Next Day Thread (Same Day Edition): WTF vs. New Orleans

[Skinsinparadise]

I get all the angst directed at Del Rio but I think some of it comes off too kind to the players by extension.  The secondary likes to shoot off their mouth, they come off arrogant, as excuses makers, and they are getting beat, and I don't think they are beat all the time just because of Del Rio.   Del Rio represents 50% of my angst not 100% of it. 

 

 

 

I notice some are predicting an upset win over the Chiefs not me.  I am expecting a rout.  I do think we could put up points against them but their offense IMO will roll over us.  Unless I see Mahomes on the injury report. 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

@KDawgis correct, there is no accountability especially on the defensive side. 

 

From RR to JDR to all of the staff to all of the seasoned vets, many hand picked by them. I am reminded of a peewee team on some of these plays

 

If it were all the young players out there messing up I could understand but no...they are on the sidelines way more than they should be. 

 

[justice98]

Checked the box score to see Jamin Davis only get 13 snaps.  13.  smh  Hell, David Mayo had 9.  

[RandyHolt]

100% angst and Kenny Stills here. We have seen issues from week 1 first quarter - JDR is terrible and blaming the back 7 is getting as old as blaming the front 4.

 

1 DB getting chased by 3 WRs. What is 23 doing? Curl not much better - in solid position for a PI if they ever called those. Can't blame Landon too much as he clearly ignored the horrid play call and tried to get into position.

 

No one in the end zone, really?  4 on 4 with 2 teams out of the play completely.

 

The only DB that we had near the endzone McCain, is not even in the play. He was clearly told to man the center of the field. No team even jumped because they didnt have enough time to get into position to jump from all the chasing.  Collins seemed very focused in on getting credited with a tackle.

 

 

This is 100% on coaching its a microcosm of all that has failed us all year. If there weren't best buds I would expect JDR to get fired today.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

100% angst and Kenny Stills here. We have seen issues from week 1 first quarter - JDR is terrible and blaming the back 7 is getting old.

 

 

How is them not jumping for the ball Del Rio's fault?  They've jumped before including this year. Before this play, Del Rio told them look if you are in the end zone and the ball is up in the air don't jump, just trust me, I got my reasons? Still its just one play.   How is Collins missing tackles on Del Rio?

 

I've followed your posts for years, good stuff, I've agreed with many of your points, but one point where I think I depart from you from time to time is I do recall you tend to blame each coaching staff regularly year after year from what I recall squarely for loses and misplays.   Granted they deserve blame but IMO not all the blame.  Collins for example IMO is a bad player right now and no that's not IMO 100% on Del Rio. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

If the team that played New Orleans is the team we see for the rest of the year, 3-14 or 4-13 is a strong possibility.  I was 30 years old when Washington won their last super bowl.  Sadly, it's 30 years later and the team has reached the playoffs four(?) times with zero wins.  Along the way, I have seen some of the worst and dumbest football that could ever be played by a professional team.  And I am witnessing that type of season again for the umpteenth time in the last thirty years.

 

I am 60 years old and, quite honestly, I see no end to it in sight.  Can I at least see a consistently respectable product before I leave this earth?  As it stands right now, the football version of the Twilight Zone continues to be a very real place if you have been a fan of this team for the last 30 years.

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

How is them not jumping for the ball Del Rio's fault?  They've jumped before including this year. Before this play, Del Rio told them look if you are in the end zone and the ball is up in the air don't jump, just trust me, I got my reasons? Still its just one play.   How is Collins missing tackles on Del Rio?

 

I've followed your posts for years, good stuff, I've agreed with many of your points, but one point where I think I depart from you from time to time is I do recall you tend to blame each coaching staff regularly year after year from what I recall squarely for loses and misplays.   Granted they deserve blame but IMO not all the blame.  Collins for example IMO is a bad player right now and no that's not IMO 100% on Del Rio. 

You're taking it as a direct instruction when that's not what would make it his fault.

 

It's his fault because:

 

1) They didn't expect a hail mary

2) When they got it they didn't know how to react to it.

 

Should they know how to do that as professionals? Yes. But Del Rio is in charge of a porous defensive unit and that play is a microcosm of the season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just listening to Standig talk about the players from the secondary don't seem to think they are a big problem and don't get the angst.  He went on to say William Jackson thought they played better yesterday.  

 

Standig is a polite guy so he didn't say it flat out but my takeaway from how he said it is the players in the secondary don't come off as a unit on the mend because they haven't hit rock bottom, they feel like they've been OK. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You're taking it as a direct instruction when that's not what would make it his fault.

 

It's his fault because:

 

1) They didn't expect a hail mary

2) When they got it they didn't know how to react to it.

 

Should they know how to do that as professionals? Yes. But Del Rio is in charge of a porous defensive unit and that play is a microcosm of the season. 

 

I am talking about players making plays and not everything that goes wrong is on the coach and absolves the player completely. 

 

My point was the players should shoulder some blame.  Heck I've worked for companies and had some workers who stunk at what they do.  I am sure they'd more than have enjoyed it if they were told hey dude it's not your fault you are lazy and don't work hard, it's 100% on your boss that you aren't good at your job.

 

I agree with your point that you can blame Del Rio for example for playing Landon Collins period.  So as for him taking the blame from that perspective-- I am fine with that. But that's a diferent subject from my point.

 

Baseball probably brings my point home better.  If a pitcher is pitching poorly and the manager leaves him in and get rocked some more.  Then I blame the manager on the outcome for leaving the pitcher in the game.  But I don't put 100 percent blame on the manager that the pitcher's control that day was wild and he pitched poorly 100% because of his boss.  That's my point.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

the players in the secondary don't come off as a unit on the mend because they haven't hit rock bottom, they feel like they've been OK. 

I'm not sure how it's possible for any of the secondary to come to the conclusion they've been okay, even a little bit of the time.  They've been dreadful for the entirety of 5 weeks.  Perhaps the whole DEA raid was in relation to our secondary being prescribed meds that make them hallucinate.

[50yrSKINSfan]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Na the Jags are worse. Much worse. Texans, Lions, and Jets probably are too.

 

We're firmly on pace for a top 5 pick.

Great, a top 5 pick, I can't wait. We can pass on 2 or 3 good QB prospects and take another useless pass rusher. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not sure how it's possible for any of the secondary to come to the conclusion they've been okay, even a little bit of the time.  They've been dreadful for the entirety of 5 weeks.  Perhaps the whole DEA raid was in relation to our secondary being prescribed meds that make them hallucinate.

 

The thing for me is some of these players come off to me as insufferable.  Landon Collins as an example by some accounts was a Dan Snyder driven signing.  He got paid major money.  And he's been a big bust.  He is supposed to be a leader in the secondary and is billed as that.  Yet, that unit seems arrogant and defensive.  Those players are rubbing me the wrong way so for me my angst is not 100% directed at Del Rio.  There are multiple players in the blame pie for me. 

 

I've done my share over the years of slamming coaches.  I was maybe the loudest critic of Zorn and did so early in his tenure.  Big critic of Haz, Joe Barry.  Slammed Shanny (I was partly wrong in retrospect) for how he handled RG3.  

 

But I try to pull back sometimes on it as I've gotten older.     Maybe part of it is superstition on my end that it unintentionally feeds the Snyder narrative.  Because some say that Dan's mantra behind the scenes is that they shop well for the groceries, naturally with his input, the problem is he picks the wrong coaches.  And some on different threads for years used that to defend Dan though Dan's defenders have disappeared.   Granted at best Dan only had a few stragglers who defended him.  But one poster in particular loved to use that argument. 

 

I made the point not long ago that I recall well that Kyle Shanahan was slammed quite a bit when he was here for his playcalling, McVay too (in year 1) but to a lesser extent.  Some argued with me that it never happened and if it did it was in the context of praising them but in that process some just nitpicked a little while doing it.  I know that's not true.  I've been on the board too long, spend too much time here and I recall threads like that because they were combative.  I know there was even a vocal (granted minority) group who thought Gregg Williams was a bad defensive coach and those posts bled years after he was even gone.

 

I am not saying its wrong to attack the coaches.  And everyone has the right of course to dislike any coach.   I am somewhat agnostic on both Turner and Del Rio.  As for Del Rio, I want to see if he fixes things.  If I thought his pedigree was awful before he got here (like Barry or Haz) or this was the 2nd bad year in a row for the defense, I'd want him out now.  But he's had his share of top 10 defenses and the defense was better last year.  I'd give him at least a few more games to get it right.

 

This is how some fans apparently see it below.  I am about 50-50 secondary/lb-Del Rio.  I don't put it on the D line though granted the edge rushers are off to a dissapointing start. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

13 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Doesn't help that the respected vets and leaders on the team that people are supposed to look to are your young guys who haven't won anything since college.  

This quote may be exponentially more relevant than people realize.  For example, I think Chase Young not attending voluntary workouts may be a bigger deal than any of us realized at the time.  Your leaders should eat and sleep football.  I'm not sure Chase does.

[kingdaddy]

40 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

If the team that played New Orleans is the team we see for the rest of the year, 3-14 or 4-13 is a strong possibility.  I was 30 years old when Washington won their last super bowl.  Sadly, it's 30 years later and the team has reached the playoffs four(?) times with zero wins.  Along the way, I have seen some of the worst and dumbest football that could ever be played by a professional team.  And I am witnessing that type of season again for the umpteenth time in the last thirty years.

 

I am 60 years old and, quite honestly, I see no end to it in sight.  Can I at least see a consistently respectable product before I leave this earth?  As it stands right now, the football version of the Twilight Zone continues to be a very real place if you have been a fan of this team for the last 30 years.

I'm with ya, 54 years old and now asking myself why I waste gorgeous Sunday afternoons watching such a terrible product. I appreciate what RR has gone through personally and respect the job he's done to clean up the organization. He has done a tremendous job of getting quality people in. However, this season might be the most disappointed I've been, definitely  since 2013, RGlll's sophomore season. The regression, the injuries, penalties, third down conversions, redzone failures, missed extra points all point to us as being one of the worst teams in the league when most of us expected to take the next step and be contenders. I do not expect to see another SB and feel blessed to have seen 3 of them under the great Joe Gibbs and his staff/players. There needs to be more creativity and accountability across the board. 

Watching other teams and seeing some of the things they do on offense makes me think our coaches don't know that we can do those plays too. The Chiefs are about to hand us our 3rd home loss in 4 games already this season and I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna waste my time watching it. Enough is enough...if it's nice out I'll be golfing and paying this team no mind. It really pains me to say this after how long the off-season's are and how much hope I had for this season.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

11 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

This quote may be exponentially more relevant than people realize.  For example, I think Chase Young not attending voluntary workouts may be a bigger deal than any of us realized at the time.  Your leaders should eat and sleep football.  I'm not sure Chase does.

 

Everything I've read about Chase indicates he does eat and sleep football.  Does that change, I guess will see? 

 

As far as mini camp, Trent almost never came.   He was a captain.   Sean Taylor would skip many of them.  I'd rather them go but it doesn't seem to be a deal breaker as for players playing well.   I agree though that the captain shoud go ideally. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

26 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Great, a top 5 pick, I can't wait. We can pass on 2 or 3 good QB prospects and take another useless pass rusher. 

Someone mentioned bring in GW. Is he not employed? Is he available? Last time he was here he said that he would never work again for the WFT.

[Koolblue13]

Take the hit and cut Collins and McCain. Go get Reaves and Boston in here.

[kingdaddy]

38 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

This quote may be exponentially more relevant than people realize.  For example, I think Chase Young not attending voluntary workouts may be a bigger deal than any of us realized at the time.  Your leaders should eat and sleep football.  I'm not sure Chase does.

The word overrated is starting to come to my mind if Chase doesn't start putting up more game changing plays. He's got studs around him on the line but still isn't dominating like everyone seems to think he should. I watched the rookie from Buffalo make plays last night at LDE....Rosseau out of Miami. He got his hands up and got a huge pick in the redzone to kill a KC drive. We need stuff like that out of CY.

[justice98]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Take the hit and cut Collins and McCain. Go get Reaves and Boston in here.

 

And McCain on a one year deal, I would definitely eat that.  These dudes in the secondary need a shock to the system.  Folks need to be benched or released.

[Gurgeh]

The coaches pick the players who go out on the field, and so far on defense the only changes made have been through injury. I have no doubt Bostic would still be out there if he was healthy. Why is Davis playing so few snaps? He certainly doesn't look any worse than the rest of the LBs and he could use the playing time, especially against the weaker teams on the schedule. I actually feel a little sorry for Davis and St Juste playing in this train wreck of a defense, god knows what they're learning but I can bet they are already thinking they'd be better off elsewhere.

 

It shouldn't be down to the media to hold players accountable, that's the coach's job. Do it behind closed doors, out of sight of the media, and lay it out for them that they are no better than their record and as long as they refuse to accept that, things are not going to improve and they will be held accountable i.e. benched. If you can't get the job done after 5 weeks, then it's time to let someone else have their shot.

 

The only problem is of course we now enter the part of the schedule where we are likely to get destroyed whoever sets foot on the field.

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

How is them not jumping for the ball Del Rio's fault?  They've jumped before including this year. Before this play, Del Rio told them look if you are in the end zone and the ball is up in the air don't jump, just trust me, I got my reasons? Still its just one play.   How is Collins missing tackles on Del Rio?

 

I've followed your posts for years, good stuff, I've agreed with many of your points, but one point where I think I depart from you from time to time is I do recall you tend to blame each coaching staff regularly year after year from what I recall squarely for loses and misplays.   Granted they deserve blame but IMO not all the blame.  Collins for example IMO is a bad player right now and no that's not IMO 100% on Del Rio. 

All the D players know how to play otherwise they aren't on the field. Its all about coaching and I think he is overloading their plates with far too much complexity, is not using the players to their collective strengths, or is living in the past expecting a draw on every 3rd and long.

 

Other teams have tall players standing in the endzone - jumping is damn easy at that point. As a DB in chase mode, jumping is a PI waiting to happen ok but one that never gets called. Its a lot easier to bat down a ball facing the play, not away from it, And not running at full speed. I think JDR was expecting a short yardage get into FG range playcall and got caught with his pants down overly aggressively trying to stop that play.  Winston probably couldn't believe our D presnap! 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RandyHolt

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's really frustrating that there's so much blame to spread around.  

[NoVaSkins21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

4 versus 2 in the end zone.  6 versus 4 in general. 

 

 

This defense in a nutshell.  They can't defend the simplest of things.  This was a simple pitch and catch for Winston and the receiver.  The 72-yard TD was worse than this.   The are lost and it's going to get a lot worse.  IMO, bench some of these losers in the secondary and see what they have with the younger guys so they have options for the future.

[86 Snyder]

10 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

All the D players know how to play otherwise they aren't on the field. Its all about coaching and I think he is overloading their plates with far too much complexity, is not using the players to their collective strengths, or is living in the past expecting a draw on every 3rd and long.

 

Other teams have tall players standing in the endzone - jumping is damn easy at that point. As a DB in chase mode, jumping is a PI waiting to happen ok but one that never gets called. Its a lot easier to bat down a ball facing the play, not away from it, And not running at full speed. I think JDR was expecting a short yardage get into FG range playcall and got caught with his pants down. Winston probably couldn't believe our D presnap! 

 

I dont know how you can watch Collins on that hail mary and come away with any conclusion other than he made zero effort to defend it.  And I have plenty of blame to lay at the coaches feet in general but come on man, its not rocket science.  Last play of the half, act like you've played football before and try to make a play on the ball.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[profusion]

I can live with the rookies and young guys losing on some boneheaded plays as they learn the game. That's what a rebuilding project entails.

 

I can't live with it out of vets or of experienced coaches making bad calls. If the vets can't do any better than the kids, then get them off the field. Period.