2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[wilco_holland]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Troy mother ****ing Akpe!!!

 

To bad Dan is not buying it and handing him Adam A money. 

[Anselmheifer]

 

He seems like such a genuine nice kid.  Took a small time program to the the final 4 in college football. It’s hard not to root for him. 

[Die Hard]

47 minutes ago, sebestian said:

K. Hamilton models his game around this guy, most of us may know about him.

 

SEAN TAYLOR TRIBUTE || "Irreplaceable" || CAREER HIGHLIGHTS - Bing video

 

Gone but NEVER forgotten.

 

Sean was the best, simply the best.

Sean was never the best. He had the potential of being the best. And he was finally just beginning to scrape the surface of fulfilling his potential when he was tragically taken away from us. 
 

He left us with some glimpses of what he was going to become. And they were spectacular.

[ClaytoAli]

3 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Sean was never the best. He had the potential of being the best. And he was finally just beginning to scrape the surface of fulfilling his potential when he was tragically taken away from us. 
 

He left us with some glimpses of what he was going to become. And they were spectacular.

Crazy as is was, but I wonder if his best would have 2 - 3 years or shorter due to injury. Seems the way it goes with good to great DBs.

[Die Hard]

5 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

Crazy as is was, but I wonder if his best would have 2 - 3 years or shorter due to injury. Seems the way it goes with good to great DBs.

Rookies seem to play reckless and ball out to make the NFL, prove their worth/value…. and as soon as they get that big contract extension…. the injuries start happening.

 

I can’t say it’s specific to any position in the NFL. It seems in the NFL you have to get lucky not to miss significant time… or have an injury derail your career. It’s a brutal sport.

 

But Sean knew how to deliver the bang. He was made for it. But he would probably miss a few games each year with little nicks (shoulder/ankle stuff).

[sebestian]

14 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Sean was never the best. He had the potential of being the best. And he was finally just beginning to scrape the surface of fulfilling his potential when he was tragically taken away from us. 
 

He left us with some glimpses of what he was going to become. And they were spectacular.

We will politefully  agree to disagree.

[Die Hard]

4 minutes ago, sebestian said:

We will politefully  agree to disagree.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/where-does-sean-taylor-rank-among-nfls-all-time-greatest-safeties

 

Even his own teammates said so.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Die Hard

[Warhead36]

Nobody had Taylor's combo of hitting and coverage ability. He would have been a sure fire first ballot HOF-er. So sad...

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

53 minutes ago, sebestian said:

Granted but I remember Collins could not cover in college.  Hamilton much better prospect.

 

That was the thought of some about Collins in the draft, but there was belief that he would hold up well in Quarters or Cover 2.  Others were not convinced.

 

What an overrated Alabama defensive class.  If I recall it was Ashawn Robinson, Haha Clinton-Dix, Landon Collins, Reggie Ragland, and maybe CJ Mosley?

 

Mosley looked like the only NFL player of the group to match the hype, but he's been quiet since leaving the Ravens.

[clskinsfan]

Yeah. I like Hamilton A LOT. He is probably the safest player in this draft. But he isnt Sean Taylor. He doesnt hit like Sean did. But I dont know how much of that is due to changes in the game itself as far as hitting goes. Their pre draft workout stats are pretty damn similar though. And Hamilton is bigger than Sean was as well. 

[mistertim]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I could see the Ravens wanting to move up to 11 to leap frog the Vikings at 12 for Linderbaum. Both teams need OL help bad. 

 

I still don't get why someone would trade up to take an undersized Center. 11th overall would literally be the highest a Center has ever been taken in the draft. Linderbaum is a good prospect but not that good. IMO he's not the prospect that guys like Pouncey, Fredrick, or Mack were, and those guys were taken in the bottom half of the 1st IIRC.

 

I really don't think anyone is going to trade up for a Center. Usually the only OL someone trades up for is Tackles.

[Chump Bailey]

I'd like to see us have the opportunity to take Ridder at some point in a trade scenario. I think Ridder could blossom into a franchise type of QB. He has the traits - they just need honing and tweaking IMO.

[pcbothwel]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. I like Hamilton A LOT. He is probably the safest player in this draft. But he isnt Sean Taylor. He doesnt hit like Sean did. But I dont know how much of that is due to changes in the game itself as far as hitting goes. Their pre draft workout stats are pretty damn similar though. And Hamilton is bigger than Sean was as well. 

 

ST was 1 of 1. The size, speed, and physicality are generational and come around every decade... However, Sean's IQ/Spatial awareness were also elite and that's what put him over the top.

The guy went from best hybrid/box safety in the league in year 2/3, to the best Centerfielder in the league (Though Ed Reed could be argued) by year 4. It would be like Lamar Jackson deciding to play like Joe Burrow and being the best QB in the league. Almost unimaginable.

[Going Commando]

Stingley's 2019 cut ups are incredible.  He looks like Stephon Gilmore in them.  But there is a definite drop in the quality of his coverage in 2020 and his reaction time is just not the same.

 

It's impossible to seriously evaluate DBs without All-22, especially corners, so I'm working a little blind with him.  But he feels like the biggest boom or bust option at 11 to me.  Especially when you consider how variable CB performance tends to be season to season, even for NFL players.  For instance Xavier Rhodes went from a 12 AV All Pro season in 2017 to a 5 AV season in 2018 and there isn't always a very clear explanation for why these kinds of peaks and valleys happen to almost every great CB in the league.  TreDavious White and Stephon Gilmore are two other examples.  White had AV totals of 19, 11, and 4 the past three seasons, and Gilmore had a stretch with 5, 15, 22, and 6 during his prime.

 

This cuts against the grain of popular perception of the positional value of corner, but they are not reliable investments early in the first round.  You're going to have a better and more consistently competitive team if you have a Center giving you 14 AV every year for eight years than if you have a corner give you a two year peak averaging 18 AV then following it up with seasons of 4 or 5.

 

In general, I'm down on the first round options at corner this year.  I haven't watched Booth yet, but I seem to be a lot lower on Gardner and McDuffie than the consensus.  My question with Gardner is, why is he a top ten lock when he was outplayed by Coby Bryant this year, and Bryant is getting a 5th round projection?  To me that makes Bryant an infinitely better value.  And my question with McDuffie is what makes him different from the other small zone corners that UW has put out recently?  I bought into the hype with both Byron Murphy and Elijah Molden and neither has been nearly as good in the NFL as they were in that UW system.  I'm not getting fooled a third time.

 

First round WR is a minefield too, but I'd rather walk through that one than corner.

[Going Commando]

Is there a realistic scenario where we can get both Chris Olave and Nakobe Dean?

[sebestian]

13 minutes ago, pcbothwel said:

 

ST was 1 of 1. The size, speed, and physicality are generational and come around every decade... However, Sean's IQ/Spatial awareness were also elite and that's what put him over the top.

The guy went from best hybrid/box safety in the league in year 2/3, to the best Centerfielder in the league (Though Ed Reed could be argued) by year 4. It would be like Lamar Jackson deciding to play like Joe Burrow and being the best QB in the league. Almost unimaginable.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Is there a realistic scenario where we can get both Chris Olave and Nakobe Dean?

If we traded back for 2 eagles picks maybe

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Is there a realistic scenario where we can get both Chris Olave and Nakobe Dean?

Maybe something like:

 

Trade down with the Steelers who are picking at 20. We get their 2nd and 4th this year and 1st next year, something along those lines(either way something that gives us an extra 2 this year). At 20 we take Olave or Dean. Then we use some of those picks acquired to move back up to get the other(similar to what we did to get Sweat in 2019).

 

Steelers could be a trade partner if they love Malik Willis the way everyone thinks they do. But we'd have to sell them on someone picking before them taking him before he falls or they'll just wait.

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I still don't get why someone would trade up to take an undersized Center. 11th overall would literally be the highest a Center has ever been taken in the draft. Linderbaum is a good prospect but not that good. IMO he's not the prospect that guys like Pouncey, Fredrick, or Mack were, and those guys were taken in the bottom half of the 1st IIRC.

 

I really don't think anyone is going to trade up for a Center. Usually the only OL someone trades up for is Tackles.

The Ravens are desperate for OL help. Their current starting C is an UDFA. Their entire offense is built around running the ball meaning superior OL play is essential. Linderbaum by all counts seems to be a can't miss C prospect. I don't love him for us(we have Roullier) but it is within the realm of possibility for the Ravens to trade up for him. Especially since there are two other extremely OL needy teams picking between us and them. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Is there a realistic scenario where we can get both Chris Olave and Nakobe Dean?

 

Yes.  At least if teams are freaked that he's 1 inch shorter than they'd like.  Wrong side of 6'0 might have a big psychological effect reducing his draft position.  Draft journalists all have Dean slipping to the end of the 1st, with some occasionally at the beginning of the 2nd.

 

Then there's Olave.  He's fast, but not tantalizingly fast.  Slender frame.  He doesn't showcase juke moves you'd like with a thinner frame.  If a team thinks their QB will throw a bit too many contested catch balls, Olave might be lower on their board.

 

But trade back from #11, pick Dean/Olave, then trade up from #47 and grab the other one.  It would be difficult to grab both, but I think there's a chance the actual draft could shake out weird and both could be scooped up.

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Steelers could be a trade partner if they love Malik Willis the way everyone thinks they do. But we'd have to sell them on someone picking before them taking him before he falls or they'll just wait.

The Ravens are desperate for OL help. Their current starting C is an UDFA. Their entire offense is built around running the ball meaning superior OL play is essential. Linderbaum by all counts seems to be a can't miss C prospect. I don't love him for us(we have Roullier) but it is within the realm of possibility for the Ravens to trade up for him. Especially since there are two other extremely OL needy teams picking between us and them. 

 

I think it's a bit weird both Steelers and Ravens are drooling over prospects to the point everyone knows they're tempted to trade up for them.  I feel like normally they aren't that obvious.  Still think it's less than a 50% chance either actually trade up, but who knows.

[HigSkin]

 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

The Ravens are desperate for OL help. Their current starting C is an UDFA. Their entire offense is built around running the ball meaning superior OL play is essential. Linderbaum by all counts seems to be a can't miss C prospect. I don't love him for us(we have Roullier) but it is within the realm of possibility for the Ravens to trade up for him. Especially since there are two other extremely OL needy teams picking between us and them. 

 

That sort of move would absolutely reek of desperation and that's not the Steelers M.O. They're generally pretty patient and rational when it comes to their drafts. Not only using a 1st but also giving up extra picks for such a low positional value would be very out of character for them.

 

Linderbaum is a very good prospect but the value just isn't there to move up. I think they'll wait and if he gets to them they may snag him. And IMO there's very little reason to believe he won't be there since Center is such a low value position draft-wise so probably not much reason for them to move up.

[KDawg]

44 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I'd like to see us have the opportunity to take Ridder at some point in a trade scenario. I think Ridder could blossom into a franchise type of QB. He has the traits - they just need honing and tweaking IMO.

I want to understand this.

 

What trade scenario do you think would net us a pick that would justify Ridder over another prospect. I would assume at the latest he will go early round 2.

 

I am not trying to poo poo this idea, though I wouldn't do it and don't see a reason... I am open that perhaps there is a scenario I'm not thinking of.

 

To be straight forward, I think our team has much larger holes than backup QB and if we thought Ridder was the next franchise guy I think we may have an opportunity at a better player next year in the first and the second round.

[skinny21]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I want to understand this.

 

What trade scenario do you think would net us a pick that would justify Ridder over another prospect. I would assume at the latest he will go early round 2.

 

I am not trying to poo poo this idea, though I wouldn't do it and don't see a reason... I am open that perhaps there is a scenario I'm not thinking of.

 

To be straight forward, I think our team has much larger holes than backup QB and if we thought Ridder was the next franchise guy I think we may have an opportunity at a better player next year in the first and the second round.

I fully agree, and I doubt there’s any scenario you aren’t thinking of.  I’d be pretty shocked if they drafted a qb in the first 2 rounds.

 

If it did play out with us drafting Ridder (however unlikely I/we think it is), and I was trying to come up with reasons why they did, I’d look at these factors:

Is Wentz going to want a new deal after this season as he won’t have guaranteed money left?

Is the staff so gung-ho on having a franchise, long term qb that they’re willing to take extra risks?

Is the staff confident enough in this roster (aside from wanting a good ILB via FA or in the first 2 rounds) that they’d be more willing to take a risk on Ridder?

Does the team pull off a trade down that recoups some of our lost picks, thereby tempting them to use a single pick on a chance at a franchise qb, even at the risk of short term gain (ie passing on a better prospect that can improve the team in the short term)?

Does that confidence (along with belief Wentz will be a significant improvement) lead the staff to think they won’t have a chance to draft high enough for a top qb in the next 1-3 years?

Did interviews with Ridder’s coaches give them enough confidence to believe he can/will improve in the areas he needs to?

How much weight does the staff place on 1) the fact they want similar qbs in the qb room, 2) that they want an upgrade/replacement/succession plan for Heinicke, and 3) the importance of the backup qb (considering how many qbs have been forced into action for this team)?

 

And of course, if they did draft Ridder and he worked out (ie showed enough promise in his first year or two to hand the reins to him), they may be able to trade Wentz… and thereby freeing up cap space to address re-signings/extensions, etc.

 

[Est.1974]

We need a medium term option at back up QB. A good one, and a cheap one. They aren’t easy to find in free agency. 
 

I would be fine with Ridder in the late first, second round. He would be #2 in 2023. TH gone. Works for me if the feel Ridder has the potential to have a comparable skill set to Wentz / skill set that we want.

[Chump Bailey]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I want to understand this.

 

What trade scenario do you think would net us a pick that would justify Ridder over another prospect. I would assume at the latest he will go early round 2.

 

I am not trying to poo poo this idea, though I wouldn't do it and don't see a reason... I am open that perhaps there is a scenario I'm not thinking of.

 

To be straight forward, I think our team has much larger holes than backup QB and if we thought Ridder was the next franchise guy I think we may have an opportunity at a better player next year in the first and the second round.

 

I just think Ridder or Howell if available would be a nice option for us to consider assuming we find a trade down partner. I don't think it's a bad idea personally but understand those who do not want to consider it or think it's not worth doing so. It depends on who else is there certainly and your opinion of them. It does for me too. This is more just a personal feeling about Ridder more than anything. I think he could be very good and I would personally look for a chance to snag him. This a deep class in a lot of our need areas too. I think there is tremendous parity with a few outliers scattered about.