All things defense

[Warhead36]

Broncos have it at the 40 yard line, on the brink of FG range. What does the Bills defense do? All out blitz with tight press man. Result? Sack. Driven out of FG range.

 

If that were Del Rio he'd play soft coverage and give up 10 yards and concede the go ahead FG.

[MrJL]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Broncos have it at the 40 yard line, on the brink of FG range. What does the Bills defense do? All out blitz with tight press man. Result? Sack. Driven out of FG range.

 

If that were Del Rio he'd play soft coverage and give up 10 yards and concede the go ahead FG.

 

well, he wasn't their coach at the time, but the last team he coached had that pulled on them once.  It cost them the game and the DC his job.  Raiders/Jets Gregg Willaims dialed up a cover 0 Blitz and lost the game on that play

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rivera also drafted and spent the majority of his coaching career with Luke Kuechly wrecking games. 
 

And we’ve been out here with guys like Jon Bostic and David Mayo since he came to Washington.

Yep and he had prime Thomas Davis too, in Carolina. Not the shell of his former self, that we signed. It's incredible negligence that we've had to watch this pitiful lb corps.

[kingdaddy]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Broncos have it at the 40 yard line, on the brink of FG range. What does the Bills defense do? All out blitz with tight press man. Result? Sack. Driven out of FG range.

 

If that were Del Rio he'd play soft coverage and give up 10 yards and concede the go ahead FG.

Its what he did on Sunday in Seattle and is the reason why we lost. I cannot believe JDR is still employed by the Commanders. It's inexcusable that we have the worst defense in the league and that he's still here. 

[Tyler Spiers]

29 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Its what he did on Sunday in Seattle and is the reason why we lost. I cannot believe JDR is still employed by the Commanders. It's inexcusable that we have the worst defense in the league and that he's still here. 

Yes. What is the reason for the lack of blitzing? I hate that we don't blitz more. I mean they're giving up huge plays anyways, might as well blitz to see if that helps. Drives me crazy.

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Tyler Spiers said:

Yes. What is the reason for the lack of blitzing? I hate that we don't blitz more. I mean they're giving up huge plays anyways, might as well blitz to see if that helps. Drives me crazy.

It's called "playing not to lose" and then losing. JDR has mastered this type of defensive play calling. It's pathetic.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Everything is gonna be alright guys. We worked out three defensive players today. LB Terrell Lewis, DE Derek Rivers, and DE Kemoko Turay. Word on the street is that the Dolphins, 49ers, and Cowboys are shaking in their Nike's! 💪💪💪

[SkinsGuy]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:57 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rivera also drafted and spent the majority of his coaching career with Luke Kuechly wrecking games. 
 

And we’ve been out here with guys like Jon Bostic and David Mayo since he came to Washington.

 

It's almost like they thought that with their experience at linebacker, they could coach anyone to be a great linebacker. 

 

It hasn't worked out that way.

[DWinzit]

16 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

It's almost like they thought that with their experience at linebacker, they could coach anyone to be a great linebacker. 

 

It hasn't worked out that way.

Yeah, other than reaching on Davis, they have almost ignored the need to better LB's. Well, they did say they were going to look to improve LB's each year but never did, just added jags.

 

RR and JDR played LB's smug and has back fired every year

[kingdaddy]

They were just talking on Sirius radio about how the Vikings totally changed their scheme on defense and have gone on a tear. Vance Joseph is their DC. Supposedly they changed things up based on their personnel being a better fit in the current scheme over the old one. This got me thinking....I wonder if JDR knows you're allowed to change things up if something is not working? Like for example, if you have the worst ranked defense in the league it might be prudent to change up your scheme or try different things over continuing to think what you're already doing will eventually work? I also wonder if RR has had conversations with JDR about changing things up but maybe that would be overstepping his bounds as head coach and would threaten their friendship? 

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

They were just talking on Sirius radio about how the Vikings totally changed their scheme on defense and have gone on a tear. Vance Joseph is their DC. Supposedly they changed things up based on their personnel being a better fit in the current scheme over the old one. This got me thinking....I wonder if JDR knows you're allowed to change things up if something is not working? Like for example, if you have the worst ranked defense in the league it might be prudent to change up your scheme or try different things over continuing to think what you're already doing will eventually work? I also wonder if RR has had conversations with JDR about changing things up but maybe that would be overstepping his bounds as head coach and would threaten their friendship? 

 

 

I want to say Vance Joseph is the DC of the Broncos.  Its a return for him because he used to be their HC.  I think Brian Flores is the DC of the Miami Dolphins.

[method man]

What Sheehan and Keim pointed out is that they started with the zone match scheme and have paused that for the most part because the players were not picking it up. They are apparently playing a lot of man now

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

What Sheehan and Keim pointed out is that they started with the zone match scheme and have paused that for the most part because the players were not picking it up. They are apparently playing a lot of man now

On one hand, I feel for Del Rio.  Last year he wanted to play more man and it burned him until he benched WJIII and moved to more zone.  This year, it’s the zone match issue.  On the other hand, Jack keeps trying to make these changes and I think it’s somewhat wasting the fact that most of the guys have been in the same system for a spell.  Add wrinkles, sure, but don’t make radical changes unless forced into it (or because you’re adapting to your personnel).

 

I do think we, as fans, tend to get a little impatient with growing pains, and Jack deserves some credit for giving guys (and his scheme) a chance to work, but then adjusting when it doesn’t.  I don’t think he’s the out of touch dinosaur he’s been labeled as*.  With all of that said, I’m very much looking forward to moving on from him - I don’t think he puts nearly enough focus on putting his guys in a position to succeed, but instead getting too cute in trying to force guys into his scheme de jour.  As a sidenote, I imagine that also makes life harder on personnel guys (do you want zone corners or man corners?  Do you want more of a coverage linebacker or a run stopping LB?  Are you looking for guys adept at blitzing?  Do you want ends that are good at contain or ones that can get after the qb?  And so on.)

 

*expanding on this point, he added the Buffalo nickel role, alternates between 3 safeties and 3 corners, utilizes 5 down linemen, has switched coverage types (man/zone/zone match) and has blitzed at a greater rate than he’s been given credit for.   He has also experimented a lot with personnel - WJIII, tried Wildgoose in the slot last year, put DJ into the lineup, moved Collins (and Curl) to the BN role, alternated St Juste from outside to slot corner, etc.  It’s also pretty apparent that he’s had a dearth of talent in the back 7 beyond Curl and Fuller (and Forrest).  Now some of that may be on him, and I’m not trying to argue he’s done a good job, just pointing out that he’s tried different things versus sticking to one way of doing things (which would be more in line with the “dinosaur” argument).

[method man]

13 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

On one hand, I feel for Del Rio.  Last year he wanted to play more man and it burned him until he benched WJIII and moved to more zone.  This year, it’s the zone match issue.  On the other hand, Jack keeps trying to make these changes and I think it’s somewhat wasting the fact that most of the guys have been in the same system for a spell.  Add wrinkles, sure, but don’t make radical changes unless forced into it (or because you’re adapting to your personnel).

 

I do think we, as fans, tend to get a little impatient with growing pains, and Jack deserves some credit for giving guys (and his scheme) a chance to work, but then adjusting when it doesn’t.  I don’t think he’s the out of touch dinosaur he’s been labeled as*.  With all of that said, I’m very much looking forward to moving on from him - I don’t think he puts nearly enough focus on putting his guys in a position to succeed, but instead getting too cute in trying to force guys into his scheme de jour.  As a sidenote, I imagine that also makes life harder on personnel guys (do you want zone corners or man corners?  Do you want more of a coverage linebacker or a run stopping LB?  Are you looking for guys adept at blitzing?  Do you want ends that are good at contain or ones that can get after the qb?  And so on.)

 

*expanding on this point, he added the Buffalo nickel role, alternates between 3 safeties and 3 corners, utilizes 5 down linemen, has switched coverage types (man/zone/zone match) and has blitzed at a greater rate than he’s been given credit for.   He has also experimented a lot with personnel - WJIII, tried Wildgoose in the slot last year, put DJ into the lineup, moved Collins (and Curl) to the BN role, alternated St Juste from outside to slot corner, etc.  It’s also pretty apparent that he’s had a dearth of talent in the back 7 beyond Curl and Fuller (and Forrest).  Now some of that may be on him, and I’m not trying to argue he’s done a good job, just pointing out that he’s tried different things versus sticking to one way of doing things (which would be more in line with the “dinosaur” argument).

 

I agree with most of this. He is coming off a season he just had a top 10 defense in. He is not a dinosaur - what he has done is provide ****ty input to his personnel people because I think he has a big say in who we draft and sign in free agency (Forbes and Martin as examples) and hire ****ty position coaches under him. He has made his own bed and he needs to go.

 

I know the Giants are struggling this year but one thing I admire about Daboll is that he was willing to hire a bunch of assistant coaches he had never worked with before like Kafka, Wink, etc. His goal was to pull together a staff of some of the sharpest minds. I hope the next HC is willing to do the same thing vs hire a bunch of cronies like his son's high school coach like JDR did with Visselmeyer

[Conn]

35 minutes ago, method man said:

I know the Giants are struggling this year but one thing I admire about Daboll is that he was willing to hire a bunch of assistant coaches he had never worked with before like Kafka, Wink, etc. His goal was to pull together a staff of some of the sharpest minds. I hope the next HC is willing to do the same thing vs hire a bunch of cronies like his son's high school coach like JDR did with Visselmeyer

Agreed, I admire this. They’re dunzo because of injuries and because they committed to Daniel Jones, but that’s still a great staff. I also hope our next HC tries to attract the best thinkers and teachers in the same way, rather than always what’s “comfortable”.

[method man]

24 minutes ago, Conn said:

Agreed, I admire this. They’re dunzo because of injuries and because they committed to Daniel Jones, but that’s still a great staff. I also hope our next HC tries to attract the best thinkers and teachers in the same way, rather than always what’s “comfortable”.

The Shanahans did this too here. They focused on hiring young bright coaches who  would bring their perspective and challenge them vs being yes men, hence why that staff makes up 20% of all HC jobs in the league today

[RandyHolt]

Everyone remember how awesome Jamin looked on that 1 play he was used to his strengths, and allowed to run blitz?

 

We are lucky to see him unleashed even once a week.

[method man]

38 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Everyone remember how awesome Jamin looked on that 1 play he was used to his strengths, and allowed to run blitz?

 

We are lucky to see him unleashed even once a week.

 

My guess is, because he is the only legitimate starting linebacker we have, they need him handling linebacker responsibilities and don't have the ability to blitz him much

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[oraphus]

JDR IS a dinosaur, inept as a D coordinator and a bum

In 4 years with him as a D coordinator we have had a good D for exactly half a season (2nd half of 2022) 

4 years in the same system, 4 years with mostly same personnel, 4 years of high pics thrown away on crappy players ... and 4 years of mostly atrocious D. Only a moron like Rivera can keep an underperforming loser like that around. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by oraphus

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I wouldn’t discount the possibility that we trade one or both of these on the offseason once we’ve cleaned front of house. I reckon we could look to accumulate more draft resource to completely stack up on offense.

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I wouldn’t discount the possibility that we trade one or both of these on the offseason once we’ve cleaned front of house. I reckon we could look to accumulate more draft resource to completely stack up on offense.

 

It would make sense to trade one of them if the GM decides that keeping two expensive DTs was a misallocation of resources.  The extra pick may need to be used on the defense.  All those prior picks for the defense are a sunk cost. Mathis is rarely available so there will likely be a need for a DT in addition to a DE, LB, and perhaps a CB.

[Silvernon]

Stop it guys.....you don't trade Payne or Allen. 

 

Contract wise you can only move.on from Allen and you probably wait until after the '24 season in the last year of his deal (where there is $6M dead cap).

 

1.5-2.5 more years of Allen. 

What's the issue here?

 

You don't need the cap enough to make the move. Howell's contract will hit '25-'26 and after. No other player warrants a big extension.

 

Kam, Cosmi and Jamin should get second deals, but they won't be top tier contracts. Maybe St-Juste too, but I would rather Fuller get the CB2 spot.

 

I'm not interested in teams running all over this team...we've seen that in recent past before the DTs improved, and it was not enjoyable to watch. 

[kingdaddy]

9 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

 

I want to say Vance Joseph is the DC of the Broncos.  Its a return for him because he used to be their HC.  I think Brian Flores is the DC of the Miami Dolphins.

Sounds right....I was repeating what I heard on Sirius. Good catch.

[Acworth skins fan]

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

 

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

Stop it guys.....you don't trade Payne or Allen. 

 

Contract wise you can only move.on from Allen and you probably wait until after the '24 season in the last year of his deal (where there is $6M dead cap).

 

1.5-2.5 more years of Allen. 

What's the issue here?

 

You don't need the cap enough to make the move. Howell's contract will hit '25-'26 and after. No other player warrants a big extension.

 

Kam, Cosmi and Jamin should get second deals, but they won't be top tier contracts. Maybe St-Juste too, but I would rather Fuller get the CB2 spot.

 

I'm not interested in teams running all over this team...we've seen that in recent past before the DTs improved, and it was not enjoyable to watch. 

We are ranked 21 in run defense, the couple games I actually was able to watch it seemed that the opponents running backs went mostly up the middle.

Dont know how I quoted you twice. Sorry

Edited November 16, 2023 by Acworth skins fan