The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Consigliere]

On 1/15/2023 at 6:25 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

IMO it was beyond stupid to not either pay him the 24 million a year he wanted at the time or if not trade him for a first and change which SF was offering.  They screwed it up

 

But, we likely wouldn't IMO be where we are today with Bruce gone and Dan headed out the door if not for that along with a series of other mishaps.  So I have zero sour grapes about it now.    

 

The Kirk move alone didn't do it IMO but it was a big FO screw up in a mix of them.   Their offense has been "meh" to bad ever since.   Attendance sank.  Now we rank dead last in attendance.  That was a big mishap move by the FO and that was followed by wasted cap moves and draft picks.  Trent.  On and on.   Heck as much as people crap on Krik, most of us would still take his win in NO in the playoffs -- if this team did that it would be the greatest victory in Dan's reign of terror. 

 

IMO the series of mistakes that this FO compounded into making Bruce a punchline level joke whwere even Cerrato was seen as better -- where Bruce had to go.  And fellow owners see a sinking franchise both as to competence and sleaze .  

 

So I get the frustration but better days lie ahead IMO.  Dan leaving IMO will change everything. 

 

 

 

 

That's a nice point I hadn't thought about. Without the grand mal stupidity of 2016-2022, if they'd accidentally not been complete and total deluded morons every offseason, maybe the vile cretin isn't selling this offseason and five or six more years of misery after Cousins is a small price to pay to fumigate the place of the worst owner in all of American sports. So, yeah, I'd totall take it. The bummer is, the last six or seven years really did a number on my fandom, stage 1 was the '99 offseason where we lost Trent Green for nothing, overbid x1000 for Brad Johnson, lost out on what I thought was a wonderful QB class (but wasn't), and then got Snyder. That killed about 10% of it, then the Gibbs II failure, where we lost out on the QB class of '04 because of Boonell and Aaron Rodgers because of an inexplicably Jason Campbell obssession and then despite having the universally acknowledged worst roster in the league after Zorn, Shanny coached us out of Cam Newton and Andrew Luck, and that RGIII ending to '12 killed another 15% following the Zorn killing of 15%, and then when you get McCloughan, more snyder, Bruce Allen and all of that, that killed about another 25% and then the failure to take advantage of the most QB rich classes I've ever seen in one five year cycle ('17, '18, '20, '21) while admitting you were ejected Cousins smashed another 15-20%. So even if this was great to get Snyder the hell out, it comes after a 30 year run of non-stop beatings to my fandom that's nearly eviscerated it. Circa 1996-2004, even after everything that had gone down since Gibbs I ended I was still rolling out to Rickys and the Englander to catch Redskins games every weekend with friends, but that level of passion is gonezo. Gone are the days where I might run into former track teammate Nancy Brady (Tom's older sister) and talk trash during a Redskins-Patriots preseason game. No chance these days.

 

I hope I can rekindle it if he does sell but man, I was spoiled rotten once my older brother indoctrinated me as a little kid, from 1st grade to 12th grade was Gibbs I for me, and it was glorious, since I graduated High School it's been nothing but misery. Can't wait for him to sell but it may be too late for me (and needless to say, my 6 year old son is choosing between the raiders and niners-our local teams). The road ends with me. 

 

[CapsSkins]

As I think about it, Brady’s lack of mobility coupled with the uncertainty around our revamped OL next season means I am out on the GOAT.

 

If the O-Line needs time to gel, it’s better for us to have Howell as a mobile quarterback running and buying time than letting Brady get sacked a bunch the first half of the year.

[Est.1974]

We’ll be trading for Carr. Or at least be a contender in the race to get him. Rivera is nailed on in desperation mode for a vet QB. His blocker is the current funding situation from the impending ownership transition.

 

Vegas will take Brady on and pick up Heinicke to be his back-up.

 

Maybe .

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The beautiful woman analogy is that we aren't the ones with the leverage to be picky, Brady is the one who can be picky.  Yes even now.  

 

And considering the stories about QBs not wanting to come here that Standig reported, yeah I do think we are like the class nerds who are basically lucky to get a girl to say hello to us -- let alone reject the women. 

 

I am ok with running with Howell.  But yeah if Brady knocks on my door if I am Washington, I am letting him in.  But he won't.

 

Because Tampa Bay has such a proud football tradition and is a model of stability and sterling ownership?

 

No, they were a trash heap organization too before Brady showed up and made them the center of the NFL universe for two seasons.    If Tampa can pull that off, then we absolutely can too.  I hope this FO doesn't have the same feeling sorry for ourselves defeatism as this board does, and makes an honest run at Brady.  We have no better options in the time frame that Rivera has left to make the leap into contention and there is no reason not to try and sign him.  If they were kicking the tires on Andrew Luck years after he retired, then they should be willing to court Brady.

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Maybe it's my BFS (Battered Fan Syndrome) but we'd be getting a shell of Brady. Time is undefeated and Brady threw 8 picks his final 7 games--and looked like CUH-RAP last night. He's 45, how much time does he have left? 

 

Perhaps a year.  That's all we'd probably get from him, but it could be enough.  He's the potential bridge to get to a new era of stability and success with the Rivera regime.  He'd help sell the rebrand and convince new ownership that Rivera and Mayhew can put on a show.  Conn's right, if you get Brady here, then you could get Hard Knocks and you can get prime time games and drive attendance.  The team + the ownership change + the effort to get a new stadium would make us the most interesting story in the league.

[Warhead36]

I want to build and sustain a long term winner, not chase some one year flash in the pan that still probably doesn't net us more than 10 wins anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Because Tampa Bay has such a proud football tradition and is a model of stability and sterling ownership?

 

No, they were a trash heap organization too before Brady showed up and made them the center of the NFL universe for two seasons.    If Tampa can pull that off, then we absolutely can too.  I hope this FO doesn't have the same feeling sorry for ourselves defeatism as this board does, and makes an honest run at Brady.  We have no better options in the time frame that Rivera has left to make the leap into contention and there is no reason not to try and sign him.  If they were kicking the tires on Andrew Luck years after he retired, then they should be willing to court Brady.

 

I am pushing your same argument even though i am out-manned, and taking arrows on it here.   I think giving some strong points to help.  But instead you are debating me because while I like the idea and pushed it, I still don't think Brady will come here, so you are taking on that point?     It's tough enough for me to argue with the people who don't want Brady let alone also have to debate the ones that do at the same time.    I just don't have the energy to do both.  But to play along a little.

 

A. Tthe Glazers as owners aren't apples to apples level as bad to Dan Snyder.  Maybe Man U fan would think otherwise but in the US the Glazers aren't as notorious as Dan, not even close.  We got the Tom Brady in reverse version of an owner -- he's not just a bad owner, he is the top of heap, the worst version of bad.  

 

B.  I've been to the Tampa stadium, they can use a new one but its better than ours, i assume facilities too judging by what I saw on Hard Knocks.

 

C.  this is a key point.  Brady supposedly at this juncture would prefer warm weather.  And I'll attest first hand, that Tampa yes is warmer.  Do I think its a coincidence that the three destinations that Brady is rumored to want to go to, none of them are cold weathered cities.

 

D.  Brady supposedly wanted to go to Miami, SF, Vegas BEFORE he landed in Tampa.  Hearing so far the same cities.  Never heard anything about him being interested in playing in DC.

 

As for my defeatiest attitude with Dan at the helm landing Brady and worried that this FO will feel the same.  Don't worry about that, Rivera seems to be an optimist by nature and tried to sell other QBs last year, even getting multiple national writers to write fluff pieces about how wonderful it would be for these prospective QBs to play here.   If they want Brady I got no doubt they'd try to do it. 

 

But Brady coming here while Dan is still at the helm to me sounds like zero shot.  Maybe if a new owner is in place but even in that case this isn't a destination spot he has considered according to some people who know him.  Who knows will see?

 

But I am with you on the point that if he was willing to come, I'd love to have him.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

That's a nice point I hadn't thought about. Without the grand mal stupidity of 2016-2022, if they'd accidentally not been complete and total deluded morons every offseason, maybe the vile cretin isn't selling this offseason and five or six more years of misery after Cousins is a small price to pay to fumigate the place of the worst owner in all of American sports.

 

 

Friendly suggestion, break your posts into more paragraphs, makes it easier to read.

 

Yeah I do think that chain of events helped get us to where we are at with Bruce and Dan and if this didn't happen we'd have no chance IMO. 

 

I know you agree that Dan is beyond abysmal.    He is 100% responsible for this organization's decline and his style and decision making is a constant stench on this franchise.

 

I experienced Gibbs 1 during my younger days too.  I'll never forget it.  And after I moved away from DC, I've seen this team's decline not just as a winning team and declining attendance but also national relevance.  As Albert Breer said (paraphrasing) he's never seen a flagship organization destroyed by an owner and turned into a non-flagship organziation like this case.

 

If you told me back in my high school days that national TV shows would refer to this team as one of the two teams that no one in their national audience cares to hear about, yawn, I'd say you are crazy.  Ditto that they'd be ranked dead last in fan attendance.  They couldn't get Sunday Night TV appearances.  Kids in DC rooting for other teams.  The Ravens owning Maryland and creeping into DC.  On and On.

 

It's a quirky thing of mine but this team becoming obscure really bugs me.  It goes beyond just the winning and losing.  My brother in law came with me for example to meet Scot McCloughan years ago after I won an auction -- he was a hard core fan.  Now he's a Dolphins fan and is pushing his son that way, too.  All of that stuff bugs the heck out of me.  So anything that brings some relevance to this team on a national stage moves me even beyond the winning-losing. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

42 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll be trading for Carr. Or at least be a contender in the race to get him. Rivera is nailed on in desperation mode for a vet QB. His blocker is the current funding situation from the impending ownership transition.

 

The looming need to win makes this pathway all the more likely as long as long as the financial situation makes it possible. The rest of the div looking strong adds even more pressure. No time for a growth curve, Gotta come out swingin' if you wanna keep your job.

 

I'm in the same boat. I think they identify a target or two and go after them in a similar manner to years past. I don't see them settling with what they got unless pretty much forced to by Dan completely closing the purse strings.

[NewCliche21]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's a quirky thing of mine but this team becoming obscure really bugs me.  It goes beyond just the winning and losing.  My brother in law came with me for example to meet Scot McCloughan years ago after I won an auction -- it was a hard core fan.  Now he's a Dolphins fan and is pushing his son that way, too.  All of that stuff bugs the heck out of me.  So anything that brings some relevance to this team on a national stage moves me even beyond the winning-losing. 

 

Raising a 5 and 7 year old right now, near Philly, is ****ing awful. The biggest reason I want this change so desperately is because I have nothing to prove that we're worth cheering for when I'm making Andrew Dice Clay blush whenever I'm watching the game and the local team is on their way to maybe their second Super Bowl win, all in my kids' lives.

The seething hatred I have for what that man's done, and how it impacts me personally minute to minute.

[mistertim]

58 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll be trading for Carr. Or at least be a contender in the race to get him. Rivera is nailed on in desperation mode for a vet QB. His blocker is the current funding situation from the impending ownership transition.

 

Vegas will take Brady on and pick up Heinicke to be his back-up.

 

Maybe .

 

Carr has a no-trade clause so he basically gets veto power over where he goes. I think it's highly unlikely that he'll void that for us. The only way that won't be applicable is if they can't find any trade partners are are forced to cut him instead. But I'm assuming that is their absolute last resort if they can't work something out.

 

I think he'll end up with the Jets, Colts, or maybe Saints...though the Saints are also in cap hell. Carolina could be another possibility, depending on what they think of Corral. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/16/2023 at 7:18 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

the ESPN writer who said it was Dan who wanted Wentz is a national award winner with a good rep.  Dan who is afraid of his own shadow in public made a rare statement about Wentz saying "we finaly found our QB."

 

I suspect some in that FO did want Wentz but also suspect dissension on it and wouldn't surprise me at all that Dan was the most hopped up about making the move.

It wouldn't surprise me. The plusses were always there, this guy has the physical tools that merited #1 overall consideration. He also produced raw counting stats when healthy that were really attractive. The problem was that everything on game day left something to be desired, both w/teammates, front offices, brass, w/everyone, and the production never resulted in anything terribly tangible, so they were probably betting on his physical tools which stood out in contrast to Heinicke's. I don't know who was to blame and I don't really care beyond the team just moving on period from this pay through the nose stupidity. We have come out on the bad end of every single trade we've made for a QB since the Snyder era started, we paid through the nose for Brad, paid for a washed Boonell and a washed McNabb, paid too much for an Alex Smith that was a cut candidate like Boonell 15 years earlier and if not for a Went injury, likely paid a 2nd, and a 3rd, plus a 2nd round trade down for another cut candidate in Wentz. It just needs to stop, period. Pick up guys off the waiver wire, or draft and develop. Quit doing this unless its a legit franchise talent (which never happens w/only the rarest of exceptions).

 

I would note, and which we should always probably keep in our pocket, that it was supposedly Jimmy G that was the real target, not Wentz, but that a Jimmy G surgery issue scared us off, not that that is much better (that being said, Jimmy G is okay and well liked by teammates and a leader, he's just not what they once thought he might become back in '17-'18, he's very average at everything beyond leadership). 

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Friendly suggestion, break your posts into more paragraphs, makes it easier to read.

 

Looks like this fell on deaf ears. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:55 AM, KDawg said:

I don’t care how they spend their money. All I know is that with their current time and no receivers they tied us and beat us and have consistently beaten us. Until we take the number they have on us, they can pay whoever and I won’t write them off.

If they overpay the hell out of Daniel Jones, which is probably happening, that's good for us, period, especially if Snyder sells and the chance for sanity finally opens up here. There winning was good news as far as I'm concerned. I just hope Jones isn't the reason they lose next weekend. Need them to lose due to the Eagles general superiority so they can make a real stupid bet AGAIN on Jones. Those kind of boondoggles help. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:51 AM, KDawg said:

 

How about I word this differently: I don't believe it's a hindrance to their performance in the least to pay their QB with a rising salary cap. We are celebrating things that don't make sense to celebrate, in my opinion. 

Paying a QB that's basically has the stench of a Flacco contract year super bowl run caliber deal is a winner for us. I don't believe Jones is a top 15 QB in this league, Im skeptical he's even top 20. If he gets paid that money, that helps us. It's multiple years their tied to a QB that isn't a difference making option at the position. That's good news, it pushes back their solving the QB problem to '25-'26 or beyond. 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Raising a 5 and 7 year old right now, near Philly, is ****ing awful. The biggest reason I want this change so desperately is because I have nothing to prove that we're worth cheering for when I'm making Andrew Dice Clay blush whenever I'm watching the game and the local team is on their way to maybe their second Super Bowl win, all in my kids' lives.

The seething hatred I have for what that man's done, and how it impacts me personally minute to minute.

 

Part of why I love wearing Commanders-Washington-Redskins gear espeically when I travel is it engages people to talk football with me at times and I've seen an evolution in a bad way on that front for this team over time.  Sad decline.

 

So when people here say no to Hard Knocks or name that move that would give this franchise an iota of a national stage, I cringe.  It's cool to disagree so I got no issue with different opinions but what goes through my mind is the ship has hit the Titanic and I feel it.  We aren't in position to be picky.  We desperately need a jolt.  JP Finlay among others liked to say he used to see a lot of kids in the DMV with Washington jerseys, now he sees really no kids wear them out and about.

 

I am not one of those parents who just lets their kid root for whomever, I've really worked it to keep them in house.     I live in Florida where we got fans from everywhere.  And I've seen this team's irrelevance get worse and worse over the years.  Even 10 years ago, I'd say we'd have an average number of Washingtom fans in my travels compared to other teams, not a high number but average number.  Now I'd say we are as obscure as it gets. 

 

I am not uber social but social enough.  When I go to my kids football and soccer games, parents wear jerseys.  I am the only person wearing Washington.  I talked about Disney in another thread, jerseys from all around the country, its really rare to see Washington jerseys.  It's becoming more and more of a unicorn.

 

And yeah like you as a parent I become more sensitive about it.  My wife is a Giants fan, I've been able to get my kids to root for Washington and not the Giants but here I am with the playoffs going on and the Giants are still playing while this team hasn't won a playoff game in my kids lifetime. 

 

In short as a parent it takes some work to get this next generation to root for this team.  Some don't care.  I wish I didn't but I do. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[drowland]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Carr has a no-trade clause so he basically gets veto power over where he goes. I think it's highly unlikely that he'll void that for us. The only way that won't be applicable is if they can't find any trade partners are are forced to cut him instead. But I'm assuming that is their absolute last resort if they can't work something out.

 

I think he'll end up with the Jets, Colts, or maybe Saints...though the Saints are also in cap hell. Carolina could be another possibility, depending on what they think of Corral. 

 

The other thing with Carr's contract is Feb 15th, if he's not released before then, his $32M salary in '23 becomes fully guaranteed and 7.5M of his '24 salary becomes guaranteed.  Not sure if that will make trading him more difficult or not.  Carr might want his release thinking he could get more guaranteed in a new free agent contract.

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

If they overpay the hell out of Daniel Jones, which is probably happening, that's good for us, period, especially if Snyder sells and the chance for sanity finally opens up here. There winning was good news as far as I'm concerned. I just hope Jones isn't the reason they lose next weekend. Need them to lose due to the Eagles general superiority so they can make a real stupid bet AGAIN on Jones. Those kind of boondoggles help. 

Sorry guys, you won’t convince me that a Daboll style QB who just had his best overall season as a pro and has looked legitimate the last few weeks, for about market value, is a good thing for us. 
 

You guys can continue to try. I don’t buy it. We’ll see who’s right in a few years. I could be wrong. I think he’s going to be a solid QB for the next 3-5 seasons. 

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll be trading for Carr. Or at least be a contender in the race to get him. Rivera is nailed on in desperation mode for a vet QB. His blocker is the current funding situation from the impending ownership transition.

 

Vegas will take Brady on and pick up Heinicke to be his back-up.

 

Maybe .

Ron is likely to be on an extreme budget. Dan’s not spending a dime if he’s selling. So, think Bridgewater, Winston, Mariotta,Dalton,Brissett to compete with Sam for the job.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron is likely to be on an extreme budget. Dan’s not spending a dime if he’s selling. So, think Bridgewater, Winston, Mariotta,Dalton,Brissett to compete with Sam for the job.

I think we’ll be locked into someone even cheaper. 
 

I don’t even want to evoke his name in this thread.

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Sorry guys, you won’t convince me that a Daboll style QB who just had his best overall season as a pro and has looked legitimate the last few weeks, for about market value, is a good thing for us. 
 

You guys can continue to try. I don’t buy it. We’ll see who’s right in a few years. I could be wrong. I think he’s going to be a solid QB for the next 3-5 seasons. 

I agree. Jones has played well this year, just had a great game in the playoffs, and absolutely owns our arses. Not sure why so much of our fan base is celebrating the Giants extending him. 

[88Comrade2000]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think we’ll be locked into someone even cheaper. 
 

I don’t even want to evoke his name in this thread.

So, status quo minus Carson.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don’t even want to evoke his name in this thread.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

[profusion]

Brady's going to want a turnkey Super Bowl team as an alternative to retiring, and I don't think that Ron Rivera is going to factor in those plans even disregarding the ownership situation.