2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

One of my favorite college players for two years running.  It pains me that the Eagles traded down, picked up another #1 and still got Devonta. 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Willis looks like QB1 to me, and I think a consensus is going to form around him as we get closer to the spring.  His talent is clearly a cut above the rest of the QBs in the class.  And Liberty is an FBS school, ND State is a power program in the FCS but Liberty plays an FBS schedule.  It's not comparable, and his resume is better than Lance's.  Lance played one game in his final season and he didn't really look good in it.  Last year Liberty beat VT and Syracuse and only lost by one to a top 25 NC State team, and then beat a top 10 Coastal Carolina team in their bowl game.  This year they  haven't been as good, but he's throwing the ball better and putting up bigger numbers individually.  I've acknowledged he's loose with the ball, but those three pick games are also the only INTs he's thrown this year and he is making way more plays than mistakes.  They're not going to kill his draft stock.  Plenty of guys have gone high in the draft after throwing way more picks in college than Willis has.

I wasnt high on Lance either though. In fact I hated him as a first round pick. And he was unable to beat out an average vet for the job than got hurt. Not saying Lance is a bust. But if I had to bet on it I would bet he will be. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by clskinsfan

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

GROUP OF FIVE: MALIK WILLIS, LIBERTY FLAMES | 91.8

It was a rough afternoon for Liberty and Willis, as they didn’t stand a chance against Ole Miss. Still, Willis retains his top spot. The Flames’ pass protection has been below average all season — they sit at 83rd in the country in PFF's pass-blocking efficiency metric — and it was at its worst against the Rebels. They ranked 113th in the same metric in Week 10, which explains Willis’ poor showing to a degree. For Willis to still be topping the charts while playing behind this offensive line is a testament to his ability.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-highest-graded-power-five-group-of-5-every-position-college-football-week-10-2021

[Redskins Reparations]

I am curious if everyone is still on board with drafting a QB with our first rounder considering how down this years QB class is.  I doubt we are able to trade down and if we draft best player available that person might be Notre Dame FS Kyle Hamilton which also fills a position of need.  

[Warhead36]

19 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I am curious if everyone is still on board with drafting a QB with our first rounder considering how down this years QB class is.  I doubt we are able to trade down and if we draft best player available that person might be Notre Dame FS Kyle Hamilton which also fills a position of need.  

I'm not taking another defensive player with a top pick.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Remember how many screamed for Fields last year and told everyone who said no because OSU QBs don’t translate well to the NFL that they were just suffering bad feelings from Haskins? 
 

Yeah about that. 

[Stormy]

Fields wasn’t my top choice, but I would have loved to grab him. He is improving of late, and to my eye already looks 1000% better than any prospect we’ve drafted at the QB position in the last 2 decades. 

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Remember how many screamed for Fields last year and told everyone who said no because OSU QBs don’t translate well to the NFL that they were just suffering bad feelings from Haskins? 
 

Yeah about that. 

Update: They were just suffering from bad feelings.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Remember how many screamed for Fields last year and told everyone who said no because OSU QBs don’t translate well to the NFL that they were just suffering bad feelings from Haskins? 
 

Yeah about that. 

 

Fields looks pretty decent now...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Renegade7

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Remember how many screamed for Fields last year and told everyone who said no because OSU QBs don’t translate well to the NFL that they were just suffering bad feelings from Haskins? 
 

Yeah about that. 

Because he had one decent game?

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Remember how many screamed for Fields last year and told everyone who said no because OSU QBs don’t translate well to the NFL that they were just suffering bad feelings from Haskins? 
 

Yeah about that. 

 

6 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Update: They were just suffering from bad feelings.

You came in here to post that and then he played well. I’ll say what I said to you in the other thread:

 

THIS is why I get nervous about this franchise drafting a guy who needs time to develop. He’s started, what, 5 games? And you’re already throwing the “I was right” card.

 

The point about not putting all QBs from the same school in the same bucket still stands by the way. It’s really silly. Each prospect is their own entity. Evaluate them as so. 
 

The rookie all look fairly pedestrian. The NFL is complicated and a lot faster than college. It takes some time.

 

Ultimately you may wind up right. And when that happens I’ll be the first to say, “I was wrong”. But it takes more than 5 games. Pump the brakes.

Edited November 9, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

You came in here to post that and then he played well. I’ll say what I said to you in the other thread:

 

THIS is why I get nervous about this franchise drafting a guy who needs time to develop. He’s started, what, 5 games? And you’re already throwing the “I was right” card.

 

The point about not putting all QBs from the same school in the same bucket still stands by the way. It’s really silly. Each prospect is their own entity. Evaluate them as so. 
 

The rookie all look fairly pedestrian. The NFL is complicated and a lot faster than college. It takes some time.

 

Ultimately you may wind up right. And when that happens I’ll be the first to say, “I was wrong”. But it takes more than 5 games. Pump the brakes.

 

 

For sure, the short samples overreactions make that point.  Forget QB, I've seen people do it that players from other positions, with just a half of game play. 

 

Jogginggod was by a mile the most salty for them not taking a QB and unless I am losing my mind I recall multiple posts where he wanted them to trade up for Fields, now he piles on him, unless I am confusing him for Lance.

 

So yeah there is definitely a contingent of fans that not only want a rookie QB but also want instant hit the ground running, no growing pains allowed.   

 

That would mean they would have already checked out on Lawrence saying he'd way overrated and a loser.  Fields is too raw and will never get it since he played at Ohio State.  Zach Wilson makes too many mistakes and will never learn -- its over for him, he's the next Darnold.

 

Mac Jones would be the only survivor.  The irony for that is I don't recall too many people agreeing (I recall you were ok with him) with me that Mac was the goods.  I posted a ton on Mac and got more pushback on him than there was on the other QBs.

 

So I definitely agree with you about the fans paitence.  I guess where I disagree, I am not so sure there is a Mac Jones level pro ready QB.   My guy would be Matt Corral.  but his offense is so driven by RPOs and he relies so much on his legs and his frame isn't that big that I do think even with him you got an adjustment period.   I think you got some growing pains with all these guys.  Fans are just going to have to suck it up and deal with it.  It is what it is.  It definitely though sells the idea of them signing a veteran, too.  

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

So I definitely agree with you about the fans paitence.  I guess where I disagree, I am not so sure there is a Mac Jones level pro ready QB.   My guy would be Matt Corral.  but his offense is so driven by RPOs and he relies so much on his legs and his frame isn't that big that I do think even with him you got an adjustment period.   I think you got some growing pains with all these guys.  Fans are just going to have to suck it up and deal with it.  It is what it is.  It definitely though sells the idea of them signing a veteran, too.  

 

No disagreements with any of that assessment. 

 

Except maybe that fans are going to have to suck it up. And I don't disagree with your statement. I just don't think a lot of our fanbase can. They'll turn on a guy quick and not look back. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

No disagreements with any of that assessment. 

 

Except maybe that fans are going to have to suck it up. And I don't disagree with your statement. I just don't think a lot of our fanbase can. They'll turn on a guy quick and not look back. 

 

Sadly, I don't see any way around it.  Just thinking out loud digesting these QBs, some think Pickett's the most pro ready.  Maybe he is from the standpoint of experience, etc.  But what if he looks like just a guy?  My concern about him is his ceiling, what if he just looks "meh"?  Are people going to stand that?

 

But yeah I agree its going to likely be a painful next season as far as rookies go.  Hopefuly they can strike gold with a veteran where the rookie doesn't have to play. 

 

As for Fields, Sheehan is talking about it now, he thought he flashed again last night.  So did I.   Yes the first half was rough at times but he bounced back.   But people need to run out the script with talented rookie QBs.   

Edited November 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

We've got a seriously whiney bunch of fans and they're gonna **** about everything any way, while a few of us are patient and objective. 

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sadly, I don't see any way around it.  Just thinking out loud digesting these QBs, some think Pickett's the most pro ready.  Maybe he is from the standpoint of experience, etc.  But what if he looks like just a guy?  My concern about him is his ceiling, what if he just looks "meh"?  Are people going to stand that?

 

But yeah I agree its going to likely be a painful next season as far as rookies go.  Hopefuly they can strike gold with a veteran where the rookie doesn't have to play. 

 

As for Fields, Sheehan is talking about it now, he thought he flashed again last night.  So did I.   Yes the first half was rough at times but he bounced back.   But people need to run out the script with talented rookie QBs.   

 

All in all Fields has looked good the last two weeks. He has had poor stretches in both games. But he's looked overall solid. He showed flashes in moments earlier in the season. He is on track.

 

I believe Lawrence is as well. Jones obviously.

 

But it takes time for these guys to go from "fresh NFL rookie" to "veteran type play". Many people (not just our fanbase) want instant gratification. It's the way our society functions today. 

 

And at times that absolutely hinders development of these guys. Yes, you'd hope they are mentally strong enough to take the criticism. But a 20 year old getting destroyed from all angles everywhere they go is a hit to the pride and ego and of course the confidence.

 

To develop a guy that guy has to be fostered appropriately. Doesn't mean you can't criticize (as you know). But it means having support and knowing you have it.

 

Our fanbase will destroy one of these guys. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Our fanbase will destroy one of these guys. 

 

lol, maybe so.     I am afraid for all of these prospects in the draft in that context.   . 

 

I see guys with higher upside than Mac Jones but I don't see a guy that hits the ground running from day 1 like him.  IMO the reason why he's been good from the jump is he was already polished as far as going through progressions (something that Fields for example is still learning to master), his accuracy wasn't just about a sweet spot or two, and he already had sophisitication as to manipulating defenses (safeties) with his eyes and body language.  I talked about that a ton in the previous draft thread.  I don't see a QB in this class, Pickett included, who has all of those variables working for them the same way. 

 

For example, I like Corral's upside better than Jones.  I like his arm talent and mobility over Jones.  But IMO he isn't as polished on some key variables that allow him to hit the ground running to the same extent as Jones.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, maybe so.     I am afraid for all of these prospects in the draft in that context.   . 

 

I see guys with higher upside than Mac Jones but I don't see a guy that hits the ground running from day 1 like him.  IMO the reason why he's been good from the jump is he was already polished as far as going through progressions (something that Fields for example is still learning to master), his accuracy wasn't just about a sweet spot or two, and he already had sophisitication as to manipulating defenses (safeties) with his eyes and body language.  I talked about that a ton in the previous draft thread.  I don't see a QB in this class, Pickett included, who has all of those variables working for them the same way. 

 

For example, I like Corral's upside better than Jones.  I like his arm talent and mobility over Jones.  But IMO he isn't as polished on some key variables that allow him to hit the ground running to the same extent as Jones.

A guy like Willis better rush for 2000 yards if he struggles with the passing aspect or he’s going to get “Tarvaris Jackson” comps one game in.

 

In a vacuum I love Willis as a prospect despite his obvious need for development in a bunch of spots. He’s got a lot of the intangible stuff. But he’s missing the refinement and processing aspect. A guy like that is going to come here with high expectations with people saying he’s Vick and not understanding that’s his upside and not where he is.

 

Corral will struggle, too. But not anywhere to the same level.

 

I think Howell is pretty pro ready to be honest. But he’ll need some time as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

A guy like Willis better rush for 2000 yards if he struggles with the passing aspect or he’s going to get “Tarvaris Jackson” comps one game in.

 

In a vacuum I love Willis as a prospect despite his obvious need for development in a bunch of spots. He’s got a lot of the intangible stuff. But he’s missing the refinement and processing aspect. A guy like that is going to come here with high expectations with people saying he’s Vick and not understanding that’s his upside and not where he is.

 

Corral will struggle, too. But not anywhere to the same level.

 

I think Howell is pretty pro ready to be honest. But he’ll need some time as well.

 

Talking about emotion.  Part of the reason why I keep saying I need to watch 5 full games of each player is to help keep my own emotions even keeled.  Sometimes if I flick from one game to another, I might just happen to catch a good play or a bad one that can overstate a feeling in my mind while watching the player.   

 

And again I like to give volsmet some credit for making me more patient as far as evaluations of a QB because he pushed me to watch Haskins patiently back in 2019, he wasn't a fan of his, but its not so much about that point but he encouraged me to increase my sample size to see how they do on various tasks -- accuracy for everything, not just a sweet spot, pocket presence under pressure, footwork/consistency when throwing on the move among other things.   That approach has worked for me of late, where I've gotten more hits than misses.  But the key for me is to spend the time doing it.  The only QB I've done the full 5 games is of Corral.  I've seen enough of him.  I am sold.  But not sold from the frame work of him hitting the ground running. 

 

I am somewhat half way in on Howell, Pickett, Ridder, Strong.  2 games on Willis. I've started to watch some of the next tier QB prospects, which I'll talk about soon.    I've focused so much on QBs, I am behind on other position players compared to usual.

 

And as I've said a ton, I want to learn as much as I can who these guys are as individuals.  I am going to pay more attention to Jim Nagy who has some of these guys in his building.  He nailed it that Mac Jones and Herbert are special dudes.  He could see that by how they prepared and interacted with others.   The QB spot IMO is the most personality driven one of all spots.   Committment-work ethic-leadership-toughness.  Not all these guys are build alike on that front.  It's tough obviously for us to know.  But if you hear one after the other pump a player up on that front and conversely a player is often challenged on that front -- there is usually smoke to the fire.

 

As for Howell, I like him more than most do from what I've watched.  So i am not on a different page from you.    I got to watch him more though.  

 

[Going Commando]

Who cares about what our dumb fans post on social media?  It's the coaches who need to be patient and commit to the development of their prospect.  That's why I am arguing that the entire staff needs to be 100% wed to the kid, their fate going hand in hand with his.  No hedging.  Nobody survives if he fails, GMs included. If they do sign a vet to start over him early, then it needs to be an old guy with absolutely zero future, not a reclamation that you can talk yourself into after the first four turnover game by the rookie, or when you realize he's taking longer to go through his reads than you want.  And for god sakes you don't spend any money on that vet either, you spend it on players who will actually help your prospect.  It was horrendous team building to have over a sixth of our cap tied up in Trent and Alex Smith when we drafted Haskins.  Let's not repeat that failure.  The vets I'm talking about are guys like Andy Dalton.  Not Trubisky or Tua or Ryan or Mariota or even Fitzy unless he's signed at like half his current contract.

 

A couple of points I wanted to make in response to various arguments SIP has made:

 

- Chudzinski was a key part of designing Cams offense and rapidly developing him as a passer.  He's the piece of the equation we're missing as well.  I think our current OC is weaker and I'm kind of surprised you guys that are hoping for a young prospect don't feel more angst about Turner and more urgency about upgrading the OC position.

 

- I do believe franchise QBs are products of their situations, and I think there are plenty of guys who had the talent and make up to make it that fail for reasons of timing and bad luck.  In general, I think the prospects who make it all of the way into the first round pedigree are way more similar in talent and make up than they are different.  And most will succeed given the right conditions--which are monstrously difficult to create. And all will fail given the wrong ones.  Injuries and organizational instability and lack of support are the big reasons many fail.  Plenty of guys get the rug pulled out from under them early in their careers and never get a real chance to sell the next FO on them.  In a case like Haskins, his personality outright clashed with Rivera's and it was like they didn't even speak the same language.  This is another reason why it is absolutely essential to wed the fate of your entire FO to the QB prospect.

 

- I followed that Seattle camp battle with Russell Wilson somewhat closely.  Wilson was the hedge btw, Flynn was brought in with the full intention to replace Tarvaris Jackson and be the long term starter, and Wilson was supposed to be a long term project who maybe is your back up down the road.  But Wilson was so shockingly good in camp he won the job outright, and then this is the key point, Seattle dumped Flynn at their first chance to move him.  They cleared the deck for Wilson and went all in with him.  And then they supported Wilson in the classic tried and true formula of surrounding him with a dominant defense and run game and ultra reliable WRs who win right off the line of scrimmage until he was ready to spread his wings as a passer after like four years of training wheels offense.  This is the exact formula we should seek to replicate with our prospect.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

And at times that absolutely hinders development of these guys. Yes, you'd hope they are mentally strong enough to take the criticism. But a 20 year old getting destroyed from all angles everywhere they go is a hit to the pride and ego and of course the confidence.

 

To develop a guy that guy has to be fostered appropriately. Doesn't mean you can't criticize (as you know). But it means having support and knowing you have it.

 

Our fanbase will destroy one of these guys. 

 

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Who cares about what our dumb fans post on social media? 

 

In case you didn't read my post.

[KDawg]

I think posting the same thing in two threads is generally lame but since this pertains to people in both threads:

 

I’m not huge on PFF grades but for those that are… Fields was apparently graded the highest of all QBs in week 9. 
 

Sometimes posting something tremendously silly before you let things play out really can put things in perspective. We’ve all been there. Hopefully this is a case where sometimes perspective wins over emotion.

 

But, even as someone who was all about Fields it’s still too early to even deem that he has “arrived”. It’s just a positive step in his development.

[JoggingGod]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

You came in here to post that and then he played well. I’ll say what I said to you in the other thread:

 

THIS is why I get nervous about this franchise drafting a guy who needs time to develop. He’s started, what, 5 games? And you’re already throwing the “I was right” card.

 

The point about not putting all QBs from the same school in the same bucket still stands by the way. It’s really silly. Each prospect is their own entity. Evaluate them as so. 
 

The rookie all look fairly pedestrian. The NFL is complicated and a lot faster than college. It takes some time.

 

Ultimately you may wind up right. And when that happens I’ll be the first to say, “I was wrong”. But it takes more than 5 games. Pump the brakes.

It doesn't take 5 games to know that the wft should have traded up for him and taken a chance

[KDawg]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

It doesn't take 5 games to know that the wft should have traded up for him and taken a chance

 

I think you're confused what you are arguing against.

 

The poster you originally quoted said he was a bust.

 

I wanted to draft him.