The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Someone had asked for a breakdown of what Cooley said a few pages back, I had flipped over to the JJ bandwagon, but Cooley might’ve got me back on the Daniels bandwagon. I still worry though because of the Malik nabers every target video that I had posted had a few throws that I thought Daniels should’ve made. 
 

Im one of those guys that think if these guys are getting paid huge bucks to throw the ball, than 99 times out of a hundred if a guy is open you should at least give him a catchable ball. And I’m even worse with receivers, if they can get 2 hands on the ball and don’t come up with it, it infuriates me. These guys get to mess up just as much as a weather man and still keep their jobs.

Every single QB has throws they just biff.  The best ones limit them to 1 every couple of games.  But they all have throws they just totally gum up.

 

For college QBs if that number is 1-2 a game, that’s fine.  These guys aren’t close to finished products and you have to assume they will improve.

 

Take football out of it for a minute.  Literally ever graduating college student starts a new job knowing nothing and has to learn a whole bunch to just be good enough to be ok. 
 

21 year olds aren’t the best at anything yet.  
 

Now, if they’re spraying the ball all over the place with bad fundamentals it’s different.  
 

The throw a good QB just biffed for no reason which stands out to me was years ago by Rich Gannon in the Raiders SB year where he might have won MVP or came close to it.  
 

Late in the season he had a throw to clinch a game in a play they had run 1000 times. Just a simple little option route in the middle of the field. Complete the pass, win the game.  Maybe 10-15 yard throw.  And if I’m not mistaken Rice was the receiver.  And he just threw the thing in the dirt.  Rice might have actually caught it on the bounce.  It was awful.  Good QB having a great year and he just gummed up that throw. Didn’t matter.  They got to the SB.  He played well all year but had a few just bad throws.  It happens.  

[CapsSkins]

29 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Cooley did say he HAS to stop getting hit but doesn’t think it’s that hard. 
 

Another thing he said that I never considered is that basically every college game has playoff implications and that’s probably why he played like it was his last down every down. Cause they had to score 40 to win every game. 

 

My concern with Jayden's frame hasn't been about getting tackled when running - which I agree is fixable - but sacks in the pocket when lots of bodies come crashing. Shoulders, ribs, hip injuries on top of the usual ligament concerns.

 

I also have been very skeptical that a 24 year old at 200-210 lbs can simply bulk up to 225 over a couple years. But I am a total amateur. If Cooley thinks it's possible, while I wouldn't take it as gospel, I'd think he at least has some kind of educated intuition there.

 

Peters and Quinn's philosophy of building for the long-term (no shortcuts) made me think the pick would be Maye. But if they believe Jayden is flat-out the better prospect, I will trust them and root like hell for the young man to succeed. But the RG3 PTSD is strong lol.  

 

Edited April 14 by CapsSkins

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Every single QB has throws they just biff.  The best ones limit them to 1 every couple of games.  But they all have throws they just totally gum up.

 

For college QBs if that number is 1-2 a game, that’s fine.  These guys aren’t close to finished products and you have to assume they will improve.

 

Take football out of it for a minute.  Literally ever graduating college student starts a new job knowing nothing and has to learn a whole bunch to just be good enough to be ok. 
 

21 year olds aren’t the best at anything yet.  
 

Now, if they’re spraying the ball all over the place with bad fundamentals it’s different.  
 

The throw a good QB just biffed for no reason which stands out to me was years ago by Rich Gannon in the Raiders SB year where he might have won MVP or came close to it.  
 

Late in the season he had a throw to clinch a game in a play they had run 1000 times. Just a simple little option route in the middle of the field. Complete the pass, win the game.  Maybe 10-15 yard throw.  And if I’m not mistaken Rice was the receiver.  And he just threw the thing in the dirt.  Rice might have actually caught it on the bounce.  It was awful.  Good QB having a great year and he just gummed up that throw. Didn’t matter.  They got to the SB.  He played well all year but had a few just bad throws.  It happens.  

I know it happens, but as a fan, it just really sucks when you see your qb missing an open guy or a receiver dropping a pass that hit him in the hands. It’s so deflating.

 

The ones that are the worst are the ones where you can tell it’s a bad pass, but still could’ve been caught, you don’t know which player to get more angry with.

Edited April 14 by mac8887

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, mac8887 said:

I know it happens, but as a fan, it just really sucks when you see your qb missing an open guy or a receiver dropping a pass that hit him in the hands. It’s so deflating.

Sure,  but it’s kindof the cost of doing business.  Literally nobody is perfect.  Jerry Rice dropped balls and Joe Montana missed passes.  
 

The great ones just don’t do it very often or in big spots. 
 

But it happens to every player. 

 

Emmit Smith rarely fumbled.  But he did have one here or there.  Shrug.  

[Dah-Dee]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Jerry Rice dropped balls and Joe Montana missed passes.  

 

*GASP* Shut your mouth!

 

[mac8887]

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

My concern with Jayden's frame hasn't been about getting tackled when running - which I agree is fixable - but sacks in the pocket when lots of bodies come crashing. Shoulders, ribs, hip injuries on top of the usual ligament concerns.

 

I also have been very skeptical that a 24 year old at 200-210 lbs can simply bulk up to 225 over a couple years. But I am a total amateur. If Cooley thinks it's possible, while I wouldn't take it as gospel, I'd think he at least has some kind of educated intuition there.

 

Peters and Quinn's philosophy of building for the long-term (no shortcuts) made me think the pick would be Maye. But if they believe Jayden is flat-out the better prospect, I will trust them and root like hell for the young man to succeed. But the RG3 PTSD is strong lol.  

 

Luckily for me the RG3 PTSD has subsided. Right now I’m still trying to get over a UNC qb that made great big time throws, but held the ball a little to long and drifted into pressure a little to often, that just about every sports show host was touting as the franchise guy for Washington, before completely falling off a cliff the second half of the season. Those wounds are just a little fresher. I imagine though I’m much to worried about nothing.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just in general speaking of buzz keep hearing that Washington isnt tradiing back but NE might 

 

 

 

If the Patriots want Jayden Daniels, they should stand on business and trade up to 2. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

38 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

*GASP* Shut your mouth!

 

 

[CobraCommander]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Cooley did say he HAS to stop getting hit but doesn’t think it’s that hard. 
 

I seem to recall people saying the same thing about RG3. Something about bringing in baseball coach to teach him how to slide.

My PTSD will not allow me to think this will be any different 

[Llevron]

46 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I seem to recall people saying the same thing about RG3. Something about bringing in baseball coach to teach him how to slide.

My PTSD will not allow me to think this will be any different 

RG3 could read a defense. Ever. This other guy can. He really doesn’t have to run. He does and is gonna kill teams with it, but he doesn’t have to. Running WAS griffins game and he was determined to do it. Until he couldn’t. 
 

Edit - Not. RG3 could not. Lol

Edited April 14 by Llevron

[bh32]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

RG3 could read a defense. Ever. This other guy can. He really doesn’t have to run. He does and is gonna kill teams with it, but he doesn’t have to. Running WAS griffins game and he was determined to do it. Until he couldn’t. 

If JD doesn't have to run then why does he have more rushing attempts than RG3 did?

JD has the same tendencies that RG3 had which was when there was pressure he looked to run..Exact same thing that JD does..

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I also have been very skeptical that a 24 year old at 200-210 lbs can simply bulk up to 225 over a couple years. But I am a total amateur. If Cooley thinks it's possible, while I wouldn't take it as gospel, I'd think he at least has some kind of educated intuition there.

 

 

 

Cooley remembers this guy tho...

 

 

[Llevron]

12 minutes ago, bh32 said:

If JD doesn't have to run then why does he have more rushing attempts than RG3 did?

JD has the same tendencies that RG3 had which was when there was pressure he looked to run..Exact same thing that JD does..

Yea you cracked the code I can’t even argue that one good find can’t believe no one else has found this statistically irrefutable evidence. 

[bh32]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

My concern with Jayden's frame hasn't been about getting tackled when running - which I agree is fixable - but sacks in the pocket when lots of bodies come crashing. Shoulders, ribs, hip injuries on top of the usual ligament concerns.

 

I also have been very skeptical that a 24 year old at 200-210 lbs can simply bulk up to 225 over a couple years. But I am a total amateur. If Cooley thinks it's possible, while I wouldn't take it as gospel, I'd think he at least has some kind of educated intuition there.

 

Peters and Quinn's philosophy of building for the long-term (no shortcuts) made me think the pick would be Maye. But if they believe Jayden is flat-out the better prospect, I will trust them and root like hell for the young man to succeed. But the RG3 PTSD is strong lol.  

 

JD ain't bulking up to 225,It took him months after college season was over to get up to 210

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Yea you cracked the code I can’t even argue that one good find can’t believe no one else has found this statistically irrefutable evidence. 

Well where is your evidence that JD is gonna run all over teams in the NFL? 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

41 minutes ago, bh32 said:

JD ain't bulking up to 225,It took him months after college season was over to get up to 210

Well where is your evidence that JD is gonna run all over teams in the NFL? 

He’s never had access to NFL level PEDs- i mean trainers and nutritionists

Edited April 14 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

He’s never had access to NFL level PEDs- i mean trainers and nutritionists

Lol this trash argument again. You dont think a top notch program like LSU doesnt have the best trainers and nutritionists for their football players? 

[mudhog]

11 hours ago, Conn said:

The entire draft world knows there is 0% chance we move off of the 2nd overall pick, and the Pats #3 pick is where the fun starts. And coincidentally everyone in the draft world wants Daniels to go at #2 so that Maye can be the prize being fought over at #3. Funny how that works. 

Thanks brother! I was starting to think that I was the only one bothered by this. We are still being treated like the inbred stepchildren of the former owner. And I guess till we prove otherwise, we are. If the Pats are so super-smart and want Maye, we need to trade down with them and get something out of the deal besides the 4th best QB in the draft in Daniels. 

As far as I am concerned, choosing between Maye and Daniels is very easy. And for many here with RG3 PTSD, this is a do-over of 2012, except this time we get to choose Luck instead of Griffin. Don't get me wrong, I loved RG3 that whole season, and I could never hate him because of the gift of that season. But when he got hurt he was never the same. Not even close.

So now we have Maye and Daniels. Very similar to 2012 Luck and Griffin. And before anyone does a spit-take and wants to slam me for comparing Maye to Luck, I'm not saying Maye's even close. He has some similarities, as do Daniels and Griffin. The point being, a big stout pocket-passer compared to a scrappy dual-threat QB. But if they were both to sustain an injury to the degree that RG3 did that took away their running ability( not scrambling in the pocket, but actually tucking it to run) and they had to be a pure pocket passer, then hands-down It's Maye that wins 8 times out of 10. 

I remember the first 3 games this past year, and especially in the opener against Arizona, all the dirty hits on Sam Howell. Man, If that was JD, he would have been driven off the field on a cart. And Make no mistake, whomever picks Daniels might as well start the 17-game clock. Because some head-hunter DE or LB is going to bust him in two before the end of the season. Then he may or may not ever become what Drake Maye already is.

And something else while I sustain my rant, Someone posted a Q&A with Mark Schlereth a couple days ago where he and the interviewer (could have been Josh Norris, not sure) were comparing Maye to Daniels. And Schlereth was bashing Maye on his footwork and arm motion while he was the QB for UNC. But in the very next breath said that he cleaned up his drop and release on his pro day. He said he looked good at his pro day, but that it was all fake and that's not what you're gonna get if you draft him. What a moronic thing to say.

I've said all along here that both Sam Howell and Drake Maye have a stunningly similar problem with footwork and crazy release at times and that it's probably due to poor coaching in the UNC program. And I've also said that Maye is a smart kid who's probably heard this mantra daily since the end of the season and is aware of it, and working to fix it. The simple fact that he looked clean at his pro day speaks volumes to his dedication to fix it, and that in HIS case, it's fixable. 

I don't worry about Maye fixing his footwork and arm motion. He's dedicated, smart and is a dog competitor. It's something he'll work on for his whole career. Hell, even Brady said he worked on his footwork after every season for 20+ years. I believe you can take away Drake's ability to tuck and run and you have not diminished his ability to be a successful QB. Same goes for Caleb Williams. But if you take away Jaden's ability to run, you've reduced him by half.

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, RWJ said:

Sure you didn't mean to post this picture?   Just asking.   

 

Wow, now that’s a throwback. Haven’t watched that in years.

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Lol, I'd rather one of the Daniels > Maye people here do it.  @wit33?  @Est.1974?  I know there are some others but those come to mind first.

I’m probably way more divided on that than it comes across, especially at the #2 pick. 

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

If the Patriots want Jayden Daniels, they should stand on business and trade up to 2. 

I could live with that outcome.

[Est.1974]

NE gets #2 - Take Daniels

WAS gets #3 and #34 - Take Maye

[Panninho]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just in general speaking of buzz keep hearing that Washington isnt tradiing back but NE might 

 

 

 

Might be true. But it's lying season and if I was the Patriots, I would put exactly that out there if I wanted Maye/JJ. 

[RandyHolt]

7 hours ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

He’s never had access to NFL level PEDs- i mean trainers and nutritionists

 

Joking aside talking about college any players on the juice seems like the elephant in the room here but I presume ALL here believe it happens albeit less so than the glory "hog" era that seemed to put it into overdrive. Maybe those LSU trainers cleaned up their act or Daniels didnt want to play along and risk his Heismann season. Who knows yeah his frame is slight sure but him adding 10 pounds won't eliminate much injury risk IMO anyways.

Edited April 14 by RandyHolt

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I also have been very skeptical that a 24 year old at 200-210 lbs can simply bulk up to 225 over a couple years. But I am a total amateur. If Cooley thinks it's possible, while I wouldn't take it as gospel, I'd think he at least has some kind of educated intuition there.

 

Think of Tiger Woods....it just takes dedication to the weight room and a commitment to following a training program. It can be done. 

[Warhead36]

Every advanced metric says take Maye. He's also younger, bigger/stronger, has a much better arm, actually had to carry his college team, and plays a style more conducive to NFL football.

 

Its mind boggling to me that a supposed smart new regime would take Daniels.

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Think of Tiger Woods....it just takes dedication to the weight room and a commitment to following a training program. It can be done. 

Tiger doesn't have to worry about sacrificing speed/mobility.