2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[757SeanTaylor21]

There's 0 chance Clark is in the 3rd. Or Howell is in 2nd. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Jordan Love.

Not a like for like comp. Love was a moronic speculative pick to send Rodgers a message, he’s much more analogous to say Jimmy Clausen a decade ago than Cam Newton or any other QB drafted to become the franchise guy.

 

I cede your point but I don’t think Love was anything beyond a kind of Junk Bond caliber speculative investment. Willis may sit a year or 8 games but if he’s taken w/top 10-20 draft capital they aren’t taking him to sit him 2 years.

[Jds0912]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This one has Pickett and Corral go before our pick.  And we take Desmond Ridder.  This coming from the dude who pushed for Ridder in the 2nd round when it looked he would come out in last year's draft -- but I'd flip out if they took him at 11.  

 

Of the top 6 QBs, Ridder has to do the most work to win me over.  Having said that if he kills it in the Senior Bowl I might warm up to it.  Right now, it makes me cringe. 

 

 

 

There’s nothing Ridder can do between now and the draft to convince me he’s worth a first round pick. He looks great against weak competition and when he played  actual nfl level talent in the cfp he throws for 140 yards and zero td’s. I felt the same way about Zach Wilson and Trey Lance. Wouldn’t even waste a 3rd round pick on him. 

[OtisDriftwood25]

My take on quarterbacks before pre-draft process

 

Matt Corall - Most talented. Ran a very quarterback friendly scheme that is mostly first read stuff. Sometimes would get to 2 then run. Needs to sit at the start of the career.

 

Malik Willis - Great offensive coach, Hugh Freese, at a small school, in bad conference. Maybe highest Ceiling but also lowest floor. Needs to have off the charts interview to say, hey I’m your future of the franchise QB and you can believe in me. Needs elite work ethic like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson

 

Kenny Pickett - He had more first read stuff than expected. I was surprised. He also has a couple really talented playmakers. Number 3 jumps off the screen. Need more time with him but not in love.

 

Sam Howell - To be honest I think he has a bit of the Lamar Jackson syndrome. He’s been so good for so long there are ridiculous expectations. I think he reads the defense the most during the play of the top 5 and is my number 1 qb currently. When watching live I would think he holds the ball too long but everyone could be covered.

 

Carson Strong - Harder to get a read. His knee is not healthy. He has big strong arm, stands strong in pocket, makes quick decisions. I really like him but think he should redshirt and get his knee cleaned up. 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

11

MATT CORRAL

QB Ole Miss

 

Matt Corral can be the franchise quarterback of the Washington Football Team

Matt Corral is the QB1 for a weak draft class at the position in my book. However, that makes him valuable at No. 10 for Washington. Taylor Heinicke has been fun to watch but his ceiling is very well defined and not all that high. As such, the dual-threat ability and accuracy of Corral raises what the Football Team can accomplish.

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This one has Pickett and Corral go before our pick.  And we take Desmond Ridder.  This coming from the dude who pushed for Ridder in the 2nd round when it looked he would come out in last year's draft -- but I'd flip out if they took him at 11.  

 

Of the top 6 QBs, Ridder has to do the most work to win me over.  Having said that if he kills it in the Senior Bowl I might warm up to it.  Right now, it makes me cringe. 

 

 

 

 

Interesting to see more and more mocks with Malik Willis not even being taken in the 1st. I was basically called crazy for suggesting the same thing a couple weeks ago. He's had a pretty subpar season when you take into account the hype he had coming into it and how he played early on. But then he had some really bad games that showcased poor accuracy and decision making.

 

I still have a feeling he'll go in the 1st, but it wouldn't at all shock me to see him fall to the 2nd either.

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

2. (tie) Sam Howell:  Baker Mayfield at his best

 

I don't think his best touches how good Baker was at that level.  Baker was a superstar in college and a Heisman winner who went #1 overall in a highly regarded QB class.  Baker was freakishly talented and it's easy to forget that now given how things have gone to **** for Cleveland. 

 

Kind of amazing that he's held on to his starting job so persistently despite going through Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens not to mention tons of upheaval in the front office.  I could see a similar scuffling early career path happen for Trevor Lawrence too.  Good QBs playing for bad organizations like him and Derek Carr and Matt Ryan and (formerly) Matt Stafford are interesting windows into our potential even if we finally stumble onto one ourselves.  They won't singlehandedly elevate us as much as we think having one will.  You've got to build a whole team and it is treacherously difficult to field a championship caliber defense at the same time as having a good QB in his prime plus a necessary panoply of weapons to actually get your money's worth from the QB.

[Going Commando]

Pickett was a baller this season.  I like the edge he plays with when he's not pulling total **** moves like fake slides, but I don't need a boy scout playing QB.  He's got some quickness but he has no wiggle or escapability as a runner, and if his pocket broke down and he didn't leave it early, it was a surefire sack.  I also think he's nervous in the pocket and has noisy feet and drops his eyes and puts the ball down and reverts to scramble mode too often in pockets that are still good.  He's got some bad habits and you can tell breaking out and rolling right is his comfort blanket.  He's got some manifest play making ability and creativity running right, but he is going to have to hang tougher in the pocket and be more decisive in the NFL.

 

I'm not blown away by his arm talent.  I don't think his arm strength is anything special but I do think he's a nicely balanced thrower with quick feet and a quick release and there is some good ball handling feel there.  His drops are nice and the results were really beautiful when he stayed on schedule this year.  He had Drew Brees looking reps pushing the ball downfield and outside of the numbers when he had a nice pocket and his receivers won early.  Plays where you can tell he knew what was going to be available pre snap and the throws were dimes.  He can improvise throws too and he does look really good throwing while running right.  I think his touch and placement are good and the quality of his placement and field reading creativity are where he was clearly better than all of the other serious prospects in this class this season.  I think he's got the make up to be a successful starter, especially if he goes to a good team, but I'm not blown away by his film or his traits.  I'd take him over having no real plan at the position though.  Like I said, he's accurate and aggressive and he's got some alpha in him.

 

I don't think his, Corrall's, or Howell's athleticism are special at all.  Speaking of Corrall, for a kid who came up playing RB, I thought he would be a more natural runner.  But he runs like a QB too, slow ass wheeling changes of direction with no real wiggle to him.  No ability to hit running back type creases.  Ridder is clearly on a different level as an athlete from them, and Willis is on a different level than all of them.  Ridder is a quality athlete at the position.  Willis is a genuinely elite one.  He's a natural runner and unlike other elite athlete QBs like Murray and Jackson, he's got a power dynamic to his running game that is like a big back.  He routinely makes free rushers miss or fall off while keeping his eyes downfield, to the point where he gets blitzers and DLs playing with fear and playing slower.  That quality of being the hammer in the pocket and not the nail is a special trait that none of the other QBs share, and when you combine that with his ludicrous arm strength, it seriously confuses me that he's not the consensus #1 QB prospect in this otherwise mediocre class.  I don't understand how people either can't see or don't care that he's head and shoulders more talented than the other dudes.  He sticks out so much.  Traits have been key predictors of success for QBs in the last five drafts.   I somewhat understand underestimating traits if you spend all of your time watching true masters like Brady and Rodgers exert total control over the game from inside the pocket.  But this class doesn't have dudes like that in it.  They're all runners or wannabe runners, except for the long shots.  What this class does have is the love child of Mike Vick and Vince Young in it, only he's a super religious kid going to a church school and thus he's probably not going to have their off field baggage.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Speaking of Corrall, for a kid who came up playing RB, I thought he would be a more natural runner.  But he runs like a QB too, slow ass wheeling changes of direction with no real wiggle to him.  No ability to hit running back type creases.  Ridder is clearly on a different level as an athlete from them

 

Some good points in that post.  I couldn't disagree more with this one though.  As I've mentioned at times, Corral runs at times like Howell where he plows right into defenders.  But plenty of times you could see his elusiveness in open field.  Ridder to me is more of a straight line runner versus elusive.  But with his long legs, Ridder is a homerun hitter when he takes off.  When he gets some steam he's hard to catch.

 

To show its not just me we got:

 

Jim Nagy who has nailed a lot over the years as to QBs, called Corral "an elusive ad lib runner"

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-matt-corral-ole-miss-qb-a-top-contender-for-zach-wilson-like-ascent

Daniel Jeremiah

 

What I liked: Corral has a very intriguing skill set. He's an excellent athlete and a versatile thrower. He's capable of driving the ball into small windows, layering the ball over linebackers/under safeties and dropping the deep ball into the bucket. His overall touch is outstanding. He has tremendous quickness and awareness inside the pocket to avoid the free rusher. He is effective on designed QB runs because of his suddenness and ability to elude defenders. He is very competitive to fight for extra yards.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

5. Desmond Ridder:  Jalen Hurts

When I watch Ridder whether slinging the ball or getting up a head of steam with those legs, I think of Colin Kaepernick

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

When I watch Ridder whether slinging the ball or getting up a head of steam with those legs, I think of Colin Kaepernick

 

It's a good analogy.

 

There are two things I have a hard time getting over with Ridder.

 

A.  His wild inconsistency throwing simple out routes in the flat -- that was one of Haskins struggles, too.  I've mentioned it before but when I watched Haskins struggle to throw accurately quick outs in camp i couldn't really get it out of my head afterwards because its such a staple Qb throw. 

 

B.  Sketchy decision making sometimes make me wonder about his vision. 

 

I like the fact that he has a baller mindset.  I like his arm talent.  I like his mobility.  So there is more to him as a package that I like over lets say Haskins but his red flags in my mind make me pause.  I want to see his Senior Bowl.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's a good analogy.

 

There are two things I have a hard time getting over with Ridder.

 

A.  His wild inconsistency throwing simple out routes in the flat -- that was one of Haskins things.  I've mentioned it before but when I watch Haskins struggle to throw accurately quick outs in camp i couldn't really get it out of my head afterwards because its such a staple Qb throw. 

 

B.  Sketchy decision making sometimes make me wonder about his vision. 

 

I like the fact that he has a baller mindset.  I like his arm talent.  I like his mobility.  So there is more to him that I like over lets say Haskins but his red flags in my mind make me pause.  I want to see his Senior Bowl.

LIke you I found myself frustrated watching Ridders inconsistencies last year. I expected him to be exponentially better with that this year. Instead only seemed to slightly improve or was it masked further by his athleticism and level of talent on his team? I thought he would be a top 15 pick this year, but I don't see him worthy until the end of the 1st or the 2nd...and he is boom or bust.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

Interesting to see more and more mocks with Malik Willis not even being taken in the 1st. I was basically called crazy for suggesting the same thing a couple weeks ago. He's had a pretty subpar season when you take into account the hype he had coming into it and how he played early on. But then he had some really bad games that showcased poor accuracy and decision making.

 

I still have a feeling he'll go in the 1st, but it wouldn't at all shock me to see him fall to the 2nd either.

 

The thing with Willis IMO is the Senior Bowl is key for better or worse.    I put hardly any stock in mocks this early.   If you look at many mocks this early when it comes to QBs at this time, they tend to jump a lot.

 

Having said that McShay has Willis in his mock in the first at #17, not that it matters.  

[mistertim]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing with Willis IMO is the Senior Bowl is key for better or worse.    I put hardly any stock in mocks this early.   If you look at many mocks this early when it comes to QBs at this time, they tend to jump a lot.

 

Having said that McShay has Willis in his mock in the first at #17, not that it matters.  

 

Yeah I agree that the Senior Bowl will probably be very important for him. I get that he's an elite physical specimen and has a huge arm, but when I've watched him play I was never all that impressed with him outside of that. He has a cannon, but his accuracy goes up and down, his decision making is questionable, especially when he's pressured, and he also plays in a very simplified offense that's mostly one read and run.

 

And yes, mocks right now aren't super reliable (insofar as they're ever reliable). But I just found it interesting how he's fallen since the very iffy second half of his season. Early on he was almost a lock as a top 5 or at least top 10 pick in most mocks. Now I've seen him everywhere from top 5 (but only in one or two mocks) to middle of the 1st (pretty common) to the 2nd (not super common but much more common than being in the top 5).

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I agree that the Senior Bowl will probably be very important for him. I get that he's an elite physical specimen and has a huge arm, but when I've watched him play I was never all that impressed with him outside of that. He has a cannon, but his accuracy goes up and down, his decision making is questionable, especially when he's pressured, and he also plays in a very simplified offense that's mostly one read and run.

 

And yes, mocks right now aren't super reliable (insofar as they're ever reliable). But I just found it interesting how he's fallen since the very iffy second half of his season. Early on he was almost a lock as a top 5 or at least top 10 pick in most mocks. Now I've seen him everywhere from top 5 (but only in one or two mocks) to middle of the 1st (pretty common) to the 2nd (not super common but much more common than being in the top 5).

 

Yeah for me I don't really have a hard opinion on Malik Willis.  I do want to see the Senior Bowl for different reasons as for all these guys but especially Willis.  

 

I don't see for example why Trey Lance deserved such lofty status in last year's draft while Willis doesn't deserve it.  My feelings about both are very similar.   Lance with better decision making chops IMO, Willis being IMO even the bigger freak arm talent wise and as a runner.

 

My only disagreemnt with you on Willis isn't really about the player.  I haven't landed a strong take about the player yet one way or another.  My disagreement is when people make the case that Rivera isn't the type to run an offense with a running QB like that now so this isn't the right fit for him -- I gather there is no way to know one way or another, but I don't get the sense that Rivera regrets his run with a running QB in Cam.   When he talks about Cam on occasion almost feels like yearning-nostalgia.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah for me I don't really have a hard opinion on Malik Willis.  I do want to see the Senior Bowl for different reasons as for all these guys but especially Willis.  

 

I don't see for example why Trey Lance deserved such lofty status in last year's draft while Willis doesn't deserve it.  My feelings about both are very similar.   Lance with better decision making chops IMO, Willis being IMO even the bigger freak arm talent wise and as a runner.

 

My only disagreemnt with you on Willis isn't really about the player.  I haven't landed a strong take about the player yet one way or another.  My disagreement is when people make the case that Rivera isn't the type to run an offense with a running QB like that now so this isn't the right fit for him -- I gather there is no way to know one way or another, but I don't get the sense that Rivera regrets his run with a running QB in Cam.   When he talks about Cam on occasion almost feels like yearning-nostalgia.

 

Yeah we've had this discussion before regarding Rivera and Cam and running QBs and you make fair points.

 

One thing that does make me question it though is how Turner recently was talking about what he looks for in a QB and while he definitely said that athleticism and the ability to extend plays is very important nowadays, he also seemed to stress that he wants a QB who can beat you with his arm first, and then run if need be.

 

So if Ron is ok with a running QB but Turner isn't all that into it, would Ron necessarily force that on him or would he allow Turner to make that call?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

So, assuming we have pick #11 and QB is addressed another way before the draft, what WOULD the play be there? Do we have the luxury of drafting a WR? TE?

 

I assume pick #11 will be leveraged for a QB one way or another so it's probably a moot point.

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

So, assuming we have pick #11 and QB is addressed another way before the draft, what WOULD the play be there? Do we have the luxury of drafting a WR? TE?

 

I assume pick #11 will be leveraged for a QB one way or another so it's probably a moot point.

 

Linebacker

[bowhunter]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

So, assuming we have pick #11 and QB is addressed another way before the draft, what WOULD the play be there? Do we have the luxury of drafting a WR? TE?

 

I assume pick #11 will be leveraged for a QB one way or another so it's probably a moot point.

If he's available...Kyle Hamilton!!

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Linebacker

 

Yeah, I feel that. Although I'm curious to see if we address that in Free Agency. Seems ill-advised to go DL-DL-DL-DL-LB-LB with 6 straight drafts.

[MrJL]

48 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Yeah, I feel that. Although I'm curious to see if we address that in Free Agency. Seems ill-advised to go DL-DL-DL-DL-LB-LB with 6 straight drafts.

 

We need to do both.  I mean I like Holcomb and Davis is to new to be given up on already, but if we can get someone better than Holcomb I'm fine with him being a backup, so I think we need about three new linebackers.  Hudson is the only guy we've got who's really got potential besides them

Edited January 10, 2022 by MrJL

[KDawg]

Despite Lloyd and Dean being phenomenal, assuming we address QB and somehow have our first I’d go receiver most likely or Wydermyer.

Edited January 10, 2022 by KDawg

[clskinsfan]

14 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Pickett was a baller this season.  I like the edge he plays with when he's not pulling total **** moves like fake slides, but I don't need a boy scout playing QB.  He's got some quickness but he has no wiggle or escapability as a runner, and if his pocket broke down and he didn't leave it early, it was a surefire sack.  I also think he's nervous in the pocket and has noisy feet and drops his eyes and puts the ball down and reverts to scramble mode too often in pockets that are still good.  He's got some bad habits and you can tell breaking out and rolling right is his comfort blanket.  He's got some manifest play making ability and creativity running right, but he is going to have to hang tougher in the pocket and be more decisive in the NFL.

 

I'm not blown away by his arm talent.  I don't think his arm strength is anything special but I do think he's a nicely balanced thrower with quick feet and a quick release and there is some good ball handling feel there.  His drops are nice and the results were really beautiful when he stayed on schedule this year.  He had Drew Brees looking reps pushing the ball downfield and outside of the numbers when he had a nice pocket and his receivers won early.  Plays where you can tell he knew what was going to be available pre snap and the throws were dimes.  He can improvise throws too and he does look really good throwing while running right.  I think his touch and placement are good and the quality of his placement and field reading creativity are where he was clearly better than all of the other serious prospects in this class this season.  I think he's got the make up to be a successful starter, especially if he goes to a good team, but I'm not blown away by his film or his traits.  I'd take him over having no real plan at the position though.  Like I said, he's accurate and aggressive and he's got some alpha in him.

 

I don't think his, Corrall's, or Howell's athleticism are special at all.  Speaking of Corrall, for a kid who came up playing RB, I thought he would be a more natural runner.  But he runs like a QB too, slow ass wheeling changes of direction with no real wiggle to him.  No ability to hit running back type creases.  Ridder is clearly on a different level as an athlete from them, and Willis is on a different level than all of them.  Ridder is a quality athlete at the position.  Willis is a genuinely elite one.  He's a natural runner and unlike other elite athlete QBs like Murray and Jackson, he's got a power dynamic to his running game that is like a big back.  He routinely makes free rushers miss or fall off while keeping his eyes downfield, to the point where he gets blitzers and DLs playing with fear and playing slower.  That quality of being the hammer in the pocket and not the nail is a special trait that none of the other QBs share, and when you combine that with his ludicrous arm strength, it seriously confuses me that he's not the consensus #1 QB prospect in this otherwise mediocre class.  I don't understand how people either can't see or don't care that he's head and shoulders more talented than the other dudes.  He sticks out so much.  Traits have been key predictors of success for QBs in the last five drafts.   I somewhat understand underestimating traits if you spend all of your time watching true masters like Brady and Rodgers exert total control over the game from inside the pocket.  But this class doesn't have dudes like that in it.  They're all runners or wannabe runners, except for the long shots.  What this class does have is the love child of Mike Vick and Vince Young in it, only he's a super religious kid going to a church school and thus he's probably not going to have their off field baggage.

Nice post. My problem with Willis has a lot to do with the talent he played against. When he faced real competition he played poorly.  And he is prone to making bad mistakes. Also he didnt really elevate the play of teammates around him. And he is going to need a ton of work on his throwing motion and feet are a mess in the pocket. On top of his 12 INT's he also fumbled. A LOT. He wasnt really asked to do a lot at Liberty and was basically a single read then run guy.  I agree he is the best pure athlete at the position in this years draft. But being the best pure athlete at QB heading into the NFL means nothing as everyone else on the field is an elite athlete. I dont think we are in a position to take a project like him and sit him for a season. 

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Despite Lloyd and Dean being phenomenal, assuming we address QB and somehow have our first I’d go receiver most likely or Wydermyer.

Yeah, I just don't see how our 1st (via trade or selection) isn't used to address QB.  However, hypothetically, I'd say skill position or back 7 defender.  

[MrJL]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Despite Lloyd and Dean being phenomenal, assuming we address QB and somehow have our first I’d go receiver most likely or Wydermyer.

 

We have to hope that Samuel recovers though and Dyami Brown can still develop.  He was never meant to be more than our fourth WR this year after all