2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah we've had this discussion before regarding Rivera and Cam and running QBs and you make fair points.

 

One thing that does make me question it though is how Turner recently was talking about what he looks for in a QB and while he definitely said that athleticism and the ability to extend plays is very important nowadays, he also seemed to stress that he wants a QB who can beat you with his arm first, and then run if need be.

 

So if Ron is ok with a running QB but Turner isn't all that into it, would Ron necessarily force that on him or would he allow Turner to make that call?

 

I saw those comments, I don't think it rules Willis out.   When Rivera has talked about (recall him doing it twice) mobile QBs who can run, he's practically gushed about it, talked up how hard those QBs to defend.

 

I don't think any offensive coordinator would say that they care primarily whether a QB can run, and throwing the ball is the next most important thing.    But I do genuinely believe that everything equal Rivera would love to have a QB who could run like Cam.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw those comments, I don't think it rules Willis out.   When Rivera has talked about (recall him doing it twice) mobile QBs who can run, he's practically gushed about it, talked up how hard those QBs to defend.

 

I don't think any offensive coordinator would say that they care primarily whether a QB can run, and throwing the ball is the next most important thing.    But I do genuinely believe that everything equal Rivera would love to have a QB who could run like Cam.

 

 

 

Yeah I do get that Ron really seems to be ok with it. But I'm wondering what would happen if there was a disagreement from Turner. Not necessarily "No, I won't coach this guy" or something, but more "This is not the guy I'd prefer because I don't think he's the right fit for what I'm trying to do offensively. I want a guy who is a more polished passer and not primarily a runner." Would Ron overrule him?

 

I agree that Turner's comments don't necessarily rule Willis out, but he definitely emphasized passing first, with the athleticism to extend plays and move being really great as well. To me that would put Willis a bit further down the list, unless Turner and Ron truly believe that they can turn Willis from a running QB into a passing QB who can move.

Edited January 11, 2022 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I do get that Ron really seems to be ok with it. But I'm wondering what would happen if there was a disagreement from Turner. Not necessarily "No, I won't coach this guy" or something, but more "This is not the guy I'd prefer because I don't think he's the right fit for what I'm trying to do offensively. I want a guy who is a more polished passer and not primarily a runner." Would Ron overrule him?

 

I agree that Turner's comments don't necessarily rule Willis out, but he definitely emphasized passing first, with the athleticism to extend plays and move being really great as well. To me that would put Willis a bit further down the list, unless Turner and Ron truly believe that they can turn Willis from a running QB into a passing QB who can move.

 

For me the passing first seemed like a boiler plate line that any offensive coordinator would use.  Who wouldn't say passing is the most important criteria when talking about a QB?

 

I've posted before the articles relating to Norv Turner and by extension Scott working the Carolina offense around Cam's strengths.

 

You got me if Willis is their guy.  My gut is its Corral or Howell or Pickett.  The only point I am hung on is I doubt this specific coaching regime of all regimes would feel lost or dislike the idea of dealing with a running QB considering Ron and his regime was one of the pioneers working in the RO-RPOs in an offense before Kyle and company did it. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Ball Security]

This Harris guy is legit.

[KillBill26]

Nakobe Dean is the heart and soul of the Georgia d.  Great college lb, but he did play behind an elite d line.  He is getting some first round love from the pundits, looking like a WLB in a 4-3 as his best fit, comparison to Patrick queen via draft network.   Love his demeanor, all business.  Would love to have him behind our d line, but is he worth the #11 pick?  Don't think him being there for our 2nd rounder is gonna happen.   It seems like a perfect fit for us, considering jamins ideal position is MLB.  But the thought of reaching for a LB for the second year in a row is demoralizing.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/nakobe-dean/1RTJrHMMzI

[Stone Cold]

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Nakobe Dean is the heart and soul of the Georgia d.  Great college lb, but he did play behind an elite d line.  He is getting some first round love from the pundits, looking like a WLB in a 4-3 as his best fit, comparison to Patrick queen via draft network.   Love his demeanor, all business.  Would love to have him behind our d line, but is he worth the #11 pick?  Don't think him being there for our 2nd rounder is gonna happen.   It seems like a perfect fit for us, considering jamins ideal position is MLB.  But the thought of reaching for a LB for the second year in a row is demoralizing.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/nakobe-dean/1RTJrHMMzI

I think we can get him and a qb with our pick in the 2d.  Proposed that thought a few days ago and immediately got shot down.  I think we can get our qb in the 2d of this draft.  Dean is a game changer right now

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

37 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Nakobe Dean is the heart and soul of the Georgia d.  Great college lb, but he did play behind an elite d line.  He is getting some first round love from the pundits, looking like a WLB in a 4-3 as his best fit, comparison to Patrick queen via draft network.   Love his demeanor, all business.  Would love to have him behind our d line, but is he worth the #11 pick?  Don't think him being there for our 2nd rounder is gonna happen.   It seems like a perfect fit for us, considering jamins ideal position is MLB.  But the thought of reaching for a LB for the second year in a row is demoralizing.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/nakobe-dean/1RTJrHMMzI

 

Don't the coaches view Jamin Davis best as a OLB along with Holcomb?  If people don't think Dean can play Mike at the next level, then where are we?

[KillBill26]

18 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Don't the coaches view Jamin Davis best as a OLB along with Holcomb?  If people don't think Dean can play Mike at the next level, then where are we?

I thought the long term plan was for jamin at MLB, but I could be wrong.  

 

WLB - Dean

MLB - Davis

SLB - Holcomb

 

If they reach their potential, that'd be a solid group.   Behind a special d line.  Dean could be a huge difference maker for our lineup.

 

 

[method man]

11 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I thought the long term plan was for jamin at MLB, but I could be wrong.  

 

WLB - Dean

MLB - Davis

SLB - Holcomb

 

If they reach their potential, that'd be a solid group.   Behind a special d line.  Dean could be a huge difference maker for our lineup.

 

 

Keim has reported they have started to give up on the idea that Davis is a MLB. They are going to keep him and Holcomb outside and find a true mike

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, method man said:

Keim has reported they have started to give up on the idea that Davis is a MLB. They are going to keep him and Holcomb outside and find a true mike

Exactly! And possibly the teams second biggest need. 

I take it his size is why they were saying his play would not translate to MLB?

 

Speaking of LB prospects in last nights game, how did Christian Harris?

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Exactly! And possibly the teams second biggest need. 

I take it his size is why they were saying his play would not translate to MLB?

 

Speaking of LB prospects in last nights game, how did Christian Harris?

 

Davis is better with less responsibilities. Read and react. He plays within the scheme but he's not great at taking on blocks from interior OL. He's better off-ball and off the edge.

[Thinking Skins]

I really like Ridder and as things play out (Carr going to the playoffs, us unlikely to get Watson, Rodgers getting number 1, us winning and getting 10th pick, etc), I'm liking him as my top pick. I know I liked Mond last year but his completion percentage was low and I didn't like that and in his limited time as a rookie he looked to have placement issues. I don't like Ridder's yards per attempt and his interception percentage is low but much higher than I'd like. I wouldn't want him in the first though but i can see a situation where Pickett (who I'm not in love with), Corral and Howell are all gone in the top 10 and so we are left wondering do we draft Willis at 11 or wait and draft Ridder. 

 

Whats interesting to me is that Corral, Willis and Howell are all 6'1. Then there's Pickett, Strong and Ridder who are 6'3, 6'4 and 6'4. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, method man said:

Keim has reported they have started to give up on the idea that Davis is a MLB. They are going to keep him and Holcomb outside and find a true mike

 

I'd add that considering Keim has beat that bush now like 5 different times, if I recall Sam Fortier, Standig also mentioned it -- seems like there is a billboard out practically that they deem the most important spot to fix on defense is MIKE LB.  Feels like they'd prefer a veteran -- London Fletcher type who is a natural at calling the defense albeit not sure if that guy becomes available.  Maybe Wagner if we are lucky. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I really like Ridder and as things play out (Carr going to the playoffs, us unlikely to get Watson, Rodgers getting number 1, us winning and getting 10th pick, etc), I'm liking him as my top pick. I know I liked Mond last year but his completion percentage was low and I didn't like that and in his limited time as a rookie he looked to have placement issues. I don't like Ridder's yards per attempt and his interception percentage is low but much higher than I'd like. I wouldn't want him in the first though but i can see a situation where Pickett (who I'm not in love with), Corral and Howell are all gone in the top 10 and so we are left wondering do we draft Willis at 11 or wait and draft Ridder. 

 

Whats interesting to me is that Corral, Willis and Howell are all 6'1. Then there's Pickett, Strong and Ridder who are 6'3, 6'4 and 6'4. 

 

If it's Willis or Ridder I'm drafting Willis and not hesitating.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I really like Ridder and as things play out (Carr going to the playoffs, us unlikely to get Watson, Rodgers getting number 1, us winning and getting 10th pick, etc), I'm liking him as my top pick. I know I liked Mond last year but his completion percentage was low and I didn't like that and in his limited time as a rookie he looked to have placement issues. I don't like Ridder's yards per attempt and his interception percentage is low but much higher than I'd like. I wouldn't want him in the first though but i can see a situation where Pickett (who I'm not in love with), Corral and Howell are all gone in the top 10 and so we are left wondering do we draft Willis at 11 or wait and draft Ridder. 

 

Whats interesting to me is that Corral, Willis and Howell are all 6'1. Then there's Pickett, Strong and Ridder who are 6'3, 6'4 and 6'4. 

 

I am hoping Ridder among others shine at the Senior Bowl.  Of the 6 top guys to me he has the most red flags.

 

He's the only guy in this mix who I've watched who showed that in my mind the Rosen and Darnold bust triats as for really bad decision making -- so that makes me wonder about his vision.   His inconsistent accuracy with some simple throws like quick out routes reminds me some of Haskins.   But i like his moxie and obviously mobility much more so than Rosen and Darnold. 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If it's Willis or Ridder I'm drafting Willis and not hesitating.

 

Yeah me too.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I really like Ridder

Thats a shame. I liked him too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

My mind might change post Senior Bowl about Ridder.  Right now, i see Ridder as a poor man's Jalen Hurst.   I think he has a better arm than Hurst but I'd trust Hurst's decision making a little more.  Maybe Drew Lock?  Faster than Lock.  Lock with the stronger arm.

 

I think if you give Ridder a killer supporting cast (more than the typical QB in this group) he might shine.  If the roster has some holes, I can see him struggle more than most.

[Thinking Skins]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My mind might change post Senior Bowl about Ridder.  Right now, i see Ridder as a poor man's Jalen Hurst.   I think he has a better arm than Hurst but I'd trust Hurst's decision making a little more.  Maybe Drew Lock?  Faster than Lock.  Lock with the stronger arm.

 

I think if you give Ridder a killer supporting cast (more than the typical QB in this group) he might shine.  If the roster has some holes, I can see him struggle more than most.

This is what I see in my limited view of him. I'm not saying that Hurst is a franchise guy but he just led the Eagles to the playoffs. I don't see Darnold or Rosen in him mainly because of his mobility. From Rosen in particular, I can see issues with not just his decisions but his ball placement. His completion percentage number was 60 in college compare that to 65 for Darnold, 65 for Hurts and 62 for Ridder. Hurts also had a higher YPA and a lower interception percentage than Ridder (less TDs as well) and Hurts seems like a better runner. All that said I see the potential of Hurts when I look at Ridder. 

 

Not saying this is an accurate predictor of success, but the combination of playing time (say 600 attempts), completion percentage (say above 60), and YPC (say above 4 yards) you see a lot of people with those type of college numbers who come into the league and have success. 

 

Another comparable to Ridder is Dak Prescott. Their numbers are eerily similar. Similar completion percentage, similar yards per attempt, simiilar rushing numbers. But thats a high ceiling that I don't want to get my hopes up for. Hurts is an OK qb that I think we can reach for. 

[clskinsfan]

25 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what I see in my limited view of him. I'm not saying that Hurst is a franchise guy but he just led the Eagles to the playoffs. I don't see Darnold or Rosen in him mainly because of his mobility. From Rosen in particular, I can see issues with not just his decisions but his ball placement. His completion percentage number was 60 in college compare that to 65 for Darnold, 65 for Hurts and 62 for Ridder. Hurts also had a higher YPA and a lower interception percentage than Ridder (less TDs as well) and Hurts seems like a better runner. All that said I see the potential of Hurts when I look at Ridder. 

 

Not saying this is an accurate predictor of success, but the combination of playing time (say 600 attempts), completion percentage (say above 60), and YPC (say above 4 yards) you see a lot of people with those type of college numbers who come into the league and have success. 

 

Another comparable to Ridder is Dak Prescott. Their numbers are eerily similar. Similar completion percentage, similar yards per attempt, simiilar rushing numbers. But thats a high ceiling that I don't want to get my hopes up for. Hurts is an OK qb that I think we can reach for. 

I actually like the Dak comp. Dak has a thicker body and threw the ball a little more than Ridder did. Ridder made more mistakes than Dak in college. But he also played more. I wouldnt hate Ridder in the 2/3rd round. But I want no part of him in the 1st.

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I actually like the Dak comp. Dak has a thicker body and threw the ball a little more than Ridder did. Ridder made more mistakes than Dak in college. But he also played more. I wouldnt hate Ridder in the 2/3rd round. But I want no part of him in the 1st.

I'm kinda in this park but if we can trade down from 11 to say the 20s I would say go for it. Especially if we see Hurts or Dak in him. Those are the top two QBs in our division and both led their teams to the playoffs. Both have flaws in their game but with a running game and a defense (what i always say) they look nice, especially Dak. I say why not us. And if thats his potential why not try to get him in the first. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

If it's Willis or Ridder I'm drafting Willis and not hesitating.

Definitely. If you are going to pick a risky player take the one with the most upside. 

[Chump Bailey]

Washington LB Edefuan Ulofoshio may make for a nice consolation prize if we miss out on the top tier prospects. 

[Thinking Skins]

31 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Definitely. If you are going to pick a risky player take the one with the most upside. 

Possibly, but if you think there are fundamental flaws in him that take you away or something like his lack of experience that you don't want to deal with, I understand.

 

I was all in the Haskins bandwagon because I thought that, although he was before Mac Jones, I saw a lot of the potential that people saw in Jones in Haskins. Given, @Skinsinparadise put me on to certain fundamental flaws in his game, but I was confident in his upside and that he could grow out of it and that he had the highest upside Between Daniel Jones, Haskins and Lock. But he doesn't have the work ethic to overcome that rawness. 

 

I value the experience in Ridder. That said though, Mond had similar experience and the rumors are that he's lost in Minnesota, not sure if there is more to that though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what I see in my limited view of him. I'm not saying that Hurst is a franchise guy but he just led the Eagles to the playoffs.

 

Sure, I don't hate Hurts at all, he's decent. Don't love Hurst but I'd take him over what we got.   But I said I saw him as a poor man's version of Hurst for a reason.  If I thought he was just as good I'd be more intrigued. 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't see Darnold or Rosen in him mainly because of his mobility. From Rosen in particular, I can see issues with not just his decisions but his ball placement. His completion percentage number was 60 in college compare that to 65 for Darnold, 65 for Hurts and 62 for Ridder. Hurts also had a higher YPA and a lower interception percentage than Ridder (less TDs as well) and Hurts seems like a better runner. All that said I see the potential of Hurts when I look at Ridder. 

 

 

I've learned over time that casually watching a QB while watching a game isn't enough.  Highlights are worthless.  And stats can be misleading.   That's why I keep egging you on to watch these guys more. 😀. And you like talking QBs so I bet you'd enjoy it.   But yeah there is nothing that beats just watching 5 full games and fixating on the QB.  Ignore stats.  Ignore highlights. 

 

For example when watching Rosen and Darnold, neither had a ton of picks.  Darnold had his share but nothing crazy.   Their stats were good enough.  Their highlights were tantalizing. 

 

Gunslingers though can have more picks just based on how they play.  Also WCO types might not throw a ton of picks because of the nature of the scheme.  So watching Rosen and Darnold I was stunned how many throws they had that made me think what the heck could they be thinking?  They didn't all result in picks but they came off really dumb.  Too many throws like that. 

 

In the NFL when you are playing top defenses you can't get away with those same throws as often without getting burned. The kicker was thier decision making struggles indeed followed them to the NFL (granted small sample with Rosen at the time) -- and that's why I was so opposed to trading for either one.

 

When watching Haskins in training camp, its not that his quick out throws had a ton of incompletions, it was that WRs had to turn back to catch the ball, he didn't throw the ball where the receiver was catching the balls in stride.

 

We've seen Heinicke's accuracy can look sketchy but judging him purely by completion rates, he's OK.  On and on.

 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Another comparable to Ridder is Dak Prescott. Their numbers are eerily similar. Similar completion percentage, similar yards per attempt, simiilar rushing numbers. But thats a high ceiling that I don't want to get my hopes up for. Hurts is an OK qb that I think we can reach for. 

 

I don't know if its a comparison.  Honestly, I never studied Dak's college tape.  But I just went back and read some of the draft geeks take on Dak's college game.   He was praised for having really good vision of the field at least by a couple of people.  I don't really see Ridder the same way -- I take bad decision making as often a signal for not having the best vision.   Dak really didn't throw picks from the jump in his NFL career -- showcasing vision and decision making.  Personally, i think vision and decision making might be Ridder's weakness. 

 

I get the analogy from the stand point that they both can run (Ridder a bit better) and both are leaders but otherwise I am not sure if the two are analogous. 

 

You mentioned liking Mond.  Ridder IMO is better.  But they both have the wild inconsistency thing in common.  

 

Ridder is tough for me to land on a hard opinion on because in some ways he screams like a dude who will struggle in the pros but on another hand I do think mobility can mask other weaknesses and I am big on intangibles and he certainly has that.  My only hard opinion on Ridder is that if we draft him, I am not going to chill and think we almost for sure got our guy -- it would have a very open ended type of vibe for me, more so than some of the other QBs in this draft.  I also wouldn't trash the pick like I did with Haskins.  I'd be somewhat neutral about it.   

 

But again my mind can change post Senior Bowl.    

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

So lets cut to the chase. Which Alabama DL are we going to draft at 11OA?

 

I know some preach never draft for need always take the best player but not me. The rest never magically falls into place for us taking the BPA approach.