2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Going to be interesting with Lincoln Riley leaving OU to go to USC if anyone goes with him… like Williams…

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Warhead36]

I don't like when QBs main highlight photos are them running the ball...

[DWinzit]

It's nice to see good players planning to play in the Senior Bowl. Last years game was the best in years, loaded with talent

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

37 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

It's nice to see good players planning to play in the Senior Bowl. Last years game was the best in years, loaded with talent

 

I know right?

 

Senior Bowl recently overhauled their staff, new GM or whatever title is used for that position, different recruitment strategies, different PR/Media, etc.  It seems to be paying off massively.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd add as I've said previously, Nagy seems to have a knack of ferreting out the QBs with special intangibles including Mac Jones and Herbert.  And no its that he touts everyone the same way.  So I am taking his praise this time uber seriously.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I get the fun of passing over QB in the first round of the draft.  But its something I have a hard time warming up to.  I think its a recipe for continuing on our 30 year path of mediocrity with some occasional relevance of slight highs with more lows.  But to play along if I went that way. 

 

I haven't watched Lloyd yet.  But I have watched some Nakobe Dean and read about him a little too.   The dude is a missle. Watching him he reminds me in some ways of London Fletcher.  He's violent, explosive.  Rarely misses tackles.  He knows how to get low and wrap guys down.  Has a relentless motor and can go get the QB, Parsons style.   Goes well sideline to sideline.  Can cover.   Physically he's a bit light but he looks all muscle -- stacked-strong. 

 

To add to the Fletcher comparison.  Like Fletcher, Dean is supposedly super smart.  He's a mechanical engineering major.  Kirby said when he was hurt and couldn't play for a bit, Dean would call the offensive plays and defensive counter point to it from the sideline.  Also billed as a leader

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

Dean is the type of player Rivera and JDR  have been looking for. I can just hear the ****ing about them selecting another defender with the first round selection

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Dean is the type of player Rivera and JDR  have been looking for. I can just hear the ****ing about them selecting another defender with the first round selection

 

Yeah Dean or by the description I've read here and elsewhere Lloyd would fit the profile of what I think they are looking for in a Mike even though he somewhat fits a weakside profile too.  Jamin to me is more of a weakside LB and they are somewhat trying to fit a square in a round hole.  Maybe I am wrong.  Will see. 

 

In a vaccum, I'd love Dean or Lloyd judging by what I am reading about him.  But I think we got to swing at QB unless Heinicke proves somehow definitvely that he's a top half of the league QB -- I guess its possible but i have a hard time just reflexively buying a dude with his kid of arm strength can be a franchise QB but still I am keep my mind open for him being an exception to that rule.

 

I get the idea that just drafting a QB in this draft doesn't guarantee either that you get a franchise QB. So don't force a pick, let the draft come to you, etc -- ala their approach in the last draft.   But they can't IMO just keep punting on this.  Also if they punt on this and they have a down season next year -- good luck Rivera on peddling hope.  He's going to sell it by saying like most teams in a rebuild they take their big shot at a QB in season 4?  That would come off beyond laughable.   So my point is Rivera is a bit on the spot.  And if he for example bets on Heinicke and skips QBs this off season, he better be right.  Otherwiswe he IMO will deserve the scathing criticism that will come his way. 

 

For me enough is enough trying to be a league outlier as becoming a consistent winning organization without that top half QB.  It's not 1995 anymore.  It's not even 2005 anymore.  I think we got to keep swinging until we get that guy.  But that's me.😀.   It is less fun to think of the draft this year so much as to being colored by the QB spot early but I think it is what it is.  But will see?

 

I've been a you need a QB to win kind of guy for a long time versus build the killer roster and plug the QB where the QB doesn't have to be that hot because the supporting cast will carry them.  But I am really doubling down on it now.  I feel more intense about it now.  Last year actually I felt a little less intense about it.

 

I believe in the build a roster >>>> find that QB mindset pre salary cap.  The reason why IMO it doesn't work now to create a consistent winner -- albeit you can get flashes like Denver had temporarily, Jacksonville had one year, etc -- is because it costs too much money to keep an All Star supporting cast.  So its not that I disagree that you can load Jacksonville with defensive talent and make a run one season with Bortles.  Or Denver can have a one off year with Peyton game managing along with a killer defense.  Lightening in the bottle seasons are definitely in play without the QB.   But if its consistency....

 

Some say its the Qb which isn't affordable.  But to me the less affordable task is maintaining the killer supporting cast.   Or said differently, you have a better shot at replacing name that position player you lose for whatever reason in the draft.  Much harder to replace a Dak Prescot type in the draft.  

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

It's not like we don't invest in the QB position. We have heavily. We just miss. Last year was such a blown opportunity and may define Rons tenure here. Missed the QB for a sup par LBer, then forced into drafting a QB in a weaker class and missing out on the better LBers. I hope I'm wrong. 

 

There are really too many variables to figure out right now, especially draft position. If we're above 20, that means Heinicke balled out and we could draft a LBer, which could still be there, but Lloyd and Dean both seem like teen picks. If we draft early teens, we are forced to go QB.

 

There will also be some possible wildcard teams in the QB hunt like the Steelers, Browns, Broncos, Saints and Falcons.

 

I do not like the idea of selling out for a QB in the draft again.

[DWinzit]

TH's play over the next few weeks will determine whether they must swing for the fence for a QB in the first round. Even if he does ball out, IMO they still grab a QB by the 2nd round. 

 

[Going Commando]

Dean is a beast.  He might be better than any of the linebackers in last year's class, and that's saying something.  He's also two years younger than Lloyd I think.  But Lloyd is better than him.  Lloyd is the next great NFL linebacker and a Roquan Smith/Luke Kuechly level prospect.  As good as Jordan Davis, Nakobe Dean, Aidan Hutchinson, and Kayvon Thibedeaux are, Lloyd is the best defensive player in the class IMO.  This is his third straight season of beastly production, and the only reason he won't clean up the off-season awards is because Will Anderson is the second coming of Derrick Thomas and is somehow an even better player than Lloyd.

 

I like Lloyd for us because he is a former WR and Safety with the full range of coverage ability and he can play in the stack or line up at DE.  He's a full sized LB and doesn't really have any weaknesses or limitations.  And his game against Stanford is one of the most holistically dominant performances I've ever seen from a LBer prospect, if you want to see what a good Devin Lloyd game looks like, watch that one.  This kid is how RR gets his next Urlacher/Kuechly.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's not like we don't invest in the QB position. We have heavily. We just miss. Last year was such a blown opportunity and may define Rons tenure here. Missed the QB for a sup par LBer, then forced into drafting a QB in a weaker class and missing out on the better LBers. I hope I'm wrong. 

 

There are really too many variables to figure out right now, especially draft position. If we're above 20, that means Heinicke balled out and we could draft a LBer, which could still be there, but Lloyd and Dean both seem like teen picks. If we draft early teens, we are forced to go QB.

 

There will also be some possible wildcard teams in the QB hunt like the Steelers, Browns, Broncos, Saints and Falcons.

 

I do not like the idea of selling out for a QB in the draft again.

 

Everyone gives it a shot but I don't think we've had a smart approach to it for reasons I've expressed too many times. 

 

But more on point to my point here.  I wish I could find the artlcle but Roseman once talked about the Eagles being in a bad place at QB after McNabb retired and their game plan was to keep swinging and swinging a lot until they landed the plane.   They drafted Kolb towards the end of McNab's run.  Traded McNabb.  Got Bradford.  Traded Bradford.  Traded twice up in the draft to get Wentz.  Then used a high pick for Hurts.  Traded Wentz.    They were in constant motion.  Maybe they were too much in motion.  But keep swinging IMO.

 

The fact that Campbell, Ramsey, Haskins weren't the goods was no shocker IMO.  And trading for good but not great QBs at the tail end of their careers failing was no shocker either.  IMO the only swing for the fences move was RG3.  

 

And as for selling out for a QB in the draft.   I don't see the "again" part of this.  We hardly ever sell out let alone do it again.  And in this draft I don't think you got to sell out.   I am not advocating giving up a ton of draft capital.  My gut is there is so little consensus on these guys that one who is attractive ala Mac Jones last year will fall to the mid first. 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Dean is a beast.  He might be better than any of the linebackers in last year's class, and that's saying something.  He's also two years younger than Lloyd I think.  But Lloyd is better than him.  Lloyd is the next great NFL linebacker and a Roquan Smith/Luke Kuechly level prospect.  As good as Jordan Davis, Nakobe Dean, Aidan Hutchinson, and Kayvon Thibedeaux are, Lloyd is the best defensive player in the class IMO.  This is his third straight season of beastly production, and the only reason he won't clean up the off-season awards is because Will Anderson is the second coming of Derrick Thomas and is somehow an even better player than Lloyd.

 

I like Lloyd for us because he is a former WR and Safety with the full range of coverage ability and he can play in the stack or line up at DE.  He's a full sized LB and doesn't really have any weaknesses or limitations.  And his game against Stanford is one of the most holistically dominant performances I've ever seen from a LBer prospect, if you want to see what a good Devin Lloyd game looks like, watch that one.  This kid is how RR gets his next Urlacher/Kuechly.

So if we were to draft Lloyd or Dean, I assume they go in the middle. Holcomb stays at Will and Davis moves to Sam?

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Dean is a beast.  He might be better than any of the linebackers in last year's class, and that's saying something.  He's also two years younger than Lloyd I think.  But Lloyd is better than him.  Lloyd is the next great NFL linebacker and a Roquan Smith/Luke Kuechly level prospect.  As good as Jordan Davis, Nakobe Dean, Aidan Hutchinson, and Kayvon Thibedeaux are, Lloyd is the best defensive player in the class IMO.  This is his third straight season of beastly production, and the only reason he won't clean up the off-season awards is because Will Anderson is the second coming of Derrick Thomas and is somehow an even better player than Lloyd.

 

I like Lloyd for us because he is a former WR and Safety with the full range of coverage ability and he can play in the stack or line up at DE.  He's a full sized LB and doesn't really have any weaknesses or limitations.  And his game against Stanford is one of the most holistically dominant performances I've ever seen from a LBer prospect, if you want to see what a good Devin Lloyd game looks like, watch that one.  This kid is how RR gets his next Urlacher/Kuechly.

 

High praise.  I'll get to watching him.  I just never watch Utah.  I've been watching almost purely ACC, SEC, Big 10 with a little Big 12. 

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

So if we were to draft Lloyd or Dean, I assume they go in the middle. Holcomb stays at Will and Davis moves to Sam?

 

Dean is going to be limited in his alignments by his size.  Lloyd can play anywhere, and I think the key with him is to move him around.  He needs to be spending a lot of time on the edge because you need to utilize his rushing ability to get the most out of him.  He's got 8 sacks and 20 something TFLs this year, and a lot if that comes from playing outside.  But he also has the capability to play in the middle and take on climbing guards and play downhill through the A gaps.  I would use Lloyd more as a rusher than coverage defender on pass downs, but he can play coverage too.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Dean is going to be limited in his alignments by his size.  Lloyd can play anywhere, and I think the key with him is to move him around.  He needs to be spending a lot of time on the edge because you need to utilize his rushing ability to get the most out of him.  He's got 8 sacks and 20 something TFLs this year, and a lot if that comes from playing outside.  But he also has the capability to play in the middle and take on climbing guards and play downhill through the A gaps.  I would use Lloyd more as a rusher than coverage defender on pass downs, but he can play coverage too.

Exactly what our defense is missing is a rush backer. Holcomb is pretty good in coverage and Davis is improving, but neither seem to be overly impactful getting to the QB. Collins has helped that.

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

High praise.  I'll get to watching him.  I just never watch Utah.  I've been watching almost purely ACC, SEC, Big 10 with a little Big 12. 

 

They've been on TV a surprising amount this year, but it's almost always late for East coasters.  I watch a lot of Pac 12 games because I like their network and the late games are a good time for me because that's usually the point in the day where I don't have to do anything else and can just sit down and watch.

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I do not like the idea of selling out for a QB in the draft again.

 

I'm a Heinicke fan and I'm rooting for him to work out.  That's what is driving my desire to get one of the special defensive prospects in the first round.  This is such a unique class where Davis/Hutchinson/Thibedeaux/Hamilton/Lloyd are basically clear cut future All Pros and it feels necessary to come away with one of them if we have a chance to draft them.  I can probably talk myself into giving Heinicke at least another year if we got one of them.

 

The only QBs I really like from this class are Willis and Ridder as they are the only two I'm pretty sure are upgrades over Heinicke, but I'm also not desperate for either prospect.  Right now Ridder seems gettable in the second round, so that path might not be incompatible with getting one of the blue moon defenders in the first.  If Willis is available at our natural first, then yeah, draft him.  He's the pick with the highest possible upside in the class for us.  But I wouldn't chase him and I think he's going to be gone when we pick because I think we're going to win another four games or so.

[KDawg]

RE: QB

 

If we can get a top 3-4 QB in this draft without selling the farm, we should do it. Even if we think Heinicke is the guy.

 

Having said that, the more we win the more difficult that is going to become. Drafting a guy or trading the farm for the 4th QB on our board is borderline heresy. If we were going to trade up the 2021 NFL draft was the year. 

 

So while I am all about the QB train, even with a successful Heinicke (trade asset later is never a bad thing for either player)... I think talking other prospects is incredibly important. Lloyd is a monster and a guy I love to watch. There's a few DBs that have stood out to me, too. But I need to see more from them. There are some good OL. Jalen Wydermyer. Receivers. Running backs. There's so much out there. I can't wait to really dive into some film of these guys and get a good feel for this stuff. 

[Going Commando]

If we do draft at like 20, I think at least one of Lloyd, Hamilton, or Davis will be there for us. Dean too.  Maybe all four due to low position value.  LBers drop on draft day, Hamilton has been injured on top of having low position value, and 1 techs like Davis rarely make it into the first round.  Do any of us really want to pick Sam Howell or Kenny Pickett or a Big 10 skill player over a future All Pro defender?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we do draft at like 20, I think at least one of Lloyd, Hamilton, or Davis will be there for us. Dean too.  Maybe all four due to low position value.  LBers drop on draft day, Hamilton has been injured on top of having low position value, and 1 techs like Davis rarely make it into the first round.  Do any of us really want to pick Sam Howell or Kenny Pickett or a Big 10 skill player over a future All Pro defender?

 

Sam Howell won't be there at 20. 

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we do draft at like 20, I think at least one of Lloyd, Hamilton, or Davis will be there for us. Dean too.  Maybe all four due to low position value.  LBers drop on draft day, Hamilton has been injured on top of having low position value, and 1 techs like Davis rarely make it into the first round.  Do any of us really want to pick Sam Howell or Kenny Pickett or a Big 10 skill player over a future All Pro defender?

 

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that both Dean and Lloyd will be top 12 picks.  The year of the Devins (White & Bush) resulted in both being top 10 picks (Pittsburgh traded up for Bush).  With the lack of consensus on QBs, I can see teams passing on risky QBs for the more sure defenders.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

They've been on TV a surprising amount this year, but it's almost always late for East coasters.  I watch a lot of Pac 12 games because I like their network and the late games are a good time for me because that's usually the point in the day where I don't have to do anything else and can just sit down and watch.

 

I recall you watch a lot of PAC 12.    I used to back in the Darnold-Rosen days but not in recent years.  I've oddly watched my share of Nevada and here and there Fresno State (as for the west coast) in watching QBs.   I guess I am mostly an SEC-ACC freak and try to catch some Alabama games in person every year but haven't done it since COVID.  I am tempted to go to the Orange Bowl depending on who plays.