The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DogofWar1]

Man McCarthy has some pretty highlights, I'm vibin' with it.

[ThatNFLChick]

Daniels, McCarthy and Penix all working out together in California (combine prep I assume)

 

Also a good debate on Twitter about the importance of being able to play on schedule and in rhythm

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by ThatNFLChick

[DogofWar1]

Where do people think McCarthy would be going if he was 210-215 pounds instead of 197-202?

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, DogofWar1 said:

Where do people think McCarthy would be going if he was 210-215 pounds instead of 197-202?

 

The same place he is expected to go now. I don't think his size is the primary concern with him.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding my position. I do not think you can point to some QB attribute or throw that will magically demonstrate NFL success. There is no template that exists, and all three of these guys will need to develop more.  If it were as simple as a couple of measures, Baker Mayfield would not have been drafted before Josh Allen or Lamar.  There is no stat for heart, perseverance, or leadership. These are intangibles that often define greatness but are not easily measured. I'm sure all three top guys have this potential, but I'm not naive enough to think I can predict something that people with much more experience routinely fail at. Two future first-ballot HOF QBs who are under 30 now (Majomes and Jackson) were not picked first overall.   

 

If you want to talk about intangibles that's absolutely fine, because I think we can all agree that they're important.

 

But please don't pretend as if there's no way to distinguish physical traits or what kinds of throws are common and necessary in the NFL and whether a certain college QB prospect tends to make them. I think that would be very disingenuous because it's all very well known. There's no big mystery behind what constitutes a tight window throw or anticipation throw.

 

To be honest, if you refuse to talk about that sort of stuff and pretend it's some impossible to measure phenomenon, then IMO that's more or less a tacit acknowledgement that you realize that your preferred QB doesn't really make those types of throws often because you're not a dumb guy so you know what those throws look like.

Edited February 24 by mistertim

[Dah-Dee]

4 hours ago, mh86 said:

’m no expert either, but I think you’re mistaken on what he means by fitting it into a tight window. Next Gen Stats defines a "tight-window throw" as a throw where the intended receiver had less than a yard of separation from the defender from nfl.com. Some of Daniel’s throws that we are able to watch are to receivers that have more than that on a regular basis. It’s not necessarily his fault, but it does raise the question. Similarly, he doesn’t throw his receivers open - he waits for them to be open.

 

also some would say fitting it into a tight window is something like this:

 

Or this 😋

 

( from this link:  https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/jayden-daniels-scouting-report-if-rgiii-could-read-defenses/ )

 

"This is a professional throw in every sense of the word. Daniels starts off looking to his left, holding the coverage in place. Then, he shifts his progress to the one-on-one matchup with Lacy. While the receiver doesn't have much separation, the QB still doesn't hesitate. He rips the ball with authority, fitting it into an impossibly tight window. Three inches further, it's incomplete. Three inches shorter, it's intercepted. That is a throw NFL quarterbacks make."

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

He rips the ball with authority, fitting it into an impossibly tight window. Three inches further, it's incomplete. Three inches shorter, it's intercepted

 

 

Uh..... I think some of the enthusiasm for Daniels may be getting a bit, shall we say, indulgent 😐

[Dah-Dee]

Here's a pretty good article from a Patriots writer earlier this week, giving what I think is a pretty fair assessment of Daniels' arm limitations, along with a Maye report that should get Commanders fans pretty excited about the guy I think will be starting for us in 2024. (edit: Don't stop reading after the Big Three or you'll miss a scary comp for Spencer Rattler and a fun nickname for the Tennesee QB lol)

 

https://www.patriots.com/news/lazar-s-nfl-draft-tiers-pre-combine-quarterback-rankings

 

"There's a playmaking gene to Maye's game that could be seen as a carrying trait with a knack for extending plays either by avoiding or playing through contact. But his ability to both drive the ball and layer throws into the middle of the field stands out the most. Maye is one of the best middle-of-the-field throwers I've studied over the last handful of draft classes, and it's especially intriguing that he can drive the ball between the numbers on a rocket up the seam and throw with touch into a coverage void."

 

Edited February 24 by Dah-Dee

[illone]

2 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

Where do people think McCarthy would be going if he was 210-215 pounds instead of 197-202?

 

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

The same place he is expected to go now. I don't think his size is the primary concern with him.

 

Exactly right. 
 

That kid is only 21. Could easily bulk up to 220 if he wants. 
 

the concern with him is how he operated a more run heavy scheme with a good defense so there just arent a volume of throws to analyze. 
 

wont shock me if he sneaks into the top 5 after the interviews. The intangibles and smarts should elevate him. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

What is holding Bo Nix back from being in the elite QB prospects? 45 TD passes vs 3 ints? He can run....seems tough and smart, has a decent arm. 6'2 inches tall. He seems like a comp to Joe Burrow for me? How is Maye such a better prospect? I'm sure it's been pointed out by many but I like what I see in Nix's highlites package. In fact, I'd be more than fine taking MHJ  at 2 and finding a way to get Nix with our 2nd pick.

 

He's a twelfth year senior who finally had it all come together for him as a 45 year old playing on a power team behind a Joe Moore finalist line throwing 4,000 screen passes.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

Or this 😋

 

He had another real nice tight window throw to lacy vs bama. Bonus points for doing it against what is probably the most advanced D in college and has a bunch of NFL talent.

 

Back-shoulder to avoid the front-side defender after just clearing the backside guy. Can't walk out there and hand him the ball in a better spot, and anywhere else is probably an INT.

 

6:56 mark

 

Dude has shown the ability to hit all parts of the field and make every throw. Its just a question of how much faith you want to put in the sample size.

Whenever Jayden did do something in 2023, it usually turned out great, he just didn't have to do some things a ton. But its not like he was struggling with stuff and throwing picks.

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, illone said:

 

The Commanders need a quarterback. There are a couple of top quarterback prospects in this draft class. Therefore, the obvious move is for the Commanders to use the No. 2 pick on a quarterback. However, that's not the bold move

Yep that remains my itch with taking Maye at #2, obvious but not bold enough for me.

 

I love it when I log on early morning over here in the UK and the overnight QB battle discussion has continued to rage on with fierce momentum.

 

Keep up the good work folks 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Uh..... I think some of the enthusiasm for Daniels may be getting a bit, shall we say, indulgent 😐

 

Yeah it's a bit funny. "Daniels then used his 12 inch penis to scare defenders into leaving the field. His magnetic good looks then attracted the opposing team's cheerleaders to the point where they were taking their clothes off which then interrupted the defenders' concentration. Jayden's 198 IQ then allowed him to plan 841 steps ahead to decipher the defense he would be facing 3 years from today while simultaneously solving world hunger. Did I mention his 12 inch penis? I love him. PLEASE LOVE ME BACK JAYDEN DANIELS. PLEASE"

Edited February 24 by mistertim

[CommanderDOOM]

Pause

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Or Sam Darnold's 7.1... or Mitch Trubisky's 7.0... or Paxton Lynch's 6.8... or Teddy Bridgewater's 6.8... or Blake Bortle's 6.8... or Marcus Mariota's 6.8... or Dwayne Haskin's (RIP) 6.7... or Josh Rosen's 6.7.

 

If by "play that game", you mean taking Zierlein's grades seriously.  No, we really don't. 😂

 

Agree. If the game is to find any excuse to post every mock drafter who picks one over the other, i could load this thread up with pure Maye propaganda nonstop. 

 

If this is some kind of competion where mock drafters are lionized if they prefer one dude over another, plenty of love for Maye from big names like DJ, Brugler, almost every PFF guy, etc.  It doesn't matter.  But reading this thread, you'd thnk Maye is an obscure want at #2 if you judge it by mock drafters.  Stuff like below pops up every week but i don't post it with rare exceptions.

 

You got two different leaks from scouts who graded Daniels as a third rounder.  It was posted at the time.  But again for my taste who cares?  it's the NFL draft, mock drafters are going to not all agree, it's partly what gives them attention.  When i post the McGinn scouts stuff before the draft, what NFL personell people think, you got some scouts who love a dude and almost always an outlier who thinks the same prospect sucks.  It's somewhat amusing to post all of that and put it in one place.  So many divergent opinions.   But in the overall scheme of things it means nothing.  If someone like Zierlien or whomever was the definitive opinion on QBs, they'd be working for an NFL team, making millions, versus writing for NFL.com

 

PFN

2024 NFL Mock Draft

1) Chicago Bears (From CAR): Drake Maye, QB, UNC

A change-up from most mocks, I have the Bears starting fresh at quarterback with the best one available on my board, Drake Maye. They could likely take Caleb Williams too, and that would be perfectly fine as the two hold similar grades on my board.

I think things could still work out with Justin Fields, but starting fresh gives the Bears a lengthened rookie contract window and gives them a chance to trade Fields and build around Maye.

2) Washington Commanders: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

I think the Commanders walk away from this draft with one of the top two quarterbacks. Who they get just depends on what the Bears do. In this case, I have Williams falling to No. 2, resulting in the Commanders rushing to the podium with their selection.

Williams’ 2023 season didn’t go how many expected, but he’s still a special talent and a special player. The drafting of Williams would be a fantastic start to the Dan Quinn era in Washington.3) New England Patriots: Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

While many people have the Patriots taking a quarterback, I don’t. Beyond the top two on the board, I don’t think there’s another quarterback in this class worthy of a top-five selection. Additionally, the Patriots aren’t going to compete in 2024 and have a longer path to success, so they might as well take the best player in the draft.

Marvin Harrison Jr., as mentioned, is the best player and wide receiver in the draft. He will immediately be the top target for whoever is playing quarterback for the Patriots.

 

16) Seattle Seahawks: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

The Jayden Daniels fall ends at No. 16. While many are high on him as a top-five quarterback, I am not. However, Daniels is still an electric, big-play threat quarterback. Over a lengthy college career, Daniels saw consistent improvement all the way into his Heisman-winning season in 2023.

The Seahawks have Geno Smith under contract still, but at 33 years old, Smith and Seattle could move on after this season. Additionally, the Seahawks could just trade Smith if they feel good enough about Daniels come Week 1.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/josiah-caswell-2024-nfl-mock-draft-february/

 

 

https://www.betcarolina.com/nfl/drake-maye

 

• 🥇 UNC QB Drake Maye draft odds to be the No. 1 pick range between +500 to +1000.
• 🥈 Maye is still considered the second favorite to be drafted No. 1.
• 🐻 The Bears hold the No. 1 overall pick in the 2024 NFL Draft.

UNC's Drake Maye is one of the top QB prospects to come out of the ACC since Trevor Lawrence. Could Maye join Lawrence and FSU's Jameis Winston as recent ACC quarterbacks taken with the first pick?

The 2024 NFL draft projections say that it's very possible. Maye is well positioned to be the first pick in the upcoming 2024 NFL Draft, throwing for 3,608 yards and 24 touchdowns this season.

It remains to be seen whether Maye has the magic that makes for a franchise QB.

What are Drake Maye’s NFL Draft Odds in 2024?

Drake Maye's NFL Draft odds vary among North Carolina sportsbooks:

🥇 FanDuel No. 1 Pick Odds	+1000
🥇 DraftKings No. 1 Pick Odds	+500
🥇 bet365 No. 1 Pick Odds	+700
🥇BetMGM No. 1 Pick Odds	+700
🏈 The Field vs Caleb Williams	+330
🏈 Odds to Be 1st QB Drafted	+500

 

Edited February 24 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

Where do people think McCarthy would be going if he was 210-215 pounds instead of 197-202?

 

Coming from one of the bigger McCarthy fans, i don't think its his size that's holding him back from the top 3.

 

But arm strength and the fact that Michigan didn't feature him enough to showcase his skills as much as the others.

[Darrell Green Fan]

14 hours ago, mh86 said:

Just to touch on the burrow thing - that is probably not the best thing to hang your hat on. That’s like saying, well Tom Brady was selected in the 6th round, so therefore all QBs in the 6th round will be the goat. The one year of success is a good starting point to evaluate though. What did he do differently to get to that point. What about his game improved and why. @ThatNFLChickhas cited sources saying he basically upped his study habits and work ethics. That’s big time for a QB to me. I think the mental aspect can beat out the physical in most cases. 

I don't want to nit pick, again if the pick is Daniels I will totally support it.  He is a very exciting player.  But if he had to increase his work ethics could that mean he wasn't dedicating 100% and not a hard worker by nature?   I want a guy who was always the hardest worker as my QB. Not sure if it's Maye, just throwin' it out there because April is a long way away.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

I'm not a former QB or anything like that, but I have not heard anyone say he doesn't have an NFL-caliber arm. I've seen him place the ball where it needed to be so his guy could make a play. He's not Dany Wuerffal or some other overachieving undersized college QB. He's 6-4 and skinny, but proven he can play with the best.  

I’m not saying his arm isn’t strong enough to play in the pros.  What I’m saying is that to be effective, you have to have the confidence and ability in your reads and arm to fit the ball into tight windows.  That’s not something I’ve seen enough of from Daniels.

Edited February 24 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree. If the game is to find any excuse to post every mock drafter who picks one over the other, i could load this thread up with pure Maye propaganda nonstop. 

 

If this is some kind of competion where mock drafters are lionized if they prefer one dude over another, plenty of love for Maye from big names like DJ, Brugler, almost every PFF guy, etc.  It doesn't matter.  But reading this thread, you'd thnk Maye is an obscure want at #2 if you judge it by mock drafters.  Stuff like below pops up every week but i don't post it with rare exceptions.

2024 NFL Mock Draft

1) Chicago Bears (From CAR): Drake Maye, QB, UNC

A change-up from most mocks, I have the Bears starting fresh at quarterback with the best one available on my board, Drake Maye. They could likely take Caleb Williams too, and that would be perfectly fine as the two hold similar grades on my board.

I think things could still work out with Justin Fields, but starting fresh gives the Bears a lengthened rookie contract window and gives them a chance to trade Fields and build around Maye.

2) Washington Commanders: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

I think the Commanders walk away from this draft with one of the top two quarterbacks. Who they get just depends on what the Bears do. In this case, I have Williams falling to No. 2, resulting in the Commanders rushing to the podium with their selection.

Williams’ 2023 season didn’t go how many expected, but he’s still a special talent and a special player. The drafting of Williams would be a fantastic start to the Dan Quinn era in Washington.3) New England Patriots: Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

While many people have the Patriots taking a quarterback, I don’t. Beyond the top two on the board, I don’t think there’s another quarterback in this class worthy of a top-five selection. Additionally, the Patriots aren’t going to compete in 2024 and have a longer path to success, so they might as well take the best player in the draft.

Marvin Harrison Jr., as mentioned, is the best player and wide receiver in the draft. He will immediately be the top target for whoever is playing quarterback for the Patriots.

 

16) Seattle Seahawks: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

The Jayden Daniels fall ends at No. 16. While many are high on him as a top-five quarterback, I am not. However, Daniels is still an electric, big-play threat quarterback. Over a lengthy college career, Daniels saw consistent improvement all the way into his Heisman-winning season in 2023.

The Seahawks have Geno Smith under contract still, but at 33 years old, Smith and Seattle could move on after this season. Additionally, the Seahawks could just trade Smith if they feel good enough about Daniels come Week 1.

 

I can see a world where Maye goes at #1. Washington will have all their ducks in a row for  each scenario. First impression of course is what  @Going Commando posted some time ago,  it is a no brainer, if Williams goes one you take Maye, if Maye goes one you take Williams.  Pretty sure Ron has the 45 years  Bo Nix as his #1 QB.

 

Daniels falling out of the top 5 is absurd. At 16 it feels like one of Chris Simms takes looking for attention and hits on his site.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I can see a world where Maye goes at #1. Washington will have all their ducks in a row for  each scenario. First impression of course is what  @Going Commando posted some time ago,  it is a no brainer, if Williams goes one you take Maye, if Maye goes one you take Williams.  Pretty sure Ron has the 45 years  Bo Nix as his #1 QB.

 

Daniels falling out of the top 5 is absurd. At 16 it feels like one of Chris Simms takes looking for attention and hits on his site.

 

Agree I don't expect Daniels out of the top 10.  But my point is you'll have mocks that show everything.  Just the way it always is.  Every draft.  ditto scout leaks for prospects that many love - some will hate.  Also happens all the time.

Edited February 24 by Skinsinparadise

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coming from one of the bigger McCarthy fans, i don't think its his size that's holding him back from the top 3.

 

But arm strength and the fact that Michigan didn't feature him enough to showcase his skills as much as the others.

I'm just starting to dig into him.

It looks like the knock on him is inconsistencies and that he doesn't usually go through (or have to go through) progressions much/often.

What are you thoughts on his weaknesses?

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree I don't expect Daniels out of the top 10.  But my point is you'll have mocks that show everything.  Just the way it always is.  Every draft.  ditto scout leaks for prospects that many love - some will hate.  Also happens all the time.

 

Yeah I'm not entirely sure what the purpose is of posting mock after mock that shows us taking the guy you like (not you personally, general you). We get it, you like this guy and want us to draft him. It's not like the 500th mock is finally the one that will convince everyone to agree with you. I'd rather just discuss film or the QB's traits than see tweet spamming. 

[Koolblue13]

I said last week that I was worried Maye goes #1 and a slew of people laughed at me. Now it's creeping into mocks.

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I said last week that I was worried Maye goes #1 and a slew of people laughed at me. Now it's creeping into mocks.

 

If it makes you feel better I still see it as ridiculous.

 

 

Short of Caleb showing up to the combine in a fur coat, not participating and refusing all questions I'm pretty convinced he will be the guy.

 

I don't rate him quite that lofty but the NFL complex at large sure does.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

If it makes you feel better I still see it as ridiculous.

 

 

Short of Caleb showing up to the combine in a fur coat, not participating and refusing all questions I'm pretty convinced he will be the guy.

 

I don't rate him quite that lofty but the NFL complex at large sure does.

 

I dunno. If he shows up dressed like this I might be tempted to pass on him too. I have no clue what the **** that is. It's like if MC Hammer and a raincoat had a threesome with a banana.