The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's more likely that he knows he has a lot to potentially lose and/or gain by throwing. The top 3 guys pretty much know where they're going. McCarthy is a bit of a wildcard and could elevate his stock from a mid 1st round pick to a top 10 or even top 5 pick if he throws well, etc. Especially since there are questions about whether he can take over a game with his arm and how good his arm strength is.

I haven’t read or heard or seen of anyone questioning his arm strength, do you have a link of anyone that has? I’d love to see it or read about it. I’m also fairly sure he wouldn’t be throwing if he thought he would risk losing draft stock.

Edited February 29 by mac8887

[Blanka]

People keep saying his dad controls him when literally if that was the case he wouldn’t have been at USC. Like a lot of this stuff is clearly misinformation and I get why evaluators/execs would do so, they can benefit. Fans that have an axe to grind lap it all up even though a lot of proof against it is not hard to find. 
 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

I haven’t read or heard or seen of anyone questioning his arm strength, do you have a link of anyone that has? I’d love to see it or read about it.

 

Nobody is saying his arm strength is bad, but I think more along the lines of "ok". Again, the biggest point here as far as him throwing is that he has way more to lose by not throwing than by throwing. If he doesn't throw it could help keep him in the mid to late 1st round bucket. If he does throw and looks really good it could definitely help elevate him up into the top 10.

 

So not throwing would be a dumb move for a guy in that situation.

[SoCalSkins]

4 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

I think with Harris being there he just wants to convey a message that the team is all in from top to bottom. Sort of a family vibe. It is harmless IMO.

He’s there to tell Caleb look my ownership group has 10 billionaires including from sports like you want to become. Pull an Eli and tell that fossil 101 year old owner in Chicago you want no part of that organization. 

[mac8887]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Nobody is saying his arm strength is bad, but I think more along the lines of "ok". Again, the biggest point here as far as him throwing is that he has way more to lose by not throwing than by throwing. If he doesn't throw it could help keep him in the mid to late 1st round bucket. If he does throw and looks really good it could definitely help elevate him up into the top 10.

 

So not throwing would be a dumb move for a guy in that situation.

He’s throwing because he is confident enough in himself that he can wow the people there to watch him throw. I wish the others would throw. I like the question that Logan Paulson said he’d have to those not participating, “what are they afraid of”? Is Daniels afraid his arm strength isn’t up to par? Is Maye worried about his inaccuracy issues coming back to bite him by throwing? 
I can somewhat understand Caleb not throwing, he is the proverbial #1 pick and has nowhere to go but down, but the other 2 could still stake their claim at being worthy of #1 but are choosing not to even try.
 

Why don’t these guys want to compete and prove they are the best? JJ will, and that’s a trait that you want in your qb, a real competitor.

Edited February 29 by mac8887

[Bantu]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

The second tweet in this response, coupled with how he has conducted himself with the 76ers, etc. should be enough reason for everyone to not freak out over this news. But, I completely understand where naysayers are coming from and have to admit the optics aren't great...

 

... Now back to your regular scheduled programming of posters roasting each other about their QB opinions 

[NOLA2DC]

Does anyone know Harris' rep in Philly or Jersey instead of being hands-on? When I heard about the Sixers, it was about the GM, not Harris.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

what are they afraid of

Getting injured. Thats what they are afraid of. Andrew Vorhees blew out his ACL last year at the Combine and went from a likely late first early second round pick to a seventh rounder. If you are gonna get hurt do it after you have already signed your contract.

Edited February 29 by clskinsfan

[NOLA2DC]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

He’s throwing because he is confident enough in himself that he can wow the people there to watch him throw. I wish the others would throw. I like the question that Logan Paulson said he’d have to those not participating, “what are they afraid of”? Is Daniels afraid his arm strength isn’t up to par? Is Maye worried about his inaccuracy issues coming back to bite him by throwing? 
 

Why don’t these guys want to compete and prove they are the best? JJ will, and that’s a trait that you want in your qb, a real competitor.

it sounds nice, but it's a business decision that most top QBs have made for years. If you have a high grade, why risk it, JJ has something to prove, while Daniels and Maye don't. If Caleb throws it, he doesn't think it will affect him as the consensus guy. 

Edited February 29 by NOLA2DC

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Nobody is saying his arm strength is bad, but I think more along the lines of "ok". Again, the biggest point here as far as him throwing is that he has way more to lose by not throwing than by throwing. If he doesn't throw it could help keep him in the mid to late 1st round bucket. If he does throw and looks really good it could definitely help elevate him up into the top 10.

 

So not throwing would be a dumb move for a guy in that situation.

How different is it throwing at the combine vs throwing at his pro day in terms of perception?  I guess the former is willingly putting yourself in a more uncomfortable (and therefore riskier) situation, which itself could be viewed positively or negatively.

 

If I were an agent, I think I’d be against combine throwing - you don’t have chemistry with your receivers, including knowing how they break, how fast they are, catch radius, etc.  Now, if you nail it at the combine, that could be a nice win and you’re getting that data point out there earlier in the process, but I tend to think the risks outweigh the rewards (IMO).

[mac8887]

Just now, NOLA2DC said:

it sounds nice but it's a business decsion that most top 

A business decision that reeks of fear, and an unwillingness to compete with their peers. I get that big money is involved, but back in the 90s and 2000s, there was still big money involved, and these guys still wanted to prove they were the best, not just for stock, but to prove they were better than the other man, just watch Brian Mitchell’s interview.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Blanka said:

 

People keep saying his dad controls him when literally if that was the case he wouldn’t have been at USC. Like a lot of this stuff is clearly misinformation and I get why evaluators/execs would do so, they can benefit. Fans that have an axe to grind lap it all up even though a lot of proof against it is not hard to find. 
 

 

I’ve not read that Caleb is his dad’s puppet or anything like that. 
 

But everyone would prefer if a prospects dad is just a regular dad.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Does anyone know Harris' rep in Philly or Jersey instead of being hands-on? When I heard about the Sixers, it was about the GM, not Harris.

He's the opposite of hands on. He hires smart people and lets them do their thing. If anything he gets criticized for not being involved enough.

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

A business decision that reeks of fear, and an unwillingness to compete with their peers. I get that big money is involved, but back in the 90s and 2000s, there was still big money involved, and these guys still wanted to prove they were the best, not just for stock, but to prove they were better than the other man, just watch Brian Mitchell’s interview.

I'd like the guys to throw to but they have their own pro days for that now. You can't compare to B Mitch who's a small school prospect, that's really who the combine is for nowadays.

 

Its a different generation now.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

He’s throwing because he is confident enough in himself that he can wow the people there to watch him throw. I wish the others would throw. I like the question that Logan Paulson said he’d have to those not participating, “what are they afraid of”? Is Daniels afraid his arm strength isn’t up to par? Is Maye worried about his inaccuracy issues coming back to bite him by throwing? 
I can somewhat understand Caleb not throwing, he is the proverbial #1 pick and has nowhere to go but down, but the other 2 could still stake their claim at being worthy of #1 but are choosing not to even try.
 

Why don’t these guys want to compete and prove they are the best? JJ will, and that’s a trait that you want in your qb, a real competitor.

 

Again (and again, and again, and again):

 

The top 3 guys mostly have nothing at all to gain and only something to potentially lose if they throw. They're almost surely all going top 3 or 4 anyway. Guys like McCarthy are in the opposite position. If he doesn't throw it will likely hurt vs help him. If he does throw then he could potentially bump his stock up a good amount if he throws well.

 

It has nothing to do with a guy being confident or not. It's basically a pure strategic draft decision.

 

And this is coming from someone who wishes ALL QBs had to throw at the combine. But regardless of what I think, that's simply not the reality. 

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

How different is it throwing at the combine vs throwing at his pro day in terms of perception?  I guess the former is willingly putting yourself in a more uncomfortable (and therefore riskier) situation, which itself could be viewed positively or negatively.

 

If I were an agent, I think I’d be against combine throwing - you don’t have chemistry with your receivers, including knowing how they break, how fast they are, catch radius, etc.  Now, if you nail it at the combine, that could be a nice win and you’re getting that data point out there earlier in the process, but I tend to think the risks outweigh the rewards (IMO).

The difference is at your pro day, you are in control of the entire situation. At the combine there is a bigger risk of failure, especially with the qbs throwing, maybe not as much for the measurable activities. 
 

During game day, the situation will never be comfortable and controllable.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve not read that Caleb is his dad’s puppet or anything like that. 
 

But everyone would prefer if a prospects dad is just a regular dad.

Caleb isn't a puppet or anything like that but dad is super involved.

 

The father is all about maximizing the Williams brand.

 

It's been that way since at least HS.

 

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing either.

[NOLA2DC]

Anthony Richardson did everything last year and went from a mid-1st round pick to a top 5 pick. I still think that was a little high for him but his athleticism was just off the charts. 

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Caleb isn't a puppet or anything like that but dad is super involved.

 

The father is all about maximizing the Williams brand.

 

It's been that way since at least HS.

 

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing either.

I don't know. We saw what happened with RG3 with an overbearing father. What if he starts questioning the playcalling or scheme? There are just too many bad possibilities.

 

Again, I'd still take him at #2 overall, but the concerns are legitimate.

[FootballZombie]

12 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

If I were an agent, I think I’d be against combine throwing - you don’t have chemistry with your receivers, including knowing how they break, how fast they are, catch radius, etc.

 

I wouldn't be against the combine, for the vast majority of QB prospects it serves as a great platform, alongside the Pro Days.

 

But for the select few who are in a position to not need the boost a combine would bring (the Williams, Maye and Daniels of the world) there just aint much reason to do it.

[rumplestilskin]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't know. We saw what happened with RG3 with an overbearing father. What if he starts questioning the playcalling or scheme? There are just too many bad possibilities.

 

Again, I'd still take him at #2 overall, but the concerns are legitimate.

Haskins Dad was a pain in the ass too.

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Anthony Richardson did everything last year and went from a mid-1st round pick to a top 5 pick. I still think that was a little high for him but his athleticism was just off the charts. 

And stroud cemented himself as a top 2 pick by throwing, most guys had him ranked #1 because he threw.

[FrFan]

2 hours ago, Veretax said:

Yes, but I'd also note bears sources are putting out more smoke screens than Cerrato and Bruce Allen combined right now.

 

Okay,  I've been an 'okay I'd trade down camp for a while, mainly because I imagine three teams will try to trade up, with Atlanta, Minnesota being 2 of them.  But is anyone else scared of the Giants Drafting Daniels?  Do you feel the same about Maye?

I swear that graphic alone might be enough ammo to make me sit and pick the best guy at #2 because of that.

 

I like Maye, Williams despite his superior athletic abilities raises too many red flags imo, I question his maturity. I tend to favor above average athletes who will outperform due to their superior mindset over top athletes who lack maturity/mindset. In the end I trust this FO/coaches to make the best choice.

 

 

Edited February 29 by FrFan

[Warhead36]

At the end of the day I'd still take Williams #2 overall because the talent level is just way too tantalizing. But I just don't like trading up for him.

 

Again, this is working under information we don't have like interviews etc.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just a quick reminder that those who neglect to learn the lessons of history are doomed to make the same mistake again.

Remember Heath Schuler selected round 1 pick 3 of the NFL draft was a complete bust.  Its great if our front office makes

the right pick but if they don't then we have lost most likely several picks that we could have had if we traded down.

Should the entire NFL overweight that one data point from 30 years ago or just us? 

54 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve been contemplating changing my username and gifting it to a more deserving poster.

Nah man we earn our scars. You’re BFS for life 

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Should the entire NFL overweight that one data point from 30 years ago or just us? 

 

The Bengals busted on Akili Smith. They shouldn't draft Carson Palmer. Or Joe Burrow.

 

The Ravens busted on Kyle Boller. They shouldn't draft Joe Flacco. Or Lamar Jackson.

 

the Bills busted on EJ Manuel and JP Losman. They shouldn't draft Josh Allen.

 

The Texans busted on David Carr. They shouldn't draft CJ Stroud.

 

The Chargers busted on Ryan Leaf. They shouldn't draft Phillip Rivers. Or Justin Herbert.

 

 

Edited February 29 by Warhead36