Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Stefanskins]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

So far we've been on a winning streak with a combination of a vastly improved defense, running the ball effectively, and having Heinicke play efficient football.

But it’s always a combination…could it be the defense is playing better(rested/top) because we are running the ball more effectively and maybe we are running the ball more effectively in part because of him…be it energy, line/teammates playing harder…the defenses and or own respecting him…haven’t seen too many 8 men in the box, recently, daring him to throw…you know?

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

But it’s always a combination…could it be the defense is playing better(rested/top) because we are running the ball more effectively and maybe we are running the ball more effectively in part because of him…be it energy, line/teammates playing harder…the defenses and or own respecting him…haven’t seen too many 8 men in the box, recently, daring him to throw…you know?

 

We're running the ball more effectively because of Heinicke? Is he handing it off in a specific way? Our OL is excellent, the play design is pretty good, and we have some good talent in the backfield.

 

The defense is playing better for multiple reasons, partially because we lost Chase and Montez and now have to actually do interesting things on defense instead of just be plain vanilla. Sure, the long drives help, but I doubt that's the biggest reason.

 

Not everything is somehow caused by Taylor Heinicke, you know?

Edited December 11, 2021 by mistertim

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

He is starting to garner respect now (both from opposing players and coaches and legends like Farvre) media people will start getting his name straight. He has his flaws but he is must see TV at this moment.  

 

With all due respect this tells me nothing. I was honestly asking where the stupid Tyler thing came from. Do you know? 

Edited December 11, 2021 by goskins10

[bowhunter]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

But what happens when it stops working and we have to tell TH to go out and win the game with his arm?

I don't think there's a ton of QBs that I would rather tell to go out and win the game than how TH has been showing that he can. With his arm. And Legs, and Head, and Leadership.  Honest question.. don't you feel that any 4th quarter drive is within the reach of what TH has shown?? Do you give up hope if we're down by 4 with 3 minutes left in the game? He's not the prototype of the "arm" you want leading your team, but lately he's been the "QB" I want in those moments.  Give the man credit where it's due

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I don't think there's a ton of QBs that I would rather tell to go out and win the game than how TH has been showing that he can. With his arm. And Legs, and Head, and Leadership.  Honest question.. don't you feel that any 4th quarter drive is within the reach of what TH has shown?? Do you give up hope if we're down by 4 with 3 minutes left in the game? He's not the prototype of the "arm" you want leading your team, but lately he's been the "QB" I want in those moments.  Give the man credit where it's due

 

Has nothing to do with 4th quarter drives. It has to do with the whole game. If you know the run game isn't working, or your defense has **** the bed and you're way down early, or for whatever other reason, you know, and the defense knows, that you're going to have to throw the ball and it still works because your QB has the skill to do so. That's what I mean.

 

Right now the run game is working, the defense is playing really well, so Heinicke doesn't have to deal with that sort of situation. Earlier in the season he did somewhat (mostly because the defense was playing poorly) and the results were "meh". IMO for him to separate himself from the 15-20 tier QBs he'd need to show the ability to do that if need be. He didn't earlier in the season, but it was early so he gets a bit of a mulligan. I'd be interested to see what would happen now.

[bowhunter]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Has nothing to do with 4th quarter drives. It has to do with the whole game. If you know the run game isn't working, or your defense has **** the bed and you're way down early, or for whatever other reason, you know, and the defense knows, that you're going to have to throw the ball and it still works because your QB has the skill to do so. That's what I mean.

 

Right now the run game is working, the defense is playing really well, so Heinicke doesn't have to deal with that sort of situation. Earlier in the season he did somewhat (mostly because the defense was playing poorly) and the results were "meh". IMO for him to separate himself from the 15-20 tier QBs he'd need to show the ability to do that if need be. He didn't earlier in the season, but it was early so he gets a bit of a mulligan. I'd be interested to see what would happen now.

While not wholeheartedly in agreement with you, I appreciate the demeanor of your response. Cousins has the "arm" but certainly isn't "clutch." TH is kind of the polar opposite. (coincidentally, I really liked Kirk.) It would be nice to put Cousins arm on TH and have a bionic Mahomes. But I genuinely believe that a few key pieces on this team can make a big difference. Add a FS, yet another LB, and a FB and I think this team can be something to get your blood flowing.

[ILikeBilly]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

....Earlier in the season he did somewhat (mostly because the defense was playing poorly) and the results were "meh". ...

Early in the season, he was playing with WR1, WR4 and WR5.  Then he lost TE1 and TE2.   If he ever gets his WR2 and WR3 back with RB2 and TE2 (TE1 is out for the season), and has mostly starters on the line, then we would be more likely to see some 300+ yard, 3 TD games.  

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

Early in the season, he was playing with WR1, WR4 and WR5.  Then he lost TE1 and TE2.   If he ever gets his WR2 and WR3 back with RB2 and TE2 (TE1 is out for the season), and has mostly starters on the line, then we would be more likely to see some 300+ yard, 3 TD games.  

 

So if everything is ideal we could see him put up more yards and points? Every QB has pass catchers out at some point. Even with injuries our OL has been excellent overall in pass pro pretty much all season. One of the highest rated.

 

It seems like this might be heading back into "When things aren't going well it's everone's fault but Heinicke's" territory here.

[Stefanskins]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

We're running the ball more effectively because of Heinicke? Is he handing it off in a specific way?

I guess you don’t remember all those years where the other team would overload the box against us because they had absolutely no fear of any Redskins QB making them pay for it? Have you seen any team do that to him? Do you even hazard to guess why? I can assure you that it has nothing to do with some kind of magical way he hands it off…I can also assure you that no matter how great our line is playing, and they are, if it were not for Taylor they damn sure would overload the box to stop our run…because like you said Taylor isn’t significant enough to worry about…definitely doesn’t make plays with his noodle arm…do you really not see?

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Stefanskins said:

I guess you don’t remember all those years where the other team would overload the box against us because they had absolutely no fear of any Redskins QB making them pay for it? Have you seen any team do that to him? Do you even hazard to guess why? I can assure you that it has nothing to do with some kind of magical way he hands it off…I can also assure you that no matter how great our line is playing, and they are, if it were not for Taylor they damn sure would overload the box to stop our run…because like you said Taylor isn’t significant enough to worry about…definitely doesn’t make plays with his noodle arm…do you really not see?

 

Can you give me the link you're using for your stacked box rate vs us? I can't find one.

[London Kev]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

With all due respect this tells me nothing. I was honestly asking where the stupid Tyler thing came from. Do you know? 

 

IIRC, few people knew who Taylor Heinicke actually was and they just got his name wrong. I don't think they intended to be disrespectful.

[rumplestilskin]

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

With all due respect this tells me nothing. I was honestly asking where the stupid Tyler thing came from. Do you know? 

I dunno. It just seems every broadcast or preshow there is someone that says Tyler. I have heared Bradshaw say it multiple times same with Aikman. I think its kind of a similar situation we experienced with Kurt Cousins. 😉

[DEASkins]

If Heinicke continues to play the way he has the last 4 games, keeps improving and we win a playoff game or two, at that point his intangibles will far outweigh his physical limitations and he will be our franchise QB going into next season

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, London Kev said:

 

IIRC, few people knew who Taylor Heinicke actually was and they just got his name wrong. I don't think they intended to be disrespectful.

 

 

Thanks!  I didn't know if it was something that stupid/simple or there was something that drove it. Stupid is as stupid does. And while the first one did not, the continued use is to take a cheap shot. We have turned into such a childish nation. it's nauseating. 

[wit33]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

We're running the ball more effectively because of Heinicke? Is he handing it off in a specific way? Our OL is excellent, the play design is pretty good, and we have some good talent in the backfield.

 

Give the dude a little something lol. Yes, Heineke has a great deal to do with how the running game is producing. He has 76% completion percentage over the last 4 games and the offense is converting on 3rd downs at over 50%. Heineke has thrived in 3rd down situations, which has helped sustain drives. When sustaining drives you get more opportunities to accumulate stats, one of those being Antonio Gibson becoming the number 8 rusher in the league from a rushing yardage standpoint. If Heineke wasn’t playing at high level (this recent 4 game stretch) the rushing offense would negatively be impacted the reverse is also true.  
 

 

 

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The defense is playing better for multiple reasons, partially because we lost Chase and Montez and now have to actually do interesting things on defense instead of just be plain vanilla. Sure, the long drives help, but I doubt that's the biggest reason.

 

I get the impression the opposite was true in that the defense simplified things on the back end which has helped. 
 

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Not everything is somehow caused by Taylor Heinicke, you know?

Do you believe the QB is the most important position? Just curious if you have another theory other than the conventional one, that being the QB is the most important position in sports. 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by wit33

[ILikeBilly]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

So if everything is ideal we could see him put up more yards and points? Every QB has pass catchers out at some point. Even with injuries our OL has been excellent overall in pass pro pretty much all season. One of the highest rated.

 

It seems like this might be heading back into "When things aren't going well it's everone's fault but Heinicke's" territory here.

I will add one more thing - when this was happening, Taylor had a grand total of about 6 starts to his name.  He was and still is a novice.  Things weren't going well because on offense we had back ups at every position except RB, and Gibson was playing hurt. Thankfully we had a competent backup at QB who gave the team hope and is now a competent starter.

[Koolblue13]

Hes better than me, but he's no Manning.

[Thinking Skins]

This is what I love about this board and fan base. We can get into some heated arguments about QBs. If we stay with TH, I wonder if this thread will get as popular as the old Jason Campbell debates. I remember pulling for Ramsey over Brunell but I was all in on that playoff run. But I just hope that Heinicke can silence the critics.

 

For people who are so into the arm strength argument, why couldn't we just adapt more WCO principles into our scheme to take advantage of short passes and holes in the zones. That's kinda what he's already doing, especially when he scrambles on third down (that TD pass to Gibson was so pretty last week). 

 

But I'm all in the that's my QB camp and let's silence the critics

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, ILikeBilly said:

I will add one more thing - when this was happening, Taylor had a grand total of about 6 starts to his name.  He was and still is a novice.  Things weren't going well because on offense we had back ups at every position except RB, and Gibson was playing hurt. Thankfully we had a competent backup at QB who gave the team hope and is now a competent starter.

 

My issue is that when Heinicke was struggling, the hive blamed everything else: OL, receivers, coaches, etc. Now that things are going better, almost everything is somehow because of Heinicke. Running game doing well? Must be because of Heinicke. OL playing great? Heinicke makes them better. Defense playing much better? Must be because Heinicke is engineering long drives.

 

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

Do you believe the QB is the most important position? Just curious if you have another theory other than the conventional one, that being the QB is the most important position in sports. 

 

 

Of course it is, 100%. But at the same time the amount of praise and criticism the QB gets is often overblown. QB is the most important position, but that doesn't mean that everything good and/or everything bad stems from him. There are only so many things the QB can influence.

Edited December 11, 2021 by mistertim

[Thinking Skins]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

My issue is that when Heinicke was struggling, the hive blamed everything else: OL, receivers, coaches, etc. Now that things are going better, almost everything is somehow because of Heinicke. Running game doing well? Must be because of Heinicke. OL playing great? Heinicke makes them better. Defense playing much better? Must be because Heinicke is engineering long drives.

 

 

It's that his criticisms are often overblown. He has no arm. He's throwing high. He's getting lucky. He threw hail Mary ints and gets his decision making questioned. He slides early in GB on an obvious call that should have been called a TD but he's called all kinds of names. Our offense was moving the ball and not punting during the 4 game stretch of losing but people are calling for Allen. I admit I placed a ceiling on him, saying maybe he's not the guy you want to QB a shootout style offense every week and count on to do game winning drives but I thought he had proven he's more than a lucky backup 

 

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

[TysonM]

What I like from Kurt Warner's breakdown of Taylor Heinicke is his impression that TH is getting better with every game.  Whatever his ceiling is, he hasn't hit it yet.

 

His concerns were with TH trying too hard to win the game by taking overly risky throws while under pressure, those can cost us a game.

Edited December 11, 2021 by TysonM

[Ghost of]

6 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what I love about this board and fan base. We can get into some heated arguments about QBs. If we stay with TH, I wonder if this thread will get as popular as the old Jason Campbell debates. I remember pulling for Ramsey over Brunell but I was all in on that playoff run. But I just hope that Heinicke can silence the critics.

 

For people who are so into the arm strength argument, why couldn't we just adapt more WCO principles into our scheme to take advantage of short passes and holes in the zones. That's kinda what he's already doing, especially when he scrambles on third down (that TD pass to Gibson was so pretty last week). 

 

But I'm all in the that's my QB camp and let's silence the critics

 

For one, we weren't winners with Candle.  Two, when Brunell got his knee injured vs. the Giants, you remember that Ramsey finished the game with a W and won the San Francisco game the next week.  Gibbs made a mistake, he allowed his team to win a 17-10 game vs. TB with Brunell looking awful (forty one yards total passing, with a pick and no TDs) then lose what was a winnable game vs. Seattle to stick with a guy who was throwing hospital balls to his wideouts in that game. Really, that was a SB winning team (potentially) or at least could have got there with how the overall team was playing if not for QB. But Brunell was great at times before the knee.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said:

 

For one, we weren't winners with Candle.  Two, when Brunell got his knee injured vs. the Giants, you remember that Ramsey finished the game with a W and won the San Francisco game the next week.  Gibbs made a mistake, he allowed his team to win a 17-10 game vs. TB with Brunell looking awful (forty one yards total passing, with a pick and no TDs) then lose what was a winnable game vs. Seattle to stick with a guy who was throwing hospital balls to his wideouts in that game. Really, that was a SB winning team (potentially) or at least could have got there with how the overall team was playing if not for QB. But Brunell was great at times before the knee.

 

Was it Moss or was it Cooley who drops a pass in the redzone that could have been a TD and we would have won that game?

If only Gibbs had TH type of QB we could have advanced past the Seahawks. 

[Ghost of]

1 minute ago, zskins said:

 

Was it Moss or was it Cooley who drops a pass in the redzone that could have been a TD and we would have won that game?

If only Gibbs had TH type of QB we could have advanced past the Seahawks. 

I think it was Cooley.