The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

If RR likes Trubisky like it’s reported then the likely outcome is picking him up on a healthy 2/3 year deal whilst taking a rookie. That’s what I’d hope for at this stage.

 

An expensive Vet is all but guaranteed to be an almighty disaster. Nailed on.

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

If RR likes Trubisky like it’s reported then the likely outcome is picking him up on a healthy 2/3 year deal whilst taking a rookie. That’s what I’d hope for at this stage.

 

An expensive Vet is all but guaranteed to be an almighty disaster. Nailed on.

 

God, we even need COVID protocols FOR THE CONTRACTS.

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Id argue the supremely gifted mobile guys aren't a huge what if from standpoint there’s a clear path to get production out of them through utilizing their run ability in a myriad of ways. The big what it is can they become consistently accurate enough and convert 3rd and mediums/longs at high rate. 
 

For example, if Washington drafts Mailik Willis there’s a clear path for him to impact the run and play action game day 1. No one can dispute he’ll have a great positive impact on the run and play action from the jump. There’s a clear ceiling with this, but the gifted dual threat runner his the easiest path to becoming competent/average to good

Could be. I didn't have a problem with the Lance pick other than I thought it should be Fields, not Lance, and not Jones. I remain utterly flummoxed at the Jets decision which was and remains, to me anyway, the most perplexing of all of them.

 

I like Willis and still fully expect him to go top 5-10 in the draft, we'll see if I'm dead wrong, but that's what I expect to happen and I'm fine with it. In a weak QB class w/no top end blue chip talent, it's not a bad idea to swing for the fences on an elite prospect profile that needs work, if you hit, you're a contender a la KC, Buffalo etc, and if you miss, you can just go right back to the front of the QB drafting line like Chicago did after Trubisky or the Jags did w/literally 3 QB's in what, 9 years (Gabbert, Bortles, Lawrence). It's not the end of the world. The end of the world is perpetually living on the merry go round of irrelevant QB's. A swing and a miss on these guys hurts you for 2 years, 3 max, we've been misery for thirty, who gives a ---- about 3 more years? Not me. That being said, my fandom has slowly evaporated over the past 15 years, so maybe that's part of the reason I'm so patient, my first love now is the USMNT rather than the Redskins as it had been since I was four back in the late seventies. 

 

 

[HigSkin]

Breer is pretty much all over the place here but FWIW -

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/12/31/mailbag-how-did-jags-gm-trent-baalke-survive-urban-meyer-firing

 

In what way do you see Washington addressing the QB situation this offseason? As a destination for veteran QB trades, we are never mentioned but with [Ron] Rivera being respected and a good roster with a good o-line and [Terry] McLaurin would the best QBs consider us?

 

I think it made sense that someone will be. There are the reasons you mentioned, and it’s a chance to play in a big market for a historic franchise. Also, Washington should have capital to dangle in a trade, given that their slotted first-rounder now sits at ninth in the draft order.

 

I think they’ll investigate Watson and Wilson. Failing that, someone like Jimmy Garoppolo or Baker Mayfield could eventually be in play. And where they’re picking, it’s possible someone like Kenny Pickett could wind up being enticing.

 

I’d agree with your assessment overall, though, that more people should be mentioning Washington as a potential landing spot for a quarterback.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

Breer is pretty much all over the place here but FWIW -

I think most opinion is going to be all over the place, tough one to call. What seems clear is that something significant has to land home this offseason or we’re going nowhere fast. Seems like RR is in that page thankfully.

[Redskins 2021]

13 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Breer is pretty much all over the place here but FWIW -

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/12/31/mailbag-how-did-jags-gm-trent-baalke-survive-urban-meyer-firing

 

In what way do you see Washington addressing the QB situation this offseason? As a destination for veteran QB trades, we are never mentioned but with [Ron] Rivera being respected and a good roster with a good o-line and [Terry] McLaurin would the best QBs consider us?

 

I think it made sense that someone will be. There are the reasons you mentioned, and it’s a chance to play in a big market for a historic franchise. Also, Washington should have capital to dangle in a trade, given that their slotted first-rounder now sits at ninth in the draft order.

 

I think they’ll investigate Watson and Wilson. Failing that, someone like Jimmy Garoppolo or Baker Mayfield could eventually be in play. And where they’re picking, it’s possible someone like Kenny Pickett could wind up being enticing.

 

I’d agree with your assessment overall, though, that more people should be mentioning Washington as a potential landing spot for a quarterback.

Mayfield was bad last night been hurt but I was unimpressed. Jimmy G always injured. They have to do something.  What teams are having cap problems who may not be able to resign there QB.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[wit33]

I was hoping to sneak in this season and lock-in two consecutive playoff appearances as a major talking point when trying to entice Aaron Rodgers, but still believe a strong sales pitch can be made. Both lines are strengths, have a legit 1 WR, and pros to support in Mckissic, Thomas, and Samuel (all are proven producers in their roles). The coaching staff is seasoned with experience and a desire to reach the mountain top. An owner who’s willing to do anything and is a great salesman that all the players love. 

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I was hoping to sneak in this season and lock-in two consecutive playoff appearances as a major talking point when trying to entice Aaron Rodgers, but still believe a strong sales pitch can be made. Both lines are strengths, have a legit 1 WR, and pros to support in Mckissic, Thomas, and Samuel (all are proven producers in their roles). The coaching staff is seasoned with experience and a desire to reach the mountain top. An owner who’s willing to do anything and is a great salesman that all the players love. 

 

The only reason I see Rodgers maybe coming here (apart from $$) is the NFC East is open for the taking and the NFC path to the SB is easier than the AFC w/ the Chiefs, Ravens, Bills, etc. 

[Redskins 2021]

It 

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The only reason I see Rodgers maybe coming here (apart from $$) is the NFC East is open for the taking and the NFC path to the SB is easier than the AFC w/ the Chiefs, Ravens, Bills, etc. 

It seems he an odd guy who wants to get paid. He had gone to cal just like Rivera. The problem is what green bay wants for him and the cap number. Green bay is over the cap. It is who I think we want but I can't see green bay giving him up. If he leaves I think Adams is going with him.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[TradeTheBeal!]

Sam Darnold, y’all!

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Sam Darnold, y’all!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

I was hoping to sneak in this season and lock-in two consecutive playoff appearances as a major talking point when trying to entice Aaron Rodgers, but still believe a strong sales pitch can be made. Both lines are strengths, have a legit 1 WR, and pros to support in Mckissic, Thomas, and Samuel (all are proven producers in their roles). The coaching staff is seasoned with experience and a desire to reach the mountain top. An owner who’s willing to do anything and is a great salesman that all the players love. 

Rodgers has been around a long time.  He’s not buying that at all.  

[mistertim]

Guys, Rodgers isn't coming here lol.

 

We're still mostly seen as a joke of a franchise, we still have the worst owner in the league, we still have probably the worst facilities in the league, and we still sort of suck.

 

I don't think Rodgers has a no-trade clause, but that could be a double edge sword. On one hand it means he doesn't get to pick where he gets traded, but on the other it's very unlikely that the Packers will trade him to another NFC team.

 

Plus, even if they did decide it was ok to trade him within the NFC, if Rodgers doesn't want to come here he's the kind of diva/jackwagon who would just flat out refuse to play for us.

 

We need to stop these pipe dreams of Wilson, Watson, and Rodgers. It ain't happening.

Edited January 5, 2022 by mistertim

[DJHJR86]

I will never be a fan of this team again if they even attempt to pursue Watson.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Popular thought seems to be that players don't really care about infrastructure.  I find that very hard to believe.  If I'm a marquis player, heck - if I'm any level of player with a choice on where to sign, I'm absolutely going to think about the teams I've played, what their stadium was like, what the fanbase is like, etc.  There is no way that any player that's ever traveled to Washington thinks 'damn, I'd love to play here'.  Add to that guys from Washington that have experienced Ashburn and what those facilities are like.  Players talk.  

 

We are already at a major disadvantage being owned by Dan Snyder, of whom congress is threatening to investigate for its culture of sexual harassment.  We constantly spit in the face of the saying "all news is good news".  When we make news, it's almost certain to be bad.  When we go viral for any reason, it's bad.  Why would any veteran QB worth their salt willfully choose to come here over other destinations?  You've got teams like Pittsburgh and the NY Giants looking to upgrade their QB position.  We cannot compete with that.

 

This organization has no choice but to hit a home run at QB in the draft.  A QB that gets the people going.  Herbert, Burrow, Murray, etc. status.  If we happen to land that type of QB, it will do a lot to camouflage the pathetic state of all that is owned by Dan Snyder.  If we do not, it will simply continue to be the most obvious factory of sadness in the NFL.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Popular thought seems to be that players don't really care about infrastructure.  I find that very hard to believe. 

Me too. At a certain level, you realize that the day in and day out matters a lot. I'd rather work for a few thousand less than work in a ****ty environment with unhappy coworkers and a **** of a boss. The same has to go for players and we've seen it. On a number of occasions in recent years, players have reportedly taken less money to play with teams other than Washington. It makes sense. When you are talking generational money, is there a big difference between 48 and 45 million?

 

Now, the DC area does have a lot of positives. This is a nice area to live especially if you are affluent. It's got pretty much everything. Good food, music, arts, history, good schools, and even quiet (which is unusual for a city). So to reject this team's offer is really to reject the team. Is that about the training facilities? The field? The culture?

 

Yes.

 

I do think Rivera seems to be correcting course on some thing, but it takes a long time to turn a ship and it may not be possible if the wood is too rotted.

[Koolblue13]

48 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I will never be a fan of this team again if they even attempt to pursue Watson.  

You're aware of all the in house sexual assault and stuff already here, right?

[Bonez3]

Mariota is a FA and has shown some competency in limited appearances in Oak/LV. The WTF's are not going to land a top flight vet like Wilson, Rodgers or even Watson in a trade. Forget about that, this is a wasteland and you need to go to middle, if not bottom, of the barrel. Therefore, you might as well look in that range. Te other guy I'd consider is Capt. Crablegs in NO (moreso prior to injury).  But Mariota is my target personally.

 

I'd build the draft around everything but QB, maybe even for next year as well. The QB fix will be a FA and not a draft pick IMO and 2023 might be the yer to get that person.

[DJHJR86]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You're aware of all the in house sexual assault and stuff already here, right?

 

Yes, and I am also aware that this organization has pushed the message hard that they are turning a corner and trying to get it right.  Rivera cutting Guice solidified this message.  Pursuing Watson makes them extremely hypocritical.

[Redskins 2021]

54 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Mariota is a FA and has shown some competency in limited appearances in Oak/LV. The WTF's are not going to land a top flight vet like Wilson, Rodgers or even Watson in a trade. Forget about that, this is a wasteland and you need to go to middle, if not bottom, of the barrel. Therefore, you might as well look in that range. Te other guy I'd consider is Capt. Crablegs in NO (moreso prior to injury).  But Mariota is my target personally.

 

I'd build the draft around everything but QB, maybe even for next year as well. The QB fix will be a FA and not a draft pick IMO and 2023 might be the yer to get that person.

I agree this is the way to go.  I don't think we can get a top Qb but I think there are other top players who will sign here. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[mistertim]

55 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Mariota is a FA and has shown some competency in limited appearances in Oak/LV. The WTF's are not going to land a top flight vet like Wilson, Rodgers or even Watson in a trade. Forget about that, this is a wasteland and you need to go to middle, if not bottom, of the barrel. Therefore, you might as well look in that range. Te other guy I'd consider is Capt. Crablegs in NO (moreso prior to injury).  But Mariota is my target personally.

 

I'd build the draft around everything but QB, maybe even for next year as well. The QB fix will be a FA and not a draft pick IMO and 2023 might be the yer to get that person.

 

Picking up Mariota is basically equivalent to writing the words "COMPLETELY MEDIOCRE FOOTBALL TEAM FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE" on huge signs and hanging them up all over FedEx.

 

Drafting everything but QB and then hoping for a marquee FA QB at some random point in the future is pretty much the opposite way of how current successful teams have been built.

 

Upper echelon QBs simply don't become available in FA in the modern NFL. The only exception for the most part is Brady, but that's because he was literally 43 years old when he became a FA. A case could possibly be made about Brees as well, but he was coming off of a major injury to his throwing shoulder so it was a huge risk when the Saints grabbed him.

 

So if we want an elite QB in FA we'll probably have 3 options: 

1) Wait for some elite QB to get really old and see if we can pick him up (which would be a vintage 2000s Snyder move)

2) Wait for some elite QB to have a major injury close to his contract year, wait for his team to let him go, and then try to pick him up and hope his injury heals

3) Wait for some elite QB to do something horrible and be released by his team and hope the league doesn't suspend him and we can pick him up

Edited January 5, 2022 by mistertim

[Voice_of_Reason]

Here are the free agents listed on Sportrac: (This is not a really impressive list)

 

- Ben Rothlisburger (Going to retire)

- Ryan Fitzpatrick (not a long term answer, will be 40.)

- Andy Dalton

- Nick Foles

- Cam Newton (I just don't see Ron going in this direction, even though he keeps being available.)

- Tyrod Taylor

- Jameis Winston (Almost certainly the most talented QB on this list.  But even Sean Payton didn't trust him.  So ...)

- Jacoby Brissett

- Teddy Bridgewater (He was with the Turners in Minnesota.  Something to watch)

- Marcus Mariota (Plays a style that I think Ron and Scott lie.  So I'd watch this also.)

- Joe Flaco

- Mitchell Trubisky (There was thought that Mitch might have been a target last off-season.  He might be again.)

- Tim Boyle (I honestly have no idea who this is)

- Blaine Gabbert

- Chad Henne

- Brandon Allen

- Mike Glennon

- Kyle Allen

- Dwayne Haskins

(There are some others but I've never heard of them and they haven't played, so I'm not going to bother listing them.

 

The folks who have been rumored as possibly being on the move (Let me know if I'm missing somebody):

 

- Aaron Rodgers (When all is said and done, I think he stays and finishes his career in GB.)  

- Russel Wilson (I think he's going to stay in Seattle.  I think Carrol retires and Russ has some say in at least the new OC.)

- Deshawn Watson (No idea what's going to happen here, but first his legal troubles need to be cleared up.)

- Derrick Carr (I get that Carr is kindo like Kirk-West, but he would be my #1 target.)

- Baker Mayfield (I have never been a Baker fan.  BUT he's miles better than anything we currently have.)

- There is also rumor that Watson wants to go to Miami, which would put Tua on the block, but I have to imagine they send him back to Houston as part of the trade.

 

Then you have the draft, with Pickett and Corral, and whoever else rises up the board.

 

None of the FAs are the answer.  Could Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Mitch Trubisky be a guy who might be able to play a little bit?  Sure.  But I don't think any of them is "the answer."

 

I don't think Rodgers, Wilson or Watson is coming here for different reasons.  Either they don't want to, or in the case of Watson, it's just not a good idea.  

 

So that leaves Carr or Mayfield as trade possibilities or draft Pickett or Corral.

 

I think they have 2 pieces on the DL they could use as part of a trade: Daron Payne and Montez Sweat.  So, could you trade a first + Payne to the Raiders for Carr?  Maybe?  I think Mayfield would cost less, but I'm not sure he is the answer either.  They could also package a pick and a player to move up to draft a guy.  I'm not sure they would have to move up too much given the lackluster QB class this year...

 

Now, the other question is would either the Raiders or the Browns make a trade in a year they can't get their next guy?  I don't know that either.  They have an interesting decision to make: Just ride out the last year of Carr/Mayfield's contracts, and then possibly risk losing them for nothing next off-season, or trade them and not have a QB.  

 

Personally, I think the most likely scenario is they sign Mitch or Teddy and draft a guy.  Teddy was with Scott in Minnesota, and would know the offense.  So as a stop-gap guy who could mentor a rookie, that would make some sense.  Which I would be fine with.  As long as it came with a rookie QB who would be the future guy.  Mitch/Teddy could either be the backup or the beginning of the year starter as the rookie learned. 

 

I'm personally done with TH as even a stop gap.  He can't make all the throws.  Miles of heart, good guy, great competitor, played his heart out. He should be the emergency 3rd string QB, nothing more.  And I don't see Ron re-signing Allen.  So, they are going to need 2 QBs regardless.  

 

I'm putting my money that a trade for Carr or Mayfield won't happen. 

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

 

So if we want an elite QB in FA we'll probably have 3 options: 

1) Wait for some elite QB to get really old and see if we can pick him up (which would be a vintage 2000s Snyder move)

2) Wait for some elite QB to have a major injury close to his contract year, wait for his team to let him go, and then try to pick him up and hope his injury heals

3) Wait for some elite QB to do something horrible and be released by his team and hope the league doesn't suspend him and we can pick him up

Draft a QB that becomes an elite QB that no one expects to become an elite QB outside of the first round.

 

It's a hard thing to do, but many of our "elite" QBs were taken outside the first ten picks of the NFL draft. That's why some GMs advocate drafting a QB every year even if you have one.

[Redskins 2021]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Here are the free agents listed on Sportrac: (This is not a really impressive list)

 

- Ben Rothlisburger (Going to retire)

- Ryan Fitzpatrick (not a long term answer, will be 40.)

- Andy Dalton

- Nick Foles

- Cam Newton (I just don't see Ron going in this direction, even though he keeps being available.)

- Tyrod Taylor

- Jameis Winston (Almost certainly the most talented QB on this list.  But even Sean Payton didn't trust him.  So ...)

- Jacoby Brissett

- Teddy Bridgewater (He was with the Turners in Minnesota.  Something to watch)

- Marcus Mariota (Plays a style that I think Ron and Scott lie.  So I'd watch this also.)

- Joe Flaco

- Mitchell Trubisky (There was thought that Mitch might have been a target last off-season.  He might be again.)

- Tim Boyle (I honestly have no idea who this is)

- Blaine Gabbert

- Chad Henne

- Brandon Allen

- Mike Glennon

- Kyle Allen

- Dwayne Haskins

(There are some others but I've never heard of them and they haven't played, so I'm not going to bother listing them.

 

The folks who have been rumored as possibly being on the move (Let me know if I'm missing somebody):

 

- Aaron Rodgers (When all is said and done, I think he stays and finishes his career in GB.)  

- Russel Wilson (I think he's going to stay in Seattle.  I think Carrol retires and Russ has some say in at least the new OC.)

- Deshawn Watson (No idea what's going to happen here, but first his legal troubles need to be cleared up.)

- Derrick Carr (I get that Carr is kindo like Kirk-West, but he would be my #1 target.)

- Baker Mayfield (I have never been a Baker fan.  BUT he's miles better than anything we currently have.)

- There is also rumor that Watson wants to go to Miami, which would put Tua on the block, but I have to imagine they send him back to Houston as part of the trade.

 

Then you have the draft, with Pickett and Corral, and whoever else rises up the board.

 

None of the FAs are the answer.  Could Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Mitch Trubisky be a guy who might be able to play a little bit?  Sure.  But I don't think any of them is "the answer."

 

I don't think Rodgers, Wilson or Watson is coming here for different reasons.  Either they don't want to, or in the case of Watson, it's just not a good idea.  

 

So that leaves Carr or Mayfield as trade possibilities or draft Pickett or Corral.

 

I think they have 2 pieces on the DL they could use as part of a trade: Daron Payne and Montez Sweat.  So, could you trade a first + Payne to the Raiders for Carr?  Maybe?  I think Mayfield would cost less, but I'm not sure he is the answer either.  They could also package a pick and a player to move up to draft a guy.  I'm not sure they would have to move up too much given the lackluster QB class this year...

 

Now, the other question is would either the Raiders or the Browns make a trade in a year they can't get their next guy?  I don't know that either.  They have an interesting decision to make: Just ride out the last year of Carr/Mayfield's contracts, and then possibly risk losing them for nothing next off-season, or trade them and not have a QB.  

 

Personally, I think the most likely scenario is they sign Mitch or Teddy and draft a guy.  Teddy was with Scott in Minnesota, and would know the offense.  So as a stop-gap guy who could mentor a rookie, that would make some sense.  Which I would be fine with.  As long as it came with a rookie QB who would be the future guy.  Mitch/Teddy could either be the backup or the beginning of the year starter as the rookie learned. 

 

I'm personally done with TH as even a stop gap.  He can't make all the throws.  Miles of heart, good guy, great competitor, played his heart out. He should be the emergency 3rd string QB, nothing more.  And I don't see Ron re-signing Allen.  So, they are going to need 2 QBs regardless.  

 

I'm putting my money that a trade for Carr or Mayfield won't happen. 

Great job with the list. Only one Qb I think you missed is Kirk Cousins who I saw rumored today to be in a trade for Baker Mayfield. Also , J Goff I think could be had. 

 I could see them trying to sell us on Bridgewater. They can get him he is a step up I guess. 

What does the year after look like for Fa? I think if things go poorly next year we will be looking at coaching changes.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Bonez3]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Picking up Mariota is basically equivalent to writing the words "COMPLETELY MEDIOCRE FOOTBALL TEAM FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE" on huge signs and hanging them up all over FedEx.

 

Drafting everything but QB and then hoping for a marquee FA QB at some random point in the future is pretty much the opposite way of how current successful teams have been built.

 

Upper echelon QBs simply don't become available in FA in the modern NFL. The only exception for the most part is Brady, but that's because he was literally 43 years old when he became a FA. A case could possibly be made about Brees as well, but he was coming off of a major injury to his throwing shoulder so it was a huge risk when the Saints grabbed him.

 

So if we want an elite QB in FA we'll probably have 3 options: 

1) Wait for some elite QB to get really old and see if we can pick him up (which would be a vintage 2000s Snyder move)

2) Wait for some elite QB to have a major injury close to his contract year, wait for his team to let him go, and then try to pick him up and hope his injury heals

3) Wait for some elite QB to do something horrible and be released by his team and hope the league doesn't suspend him and we can pick him up

Current successful team that 'hoped' into marquee FA QB like Tampa? They're pretty successful

 

Plus, league is so dynamic that yes, 'marquee' FA QB's probably will be more readily available.  Not 'franchise' QBs, but 'marquee' QBs... yes. And the trade option should encompass this argument, i.e. teams that will part ways with pending FA/bloated contract QB. Wentz, Cousins, Garapolo are all more than competent QBs that have led their teams to SBs/playoff runs and are available almost annually. 

 

This flight of QBs should be our target. Mariota is not that but I would bring him in to take 'the big step' Rivera talked about. A big step would be a winning season  and Mariota could do this. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bonez3