2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DiscoBob]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

His hands are so so little. 

 

With the WFTs commitment to sexual harassment, we can't draft a guy with small hands...

[kingdaddy]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

So we’ve spent 5 of 6 firsts on D… so you want to draft more Defense first?

I do, if it's a stud safety or LB. I'd take a big, fast WR too if it's someone like a Jamar Chase or Calvin Johnson type. We need playmakers....period. The more studs we get on defense the more damaging Chase Young and Jonathon Allen should be. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Part of the reason why I think some of these Qbs will fall is because there are major reasons to talk yourself out of all of these guys.  So IMO it puts some serious pressure on scouts.  And some teams are gun shy about getting it wrong because it can cost people jobs.  I was listening to a Giant beat guy on 106.7 yesterday and he goes the Giants will very likely explore the trade market, especially Russell Wilson but suggested if they fail they will unlikely take a Qb in the draft based on what he heard.

 

All these guys fall in what I call the Mac Jones bucket where you can talk yourself into him or talk tyourself out of them depending on what you focus on.  Not that other QBs that are ballyhooed don't have flaws but some of them feel safer or have more tantalizing upside. 

 

Matt Corral -- concerns IMO about his size-duability and the style of offense he played it

 

Sam Howell -- numbers not as good his last year, pocket presence?

 

Kenny Pickett:  One year college wonder -- ala Matt Barkley?  small hands.  With some exceptions, competition mostly wasn't tough.

 

Malik Willis:  Decision making?  Accuracy?  Level of competiton

 

Desmond Ridder:  Accuracy issues?  Decision making.  Consistency?

 

Zappe:  Level of competion, does he have any elite traits?

 

Carson Strong:  injury history, mobility?

 

On all these guys, you got to take a risk.  The reason why I am not as down on this group the way some others are is we typically are shopping in this aisle not the top 2 QBs, etc or where we have a shot at the elite supposedly can't miss guy or two. 

 

And typically there are 2-3 B level guys like this.  IMO there are more B level prospects to shop from in this draft than typically.  It's not that I don't think a B prospect can turn into an A, I think indeed that can happen -- just saying it takes more projection to figure that out.    Forgot which media draft guy spelled out this same thing on a WFT meda guy podcast weeks back but he articulated it well which is there could be a guy or two from this class who really excels, it just takes a bit more imagination and luck to figure out who those guys are.

 

IIRC, this is where Justin Herbert was 2 years ago.  There were a lot of concerns about him and that's why when he went #6 to the Chargers, some people said he went a little too high.

 

I am so tired of not having a quarterback.  And as ridiculous as it sounds, I am in favor of drafting two of these guys and seeing how they pan out.  Last time we had a modicum of QB draft success, that's what happened.  RG3 and Cousins.  And while RG3 flamed out after one spectacular year, Cousins stepped up and gave us some stability.  The only stability we've had in close to 30 years.

 

Draft 2 of them, see what happens.  It might be killing a mosquito with a machine gun but whatever.  

[Chump Bailey]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

the emergence of Jordan Addison was a big factor in his success. 

 

Glad you mentioned Addison steve - I really like that dude. Seems like DeVonta Smith 2.0

 

That scout's take on Pickett is laughable. How anyone can watch tape of him and not see NFL QB caliber traits is absurd and his rushing/evading ability is vastly underrated. He's a mixed bag like all the others but a 5th round grade is ridiculous IMO.

[wilco_holland]

And how about our second rounder. People have targets for that?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

And how about our second rounder. People have targets for that?

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps there's no player in college football who did more for his NFL draft stock than Clark during this past season. From falling off the NFL draft map to firmly in first round discussion, there's little doubt Clark has a bright future at the professional level. Clark led the country in tackles with 135 tackles, 15.5 tackles for a loss, 5.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and an interception.

He was undoubtedly one of the most improved players in the country and became a finalist for the Butkus Award before ultimately losing out to Georgia's Nakobe Dean. Always a phenomenal leader for this group, where Clark really improved was in his coverage, his tackling and in the ability to use his hands at the line of scrimmage. 

 

https://www.si.com/college/lsu/football/damone-clark-lsu-next-chapter-career

[OtisDriftwood25]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps there's no player in college football who did more for his NFL draft stock than Clark during this past season. From falling off the NFL draft map to firmly in first round discussion, there's little doubt Clark has a bright future at the professional level. Clark led the country in tackles with 135 tackles, 15.5 tackles for a loss, 5.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and an interception.

He was undoubtedly one of the most improved players in the country and became a finalist for the Butkus Award before ultimately losing out to Georgia's Nakobe Dean. Always a phenomenal leader for this group, where Clark really improved was in his coverage, his tackling and in the ability to use his hands at the line of scrimmage. 

 

https://www.si.com/college/lsu/football/damone-clark-lsu-next-chapter-career

Yeah i wrote about this guy a while back. Him and Chad Muma of Wyoming are both very very high on my board. Probably close to top 10 without quarterback weighted scale. Need to see a lot more during the draft process of course.

[method man]

A reason I like Dean is because he is a 4.0 GPA guy who is an engineering manager. You have no doubt that he has the football IQ to digest and call an NFL defense

[Est.1974]

I’m seeing a approach to a couple of years back, I could see us trading up from the second round back into the lower first to have 2 first rounders. QB and LB please.
 

Just pick a better QB this time.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, method man said:

A reason I like Dean is because he is a 4.0 GPA guy who is an engineering manager. You have no doubt that he has the football IQ to digest and call an NFL defense

 

Yep, agree, that's been talked about in the mix about him.   I don't want to think much though of the first round LBs because the odds clearly are low that's the direction they take with the pick. 

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’m seeing a approach to a couple of years back, I could see us trading up from the second round back into the lower first to have 2 first rounders. QB and LB please.
 

Just pick a better QB this time.

 

Listening to Keim among others feels like they want a veteran LB.  But I guess you never know maybe a good one never hits the market and they are left with the draft.

[Koolblue13]

9 hours ago, method man said:

A reason I like Dean is because he is a 4.0 GPA guy who is an engineering manager. You have no doubt that he has the football IQ to digest and call an NFL defense

Mamu, who I know you like also, mechanical engineering from Wyoming, just like chase Roullier. He'd be a great get in the 3rd.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:27 AM, Thinking Skins said:

I completely agree with this. I think our conversation is normally about first round vs lower round, whereas I like this way of putting it. If we look at Mac Jones, I still don't think he's an A level QB. I didn't last year going into the draft and I don't after his rookie year. He's playing much like I wanted Haskins to play. But I think he has the GOAT of head coaches who is bringing him along properly and he has the smarts and willingness to work on his weaknesses so that in 2 or 3 years we may see a development in him similar to Dak Prescott in his miracle rookie season (very similar numbers) but without the running ability. 

 

That said I think that if Ron can develop whoever we draft, and protect them from what Heinicke called trying to make a 14 point play, then we can have decent QB play from a rookie in this class. What scares me about some of these guys is that a guy like Fromm was also considered a B level talent and he's looked horrible. Is it a NY thing or were we just wrong?

 

Fromm went in the 5th round.  5th round is C level talent.  What is it like 98% of 5th round QBs fail.     Fromm had some hype early on in college but he didn't end on a high note.  Fromm would be analogous to someone like Brock Purdy

 

As you know I don't typically love the perceived 3-6 best QBs in a draft.  But every draft is different.   I didn't like Daniel Jones and Haskins for example.  I was mixed on Lock.    So in 2019, pass.  But in some drafts its a maybe for me.  This would be one of those.

 

To me Howell, Corral, are more intriguing than the non-Murray the 2019 class.     Even the dudes I am mixed on like Strong and Ridder, I'd take over what I thought of Jones and Haskins back then.   Willis, too.  I am reserving judgment on Willis in particular to the Senior Bowl. 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fromm went in the 5th round.  5th round is C level talent.  What is it like 98% of 5th round QBs fail.     Fromm had some hype early on in college but he didn't end on a high note.  Fromm would be analogous to someone like Brock Purdy

 

As you know I don't typically love the perceived 3-6 best QBs in a draft.  But every draft is different.   I didn't like Daniel Jones and Haskins for example.  I was mixed on Lock.    So in 2019, pass.  But in some drafts its a maybe for me.  This would be one of those.

 

To me Howell, Corral, are more intriguing than the non-Murray the 2019 class.     Even the dudes I am mixed on like Strong and Ridder, I'd take over what I thought of Jones and Haskins back then.   Willis, too.  I am reserving judgment on Willis in particular to the Senior Bowl. 

 

This draft will probably yield one really decent legit starter who probably won't be one of the firsat guys taken and a mediocre guy who sticks around the league for a while and 2 or 3 coach killers who just never develop. 

 

It'll be like Howell going 4rth to the Steelers and in 3 years everyone is shocked he was the best of the group, ignoring the stability of the organization. Ridder sits for 2 years behind a veteran QB on a fully built team like the Chiefs and when he finally starts we hear a lot of "I can't believe this idiot FO passed on him. Guess that's why HC X was fired".

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This draft will probably yield one really decent legit starter who probably won't be one of the firsat guys taken and a mediocre guy who sticks around the league for a while and 2 or 3 coach killers who just never develop. 

 

It'll be like Howell going 4rth to the Steelers and in 3 years everyone is shocked he was the best of the group, ignoring the stability of the organization. Ridder sits for 2 years behind a veteran QB on a fully built team like the Chiefs and when he finally starts we hear a lot of "I can't believe this idiot FO passed on him. Guess that's why HC X was fired".

 

Something like that.   I think its not hard to see how any of these type 6 QBs succeed but also not hard to see how they can fail, too.

 

I think what's missing in this group is a high floor QB.  Some say that would be Pickett, i get the point, but I disagree. 

 

I think the scouts will really earn their money on this group.  To me the safest QB if I had to pick one is Corral, not because I can't see him failing but because IMO he has some upside where I think that upside is cleaner and projects easier than some of the other prospects. 

 

It doesn't surprise me that scouts have very different hierarachies with this group.  As for Ridder, IMO he more than any other of these 6 QBs needs a supporting cast to thrive, if he goes to a team without one I think he will really struggle.  Ditto Strong if he doesn't have a good O line.  All these guys obviously would benefit from a good supporting cast but IMO the lack of one will effect some of these guys more than others. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fromm went in the 5th round.  5th round is C level talent.  What is it like 98% of 5th round QBs fail.     Fromm had some hype early on in college but he didn't end on a high note.  Fromm would be analogous to someone like Brock Purdy

 

As you know I don't typically love the perceived 3-6 best QBs in a draft.  But every draft is different.   I didn't like Daniel Jones and Haskins for example.  I was mixed on Lock.    So in 2019, pass.  But in some drafts its a maybe for me.  This would be one of those.

 

To me Howell, Corral, are more intriguing than the non-Murray the 2019 class.     Even the dudes I am mixed on like Strong and Ridder, I'd take over what I thought of Jones and Haskins back then.   Willis, too.  I am reserving judgment on Willis in particular to the Senior Bowl. 

 

Thats interesting. I hadn't done the research on him after the draft. I just knew he was somebody people were calling a sleeper (saw the word leader a lot), but you're right his college profile isn't what I was remembering it as. I honestly thought he was a fringe first guy who just slipped in the draft (ala Lock). What I think sucks for him the most is his lack of mobility. His accuracy seemed ok but not really a weapon. I take back my statement comparing him to the top guys in this draft (maybe he's comparable to a Zeppe but even then I have to wonder where Zeppe will go). 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Thats interesting. I hadn't done the research on him after the draft. I just knew he was somebody people were calling a sleeper (saw the word leader a lot), but you're right his college profile isn't what I was remembering it as. I honestly thought he was a fringe first guy who just slipped in the draft (ala Lock). What I think sucks for him the most is his lack of mobility. His accuracy seemed ok but not really a weapon. I take back my statement comparing him to the top guys in this draft (maybe he's comparable to a Zeppe but even then I have to wonder where Zeppe will go). 

 

Fromm had a spell where the perception was he could graduate to being a late first-2nd rounder.  But his play didn't end up justifying that along with lacking the traits.  I watched his game against the Eagles.  It might be the worst performance i've seen from a QB, it made Beck's performance against the Bills years back look stellar in comparsion.  I don't know if it was Fromm being nervous but wow -- he doesn't have a lot of arm talent but I thought he could be efficient with the ball at Georgia.  In that Giants game, the dude has no accuracy whatsoever.

 

I think Zappe is much more intriguing than Fromm was.  Senior Bowl will be big for him.  This is I think is the most intriguing Senior Bowl for QBs that I could ever remember. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think Zappe is much more intriguing than Fromm was.  Senior Bowl will be big for him.  This is I think is the most intriguing Senior Bowl for QBs that I could ever remember. 

Absolutely! I am a big fan of Zappe if WFT ends out for whatever reason not needing a QB on day one.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Absolutely! I am a big fan of Zappe if WFT ends out for whatever reason not needing a QB on day one.

 

 

Senior Bowl for me and others here should be a lot of fun.  Here's what i am looking for as for being reassured about negatives.

 

Zappe:  Jack of all trades, master of none?  How does he play with higher competition?

 

Malik Willis:  does he kill it, or is he too raw and is exposed like Jamie Newman was, or something in between?  Accuracy on the 2nd level?  Decision making?

 

Ridder:  Accuracy in the flat, consistency, decision making?

 

Strong:  Can he handle pressure?

 

Howell:  pocket presence, does his mobility translate to the NFL considering he's mostly not really elusive when he runs

 

Pickett:  hand size-throwing, arm strength, accuracy-over blown?

 

All of this might help Strong the most. You don't really get pressured much in the Senior Bowl.  IMO his game collapses the most under pressure so if he has an ideal environment he could kill it in a setting like that.  Thinking about some of those practice QB drills where the QBs throw deep balls, crossers, fades one on one against a CB, I think that would be totally up his alley.  To some extent Howell, too.   Maybe Pickett.

 

I am not saying I am confident that i am right or wrong or not on this but one thing about Pickett to me that feels overplayed is accuracy.   Watching him I think he's accurate.  But Burrow or Mac Jones level accurate?  He doesn't strike me so.   But I am open midned on that.  It would be interesting for me to see him for example he and Howell throwing back to back on those QB drills.

 

The #1 thing I love about going to our training camps is watching our QBs throw back to back on drill after drill.  It really gives you a good window on arm talent and accuracy apples to apples from one QB to another.  It will be cool to have that in the Senior Bowl though granted TV isn't as good as seeing it in person.  Granted there is more to QB play than arm talent and accuracy with no pressure but those variables are certainly important in the mix. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

Strong will get the most help from the combine. If the medicals come back great he can really shoot up. His arm talent is really the only elite trait in the entire draft. If hes only going to gain more mobility over the next couple years as he recovers more it would be a great things

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Strong will get the most help from the combine. If the medicals come back great he can really shoot up. His arm talent is really the only elite trait in the entire draft. If hes only going to gain more mobility over the next couple years as he recovers more it would be a great things

 

I'm not sold on Strong yet but don't dislike him. I am of the opinion Utah State's Logan Bonner is the better prospect of the two but he is much less heralded. I like Bonner a lot and think he is Howell 2.0

Edited January 8, 2022 by Chump Bailey

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Senior Bowl for me and others here should be a lot of fun.  Here's what i am looking for as for being reassured about negatives.

 

Zappe:  Jack of all trades, master of none?  How does he play with higher competition?

 

Malik Willis:  does he kill it, or is he too raw and is exposed like Jamie Newman was, or something in between?  Accuracy on the 2nd level?  Decision making?

 

Ridder:  Accuracy in the flat, consistency, decision making?

 

Strong:  Can he handle pressure?

 

Howell:  pocket presence, does his mobility translate to the NFL considering he's mostly not really elusive when he runs

 

Pickett:  hand size-throwing, arm strength, accuracy-over blown?

 

All of this might help Strong the most. You don't really get pressured much in the Senior Bowl.  IMO his game collapses the most under pressure so if he has an ideal environment he could kill it in a setting like that.  Thinking about some of those practice QB drills where the QBs throw deep balls, crossers, fades one on one against a CB, I think that would be totally up his alley.  To some extent Howell, too.   Maybe Pickett.

 

I am not saying I am confident that i am right or wrong or not on this but one thing about Pickett to me that feels overplayed is accuracy.   Watching him I think he's accurate.  But Burrow or Mac Jones level accurate?  He doesn't strike me so.   But I am open midned on that.  It would be interesting for me to see him for example he and Howell throwing back to back on those QB drills.

 

The #1 thing I love about going to our training camps is watching our QBs throw back to back on drill after drill.  It really gives you a good window on arm talent and accuracy apples to apples from one QB to another.  It will be cool to have that in the Senior Bowl though granted TV isn't as good as seeing it in person.  Granted there is more to QB play than arm talent and accuracy with no pressure but those variables are certainly important in the mix. 

 

Really like that you emphasis the negatives. They are where we need to focus.

I cannot wait until Senior Bowl week when these guys are showcased in different atmospheres than they are accustomed to. 

Strong is the guy I have the hardest time getting a handle on and figure that will change in a few weeks.

I most look forward to watching Willis, Zappe and Strong to see them handle the challenges.

 

I am willing to admit I was a Newman fan (oh what a disappointment) so Willis had better not resemble him lol. I have been impressed with Willis, wish he had a little more experience. 

 

Regarding Pickett, I think I would like him more if he was playing in a dome or with a warm weather team. It would erase much of the hand size concerns for me. I mean, he has had a hell of a college career buy damn or those hands small

 

[philibusters]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Strong will get the most help from the combine. If the medicals come back great he can really shoot up. His arm talent is really the only elite trait in the entire draft. If hes only going to gain more mobility over the next couple years as he recovers more it would be a great things

 

I'd take Willis athleticism over Strong's arm in terms of elite traits amongst QB's.

[clskinsfan]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:03 AM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Romo's were average.  The place citing the small hand size had a typo.  Other sources had a larger hand size, something around 9.6 or 9.7 inches.

You got that source? Everything I have seen had Romo's hands under 9 inches.