostly debated the merits of running QBs in general. My post was more about what I've seen (and J.T. O'Sullivan brought up) when looking at his tape. Not so much about being a running QB, but about how he goes through reads and tends to peek down at the LOS and pass rushers, which is a bit worrying.

 

Cliff notes version of it for me to double down on what I've said about Willis.

 

If he didn't have flaws he'd be going super early.  His flaws are what put him in play.  We would not be taking him with the #2 pick in the draft for example.

 

Like my debate with @Koolblue13 about Ridder.  If for example Ridder ran a 4.38 (not that a 4.49 isn't impressive) and had a bazooka of an arm, I wouldn't be concerned on the same level about the player.  I can overlook some things if the player has freakish ability.

 

It's somewhat boring for me to debate Malik's flaws.  I've watched him plenty.  I can write a ton here about his issues.  But we are coming at this from a totally different premise so there isn't an easy way to find common ground.  For me I am ok with a boom-bust pick.   

 

To go boom-bust its not because I think the bust potential doesn't exist -- it indeed does exist.  But it serves me no purpose to debate the bust potential considering it doesn't bother me.  I understand the risks.  It's like buying a higher beta stock, its not like I don't understand the potential of high variance and why that stock can skyrocket or crash. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CobraCommander]

Someone photoshop my boy pointing to a Commanders jersey stat. I need it in my veins!

 

[Zim489]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

JLC is from Baltimore and does a radio show there.  the point of the article is Jackson has the Ravens by the balls and will milk it for all its worth.  Should be interesting...

 

 

 

I think hes going to turn into the premier "good player but costs way too much money" that keeps the ravens from being competitive. He's just not good enough throwing the ball. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Personally, I would prefer Marcus to Mitch.  I believe @Skinsinparadise agrees. 

 

Big time.  I've said so many times on this thread.   

 

I am teetering on the edge to actively rooting against Trubisky signing here the more I dive into him, I got to stop delving deeper into the Trubisky experience because its getting me down.  😢

 

Need to convert @Koolblue13 on this point.  Maybe the tweet below does the trick? 😀

 

 

 

[Zim489]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

they would send TH out on opening day

This would not be the message that the organization wants to send out. It screams "were not serious about doing anything here"

[rumplestilskin]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

You speak many truths here no doubt but I think where you went off the rails in your argument was when you said he was accused of forcing a woman to perform oral sex and that was the "closest" thing to rape that he's been accused of.

 

If you correct that I'll have much more sympathy for your argument. 

That was not my point and if it was misconstrued that way I could see some agst.  I was trying to convey that that instance would constitute felony charges being brought forward. I wasnt downplaying the action and its relevance to severity on the sexual assult scale. The dude is going to play football again and if its in Washington some folks around here are going to have some serious decisions to make if they have already convicted him before actual charges have even been made.

[SmallDaddy]

I can talk myself into any of the top QBs in the draft except the supposed "top QB on most boards" - Kenny P. My son went to Pitt so I have seen him play for a looong time (it seems like he was there for 10 years). He has always been meh until this past year when he lit it up. I have 3 main concerns. The first has been talked about to death (his tiny hands).  Some people dismiss it but his hand size is unprecedented. The bigger nfl ball could be a huge issue. He's never thrown an nfl ball for a full season. There was a really good article about 5 years ago that did a deep dive into how important hand size is to a QB. 

Second issues is his age. There was another good article a few years ago analyzing the pros and cons of drafting older and younger players. The concluison was always draft young. The older players don't typically work out. 

The third thing is similar to the second. Because he played so long in college he was essentially a man among boys. I would expect a grown man to dominate 18 and 19 year olds.  What happens when he is a man playing against other grown men?

 

I just don't see it working out for Mr. Pickett in the NFL as a franchise QB. 

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

Oh no! The internet moral police has me cornered. Obviously there is a myriad of scenarios that could have happened between rape conviction or the accusers false accusations. Unlike you, I dont have an opinion until the court system has finished. Your assuming I am defending Watsons behavior. Actually I am not. You can rest assured all these topics will be covered in court by professional lawyers unlike us. So I am sorry if I offended the fragility of your moral standards. I am well versed on how the world works and the true "ignorant" behaviour is believing that your opinions on a forum that are drenched in morality and nievity is the same as real world reality.  Dont put words on my mouth to push your agenda. Life doesnt have to be in extremes if opinions vary from yours. In the real world we lets the court process play out before condemning people. How about that? The truth is if Watson is not convicted of a felony I am OK with him playing for the Commanders. That is the process he must go through in our society. That doesnt for one second make me a rapist, creepy or out of touch with "rape culture". So kindly back off and stop filling in the blanks to make your self feel righteous.

 

TL;DR I am right, you are mean, I know all the things

[mistertim]

42 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think hes going to turn into the premier "good player but costs way too much money" that keeps the ravens from being competitive. He's just not good enough throwing the ball. 

 

Yeah I don't think the Ravens are in a very good spot. But at least they'll have this season so they can see whether Jackson bounces back after a relatively poor 2021. If he does and becomes dominant again, they'll probably give him an enormous payday. If he doesn't then they'll have to decide whether to franchise him or let him walk. If he doesn't bounce back they could give him the non-exclusive tag and then try to trade him.

 

Could definitely suck for them because then they'd have to start over again, and they basically completely retooled their entire offense to be around a running QB. To me that really highlights the issues with having a running QB who's not a great passer. A running QB is going to have a shorter shelf life than an elite passer. So you're going to have to start over sooner than if you have an elite passer who could be that way for 10-15 years.

[Zim489]

52 minutes ago, SmallDaddy said:

Because he played so long in college he was essentially a man among boys

This is my biggest concern. He did next to nothing for his first 3 years. Then blows up his RS senior year when the average college starter is young. Doesn’t help that he played in a historically bad division weak overall conference 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We have finally reached this level of lack of connection with reality for 2 of our posters. 

 

 

 

FWIW, I think Mitch and Marcus are better QBs right now than TH.  I also think if Scott Turner can scheme around Haskins not knowing the playbook, Alex Smith having one leg, and Taylor Heineke not being able to run 40% of the playbook, it would be a complete luxury for him to try and scheme around Mitch and Marcus' limitations.  

 

I think what Mitch Mariota brings you, more than anything else, is at least the possibility of running the full playbook.  Extending the field vertically and horizontally, and taking the pressure off of the running game because while he might not be super accurate, at least he CAN throw deep outs and deep ins, which TH just couldn't do.   

 

Sometimes even the threat of having routes available to them will open stuff up underneath.  Which would open things up for Gibson and the other RBs.

 

I think if Mitch or Marcus starts, they will be firmly average.  They will hit some things, and they will miss other things.   But I think average is a significant upgrade from TH's ceiling.  

 

Both Mitch and Marcus were taken with the #2 overall picks for reasons.  They have tremendous physical ability and upside. Both have failed so far in the NFL to varying degrees.  Mitch might have been in the worse situation, Marcus was really limited at times by injury.  If there is a chance either one of them can develop into a Tannehill type story, it's absolutely worth taking a shot at, assuming you don't have better options.  We know what TH is.  We don't need to see any more of it.  He can't play except in an emergency.  

 

There is at least a chance Mitch and Marcus can be good starters.  Personally, I would prefer Marcus to Mitch.  I believe @Skinsinparadise agrees.  But I prefer both of them to TH, and it's not even remotely close.  And that says a lot more about TH's ability than it does about either of the other two.

 

Btw, Jamis Winston isn't an option here, I don't think.  I like him more than either of the other two.  But coming off of a torn ACL and having to learn a new system, I think that would be too much, and he wouldn't be fully ready for the beginning of the season.  

I think TH counts 1.5 against the cap this year.  

 

If you have to go that route, and you're cap strapped, you release TH and pay Mitch or Marcus $6M and call it a day.  

 

There is literally no way they would send TH out on opening day, even if Watson is on the team and suspended.  It's just not happening. Ever. 

 

They also aren't trading for Watson until the criminal stuff is handled, and my guess is they know what the suspension is.  And they will absolutely find somebody else to start in the case he's out for half a season.  

You seem to be opposed to just about everything TH related...and the only thing absolute in your post is that you absolutely don't know what's going to happen just like the rest of us because you're not the GM or the head coach. You're good at mocking people that have opinions outside of yours though....that's an absolute fact.

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

You seem to be opposed to just about everything TH related...and the only thing absolute in your post is that you absolutely don't know what's going to happen just like the rest of us because you're not the GM or the head coach. You're good at mocking people that have opinions outside of yours though....that's an absolute fact.

The stanning of arguably the worst QB to play extend time last year is just weird. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with Keim's podcast from today.

 

A.  He said he knows the thinking is on the table of a veteran coupled with a 2nd/3rd round rookie, and if neither player shows the progress they like this season, then they try again in 2023

B.   Seems like he hinted that trading down on the table 

C.  He seemed to suggest he thought they might take Willis if available over perhaps Pickett if they signed a veteran first but Pickett over Willis if they don't sign a veteran -- couldn't tell if that was just Keim's thought or the team

D.  Listening to it I got the vibe its slam dunk they are drafting a QB.  Dan Graziano said on TV this week he hears this team has dived deep into the idea of taking one of these QBs in the draft

E.  Trubisky may get 10 million a year plus

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[VirginiaVibes]

For all the Ridder folks - inaccuracy on top of these stats don't concern you?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Logan Paulsen just now on 106.7 from the combine.

 

Said he started precombine with Pickett being his #1, Willis #2.  Saying he's changed on this with it now being Willis #1, Pickett #2 after seeing his freakish abiltites up close and hearing good things about his interviews

 

Howell not as impressive as some of the others as far as public interviews.  Questions how good he is at reading the field. 

 

Loves how Ridder comes off in interviews and his persona -- but his tape doesn't match what he likes about his personality.  Tough to get past his inconsistent accuracy so he's not really high on him

Edited March 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CRobi21]

 

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

 

 

A deal for a QB who is made expendable during the draft may be in the cards here.

[VirginiaVibes]

What rhymes with "lack of preparation"? Desperation 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

2) After quarterback-rich offseasons in 2020 and ’21, with high-end draft and veteran options available, it’s starting to feel like this one will be more of the norm—when quarterback demand far outweighs the supply. That should help the Texans get a big return for Deshaun Watson.

 

3) Those in the league continue to connect Watson to the Eagles and Broncos. Obviously, clarity with Watson’s legal situation would help (and further bolster the market for him), but the football people in those two places are positioned to strike if the right deal is there. Philly owner Jeffrey Lurie has consistently been willing to take players with baggage, and Denver doesn’t have an owner right now.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:27 PM, Andre The Giant said:

Banner is well connected. 
 

 

Kind of odd for someone to sort of pseudo humble brag about all the arrows of outrageous fortune they had to bat aside while making the remarkable take that no established QB's would move?!?!?! How many elite QB's have moved in the past 20 years? Brees and Brady? Anyone else? What a silly take, and there is always something a bit odd about suggesting that taking heat on twitter from .04% of the populace is borderline heroic.