Biden/Harris Legislative/Policy Discussions - Now with a Republican House starting 2023

[Busch1724]

14 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

missed opportunity 

 

13 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

to piss off the poor and middle class 

 

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Everyone pays significantly less in gas tax than in 1993 (the last time it was raised).  All of our cars are much more fuel efficient (about 20% more), and yet, we pay the same amount for every fill-up as we did in 1993 in federal terms.

 

According to this article (See https://itep.org/an-unhappy-anniversary-federal-gas-tax-reaches-25-years-of-stagnation/), we are driving about an extra 60 miles more before a fuel-up vs in 1993 (and the article in about 3 years old).

 

 

Factor in electric vehicles. In PA, Governor Wolf has asked for a commission to look at ways to pay for infrastructure improvements across the state. 

 

At the federal and state levels you're hearing more chatter about eliminating gas taxes and taxing folks by the mile. All of it has to be paid for in some form or function. Not sure what the final  solution is, but I'm in favor of a mileage tax instead of a gas tax. I certainly could be persuaded for a better idea.  

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, Busch1724 said:

 

 

 

 

Factor in electric vehicles. In PA, Governor Wolf has asked for a commission to look at ways to pay for infrastructure improvements across the state. 

 

At the federal and state levels you're hearing more chatter about eliminating gas taxes and taxing folks by the mile. All of it has to be paid for in some form or function. Not sure what the final  solution is, but I'm in favor of a mileage tax instead of a gas tax. I certainly could be persuaded for a better idea.  

 

I li9ke the idea of a millage tax to replace a gas tax. Just throwing out a general question - do you weight it based on size/type of car? The gas tax is punitive to those who use more gas and thus pollute more and they tend to be harder or roads as they also tend to be bigger cars. Do you put cars into categories that combine size and pollution? 

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I li9ke the idea of a millage tax to replace a gas tax. Just throwing out a general question - do you weight it based on size/type of car? The gas tax is punitive to those who use more gas and thus pollute more and they tend to be harder or roads as they also tend to be bigger cars. Do you put cars into categories that combine size and pollution? 

Recall asking here in Florida why it costs more to renew the license plate on my 20 year old F-150 than on my brand new Focus, and was told that the fee is based on the vehicle's weight. 

[The Evil Genius]

11 minutes ago, Larry said:

Recall asking here in Florida why it costs more to renew the license plate on my 20 year old F-150 than on my brand new Focus, and was told that the fee is based on the vehicle's weight. 

 

Interesting. In California, the State usually bases registration and plate costs on:

• Your vehicle type (auto, truck, motorcycle, etc.).
• Your vehicle’s purchase price or declared value.
• The city and/or county you live in.
• The declared vehicle weight and the number of axles your vehicle may have.
• Any special license plates your vehicle may have.

As a former State DOT transportation planner, I know usage fees have been discussed for several decades now. I believe Washington state had a pilot program several years back but don't recall the outcomes. The question that always came up was how you record the mileage. Self reporting? Remember, not all states require annual inspections. 

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

. The question that always came up was how you record the mileage. Self reporting? Remember, not all states require annual inspections. 

Understood. And I assume most places are like Florida, and allow renewal by mail. It's more convenient for the taxpayer, and cheaper for the tax collector. 

Here in Florida, once every 10 years, you're required to get a new plate, not just a sticker. Maybe self reporting, with an inspection when you get the new plate?  (Although right now, they allow a new plate by mail, too.)

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

Recall asking here in Florida why it costs more to renew the license plate on my 20 year old F-150 than on my brand new Focus, and was told that the fee is based on the vehicle's weight. 

 

 

Keep in mind i am just talking out loud here. i am not what the right answer is. = Are you suggesting we use weight to weight (no pun intended) the mileage cost? Right now, the federal excise tax on gas is 18.4 cents/gallon (24.4 cents for diesel). On average, I know each state is different, but on AVERAGE - state and local add appro 34.24 cents/gal (35.89 for diesel). That is a total of 52.64 cents/gallon (60.29 for diesel). 

 

Let's stick with regular gas - So let's say your 20 yo F150 gets 19 mpg (advertised at 17/21). And let's say your brand new Focus gets (assuming 2.0 L ecoboost) averages 26 mpg (advertised at 22 city/30 hwy). That means you pay 2.77 cents/mile for your F150 in tax, but you pay 2.02 for your Focus.

 

I think you need to keep that difference. So that means what, creating vehicle categories that pay different rates? Is it strictly based on mpg? If so, do they use advertised? Your older F150 is much likely to be getting that some mileage. It's very likely lower but could actually be higher. So do you have monitors (holy Big Brother Batman - the righties would have a complete come apart. I can hear it now, "It's communism! The gov is tracking your every move and plans to take you out if get out of line!" LOL) to check the mileage and the gas per mile? I realize I am getting into the woods on this. But it does bring up a lot of questions that would need to be answered. 

12 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Interesting. In California, the State usually bases registration and plate costs on:

• Your vehicle type (auto, truck, motorcycle, etc.).
• Your vehicle’s purchase price or declared value.
• The city and/or county you live in.
• The declared vehicle weight and the number of axles your vehicle may have.
• Any special license plates your vehicle may have.

As a former State DOT transportation planner, I know usage fees have been discussed for several decades now. I believe Washington state had a pilot program several years back but don't recall the outcomes. The question that always came up was how you record the mileage. Self reporting? Remember, not all states require annual inspections. 

 

Inspections would only solve part of the problem even if all states required it. Right now, in GA if you are over a certain age and have a car over a certain age you do not need to get it inspected. 

[skinsmarydu]

As a server in a restaurant, at $2.13+tips...I made more than an LPN, by the hour...granted, I didn't work dinners...it would be even more if I had. 

Stunning. 

[PeterMP]

  

2 hours ago, tshile said:

but otherwise there is some interesting information in there about how McDonald’s has responded, which (I think) you covered almost all of except for the ratio to minimum wage raise increases i added to your post. 

 

A few things:

 

1.  Most studies find the ripple effect from minimum wage increases stop or become unmeasurable at about the 20 percentile level of earners (about $25,000/year).  I don't think there's much evidence that most teachers are having their income affected by increases in minimum wages.

 

2.  They find about 70% pass through.  Prices went up and they've called it that 70% near-full price pass through.  And that's what has made the headlines.  But their data supports that 30% of the minimum wage was paid for some other way (it might not have all been profits).  And other studies have shown that the increase in minimum wage pass-through dissipates with time (which isn't unreasonable.  Companies raise their prices initially, but longer term supply and demand kicks in and prices have to be adjusted accordingly.)

 

So let's not read too much into what is happening here in terms of pass through and what that means to larger work force.

 

3.  I generally believe the best way for the government to deal with this is well paid low skilled work (e.g. pay people to pick up litter) funded by higher taxes at the top.

 

4.  People study fast food because that's where you expect to see the largest effect.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

[The Evil Genius]

Stras and Harper. Generational talents. 🙄

[visionary]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Busch1724]

6 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I li9ke the idea of a millage tax to replace a gas tax. Just throwing out a general question - do you weight it based on size/type of car? The gas tax is punitive to those who use more gas and thus pollute more and they tend to be harder or roads as they also tend to be bigger cars. Do you put cars into categories that combine size and pollution? 

 

Maybe but does that become null and void with electric vehicles? Although I could see weight as a factor since it would cause wear and tear on the roads. I have a Silverado and in PA is considered a Class 2 vehicle which means registration each year is more. 

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I li9ke the idea of a millage tax to replace a gas tax. Just throwing out a general question - do you weight it based on size/type of car? The gas tax is punitive to those who use more gas and thus pollute more and they tend to be harder or roads as they also tend to be bigger cars. Do you put cars into categories that combine size and pollution? 

 

Tractor trailers are a lot of weight and log a lot of miles.  I don't see the point in trying to price cars and suvs differently other then that's what we do now with the gas tax.  We don't have to.

 

If anything, bigger cars that hold more people should get the reverse of getting taxed more in pay by mile.  Less variation in taxes may be more fair.

[visionary]

 

 

[PokerPacker]

Maybe we should pay for roads by way of normal flat or progressive taxes rather than something regressive like the gas or mileage taxes.

[China]

Billionaires' Pandemic Profits Alone Could Cover 70% of Biden's American Jobs Plan

 

The profits earned by American billionaires during the coronavirus pandemic alone could cover the bulk of President Joe Biden's $2.25 trillion American Jobs Plan, according to a new analysis.

 

Americans for Tax Fairness and the Institute for Policy Studies released on Thursday a new report that shows billionaires in the U.S. increased their collective net worths by some $1.62 trillion between March 18, 2020, and April 12. Before last March, billionaires' combined net worth stood at $2.95 trillion, whereas it has now risen to $4.56 trillion. The analysis, which drew on data compiled by Forbes, pointed out that this amount could cover nearly 70 percent of Biden's proposed infrastructure plan.

 

The report shows that there are six billionaires in the U.S. with net worths of at least $100 billion: Jeff Bezos, founder and CEO of Amazon; Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla and SpaceX; Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft; Mark Zuckerberg, CEO and co-founder of Facebook; Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway; and Larry Ellison, co-founder and executive chairman of Oracle. Before March 2020, only Bezos had a net worth above $100 billion.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Tractor trailers are a lot of weight and log a lot of miles.  I don't see the point in trying to price cars and suvs differently other then that's what we do now with the gas tax.  We don't have to.

 

If anything, bigger cars that hold more people should get the reverse of getting taxed more in pay by mile.  Less variation in taxes may be more fair.

 

I have to assume you were being sarcastic. I mean there are very few big cars carrying more than their smaller counterparts except on Friday and Saturday night for parties. Going to work they are one to a car. They take up more of the road and are much heavier putting more stress on the roads. 

 

I am not against less variation, but I am against someone driving a prius or something similar paying the same as someone in a dually diesel. I am Ok making the categories smaller but not OTR trucks and then everything else. There is nothing fair there. The rich who can afford those big ass gas eating road grating vehicles get off easy while those with smaller more economical cars pay the same.  

[tshile]

6 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I generally believe the best way for the government to deal with this is well paid low skilled work (e.g. pay people to pick up litter) funded by higher taxes at the top.

I don’t understand this. Is it to create a higher paying job doing something simple therefore employers need to be above it to keep/attract workers to a hard but still generally low paying job?

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

I don’t understand this. Is it to create a higher paying job doing something simple therefore employers need to be above it to keep/attract workers to a hard but still generally low paying job?

Yes.  And by "well paid", I don't really mean like most government employees.  But I also don't mean like prison work crews.

 

It would create a bottom level of income that all employers would have to pay, while dealing with the loss of employment by those lower level workers.

 

(I believe the AT trail is mostly maintained by volunteers.  There is a National Wild Life Refuge outside of Philadelphia that holds a volunteer clean up day to clean up the litter and garbage.  Have the government start paying people $15/hour to do that work.)

[visionary]

 

[Renegade7]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:29 PM, goskins10 said:

 

I have to assume you were being sarcastic. I mean there are very few big cars carrying more than their smaller counterparts except on Friday and Saturday night for parties. Going to work they are one to a car. They take up more of the road and are much heavier putting more stress on the roads. 

 

I am not against less variation, but I am against someone driving a prius or something similar paying the same as someone in a dually diesel. I am Ok making the categories smaller but not OTR trucks and then everything else. There is nothing fair there. The rich who can afford those big ass gas eating road grating vehicles get off easy while those with smaller more economical cars pay the same.  

 

If you want it to encourage carpooling, try to get more people in bigger vehicles.  I still believe we are jus used to thinking of a hummer as destroying the environment, prototype for electric is already out.  Besides there are whole states that prefer trucks over anything, like Texas.  This could be vehemently unpopular based on state, and going to need a collective buy-in with some olive branches.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If you want it to encourage carpooling, try to get more people in bigger vehicles.  I still believe we are jus used to thinking of a hummer as destroying the environment, prototype for electric is already out.  Besides there are whole states that prefer trucks over anything, like Texas.  This could be vehemently unpopular based on state, and going to need a collective buy-in with some olive branches.

that electric hummer coming out in the fall is sexy AF. I love it 

[Burgold]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If you want it to encourage carpooling, try to get more people in bigger vehicles.  I still believe we are jus used to thinking of a hummer as destroying the environment, prototype for electric is already out.  Besides there are whole states that prefer trucks over anything, like Texas.  This could be vehemently unpopular based on state, and going to need a collective buy-in with some olive branches.

I think Goskins is right. Most SUV's I've  been in still are only good for carrying five people unless you want to forgo luggage then you can stick two more in uncomfortably. Now, a 1970's station wagon could haul a ton of people and stuff, but today's SUV are monster-sized on the outside and have the passenger capacity of a Yugo inside.

 

On a serious note, one interesting side effect of COVID has been that I have been walking a lot more. Since I stopped going to gym I've been trying to hike at least 10k a day. That often means I put a backpack on my back and hoof it to the grocery store. Sure, it takes longer and I can't buy as much, but it's a twenty minute walk each way and has resulted in refilling the tank from once a week to once a month if that (of course, not going to the office helps, too.)

 

So, mindset is a big part of how we drive, what he drive, or what's possible. There are reasons people can't walk, but if we want to carpool more... it's not about the size of the car. You can fit two comfortably in any sized car and most cars handle four easily. It's about changing the way we want to do things. In some respects, it's the mask argument. People don't want to change their habits or give up their FREEDOM (although in this case unlike masks I will admit as someone who has carpooled you are surrendering some freedom)

Edited April 18, 2021 by Burgold

[visionary]