The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Stat-wise, I would expect a successful, healthy year to be somewhere around 4000 yards passing with 35-40 touchdowns, and completing somewhere near 70% of his passes depending on how much the Commanders run the ball. With the group of weapons they’ve put together for Carson and his big-play arm, he should be able to light the scoreboard up this coming fall. More importantly, Carson needs to gel early and often with his teammates.

 

I just want to point out 2 things

 

1.) Wentz would have to set multiple career best marks in major statistical categories to reach this metric. That's a heck of a bar to set and amazingly unlikely. That's asking a metric ton.

"Hey multi year veteran player X, you wanna be considered a success? Go be better than you've ever been."

 

2.) Those are literal MVP A-rod numbers. Again, thats some bar.

 

40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You know this isn’t true.

 

He was not the NFL’s biggest punchline, until the Irsay stuff right around the time of the trade.  In fact, the whole “Colts looking to dump Wentz” narrative came out of left field, because it really didn’t make any sense.

 

It very much is. Dude was the NFLs biggest punchline before we ever put a hand on him.

 

 

Furthermore, the stories surrounding Wentz situation w/ the Colts coming to an end was carried by reputable reporters from the end of the season onward. It was not out of left field. There was a dang near month long watch waiting for Wentz G money deadline to hit and the colts to make a move. Questions were being asked of his status at the end of season press conference and at the combine.

 

Feb 13th: https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/13/indianapolis-colts-carson-wentz-traded-released-salary-cap/

 

Feb 18th: https://theathletic.com/3136320/2022/02/18/kravitz-dont-expect-the-colts-to-continue-their-bad-marriage-with-carson-wentz/?source=emp_shared_article

 

Feb 24th:

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You know, they may be right Wentz would have eventually been released…

 

But… I’m not sure Wentz decides this is the spot for his services if he is

Nah.  There was at least one other team reported to be interested.  Probably the Panthers but maybe the Seahawks. As much?  Who knows.  Probably not.  
 

They were getting a trade for him from someone.  
 

I take your point about him maybe not coming here.  And Ron was desperate.  For good reason.  He was staring down having to watch Taylor Heinicke play again.  
 

Do I have no problems with the trade.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I just want to point out 2 things

 

1.) Wentz would have to set multiple career best marks in major statistical categories to reach this metric. That's a heck of a bar to set and amazingly unlikely. That's asking a metric ton.

"Hey multi year veteran player X, you wanna be considered a success? Go be better than you've ever been."

 

2.) Those are literal MVP A-rod numbers. Again, thats some bar.

 

 

It very much is. Dude was the NFLs biggest punchline before we ever put a hand on him.

 

 

Furthermore, the stories surrounding Wentz situation w/ the Colts coming to an end was carried by reputable reporters from the end of the season onward. It was not out of left field. There was a dang near month long watch waiting for Wentz G money deadline to hit and the colts to make a move.

 

Feb 13th: https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/13/indianapolis-colts-carson-wentz-traded-released-salary-cap/

 

Feb 18th: https://theathletic.com/3136320/2022/02/18/kravitz-dont-expect-the-colts-to-continue-their-bad-marriage-with-carson-wentz/?source=emp_shared_article

 

I’m well aware of the Irsay hit parade that occurred around the Super Bowl.  Of which did come out of left field.  There was no talk about this dude being trash prior to that.  Even after they lost to the Jags, over a month before the first article you posted, he wasn’t being bashed for that loss as if it was all his fault.  

 

There was some drama at the end of their season in relation to him not being vaxxed and catching Covid.  But even then, I wouldn’t consider him the NFL’s biggest punchline.

 

 

[Zim489]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s actually not true.  He has a whole bunch of comeback wins, 4th quarter wins, etc.  you can look up those stats but I believe he even came close to leading the league in comebacks one of the last couple years.  
 

He has also had some epic meltdowns.  
 

To say he ALWAYS melts down is an exaggeration.  And I find it pretty hysterical you are claiming empty stats, as you worship at the alter of the almighty statistics.

I remember that game a few years ago in Chicago on MNF where he was absolutely dreadful with some terrible TOs that put the team down like 28-6 or something like that and came back with 2 late touch downs and like an additional 150 yards. Stat line ending up pretty good. It happened all the time

 

The biggest reason to hate Kirk? These right here. 

 

 

Are those Kidneys? 

 

 

Foil Boats?!?!

 

 

Meat thermometer?!? Where are the grill marks?

 

Keep him away from the grill. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

9 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I remember that game a few years ago in Chicago on MNF where he was absolutely dreadful with some terrible TOs that put the team down like 28-6 or something like that and came back with 2 late touch downs and like an additional 150 yards. Stat line ending up pretty good. It happened all the time

 

Was that game since he’s been with the Vikings? Or are you talking about a game when he was with the skins?

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m well aware of the Irsay hit parade that occurred around the Super Bowl.  Of which did come out of left field.  There was no talk about this dude being trash prior to that.  Even after they lost to the Jags, over a month before the first article you posted, he wasn’t being bashed for that loss as if it was all his fault.  

 

There was some drama at the end of their season in relation to him not being vaxxed and catching Covid.  But even then, I wouldn’t consider him the NFL’s biggest punchline.

 

 

There was no NFL punchline on March 15th 2022 bigger than Wentz. Man was catching flames from all corners.

 

-smashed by his owner

-reports were already out that his coach had apologized to his owner for ever backing him.

-was on trade watch for a month

-we had reports that he would be cut if not traded for a month

-reports that no other team wanted him at the combine

-crushed by number's guys

-clowned by media

-disregarded by talking heads

 

It was an absolute dumpster fire and everybody was watching it.

[CobraCommander]

16 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I remember that game a few years ago in Chicago on MNF where he was absolutely dreadful with some terrible TOs that put the team down like 28-6 or something like that and came back with 2 late touch downs and like an additional 150 yards. Stat line ending up pretty good. It happened all the time

 

The biggest reason to hate Kirk? These right here. 

 

 

Are those Kidneys? 

 

 

Foil Boats?!?!

 

 

Meat thermometer?!? Where are the grill marks?

 

Keep him away from the grill. 

His baby is like. "Bro wtf is this ****? You boil those first? **** outa here."

[Zim489]

11 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Was that game since he’s been with the Vikings? Or are you talking about a game when he was with the skins?

That was the vikings game. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

There was no NFL punchline on March 15th 2022 bigger than Wentz. Man was catching flames from all corners.

 

-smashed by his owner

-reports were already out that his coach had apologized to his owner for ever backing him.

-was on trade watch for a month

-we had reports that he would be cut if not traded for a month

-reports that no other team wanted him at the combine

-crushed by number's guys

-clowned by media

-disregarded by talking heads

 

It was an absolute dumpster fire and everybody was watching it.

The news broke of the trade for him on March 8th.  Literally every bullet point there was part of the Irsay hit parade, aside from “crushed by numbers guys” of which primarily started after the trade to Washington was announced.  There wasn’t even a whisper about discontent with Wentz until he got Covid last season and even then, it was only a whisper.  Seems awful odd that the guy was so trash, yet was totally off the radar, until a month after the teams season ended.  

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

That was the vikings game. 

Ohh that was SNF. And 25-20 was the final score I think. 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, burgngold fan said:

Charging the fans 100.00$ to come to a press conference that he wanted to address the fans!  First thing out of his mouth was he wanted to stay a Redskin(which I believe was a flat out lie). And the second thing he had to say was that he would not negotiate a new contract until after march!  

 

I dont think this actually happened. Cause if it did I would have never let yall hear the end of it. It would be in my signature to this day. 

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The news broke of the trade for him on March 8th.  Literally every bullet point there was part of the Irsay hit parade, aside from “crushed by numbers guys” of which primarily started after the trade to Washington was announced.  There wasn’t even a whisper about discontent with Wentz until he got Covid last season and even then, it was only a whisper.  Seems awful odd that the guy was so trash, yet was totally off the radar, until a month after the teams season ended

 

Eh, I put the wrong date, but my overarching point remains valid with the correct one just before our transaction with the Colts.

 

The source of Wentz reputational landslide is meaningless in a discussion about where his reputation was when we acquired him. It was already completely in the bin, regardless of how it got there. Who cares if his rep was better at the start of the 2021 season, that was not the rep he had when Washington got him.

 

What matters is that he was rock bottom when we got him, which he was. There is no possible fall from grace that could happen at that point. Humpty-Dumpty can't fall if he is already fallen and on the ground.

[Koolblue13]

 

[srtman04]

I really hope our matchup against Philly really turns out like this.  I absolutely loved the deep shot we took in the 2nd QTR....

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Eh, I put the wrong date, but my overarching point remains valid with the correct one just before our transaction with the Colts.

 

The source of Wentz reputational landslide is meaningless in a discussion about where his reputation was when we acquired him. It was already completely in the bin, regardless of how it got there. Who cares if his rep was better at the start of the 2021 season, that was not the rep he had when Washington got him.

 

What matters is that he was rock bottom when we got him, which he was. There is no possible fall from grace that could happen at that point. Humpty-Dumpty can't fall if he is already fallen and on the ground.

You say “the start of 2021” when I’m clearly referring to the end of 2021.  Even at the end of the Colts season, in a terrible loss, the narrative wasn’t about Wentz being the catalyst of said loss.  He was not a punchline at that time.  It wasn’t until the Irsay hit job over a month later, that the narrative turned on him.

 

Even then, many were taken aback by all that and questioned the motive and validity of where it all came from and didn’t buy that they hated Wentz so much they’d outright release him.

 

It became popular thought that Wentz was absolute garbage nobody wanted AFTER the trade to Washington.  You know damn good and well had Pittsburgh made the move for Wentz, it would have a positive spin put to it vs. what we’re seeing here.

[Zim489]

Lol at Scott doing backflips. Probably only because it was either Carson or his back up who can’t throw more than 7 yards down the field 

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Lol at Scott [you meant Zampese I assume] doing backflips. Probably only because it was either Carson or his back up who can’t throw more than 7 yards down the field 

Coaches will always value guys with elite tools who have produced in the past, by their nature a coach has to believe they can get the best out of a guy. Hell, Mike Shanahan self-admittedly scouted via highlights because he believed he could get a guy to produce at their best consistently. 
 

And yes, the trash we’ve had here for ages played into it as well I’m sure. But acting like it’s laughable for the QB coach to be psyched to work with Wentz is itself laughable. Step outside your bias. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Conn

[Spaceman Spiff]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

It became popular thought that Wentz was absolute garbage nobody wanted AFTER the trade to Washington.  You know damn good and well had Pittsburgh made the move for Wentz, it would have a positive spin put to it vs. what we’re seeing here.

 

Well Pittsburgh is a smart, well run franchise.  We are not.  Hardly anything works out here, especially quarterbacks.  

 

So yeah, if Pittsburgh got him, I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Just like I automatically think that anything we do is probably stupid.  Track records for decision making matter.  

[FootballZombie]

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You say “the start of 2021” when I’m clearly referring to the end of 2021.  Even at the end of the Colts season, in a terrible loss, the narrative wasn’t about Wentz being the catalyst of said loss.  He was not a punchline at that time.  It wasn’t until the Irsay hit job over a month later, that the narrative turned on him.

 

Even then, many were taken aback by all that and questioned the motive and validity of where it all came from and didn’t buy that they hated Wentz so much they’d outright release him.

 

It became popular thought that Wentz was absolute garbage nobody wanted AFTER the trade to Washington.  You know damn good and well had Pittsburgh made the move for Wentz, it would have a positive spin put to it vs. what we’re seeing here.

 

All that matters is that his rep was rubbish before we got to him, and it was. There was reporting of a trade or cut for over a month. Some of the most prominent of reporters saw Wentz departure from Indy as an inevitability weeks before his actual trade shown in some of the articles I have just linked.

 

And Pitt getting a positive spin for a trade means nothing when trying to argue that we impacted a guy negatively when he had nowhere to fall and no choice in the matter. He never had that Pitt goodwill to lose. He had no goodwill of his own to lose either. He lost nothing as a result. Trying to say Pitt would be heralded for a move, does not change the fact that Wentz lost nothing coming here.

 

If you think Wentz was only seen in his current light after the trade, you can go back to a post I made on page 552 where I compiled a list of major outlets ranking Wentz while he was a member of the colts that were all created after the season and before he was moved. This means they were posted before people could be influenced by his place on our team. No major outlet ranked him above average. Several of the biggest national outlets had him ranked very low.  While a member of the Colts, SI ranked him 29th. That had nothing to do with us. He gets the same shade thrown at him now, that he had before he was moved.

Edited September 9, 2022 by FootballZombie

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well Pittsburgh is a smart, well run franchise.  We are not.  Hardly anything works out here, especially quarterbacks.  

 

So yeah, if Pittsburgh got him, I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Just like I automatically think that anything we do is probably stupid.  Track records for decision making matter.  

I don’t disagree.

 

But my point still stands, that Carson’s name only started getting tarnished in the month before his trade as a result of Irsay, and that it got worse after he was sent here.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t disagree.

 

But my point still stands, that Carson’s name only started getting tarnished in the month before his trade as a result of Irsay, and that it got worse after he was sent here.

 

That's fair, I mean he was going from a mediocre franchise with a lushbucket owner to arguably the biggest dumpster fire in the league.  Doubtful that anyone's coming out of that unscathed.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Zim489 said:

The biggest reason to hate Kirk? These right here. 

I'm down with that.  Those are some weak ass grilling skills.

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s actually not true.  He has a whole bunch of comeback wins, 4th quarter wins, etc.  you can look up those stats but I believe he even came close to leading the league in comebacks one of the last couple years.  
 

He has also had some epic meltdowns.  
 

To say he ALWAYS melts down is an exaggeration.  And I find it pretty hysterical you are claiming empty stats, as you worship at the alter of the almighty statistics.

 

Yeah Kirk didn't always throw up on himself in big moments, but he did have a tendency to shrink under the bright lights. I remember at one point him being something like 0-9 in MNF games.

 

I didn't hate Kirk, but I didn't think he was worth what he was asking. I thought he was mostly a stat padder who would never win a SB. The Vikings brought him in as their savior to take them over the top and the end result is lots of sunk cash for the most part.

[goskins10]

12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah Kirk didn't always throw up on himself in big moments, but he did have a tendency to shrink under the bright lights. I remember at one point him being something like 0-9 in MNF games.

 

I didn't hate Kirk, but I didn't think he was worth what he was asking. I thought he was mostly a stat padder who would never win a SB. The Vikings brought him in as their savior to take them over the top and the end result is lots of sunk cash for the most part.

 

I was done with kirk when he shoved (with some force) a referee in a charity game. Bruce ****ed up the contract negotiations due to his massive ego but I also believe Kirk never negotiated in good faith. 

 

Getting back to our current QB. Nothing about his play here, just a glimpse to his personality. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by goskins10

[DJHJR86]

21 hours ago, Llevron said:

Truth is, though....he replaced my boy and was such a douche about it.

 

How was he a douche about it?  "This is Robert's team" was his refrain in 2012-2015 until he was named the starter.  Never mentioned RG3.  Never threw his teammates under the bus after a loss.