2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

I can see the Eagles getting both of them.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

RE: QB

 

If we can get a top 3-4 QB in this draft without selling the farm, we should do it. Even if we think Heinicke is the guy.

 

 

This is where I am at.  I guess my only difference with you perhaps is I think that possibility is more viable than I gather you do.  But no way to know until it plays out of course.  So we are just guessing. 

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can see the Eagles getting both of them.

 

lol, I know that was a joke. But considering Roseman's philosophy, he just might.  I admit I haven't watched the Eagles-Hurts much.  I guess I watch the wrong games when I do including yesterday where Hurts was brutal.  So I don't quite understand the hype around him. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is where I am at.  I guess my only difference with you perhaps is I think that possibility is more viable than I gather you do.  But no way to know until it plays out of course.  So we are just guessing. 

 

lol, I know that was a joke. But considering Roseman's philosophy, he just might.  I admit I haven't watched the Eagles-Hurts much.  I guess I watch the wrong games when I do including yesterday where Hurts was brutal.  So I don't quite understand the hype around him. 

Not a joke at all. They need a WR and back 7 help badly, but I think they role with Hurts for another year. Your boy DeVonta has been great for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Not a joke at all. They need a WR and back 7 help badly, but I think they role with Hurts for another year. Your boy DeVonta has been great for him.

 

Got it, I mixed up the posts, I thought you meant they take both Pickett and Howell. 

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Got it, I mixed up the posts, I thought you meant they take both Pickett and Howell. 

I'd totally prefer that. 

[method man]

I still can’t believe the Eagles will have 3 1st round picks. Roseman is what Allen would be if he were competent. Enough competence to offset the douchebaggery

[DWinzit]

Baker Mayfield isn't doing a good job convincing the team he is worthy of a new contract. He has always seemed borderline

Unless he leads the Browns to a season ending win streak, figure the Browns in on the first round QB race. They are in the same boat as WFT with wait and see on TH. They have Keenum to transition a draft pick.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by DWinzit

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I still can’t believe the Eagles will have 3 1st round picks. Roseman is what Allen would be if he were competent. Enough competence to offset the douchebaggery

 

 

I don't know.  They had to trade Wentz to get a first and Wentz (when right) is a QB you can win with.  Hurts was awful yesterday.  Threw the dumbest int ever at the end of the first half.  The Miami trade down was a good trade.  However, they trade up and take Smith instead of Parsons.  WRs are available every year and they passed on a position they need help desperately (LB).  They passed on Jefferson for Raegar.  

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we do draft at like 20, I think at least one of Lloyd, Hamilton, or Davis will be there for us. Dean too.  Maybe all four due to low position value.  LBers drop on draft day, Hamilton has been injured on top of having low position value, and 1 techs like Davis rarely make it into the first round.  Do any of us really want to pick Sam Howell or Kenny Pickett or a Big 10 skill player over a future All Pro defender?

 

To me I don't think anyone of us has the answer to this.  I've been on a good streak lately as for the QB spot but I've gotten plenty wrong too over the years.  It's the hardest position to evaluate in sports or so many scouts to say.

 

But if I had to come up with one definitive conclusion about the spot that would be we are limited watching the QBs from our couch.  There is nothing that beats seeing these guys in person.  To an extent that's true of other spots but its double so for QBs IMO.

 

When some for example were debating about Mac Jones' arm strength, I was confident in my point.  Why?  Because I saw the dude drop a deep out route to Jeudy close to where I was sitting at a game.  You could see plenty of zip on the throw.  You can see better at a game than you can on TV.   In training camp, you can watch these dudes throw every type of pass imaginable again and again and again right in front of your face.  And you can compare it to other QBs doing the exact same throws.  You can see the zip.  You can see accuracy.  You can better see if the are spotting or not spotting open receivers, etc.

 

I am not saying we can't see things from our living room.  We surely can see a lot.   But my point is its so much easier IMO to judge a QB when you can see the arm talent in person.  Where you can test their accuracy on every front when you bring them in for a pro day.   When you can interview them personally and people close to them and figure out what type of person they are.  Scouts have more data points than we do.  And when it comes to the QB spot, some of those data points that we don't have IMO are significant. 

 

That's my long winded way of saying, the FO should be able to judge these QBs with a better eye than us.  According to one reporter, Hurney at Carolina was a big Herbert guy before the draft. And he's the dude in that FO especially obsessed with QBs.  Hopefully, that's true. 

 

While I for example am not in love with Pickett based on what I've seen.  I am also not blown away by some of the other prospects but most of them do intrigue me at least to an extrent where I got to study them further.  If for example I learned that Pickett has Mac Jones like intangibles it would get my attention or whatever about whichever QB.  The one thing I'll say is of the top 6 touted QB prospects, there is no one in that mix that I hate.  And that's unusual for me.

 

But bringing this point home.  The FO has more data points than we do about both Heinicke and the college prospects.  So I'll ride with whatever they do and I'll judge them by the results versus how it matches my opinion when it goes down.  So if they decide Heinicke for example is the guy. OK I'll ride with it.  As for my take, they better be right.    Whatever they do, they better be right. Of all the potential scenarios, I'll judge them the most harshly if they skip a QB in this draft and Heinicke shows to be a one year wonder, Kolb, Cassel, Colt Mccoy, Keenum type. 

 

I've had Rivera's back just about 100% but if he skips Qb in this draft and doubles down on Heinicke and Heinicke regresses -- then I'll become a loud critic of him at least on this decision.  If on the other hand, it works, cool, I'll applaud it. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, method man said:

I still can’t believe the Eagles will have 3 1st round picks. Roseman is what Allen would be if he were competent. Enough competence to offset the douchebaggery

 

they know how to build assets including picks for their players including ripping us off in a trade.  It's nuts that under Dan's whole regime the most they ever got for a player was a third round pick and that was for Trent.  Depending on the report, Bruce blew it as for Trent where if he traded him during the season he could have gotten a 2nd and a 3rd or a first rounder.  But nope.  Spite was more important to him than trade capital.  They let it fester to the next off season where Trent's value was diminished because a team in contention didn't need him and there were more fish in the sea since it was the off season.  Bruce blew off a high first rounder and change for Kirk because he'd rather Kyle not have him and preferred to rent him for another season.  It's criminal how bad a GM Bruce was along with Dan's bonehead moves over the years.  The Eagles have accumulated plenty of high picks over the years.  We on the other hand piss them away. 

 

 

 

No surprise, below

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[ThomasRoane]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

they know how to build assets including picks for their players including ripping us off in a trade.  It's nuts that under Dan's whole regime the most they ever got for a player was a third round pick and that was for Trent.  Depending on the report, Bruce blew it as for Trent where if he traded him during the season he could have gotten a 2nd and a 3rd or a first rounder.  But nope.  Spite was more important to him than trade capital.  They let it fester to the next off season where Trent's value was diminished because a team in contention didn't need him and there were more fish in the sea since it was the off season.  Bruce blew off a high first rounder and change for Kirk because he'd rather Kyle not have him and preferred to rent him for another season.  It's criminal how bad a GM Bruce was along with Dan's bonehead moves over the years.  The Eagles have accumulated plenty of high picks over the years.  We on the other hand piss them away. 

 

 

 

No surprise, below

 

 

 

 

He who should not be named was more destructive for the franchise than Cerrato.  Who just cost the team $.  

 

All Rattler has is a cool name.  He's not NFL material.  Couldn't even hold off a freshman.  I highly doubt he'll end up at USC with Riley. 

[Rolo Tomasie]

Chiming in to say that picking a QB in round one just because you need better play at QB is not a good strategy. You scout all of the college QBs and you determine which one is worth a first round grade to your team. If none are, then don't force the issue and draft a guy that's likely to be a bust, just so you can say you drafted a big-name QB.

To me, Willis and Pickett are fringey, probably not first round talents and NONE of the rest of them are even close to first round, including Corral, Howell, Ridder, etc

 

Barring incredible changes in the tryouts and pro days and all star bowls, I would not draft a QB in the first round. don't see any of these guys as likely NFL playoff caliber starters. Yeah I know we need more talent at QB badly, but you can't force it when it just isn't there.

 

I find guys like Zappe, Brennan Armstrong, and Grayson McCall in lower rounds as more appealing investments.

Zappe looks really good on film. I know the talent level is iffy and he is a little short and older (listed as 6'1" and will turn 23 around the time of the draft), but he has arm talent, knows his reads in that offense, and can run a bit too. Built thick so he should be able to take some hits.

 

Not as enthusiastic about a late round flier on Haener or McKee or Strong. I just don't see the real upside there.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Rolo Tomasie

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

All Rattler has is a cool name.  He's not NFL material.  Couldn't even hold off a freshman.  I highly doubt he'll end up at USC with Riley. 

 

Highly doubt?  I'd be stunned since Riley is the dude who benched him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

Chiming in to say that picking a QB in round one just because you need better play at QB is not a good strategy.

 

 

Agree.  But i am not sure who is advocating picking one for that reason?

 

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

 You scout all of the college QBs and you determine which one is worth a first round grade to your team. If none are, then don't force the issue and draft a guy that's likely to be a bust, just so you can say you drafted a big-name QB.

 

 

Yep.  Of course.  The same point applies to any spot.  I don't think you'll get a debate on this either.  I doubt its something we have to worry about as a point of contention in the FO.

 

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

 

To me, Willis and Pickett are fringey, probably not first round talents and NONE of the rest of them are even close to first round, including Corral, Howell, Ridder, etc

 

 

Disagree.  But if I felt the way you did.  I wouldn't want to touch a QB in the first round either.  So within the context of how you see things, i'd be against a QB, too.

 

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

 

I find guys like Zappe, Brennan Armstrong, and Grayson McCall in lower rounds as more appealing investments.

Zappe looks really good on film. I know the talent level is iffy and he is a little short and older (listed as 6'1" and will turn 23 around the time of the draft), but he has arm talent, knows his reads in that offense, and can run a bit too. Built thick so he should be able to take some hits.

 

Zappe is my next favorite at the moment after Haener as for the mid round types.  I've talked about him a little.   They probably both end up just backups but if If I am taking a flier right noow, it would be either Haener (who I see you don't like) or Zappe (who I see you do like.)

 

1 hour ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

 

Not as enthusiastic about a late round flier on Haener or McKee or Strong. I just don't see the real upside there.

 

 

McKee I haven't loved.  Strong IMO won't be a late rounder.  He IMO has a better shot at being in the first round than a late rounder.  Strong IMO has plenty of upside -- heck I wish Haener or Zappe had Strong's arm.  Conversely i wish Strong had Zappe and Haener's pocket movement and ability to make off platform throws. 

 

It should be an interesting draft, I was just listening to Mike Garafalo on 106.7 who said talking to FOs he's hearing they see this QB class as better than the media thinks it is.  That's the 2nd national reporter who has suggested they are hearing front offices aren't down on this group compared to how the Mel Kiper draft media types see this class. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Highly doubt?  I'd be stunned since Riley is the dude who benched him. 

Mighty fall from grace this year for Rattler. @zskinsopening post for the thread has him ranked 4th. 

[PartyPosse]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Highly doubt?  I'd be stunned since Riley is the dude who benched him. 

Even though he entered the transfer protocol, it almost would have made too much sense for him to stay since Riley is leaving and probably taking Caleb with him.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Even though he entered the transfer protocol, it almost would have made too much sense for him to stay since Riley is leaving and probably taking Caleb with him.

 

Agree.  Already rumors that Caleb is going to USC.  I guess you never know maybe Riley patched things up with Rattler but I suspect considering he benched him, they don't love each other.  Having said that I guess you never know?

[Going Commando]

Riley will get that 5 star from Los Alamitos to go with him to USC.  In the meantime, he'll have Jaxson Dart and Kedon Slovis to coach so I don't know if Caleb Williams will follow him to such a crowded QB room.  But if I were Riley, I would want Williams to follow me.

[KDawg]

The single biggest upgrade this team can make that immediately helps is at free safety. Bobby McCain has been horrendous. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The single biggest upgrade this team can make that immediately helps is at free safety. Bobby McCain has been horrendous. 

I am not a McCain guy. I also want a FS. But I’ve noticed Rivera tends to single out McCain of late as one of their unheralded better players on the team so I don’t get the impression he’s on the hot seat.

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a McCain guy. I also want a FS. But I’ve noticed Rivera tends to single out McCain of late as one of their unheralded better players on the team so I don’t get the impression he’s on the hot seat.

Rivera probably likes his intangibles, but he's very limited athletically. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[httrcirca87]

wrong thread

Edited November 30, 2021 by httrcirca87
wrong thread

[Going Commando]

By God Taylor is doing it.  He's leading us to the playoffs.  We don't need a QB, this dude is our guy.

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

The single biggest upgrade this team can make that immediately helps is at free safety. Bobby McCain has been horrendous. 

He lost me on the effort he gave on that blown coverage on Seattle's first scoring drive.  It was a wounded duck right over his head, immediately clear that he ****ed up bad, and he couldn't even be bothered to give pursuit.  He's a turd.

[DWinzit]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

By God Taylor is doing it.  He's leading us to the playoffs.  We don't need a QB, this dude is our guy.

He is and could see them spending a lot of time studying up the 2nd and 3rd tier QB's to sit and learn behind him

 

Definitely need to address the defensive back 7 and a RB.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by DWinzit

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a McCain guy. I also want a FS. But I’ve noticed Rivera tends to single out McCain of late as one of their unheralded better players on the team so I don’t get the impression he’s on the hot seat.

Imagine if we drafted Moehrig who PFF has graded very highly.