2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

22 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah plenty of really good options. It’s how you address those with only having picks #11 #47 and #113 before the 6th round.

Lloyd, Watson, Cross

Olave, Muma, Strong RB

Hamilton, Harris, Melton

 

I'd say our biggest need is the LBer. After that it's another offensive weapon. I can't imagine Ron has forgotten about Gibbys fumbles and benching him twice, so I think RB is the dark horse position we'll address. 

 

So maybe 

LBer

Offensive Weapon 

.

.

DB, OL.

 

I guess it depends on draft position. Who's there? Trade back? Who's available in FA? I'm sure we've reached out to our former players that we'd like back, as well as FAs and maybe said we're waiting on the draft.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

What is Jameson Williams return looking like? He’s probably the best WR in the class. I’ve seen him gone before 11 in several mocks. I know we want instant impact, but him and Olave are two guys I’d be thrilled with at 11 or in a slight trade down. Jameson has to be a Chiefs target given what he can bring that they lost in Hill. If Williams isn’t back until mid season, he’d still be a great long term pick 

I would think a team with multiple first rounders can afford to use one on Williams. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not really married to Chenal.  I am intrigued by some other 2nd-3rd round LB types, too.  But he's certainly on the table for me. Chenal I think is oddly going below the radar some as Kiper-McShay talked about in his last podcast.

 

I am the one who talked about the concerns about coverage.  But it was more from the framework of its mystery to me because they didn't really use him much in coverage in the games I watched and when they did while he seemed to follow his assignments well he looked a bit stiff as to how he backpeddled.

 

I said at the time I am really curiouis about his combine because for a dude that size it looked like he could move.  And wow, what a combine.  I haven't watched Muma yet, i've seen some scouts in some stuff I read question his coverage ability by the way but I'll make up my own mind about that.

 

Back to Chenal, I do value pass rush as a weapon for linebackers and clearly it does pertain to the passing game, this dude of all the LBs I've watched so far is the most fun pass rusher among the LBs he just blows up O lineman up the A gap at times.  He comes off the edge sometimes too.  But the physicality of how he deals with O lineman is fun especially in contrast to our LBs.

 

Chenal has the best PFF pass rushing grade among the LBs.  Dean is #2. 

 

He made Feldman's athletic freak list.  So yeah old school in the context of he's a big size LB who majors in run stopping.  But new school in that he's not one of these slow plodder but physical types, he's an athletic freak with more speed than guys we love like Llloyd and probably Dean, too.  As for coverage, i don't know.  He certainly has the athleticism for it.  I'll trust teams to figure that out, I don't know.

 

But for a dude that is 250 pounds plus with an almost perfect RAS.  And supposedly he is not just fast and explosive but might be one of the stronggest players in the league.   And I'd add the 8 sacks and 92 PFF pass rush grade -- I don't blame Kiper-McShay referencing Chenal as a LB they'd consider in the 2nd from our standpoint.  But I definitely like Lloyd and Dean better and by a clear peg. 

 

 

 

Seems like he could have the most "parsonsesque" impact for us. Not that that's what we need though.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I'd say our biggest need is the LBer. After that it's another offensive weapon. I can't imagine Ron has forgotten about Gibbys fumbles and benching him twice, so I think RB is the dark horse position we'll address. 

Yep RB as well. I’m not convinced we are set at TE either. Apparently we did make an enquiry on Hooper. So many ways we could go. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Seems like he could have the most "parsonsesque" impact for us. Not that that's what we need though.

 

They are very different in some ways but there is a similarity as to bringing pass rush.  Parsons IMO is more of a slippery style pass rusher, with freakish speed with great bend and quickness.   Chenal is more about power even though he's fast for his size.  I'd definitely take Parsons over Chenal including as a pass rusher.

 

But I do find Chenal as an intriguing 2nd-3rd round type LB.  He has PFF's highest run stopping grade and he looks that part, too IMO.  Really good recognition skills. And forget just shedding blocks, this dude blows up some blockers.  And on some of his blitzes when the offense sees him coming, they dedicate two blockers on him.  You don't see that type of thing often.

 

I do see his coverage as a wildcard.  He certainly has the athleticism for it and comes off to me the smarts, too.   But I don't know.  But that's the reason why justifiably he's not talked about as a first rounder.   I recall you liked Nick Bolton.  He's IMO at a minimum in Bolton's kind of brand as for having some of that old school label as to his style of play albeit Bolton was a below average athlete (yet he played well as a rookie) whereas Chenal is a freak. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Feels like WR is heavily on the cards. Not sure how we move out of #11 and get the player we want. I think Philly ‘risk’ one of their firsts on Williams and give him time to rehab. GB definitely go receiver at #22 to keep AR happy. 
 

I do also think we would like to take a QB day 2, I reckon they would like Strong as the medium term back up to Wentz. And you never know, Hamilton may drop to #11. And I really like Penning but we don’t necessarily ‘need’ a tackle. 

 

The beat reporters have consistently said that the team is higher on their WRs than the fans are.  I don't think WR is at all likely in the first.  The value for the position isn't there at 11.  And I think the only way they take it at 47 is if there is a strong value selection on the board.

 

Rookie QBs make bad back ups, and no one available on Day 2 would be able to beat out Heinicke for the job.  I think it'd be a really bad sign if they picked a day 2 QB,  because it would signal that they aren't actually as confident in Wentz as they claim.

 

Penning isn't in the top 25 for me.  His highlight video of pancakes is fun and he is a great athlete, but his film is pretty rough.  Much rougher than Cosmi's was.  He got his ass whipped in the first couple practices of the SB too, and someone in here suggested that he takes a while to get his motor going.  I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to upgrade/displace any of our current starters as a rookie.  Charles Cross could win the RG job as a rookie and take over LT in time, but I'm not sure about Penning.  If he were there at 47, I'd be interested, but not in the first round.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The beat reporters have consistently said that the team is higher on their WRs than the fans are.  I don't think WR is at all likely in the first. 

 

This is true.  They think Dyami can evolve next season and are jazzed about Curtis Samuel.

 

I am not sure I agree with their feeling about the WR corp but its hard to miss different reporters saying they hear the FO is higher on this WR corp than people outside the building are,

 

The one wildcard on that though is now that they've gambled on Wentz are they going to double up on making him look good?  I wonder if they are stunned by basically the backlash the took from that deal.  All the other QB deals they've made over the years were mostly embraced by the media.  On this move, they were widely panned.  And its not hard for me to miss that Rivera is aware of the media's take on the team.  Normally, I think teams just shrug this stuff off but considering the rebranding going on and this team being almost dead last in attendance whether its a variable this time?  Don't know.  But its not hard to pick up they don't see the WR as their code red spot. 

 

the two spots that I keep hearing consistently is LB and RB. LB I get the impression will come early.  RB I got no idea.

 

TE is sneaking up a little.  Seals-Jones, a depth player signed elsewhere.  We got Thomas coming off an ACL.  And we got the 2nd most dependant (after Lamar Jackson) Qb in the league on TE play.  If you look at Wentz's accuracy sweet spots it almost perfectly coincides with TE play. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I like Chenal, but this chart is absurd.  In what world do Chad Muma and Devin Lloyd have low level production?  Especially compared to Quay Walker, Brian Asamoah, Jack Sanborn, and Channing Tindall.  And in what world is Christian Harris a low level athlete?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I like Chenal, but this chart is absurd.  In what world do Chad Muma and Devin Lloyd have low level production?  Especially compared to Quay Walker, Brian Asamoah, Jack Sanborn, and Channing Tindall.  And in what world is Christian Harris a low level athlete?

 

lol, i didn't even bother to look at the others.  But I agree. 

 

Also, a lot of great RAs scores too in this group save Sanborn among the ones you mention here. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The beat reporters have consistently said that the team is higher on their WRs than the fans are.  I don't think WR is at all likely in the first.  The value for the position isn't there at 11.  And I think the only way they take it at 47 is if there is a strong value selection on the board.

 

Rookie QBs make bad back ups, and no one available on Day 2 would be able to beat out Heinicke for the job.  I think it'd be a really bad sign if they picked a day 2 QB,  because it would signal that they aren't actually as confident in Wentz as they claim.

 

Penning isn't in the top 25 for me.  His highlight video of pancakes is fun and he is a great athlete, but his film is pretty rough.  Much rougher than Cosmi's was.  He got his ass whipped in the first couple practices of the SB too, and someone in here suggested that he takes a while to get his motor going.  I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to upgrade/displace any of our current starters as a rookie.  Charles Cross could win the RG job as a rookie and take over LT in time, but I'm not sure about Penning.  If he were there at 47, I'd be interested, but not in the first round.

I would hope that by later in the season a couple of the day 2 QB's could push TH. Just hate the thought of a day 3 guy and Wentz goes down for a while. Last year sucked

 

Penning is an absolute monster. He is a bruiser and has good feet but I have seen him look stiff against quick guys...especially if they are shorter or can really lower themselves. It's like Pennings height is a disadvantage. Your Cosmi comment is a stronger negative than I expected, you must have seen some real inconsistencies. 

 

 

[mhd24]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The beat reporters have consistently said that the team is higher on their WRs than the fans are.  I don't think WR is at all likely in the first.  The value for the position isn't there at 11.  And I think the only way they take it at 47 is if there is a strong value selection on the board.

 

Rookie QBs make bad back ups, and no one available on Day 2 would be able to beat out Heinicke for the job.  I think it'd be a really bad sign if they picked a day 2 QB,  because it would signal that they aren't actually as confident in Wentz as they claim.

 

Penning isn't in the top 25 for me.  His highlight video of pancakes is fun and he is a great athlete, but his film is pretty rough.  Much rougher than Cosmi's was.  He got his ass whipped in the first couple practices of the SB too, and someone in here suggested that he takes a while to get his motor going.  I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to upgrade/displace any of our current starters as a rookie.  Charles Cross could win the RG job as a rookie and take over LT in time, but I'm not sure about Penning.  If he were there at 47, I'd be interested, but not in the first round.

 

I think he goes to LAC at 17 personally.  They have a GAPING hole at RT (lost the Raiders game because of it).  You may be right though regarding him vs. Cosmi.

[Est.1974]

18 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The beat reporters have consistently said that the team is higher on their WRs than the fans are.  I don't think WR is at all likely in the first.  The value for the position isn't there at 11.  And I think the only way they take it at 47 is if there is a strong value selection on the board.

 

Rookie QBs make bad back ups, and no one available on Day 2 would be able to beat out Heinicke for the job.  I think it'd be a really bad sign if they picked a day 2 QB,  because it would signal that they aren't actually as confident in Wentz as they claim.

 

Penning isn't in the top 25 for me.  His highlight video of pancakes is fun and he is a great athlete, but his film is pretty rough.  Much rougher than Cosmi's was.  He got his ass whipped in the first couple practices of the SB too, and someone in here suggested that he takes a while to get his motor going.  I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to upgrade/displace any of our current starters as a rookie.  Charles Cross could win the RG job as a rookie and take over LT in time, but I'm not sure about Penning.  If he were there at 47, I'd be interested, but not in the first round.

Personally agree on WR, I don’t want one at #11 for those very reasons

 

My take in QB is that TH is primary back up in 2022 but will be gone thereafter. They may take one this year to be #3 with a view to being primary backup in 2023. We don’t seem to have the luxury of picks for that in my opinion though.

 

I could also live with Penning round 2. I think our OL survives 2022 but I’m not sure what holder you get from potentially Lucas, Leno, Norwell and Schweitzer in 2023. Again though, may be a luxury pick in 2022 due to a current shortage of ammo.

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

TE is sneaking up a little.  Seals-Jones, a depth player signed elsewhere.  We got Thomas coming off an ACL.  And we got the 2nd most dependant (after Lamar Jackson) Qb in the league on TE play.  If you look at Wentz's accuracy sweet spots it almost perfectly coincides with TE play. 

We definitely need a TE. If we enquired over a Hooper, then we’ll be drafting one or looking for a later cut from another team.

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

the two spots that I keep hearing consistently is LB and RB. LB I get the impression will come early.  RB I got no idea.

 

TE is sneaking up a little.  Seals-Jones, a depth player signed elsewhere.  We got Thomas coming off an ACL.  And we got the 2nd most dependant (after Lamar Jackson) Qb in the league on TE play.  If you look at Wentz's accuracy sweet spots it almost perfectly coincides with TE play. 

TE is sneaking up. As you have mentioned, the class isn't great but it's strength is the mid rounds. Do they bring in another young guy? They already have a very young TE group other than Thomas. This is why RSJ was one of the few FA's I really wanted back.

 

Due to the lack of draft picks, I could still see RB handled through FA although there are some nice draft options. I am certain there will be more made available through cuts later. 

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I would hope that by later in the season a couple of the day 2 QB's could push TH. Just hate the thought of a day 3 guy and Wentz goes down for a while. Last year sucked

 

Penning is an absolute monster. He is a bruiser and has good feet but I have seen him look stiff against quick guys...especially if they are shorter or can really lower themselves. It's like Pennings height is a disadvantage. Your Cosmi comment is a stronger negative than I expected, you must have seen some real inconsistencies.

 

He's just rough and TBH, I'm not really sure what makes him a first round pick and Cosmi and Spencer Brown a second and third round pick respectively.  I guess last year's OT class was just twice as good.  Spencer Brown already looks like a good Pro though, so that at least bodes well for Penning.  But the value of getting him at 93rd overall or Cosmi at 51 >>> getting Penning in the 20s.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

He's just rough and TBH, I'm not really sure what makes him a first round pick and Cosmi and Spencer Brown a second and third round pick respectively.  I guess last year's OT class was just twice as good.  Spencer Brown already looks like a good Pro though, so that at least bodes well for Penning.  But the value of getting him at 93rd overall or Cosmi at 51 >>> getting Penning in the 20s.

You are correct, last year was a really strong OT class and thrilled we participated! Cosmi was last years no brainer selection IMO.  

[Koolblue13]

I could definitely see another TE and I think I've got to be the highest on Bates here, but the idea of running more TE sets, when they both can run and block, is really exciting, especially when we have 3 field stretching WRs. 

 

The more I think about it, RB has got to be a huge priority. McKissic is great to have back, but he's a gadget guy and you really can't excuse Gibsons fumbles last year. Tiki Barber who I think is a good comparison to Gibson was a fumble machine too, until they drafted the thunder to his lightning. I forget his name. But if we could add a RB like that or even just a complete back, another TE to pair with Bates, then this offense could really be explosive with Wentz.

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I could also live with Penning round 2. I think our OL survives 2022 but I’m not sure what holder you get from potentially Lucas, Leno, Norwell and Schweitzer in 2023. Again though, may be a luxury pick in 2022 due to a current shortage of ammo.

 

I'm not sure either, but OL has consistently proven to be a position where guys play at a high level in their 30s.  I could see Leno being a long term starter here.  I'm looking at his career AV scores, and he is remarkably consistent.  Since he took over as a starter in his second year, his season AV totals are 7, 7, 6, 9, 6, 8, 8.  That is solidly in "good starter" territory, and the lack of "valleys" in his career totals means he stays healthy and doesn't take seasons off when his team is hopeless.  Combine that with the fact he's a culture leader in the locker room and a long term extension for him probably wouldn't break the bank and he feels like a credible long term option.  That said, Carson Wentz is not an easy QB to block for.  He is very chaotic in the pocket and many OLs might struggle to hold their blocks for him and predict where they need to be keeping space open for him.  We're going to need to use this season as a trial year to figure out which of our OLs can handle blocking him.

 

We need some more young talent in the pipeline.  I'm not sure what to make of Ismael and Charles any more, but it feels dicey hinging our long term health at an absolutely critical 5 man position group on them.  One more good prospect in the pipeline would be big.  Day 2 or early on Day 4 feels like a decent range for one.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

TE is sneaking up. As you have mentioned, the class isn't great but it's strength is the mid rounds. Do they bring in another young guy? They already have a very young TE group other than Thomas. This is why RSJ was one of the few FA's I really wanted back.

 

Due to the lack of draft picks, I could still see RB handled through FA although there are some nice draft options. I am certain there will be more made available through cuts later. 

 

Judging by Keim and to an extent Standig they like some options for RB in this draft.

 

As far as TE, Keim has started mentioning it.  Not sure what the vehicle is.  Not a lot left in FA at that spot.  It is a good draft IMO for depth at TE.

 

The thing is they only have 3 picks in the first 5 rounds.  So i don't see how they are addressing so many needs in the draft unless the game plan is to trade down.

 

As for FA seems like their game plan is to slow play things to get bargains and hold back cap space to pounce on releases post draft.  Ala their Leno signing last year. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Id be sad if WR is not a position they’re considering at all. We are sooo lacking in weapons. 

[DWinzit]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The thing is they only have 3 picks in the first 5 rounds.  So i don't see how they are addressing so many needs in the draft unless the game plan is to trade down.

 

As for FA seems like their game plan is to slow play things to get bargains and hold back cap space to pounce on releases post draft.  Ala their Leno signing last year. 

This is why I figure they will be praying for a good trade down offer at 11...way too many needs again.

The thing with waiting until post draft is you are entering the unknown with available players/positions. You find good deals but can't go into it identifying specific position of need especially if a starter

[mhd24]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I could definitely see another TE and I think I've got to be the highest on Bates here, but the idea of running more TE sets, when they both can run and block, is really exciting, especially when we have 3 field stretching WRs. 

 

The more I think about it, RB has got to be a huge priority. McKissic is great to have back, but he's a gadget guy and you really can't excuse Gibsons fumbles last year. Tiki Barber who I think is a good comparison to Gibson was a fumble machine too, until they drafted the thunder to his lightning. I forget his name. But if we could add a RB like that or even just a complete back, another TE to pair with Bates, then this offense could really be explosive with Wentz.

 

 

RB is a drastic need.  Whenever Gibson was out last year, the offense stunk even more.  Patterson is a JAG and JD can't handle more than carries in a game.  Getting another bell-cow RB is a priority.  

Just now, DWinzit said:

This is why I figure they will be praying for a good trade down offer at 11...way too many needs again.

The thing with waiting until post draft is you are entering the unknown with available players/positions. You find good deals but can't go into it identifying specific position of need especially if a starter

 

I think if Linderbaum is there at 11, Baltimore will be dialing up to trade up to ensure they get him.  They have 2 3rds and 3 4ths.  They can afford to move up to get Linderbaum.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

RB is a drastic need.  Whenever Gibson was out last year, the offense stunk even more.  Patterson is a JAG and JD can't handle more than carries in a game.  Getting another bell-cow RB is a priority.  

 

I think if Linderbaum is there at 11, Baltimore will be dialing up to trade up to ensure they get him.  They have 2 3rds and 3 4ths.  They can afford to move up to get Linderbaum.

Fully agree on RB. While there are a bunch of good options via the draft, there may be good options in FA as well.

Without a Baltimore type trade back form 11, there are just too many holes to be handled through draft alone. Picking up some of those Baltimore picks would be sweet while only moving back a few slots in the 1st

[lavar1156]

Penn State pro day today. WR Jahan Dotson could be a target for us in the 2nd round. I also think safety Jaquan Brisker is a stud. 

 

[Warhead36]

Baltimore would be a good trade partner, especially because we can sell them on the idea of Minnesota or Houston taking Linderbaum right before them. Maybe try to get a bidding war going between them. Whoever we want at 11 we can probably still get at 14 anyway but it would be great to recoup a 3rd rounder.

[KDawg]

59 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

RB is a drastic need.  Whenever Gibson was out last year, the offense stunk even more.  Patterson is a JAG and JD can't handle more than carries in a game.  Getting another bell-cow RB is a priority.  

 

I think if Linderbaum is there at 11, Baltimore will be dialing up to trade up to ensure they get him.  They have 2 3rds and 3 4ths.  They can afford to move up to get Linderbaum.

 

So... what would you want in return for a trade back? Because I don't understand why we'd want to trade back from 11 to get... someone not as good.

 

What compensation?