2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

32 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Anyone can throw far. Its if you can get the tight window throw on the 15 yard out on the far sideline thats traveling 40 yards in the air before the CB picks it off. 

Does any of the QBs fit the antiquated Parcells checklist? 

 

• Be a three-year starter
• Be a senior in college
• Graduate from college
• Start 30 games
• Win 23 games
• Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
• Complete at least 60% of passes thrown

As a matter of fact…

 

Look two posts up.

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

This is our guy, in MY opinion.

 

 

I know this isn't aimed me since I am not one of those here who doesn't like Howell.

 

I am a Howell guy in the sense that I like him more than the typical mock drafter.  I just saw another mock draft this morning that had Howell in the 2nd.

 

I like his style of play.  I do prefer Corral a clear peg over Howell for reasons I've stated before.  Howell to me would be a nice consulation prize for me because he has a lot of the same traits that I dig about Corral.  But i can't be talked into him being QB1.  I don't always love Howell's peripheral vision whether its him dodging defenders in the pocket crashing from the edges or in open field as a runner.  IMO that's one of Corral's strengths.  Corral also comes off to me as someone who processes faster and plays faster.

 

But Howell has plenty going for him IMO.  Strong arm.  Throws a really good deep ball.  Corral, Howell and Strong all throw IMO really good deep balls.  He puts good touch on his throws.  Can amke the tough throws ala throw deep outs, speed outs, really well.   He's a really tough dude.  Can take a beating and keep coming.  If he's the pick at 11 , I am cool with it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know this isn't aimed me since I am not one of those here who doesn't like Howell.

 

I am a Howell guy in the sense that I like him more than the typical mock drafter.  I just saw another mock draft this morning that had Howell in the 2nd.

 

I like his style of play.  I do prefer Corral a clear peg over Howell for reasons I've stated before.  Howell to me would be a consulation prize for me because he has a lot of the same traits that I dig about Corral.  But i can't be talked into him being QB1.  I don't always love Howell's peripheral vision whether its him dodging defenders in the pocket crashign from the edges or in open field as a runner.  IMO that's one of Corral's strengths.  Corral comes off to me as someone who processes faster and plays faster.

 

But Howell has plenty going for him IMO.  Strong arm.  Throws a really good deep ball.  Corral, Howell and Strong all throw IMO really good deep balls.  He puts good touch on his throws.  Can throw deep outs, speed outs, really well.   He's a really tough dude.  Can take a beating and keep coming.  If he's the pick at 11 , I am cool with it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I think similarly about Corral. We leave the draft with him and I’m pretty excited. But I think he processes slower than Howell. Kid has a rocket on him, does go through reads it seems. Smart. Talented. Very fluid athlete. He’s a clear peg above Howell there. 
 

All in all you tell me we leave the draft with Howell or Corral in the 7-11 range and I am a happy guy.

[Chump Bailey]

I'm baffled as to anyone not liking Howell. Nobody knows for certain if a successful transition will occur because so many variables are in play, but not seeing the potential in Howell is a bit odd to me. I happen to think he is the most talented deep ball passer in this class. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I'm baffled as to anyone not liking Howell. Nobody knows for certain if a successful transition will occur because so many variables are in play, but not seeing the potential in Howell is a bit odd to me. I happen to think he is the most talented deep ball passer in this class. 

He has everything to like for a QB coming out of college. He’s not as amazing as others were as prospects. He doesn’t “wow” you in any one area. But he is a low risk high ceiling prospect that does a little of everything.

 

Trying to figure out why he’s not getting the respect I feel he deserves.

[The Sisko]

Absent some major flaw or a poor showing at the Senior Bowl and/or combine, I seriously doubt PIckett or Corral will be available at 11. Even in a down year for the position, a QB needy team will talk themselves into falling for a guy and trade up to get him. The good news is, I think one of the next tier of QBs will be available at 11, but from what I’ve seen of them so far, I don’t think the rest of them are worth it at that draft position. My dream draft would have us taking a stud player at another position of need, like LB or OL or trading down, getting our guy later and picking up some extra picks. If that happens, Howell, Ridder, or the guy I’m kind of digging at the moment, Strong, would be excellent value while being able to pick up another player(s) to fill out what is still a spotty roster even after two decent off seasons. If we somehow hit the jackpot and someone offered us a 1st next year for a trade down, I’d take the best QB we could get in the 2nd knowing we have the ammo next year to trade up to get a top tier guy if we end up taking Rosen 2.0 this year. I don’t see that trade down scenario happening, but you never know. 🤞🏽🤞🏽

[KDawg]

We may have to get above the Giants. We might have had to anyways, but I’d say it’s a lock now that Judge is fired.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yeah I think similarly about Corral. We leave the draft with him and I’m pretty excited. But I think he processes slower than Howell. Kid has a rocket on him, does go through reads it seems. Smart. Talented. Very fluid athlete. He’s a clear peg above Howell there. 
 

All in all you tell me we leave the draft with Howell or Corral in the 7-11 range and I am a happy guy.

 

Me too.  I'll pimp here a little for Corral. 😀  I know Corral's last impression is getting crushed in the pocket by Baylor.  But that's actually unusual for him. 

 

Ole Miss plays a high tempo, heavy RPO offensive.  The ball gets out of Corral's hands fast.  If anything to me he can be too frenetic and in turn dump the ball off too fast versus letting the play develop so he throws a lot of screens even though his accuracy is good when he goes long.     

 

Not that I needed to see this stat to make that observation. I made the observation first before I found this.  It's not a perfect stat but some cite pressure to sack conversions as a stat to cite pocket presence and or elusiveness in the pocket or whether a QB holds on to the ball too long.   Corral's numbers on that front are killer good.  13.8%.  Howell for example is at 30.5%.

 

Some cite Howell's O line was lacking and the adversity he faced.  And I agree with that.  But actually Corral had even less time to throw than Howell and Corral lost his playmakers and ended up playing a third of the season on a bum ankle.  Corral had one of the highest rates of WR drops, higher rate than Howell.  I am not playing down the adversity Howell had, he clearly had it but so did Corral. Like I said they are both tough SOBs.  

 

I wonder about both of their personalities a little but none are deal breakers to me because both are deemed leaders and hard workers. i want to digest that more though before the draft.  If you buy into their descriptions they'd be the odd couple if they lived together.  Howell supposedly a real quiet, unassuming, religious dude.  Corral on the other hand out going, boisterous, confident -- too confident, high strung? 

 

To your point though Corral isn't really in need of love -- he gets plenty of it.  Howell oddly not so much and it baffles me too.  His average depth of target, 11.4 yards, is tops in this class.  His accuracy is good on all three levels.  He's tough in the pocket.  Good character guy.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

This isn't an accurate portrayal of arm strength.  The question is can you throw a tight window ball?  Can you hit a 15 yard come backer on the sideline?  Can you be late on the read but have enough zip on the ball to still thread that closing needle?  Are timing routes possible or will everything just sail?

While not necessarily an accurate portrayal. It does give you the opportunity to see the amount of effort they are putting into a 60 plus yard throw. Look at Strongs throw. Completely effortless and ripped. The guy has a beautiful arm. 

 

And as far as Howell goes. A lot of what has happened to him had to do with the hype he got before the season started. He was being hyped as a Heismann candidate. And he played nowhere near that level. Now he had a pretty ****ty supporting cast. And his OL was bad. But he didnt really elevate the play of anyone else on that team. And maybe he knew he couldnt. So he took a lot of the game into his own hands and ran a lot. I think he has a very good arm. But his accuracy is suspect. Especially in the medium range. He does throw a beautiful deep ball as well. And I wouldnt lose it if they picked Howell at 11. I think he is a late first early second player. But if you have to take him at 11 because you love him than do it. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by clskinsfan

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Ball Security]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

How far does he fall? That’s a tough leap of faith to make when there are some good receivers in this draft. Maybe a team with multiple 1sts take that risk.

[Chump Bailey]

Perhaps Clemson WR Justyn Ross will be on our radar. He might had at a bargain too.

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I think the consensus here is just what you said. Ridder in the second is acceptable. He isn't a steal the show prospect and you aren't drafting him with the idea that there is a better than decent chance he turns into the guy. But there is some chance and he has enough flashes to bring him in and let him sit for a bit. 

 

He's DEFINITELY a long term developmental guy at this point. 

 

The issue I have with Ridder is getting him means we essentially sat on our hands in the offseason, didn't get a guy and then didn't draft one in the first. And then we still need to hope he falls to us. Same with Zappe.

 

Those guys are worst case scenarios. Not because they CAN'T pan out. But because if they do we got real lucky. 

Definitely, guys like Ridder and maybe Zappe have the potential to become good starters. Issue is they won't be ready in September, it won't be until late in the 2022 season or the 2023 season. We need a more competent QB to start in September along with a Ridder or Zappe. We might need that with any of the rookies but definitely would for these guys

Besides if you are going to plan to wait until the second for them, you are risking not getting them so you better have another (better than TH or Allen) vet already on the roster before the draft. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

Brian Robinson is my top mid round back right now. Spiller, Hall and Walker and then him. And I actually think his style meshes real well with Gibson and McKissick and Patterson's styles

[kingdaddy]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Brian Robinson is my top mid round back right now. Spiller, Hall and Walker and then him. And I actually think his style meshes real well with Gibson and McKissick and Patterson's styles

Would love to get a bigger, physical back to compliment Gibby and JD.....building the running game and defense would be my priority. Make every team we play feel our physicality regardless of who we play at QB. I LOVE how the 49ers and Titans play and both have limited QB's compared to the upper echelon of NFL QB's. We can build that kind of roster and figure out QB some way somehow. 

[skinny21]

20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Would love to get a bigger, physical back to compliment Gibby and JD.....building the running game and defense would be my priority. Make every team we play feel our physicality regardless of who we play at QB. I LOVE how the 49ers and Titans play and both have limited QB's compared to the upper echelon of NFL QB's. We can build that kind of roster and figure out QB some way somehow. 

Qb is my priority, but if we can take a step forward in the ground game and defense (which are both pretty good but can use pieces) for a rookie qb to lean on, that would be great for their development.

[method man]

5 hours ago, Ball Security said:

How far does he fall? That’s a tough leap of faith to make when there are some good receivers in this draft. Maybe a team with multiple 1sts take that risk.

He unfortunately will be an Eagle

[Panninho]

10 hours ago, Ball Security said:

How far does he fall? That’s a tough leap of faith to make when there are some good receivers in this draft. Maybe a team with multiple 1sts take that risk.

Maybe he is there for us in the 2nd? Would definitely go for it.

[KDawg]

10 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

While not necessarily an accurate portrayal. It does give you the opportunity to see the amount of effort they are putting into a 60 plus yard throw. Look at Strongs throw. Completely effortless and ripped. The guy has a beautiful arm. 

 

And as far as Howell goes. A lot of what has happened to him had to do with the hype he got before the season started. He was being hyped as a Heismann candidate. And he played nowhere near that level. Now he had a pretty ****ty supporting cast. And his OL was bad. But he didnt really elevate the play of anyone else on that team. And maybe he knew he couldnt. So he took a lot of the game into his own hands and ran a lot. I think he has a very good arm. But his accuracy is suspect. Especially in the medium range. He does throw a beautiful deep ball as well. And I wouldnt lose it if they picked Howell at 11. I think he is a late first early second player. But if you have to take him at 11 because you love him than do it. 

He had a receiver with 100+ receptions and 1300 yards, another with 600+ yards and a thousand yard back. And he almost ran for 1k. What do you mean he didn’t elevate others?

[Thinking Skins]

15 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

This was most silly analysis ever. Dude looked up all the passes inclusive all misses and marked distance. To find the biggest miss. Some of the guys where open and should be 6 if they catch it. 

I don't want to just create work for others (or maybe I do), but this is up the alley of what I want. It answers one question - how far can they throw the ball in a live game and how does it look effort wise. What I want now is just a gif or short video of say every attempt over 40 air yards or so. In particular, It'd be interesting to see the completions. Do they hit the WRs in stride? How is the placement? Is it vs tight coverage or zone?

 

But I think this is interesting and I do like that more people are putting time into this process and making the hobby of studying these prospects more fun and without the need to (sorry @Skinsinparadise) watch the entire games. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Thinking Skins

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't want to just create work for others (or maybe I do), but this is up the alley of what I want. It answers one question - how far can they throw the ball in a live game and how does it look effort wise. What I want now is just a gif or short video of say every attempt over 40 air yards or so. In particular, It'd be interesting to see the completions. Do they hit the WRs in stride? How is the placement? Is it vs tight coverage or zone?

 

But I think this is interesting and I do like that more people are putting time into this process and making the hobby of studying these prospects more fun and without the need to (sorry @Skinsinparadise) watch the entire games. 

 

lol, I'll be on you until you watch full games. 

 

The thing about watching a full game is you can see decision making for yourself.  You can't see that on highlights or stats.  Granted its a subjective process to do it but still watching throw after throw tells you IMO a lot more, decision making, how are they under pressure, throwing on the move, what type of offense are they running, do they play conservative or ballsy, pocket presence, you can see their bad throws not just their good ones, etc.  I don't think you can see that easily by watching highlights or reading stats.

 

Having said that I put as much as stats on the thread as anyone.  So i do love that stuff too as a supplement.  If you'd rather look at numbers I am compiling a bunch of them right now at QB, I'll post them soon. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Matt Miller mock, got it an an email so I can't link it

 

11. Washington Football Team—QB Matt Corral, Ole Miss 

The Football Team will likely be heavily involved in quarterback trade talks this off-season, but outside of Ron Rivera there isn’t much here (from an ownership and front office perspective) to make it an attractive destination for established starters. Instead, look for Washington to be very involved in the first-round crop of quarterbacks. Matt Corral has the arm strength and athleticism to be the dual-threat difference-maker this offense needs.

 

18. New Orleans Saints—QB Kenny Pickett, Pitt 

A good pre-draft process could definitely push Kenny Pickett up the board, but right now he ranks as a mid-first round talent. That’s perfect for the New Orleans Saints where Pickett’s accuracy, anticipation, and moxie would make him the Week 1 starter in 2022. Pickett doesn’t have the big-time elite traits, but he’s simply a really smooth passer with the tools to be a good mid-level starter in the pros that can be elevated with a good team around him.

 

20. Pittsburgh Steelers—QB Carson Strong, Nevada 

Questions about a knee injury could affect Strong’s draft stock, but with Ben Roetliisberger likely done in Pittsburgh there is a need for a big-armed passer who can work with the team’s talented receivers. Strong fits the bill of a passer able to handle the weather in the Steel City but does lack the top-end athleticism that many teams prefer. If the Steelers are willing to stick with a pocket quarterback, Strong is ideal.

 

27. Detroit Lions (f/LAR)—QB Malik Willis, Liberty

The Lions went with pass-rusher Aidan Hutchinson at No. 2 overall due to this being a weak quarterback class but they still land a viable future starter in Malik Willis. Based purely on traits, Willis is the most intriguing of the ‘22 class. He has to speed up his process and cut down on his turnovers, but the arm talent and athleticism he possesses are worth trying to develop. As a late-first-rounder, the pressure would be off Willis to save the Lions and instead give him time to acclimate and learn.

 

Round 2

33. Jaguars—CB Andrew Booth Jr., Clemson

34. Lions—DT Jordan Davis, Georgia

35. Jets—OL Darian Kinnard, Kentucky

36. Giants—CB Trent McDuffie, Washington 

37. Texans—RB Breece Hall, Iowa State 

38. Jets (f/CAR)—WR John Metchie III, Alabama

39. Bears—OG Zion Johnson, Boston College

40. Broncos—QB Sam Howell, North Carolina 

41. Seahawks—EDGE Cameron Thomas, San Diego State 

42. WFT—WR David Bell, Purdue 

43. Falcons—QB Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati 

[DWinzit]

Sure hope we addressed LB, FS and CB in FA based on that Matt Miller mock

Not a huge fan or WR in the 2nd

[KDawg]

It’s too early for mocks to be taken seriously. Yes some of these guys are plugged in and getting info directly from teams, but teams are still organizing and the next two to three months are usually full of evaluation changes. The interviews change a lot, as does the combine.