Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[ODU AGGIE]

I didn't know where else to put  this, so here goes. Speaking of Buffalo looking mortal, Philly is looking pretty darn mortal today also. They have only scored 3 points against the 49ers in the first half.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I noticed he was given a bad QBR rating for that game.  35.8.  That's nuts.  

 

How is that even possible?...Were the negative plays just too much to overcome? Was it seen as the other players on offense bailed him out too much?

 

 

2 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I didn't know where else to put  this, so here goes. Speaking of Buffalo looking mortal, Philly is looking pretty darn mortal today also. They have only scored 3 points against the 49ers in the first half.

 

There's a game-day thread in the Around The NFL forum.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Califan007

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I didn't know where else to put  this, so here goes. Speaking of Buffalo looking mortal, Philly is looking pretty darn mortal today also. They have only scored 3 points against the 49ers in the first half.

 

Watched a little Philly today on and off, agree. Their defense though looks good.  As for Buffalo, Josh Allen simply doesn't look even a little sharp thus far.  Real sloppy game.  5 turnovers -- 3 by Miami.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Watched a little Philly today on and off, agree. Their defense though looks good.  As for Buffalo, Josh Allen simply doesn't look even a little sharp thus far.  Real sloppy game.  5 turnovers -- 3 by Miami.

Your boy Darnold is looking like Brady 2.0 today.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Your boy Darnold is looking like Brady 2.0 today.

 

Yep he's had a good start to the season.  Ditto my real boy, Mac Jones. 😀   But if Darnold ends up good, I'll own it.  Will see.  It's not like he's not had good games in the mix of his career.  Been watching some red zone on and off but mostly watching the Miami-Buffalo game.  From the little of the Carolina game I've seen they've given him really good protection, and a lot of short high percentage throws.   Let's see if he can sustain it. 

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep he's had a good start to the season.  Ditto my real boy, Mac Jones. 😀   But if Darnold ends up good, I'll own it.  Will see.  It's not like he's not had good games in the mix of his career.  Been watching some red zone on and off but mostly watching the Miami-Buffalo game.  From the little of the Carolina game I've seen they've given him really good protection, and a lot of short high percentage throws.   Let's see if he can sustain it. 

He's made some really nice plays today. Zack is the new Sam. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Can someone please explain to me how Zach Wilson is 9/15 with 91 yards and 4 INTs, yet somehow has a higher QB rating on espn (37.8) than Heinicke had on Thursday night football? It makes zero sense. 

 

Edit: nevermind, one was QBR and the other was RTG. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[HigSkin]

Would rather have Heinicke than any of the young QB's today.  They are throwing up INT's like drunk sailors.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's made some really nice plays today. Zack is the new Sam. 

 lol, yeah i watched some of that, pick after pick.  Still early....😀 Heck Tyrod Taylor looked more like Lamar Jackson today (pre injury) than Lamar.    Small samples.  Will see. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Watched a little Philly today on and off, agree. Their defense though looks good.  As for Buffalo, Josh Allen simply doesn't look even a little sharp thus far.  Real sloppy game.  5 turnovers -- 3 by Miami.

I think you need to update that Philly statement. They look OK in small doses.  But after a 91 yard pass, couldn't score? No reason to be down this much

[Dark Acre]

49 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's made some really nice plays today. Zack is the new Sam. 

Yeah, like i'm going to bite on that one and look up Darnold's mother.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep he's had a good start to the season.  Ditto my real boy, Mac Jones. 😀   But if Darnold ends up good, I'll own it.  Will see.  It's not like he's not had good games in the mix of his career.  Been watching some red zone on and off but mostly watching the Miami-Buffalo game.  From the little of the Carolina game I've seen they've given him really good protection, and a lot of short high percentage throws.   Let's see if he can sustain it. 

If Darnold and Wilson continue their pace on the year, New York needs to seriously become a contender for the "cursed QB" award.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think you need to update that Philly statement. They look OK in small doses.  But after a 91 yard pass, couldn't score? No reason to be down this much

 

OK.  I'll take your word for it.  I didn't watch any of the 2nd half of that one. I was mostly watching Buffalo. 

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK.  I'll take your word for it.  I didn't watch any of the 2nd half of that one. I was mostly watching Buffalo. 

If this were a preseason game, people would be praising him because he threw the 91 yarder, but they didn't score that drive and had like 250 total yards late in the 4th. That is like 160 yards not counting that one play. Not a good game. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to Jay Gruden on Sheehan's podcast.  I know some here hate the dude but I think he comes off well in interviews.  He played QB, IMO he's no dummy about that spot.

 

Some takeaways about his thoughts about Heinicke.

 

A.  Small sample size.  He needed to see more to define his play-compare him to other QBs.

 

B.  Most interesting part for me is when Sheehan asked Jay to compare him to Minshew.  He thinks Heinicke sees the field better and is a better athlete than Minshew.  It was clear he likes Heinicke over Minshew though he didn't flat out say it

 

C.  He said clearly Fitz outplayed Heinicke to win the job in camp.  Then also said some players are just not hot in practice but play better on game day and vice versa.  Sheehan asked him to name some examples, he said Colt, Desean, M. Moses weren't hot in practice.  He refused to say who played well in practice but didn't play well on game day but he said he had quite a few like that

 

D.  He cited Heinicke's inconsistent accuracy as his weakness based on what he saw.  He said you can try to fix that some via footwork exercises.  QBs who tend to sail their throws do it because they throw off their back foot and don't properly step into their throws.

 

E.  He likes Heinicke's ability to make plays off script.  Competitive spirit.  Toughness.   Avoids the rush well.   Mobile in the pocket.

 

F.  He isn't that worried about defensives game planning for him. He thinks he played well on Thursday but thinks the jury is still out.  He said he needs to see more to give a definitive take on him

Edited September 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Jay Gruden on Sheehan's podcast.  I know some here hate the dude but I think he comes off well in interviews.  He played QB, IMO he's no dummy about that spot.

 

Some takeaways about his thoughts about Heinicke.

 

A.  Small sample size.  He needed to see more to define his play-compare him to other QBs.

 

B.  Most interesting part for me is when Sheehan asked Jay to compare him to Minshew.  He thinks Heinicke sees the field better and is a better athlete than Minshew.  It was clear he likes Heinicke over Minshew though he didn't flat out say it

 

C.  He said clearly Fitz outplayed Heinicke to win the job in camp.  Then also said some players are just not hot in practice but play better on game day and vice versa.  Sheehan asked him to name some examples, he said Colt, Desean, M. Moses weren't hot in practice.  He refused to say who played well in practice but didn't play well on game day but he said he had quite a few like that

 

D.  He cited Heinicke's inconsistent accuracy as his weakness based on what he saw.  He said you can try to fix that some via footwork exercises.  QBs who tend to sail their throws do it because they throw off their back foot and don't properly step into their throws.

 

E.  He likes Heinicke's ability to make plays off script.  Competitive spirit.  Toughness.   Avoids the rush well. 

 

F.  He isn't that worried about defensives game planning for him. He thinks he played well on Thursday but thinks the jury is still out.

Interesting stuff. I can't keep up with Sheehan's podcasts but its interesting to see these opinions. I know he didn't want to compare QBs yet but I'd wonder if he would compare Taylor to Colt. And I wonder what he thinks about his arm strength or the importance of arm strength. And he's coached Cousins and Smith as well as many others but those two seem to be at the other end of the spectrum vs a guy like Grossman. I wonder where he sees Taylor and (Dak threw an INT!!!!!) how important he thinks that aggressiveness is. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Interesting stuff. I can't keep up with Sheehan's podcasts but its interesting to see these opinions. I know he didn't want to compare QBs yet but I'd wonder if he would compare Taylor to Colt. And I wonder what he thinks about his arm strength or the importance of arm strength. And he's coached Cousins and Smith as well as many others but those two seem to be at the other end of the spectrum vs a guy like Grossman. I wonder where he sees Taylor and (Dak threw an INT!!!!!) how important he thinks that aggressiveness is. 

 

I know from another podcast he loves toughness.  A QB who can take a big hit and then come back and play fearlessly.  He seems to like aggressivness everything being equal.   If i had to bring a hard take away from the podcast it would be too early to tell but he likes what he sees.  Likes his mobility and toughness but has some doubts about his accuracy. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know from another podcast he loves toughness.  A QB who can take a big hit and then come back and play fearlessly.  He seems to like aggressivness everything being equal.   If i had to bring a hard take away from the podcast it would be too early to tell but he likes what he sees.  Likes his mobility and toughness but has some doubts about his accuracy. 

j really wonder how much of a say he had in personnel because that 2018 season, brining in Sanchez then the 2019 season bringing in dude from Denver ?Keenum? and we know he didn't want Dwayne. He didn't have any say in RG3 or Cousins. The only real QB that we brought in with toughness as something I'd describe is Colt

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

j really wonder how much of a say he had in personnel because that 2018 season, brining in Sanchez then the 2019 season bringing in dude from Denver ?Keenum? and we know he didn't want Dwayne. He didn't have any say in RG3 or Cousins. The only real QB that we brought in with toughness as something I'd describe is Colt

 

He's talked about it in other podcasts, sounds like he had no say.  For example, he said when they brought in Alex, they just did it, they didn't talk to him about it in advance.   

 

I've heard several times that he liked Daniel Jones over Haskins.  the impression I get hearing that narrative isn't so much he loved Jones if he fell to their pick but that he thought he was better than Haskins.   Sounds like he liked Kirk but wanted to trade him because he felt Kirk wanted out albeit the FO didn't agree with that thought and Jay doubled down on what Mike Jones said which is they could have gotten a good haul for Kirk at the time.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's talked about it in other podcasts, sounds like he had no say.  For example, he said when they brought in Alex, they just did it, they didn't talk to him about it in advance.   

 

I've heard several times that he liked Daniel Jones over Haskins.  the impression I get hearing that narrative isn't so much he loved Jones if he fell to their pick but that he thought he was better than Haskins.   Sounds like he liked Kirk but wanted to trade him because he felt Kirk wanted out albeit the FO didn't agree with that thought and Jay doubled down on what Mike Jones said which is they could have gotten a good haul for Kirk at the time.

Yeah this I kinda knew. But like in other drafts, who did he like. Was there ever a QB he was screaming for like he did for the guys he gets credit for? I guess he didn't like Minshew. Did he scout Allen or Heinicke? Did he like Mullins or Beathard? What other QBs that we passed on that turned out ok to good? I've never heard of him being in love with a QB other than Colt

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah this I kinda knew. But like in other drafts, who did he like. Was there ever a QB he was screaming for like he did for the guys he gets credit for? I guess he didn't like Minshew. Did he scout Allen or Heinicke? Did he like Mullins or Beathard? What other QBs that we passed on that turned out ok to good? I've never heard of him being in love with a QB other than Colt

 
 

Don’t know. I do recall some beat guys saying they heard the FO, assume Jay too, loved Kyler Murray. Also heard they weren’t into Tua.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 
 

Don’t know. I do recall some best guys saying they heard the FO, assume Jay too, loved Kyler Murray. Also heard they weren’t into Tua.

I can see that, but also DUH. Like, thats a gimme. If he liked an unknown guy like Minshew I'd be more appreciative of his opinion. But after watching him here and yes he did work with Cousins, I guess. But nobody else came to light under him. So he's not really a QB whisperer. Turner on the other hand has made Smith, Allen and Heinicke look good, and Haskins put up 300 yards. Not trying to say one is better than the other but it makes me more willing to listen to Turner on QBs and what makes them and what doesn't

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I can see that, but also DUH. Like, thats a gimme. If he liked an unknown guy like Minshew I'd be more appreciative of his opinion. But after watching him here and yes he did work with Cousins, I guess. But nobody else came to light under him. So he's not really a QB whisperer. Turner on the other hand has made Smith, Allen and Heinicke look good, and Haskins put up 300 yards. Not trying to say one is better than the other but it makes me more willing to listen to Turner on QBs and what makes them and what doesn't

Not for me. Mainly because Jay actually played QB.  Nothing to do with QB whisper or not for me. But just like I tend to listen to Logan Paulsen when he talks about TEs. I’ll listen to a dude who played the spot and was an offensive coordinator  versus someone who never played the spot as to explaining the mechanics of the position among other things.

 

As for who Jay liked deeper in the draft? You got me but just because I don’t know doesn’t mean he didn’t like anyone.

I didn’t listen to Jays take because I see him as a QB whisper but considering he played the spot and been around a lot of QBs in his day, he would know a heck of a lot more about it than we would 

[Thinking Skins]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not for me. Mainly because Jay actually played QB.  Nothing to do with QB whisper or not for me. But just like I tend to listen to Logan Paulsen when he talks about TEs. I’ll listen to a dude who played the spot and was an offensive coordinator  versus someone who never played the spot as to explaining the mechanics of the position among other things.

 

As for who Jay liked deeper in the draft? You got me but just because I don’t know doesn’t mean he didn’t like anyone.

I didn’t listen to Jays take because I see him as a QB whisper but considering he played the spot and been around a lot of QBs in his day, he would know a heck of a lot more about it than we would 

I agree with you but only to a certain extent. He played in a different league so he may value things that are not as beneficial here. You mention Paulsen and I like him overall but I'd contrast that with Doc Walker. Doc's a cool guy. Met him once had some good conversations with him. But his analysis on TEs and most of football is based on the League from 15-30 years ago sometimes so its not really so applicable. Thats a different league. 

 

But I like Gruden overall as a talent evaluator. I think that as much love as Kyle Smith and other dude got Gruden should get just as much. So I like his opinions for that reason. But he seems to be good at picking everything but QB. And its not just him. His brother has the same problem. Fortunately his brother was given Carr like he was given Cousins. But he / Bruce never were able to make the Cousins thing work whereas his brother was able to make the Carr work. But I wonder if he thinks a guy like Darnold or Minshew are his type of guys? Tyrod Taylor? We've had so many different starting QBs under him and like Shanny who everybody thought was a QB genius before coming here and just didn't see it here, I just feel like he needed a good QB to make his system work but couldn't get an OK qb to come in and run it good enough. 

 

But maybe I'm taking this conversation too far into left field. This is about the legend of Heinicke, not a memory lane of our QB struggles

[mhd24]

I remember Jay saying that he liked Stidham (more as a mid round pick).  I think Jay can coach offense.  We constantly had guys wide open while he was here.