Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I do think we can do better, but the biggest difference is Kirk was convinced he deserved to be paid like a top 5 QB while Taylor is just trying to prove he belongs. I think (hope?) he understands the game enough to know he's not suddenly going to become an elite QB and it'll always be a QB competition regardless of where he goes. 

 

 My concern remains that if our belief is the only way to win a ring is with an elite QB, we are taking a risk of having QB hell until we do because no one in between is good enough to keep. 

 

That's a lot of losing football, im so gun shot on this chase for own franchise QB that im game for what the Titans are doing right now. Ill wait to end of the season to give my answer to this question, but we should be thinking about it: Is anyone in this draft worth losing Heinicke over?

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Not that it matters, but prior to Matt going to Seattle there was a huge buzz around him coming off a 6 TD 450+ yard win against Detroit. He was only I think 24 or so and expectations were fairly lofty when he signed with the Hawks. Went into an open competition, lost his spot to Russell and he was basically done before he was 28. Flynn had been in the league 5 years by the time he reached the age Tyler is now.

 

Yea, thats one good game compared to the ag least 4-5 Taylor has had since he's been here.  I maintain its not a fair comparison.

 

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I think some are putting way too much stock into his performance the last couple of weeks just like some are putting too much stock into his performance the previous few weeks. He's somewhere in the middle, and we'll need the rest of the season to decipher what exactly that means.

 

 

Possible, why I've shifted to giving until end of the year to see what he is on average versus giving him to mid-season.  These are his best two games and back to back against top 10 defenses, I lean towards a sign of improvement at minimum. 

 

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

I don't know if Tannehill is a favorable comparison to anyone as we've seen what he turns into when he loses the best RB in football, which is basically what we saw in Miami.

 

I think you mean Houston, but Titans are 2-1 without Henry including a curbstomping of the Rams in LA.  If calling Taylor and Tannehill average to above average starters you can win games with, 4 ints games every once in a while are part of that conversation. 

[Redwolves92]

i dont get the complaints about his arm strength. He seems to be able to air it out to terry pretty deep (they almost connected on this pass in the carolina game). What passes is he unable to make?

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Redwolves92 said:

i dont get the complaints about his arm strength. He seems to be able to air it out to terry pretty deep (they almost connected on this pass in the carolina game). What passes is he unable to make?

He can make the throws. The problem is the ball is late getting there. Or it is just straight up underthrown A LOT. And that is purely due to his arm. But he has definitely increased his accuracy in the shorter range. The TD to Sims yesterday was a thing of beauty. And was ripped. The problem is he isnt going to get the same velocity on a rope at 30 yards as he is getting at 10. He has to lob the ball to get it downfield. Hence being late on out's consistently. 

[Playaction2Sanders]

I think we proved yesterday that the best friend of a QB is the running game and we gave Taylor that yesterday for the first time in months he went off and had his best game of the season because of it. He's just a gamer, the arm questions will always be there but when continues to make the plays he did and some of those throws in traffic with the so called noodle arm its hard to keep those doubts..

Edited November 22, 2021 by Playaction2Sanders

[PartyPosse]

32 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I think you mean Houston, but Titans are 2-1 without Henry including a curbstomping of the Rams in LA.  If calling Taylor and Tannehill average to above average starters you can win games with, 4 ints games every once in a while are part of that conversation. 

No, I meant we saw the Miami Tannehill when he doesn't have that elite run game. I think Tannehill is at best an average QB but he's also consistently surrounded by good talent, but that team won't win with him at QB unless Henry is there. It's an obvious statement.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

No, I meant we saw the Miami Tannehill when he doesn't have that elite run game. I think Tannehill is at best an average QB but he's also consistently surrounded by good talent, but that team won't win with him at QB unless Henry is there. It's an obvious statement.

 

Again, they are 2-1 without Henry and beat the Rams in their house, should we wait to see if he makes the playoffs or not this year?   What if Heinicke does?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Renegade7

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Redwolves92 said:

i dont get the complaints about his arm strength. He seems to be able to air it out to terry pretty deep (they almost connected on this pass in the carolina game). What passes is he unable to make?

 

As @clskinsfansaid it's not the he's completely incapable of making those throws, it's that he doesn't have the arm to get it there really quickly. That's especially important on out routes and other small window passes. A late throw on an out can easily turn into a pick 6. On deep balls it isn't quite as big of a deal but it still means that you'll get more underthrown balls and more air on those passes. Fortunately for us, Terry is one of the best contested catch receivers in the NFL, so he can come up with catches on those underthrown balls.

 

A guy with a big arm can afford to be a touch late on the throw or wait that extra half second to try and manipulate defenders before letting it loose because he has the arm talent to put it on a rope before the DB can recover and break it up or intercept it. A guy with a below average arm has to basically be elite with his timing on those kind of throws, or bad things can happen. If you re-watch the Atlanta game you'll see multiple sideline/out passes by Heinicke that were a tick late and because of that the defenders were able to recover and get to it. 3 of those hit them in the hands so were basically dropped interceptions.

 

Another issue is that it's easier to game plan for. If you know a QB has a below average arm you can try to game plan to force him into making the kinds of throws he may struggle with and/or try to take away the things he's more comfortable with like underneath and intermediate.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Again, they are 2-1 without Henry and beat the Rams in their house, should we wait to see if he makes the playoffs or not this year?   What if Heinicke does?

I'm not really comparing them, merely saying hoping that Taylor becomes Ryan isn't the optimistic want you think it may be. They're 2-1, and you keep talking about that Rams game, but if you watched it you would know it was the defense that basically won that game for them.

 

Again, obviously it's a difficult to lose the top offensive weapon in football, but the reality is Tannehill became effective when he wasn't the focal point of the offense. I'd argue that Derrick is the most important offensive player in football. We don't have that so we're going to need more from a QB than a Tannehill-esque guy. Right now Taylor is locked up for one more year after this, and it would be foolish to even consider extending that until offseason at the earlies.

[fearlessNelms]

Maybe i'm being a prisoner of the last two games, but as it currently stands on November 22, 2021 I would take Heinicke as my starter over these starting QB's:

 

Tua

Zach Wilson

Baker Mayfield

Tyrod Taylor

Trevor Lawrence

Teddy Bridgewater

Jalen Hurts

Daniel Jones

Justin Fields

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Matt Ryan

Jimmy Garoppolo

Cam Newton

Ben Roethlisberger

 

Now, we'll see how the younger guys develop, but as of today, I would undoubtedly take Heinicke as our guy over the guys above. And if TH continues to improve as he has since the bye, there's a few more names to be added to that list. We'll see what happens, but we might have caught lightning in a bottle with Heinicke. He has some physical flaws- size and arm strength, but it's not like the dude can't play- he's a baller for sure. And his intangibles- athleticism, fire and leadership- is a package that supersede any physical flaws he has. 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by fearlessNelms

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Maybe i'm being a prisoner of the last two games, but as it currently stands on November 22, 2021 I would take Heinicke as my starter over these starting QB's:

 

Tua

Zach Wilson

Baker Mayfield

Tyrod Taylor

Trevor Lawrence

Teddy Bridgewater

Jalen Hurts

Daniel Jones

Justin Fields

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Matt Ryan

Jimmy Garoppolo

 

Now, we'll see how the younger guys develop, but as of today, I would undoubtedly take Heinicke as our guy over the guys above. And if TH continues to improve as he has since the bye, there's a few more names to be added to that list. We'll see what happens, but we might have caught lightning in a bottle with Heinicke. He has some physical flaws- size and arm strength, but it's not like the dude can't play- he's a baller for sure. And his intangibles- athleticism, fire and leadership- is a package that supersede any physical flaws he has. 

 

I'll agree. I may boldly add in Russell Wilson considering how he's looked these past two weeks.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm not really comparing them, merely saying hoping that Taylor becomes Ryan isn't the optimistic want you think it may be. They're 2-1, and you keep talking about that Rams game, but if you watched it you would know it was the defense that basically won that game for them.

 

But he didn't screw it up, sometimes thats all a game manager has to do.

 

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Again, obviously it's a difficult to lose the top offensive weapon in football, but the reality is Tannehill became effective when he wasn't the focal point of the offense. I'd argue that Derrick is the most important offensive player in football. We don't have that so we're going to need more from a QB than a Tannehill-esque guy.

 

I remember last year we kept wondering what if we had jus an average QB to team with the defense we had.  This year, the defense is starting to circle around and Taylor is playing with a much improved running game, 190 yards against a top 10 defense yesterday.  I really look forward to how he does down the stretch, most every aspect of our team is improving since the bye week and we're winning.  Really need to see how far that takes us, full body of work.

 

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

Right now Taylor is locked up for one more year after this, and it would be foolish to even consider extending that until offseason at the earlies.

 

I agree, we should not talk contracts until he's ready to be a free agent.

10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'll agree. I may boldly add in Russell Wilson considering how he's looked these past two weeks.

 

I'd say thats too bold, but we gonna find out next Monday, arent we? : )

[goskins10]

Two really nice games in a row from Taylor and the rest of the team. Scott is really understanding how to implement his offense and get Taylor and the others in a good place to succeed. Normally in a run heavy offense, which this now and that is fine, I would say as soon as someone takes the run away (and someone will), that's the end. But what I like about Taylor and Scott right now is they are getting good 3rd down plays called and Taylor and the off is executing very well. 

 

None of this happens if the D didn't start to get thier collective **** together. But the D could not win it alone either. They are playing very nice complimentary football. They need to keep scoring TDs. Against Tampa they struggled with TDS but the D kept them in it and then that drive - what a masterpiece with the game on the line from Scott/Taylor, and the entire Offense. Total team effort on both sides of the ball. 

 

I do think it's disingenuous for those saying Taylor has no weapons. That's an exaggeration. He may not have the 3 to 5 studs but Terry M is a definite stud, he has good chemistry with Carter, Bates in making plays, the run game is providing huge support and the oline is playing really well together. You can't point at any one part of the team and say - they are carrying the team in these wins or they are only winning because of X. And that goes for the D too. It's not jsut them playing better. It's not just Taylor who is responsible. The entire team is playing like a team- they are playing like the team I think we all expected at the beginning of the season. Solid running game with decent passing, truly stout D, and very solid STs. That is how you win games. 

 

Back to Taylor, I think I may be most impressed with his ability to stay on the field. He has taken some solid and sometimes nasty hits and he is popping back up like it's nothing. His workout this offseason is paying off vin a big way. 

 

Moving forward, if he takes them on a run, even if the team comes up short of the PO's (they dug themselves a pretty deep hole), he at least gives you some flexibility going into the offseason and I would think unless you truly land a stud he is your starter going into camp. Let's see how it goes. It looks like they have figured something out. This looks like a much better team coming out of the bye than the team that went in and that includes D, O, STs, coaches, everyone and everything. 

 

 

[zCommander]

6 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Heinike has earned the right to be the starter the rest of the year. But those of you who try to claim he doesnt limit our offense are wrong. You can win with his arm. But he cant carry the team with it either. He is consistently late on deep outs and posts. Hell Terry had to save him with 2 incredible catches yesterday on medium depth balls. I like Heinike. But he isnt the long term answer at QB. We have to add a rookie arm to compete against him next year. In the mean time Heinike is the guy here. 

 

5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Someone invite Mina Kimes to sign up for an ES account.  

 

Terry on the radio today said he likes contested balls and Taylor puts them where he has a better than 50% chance to get them. The impression I got that he actually likes them. Probably saying mine mine after the catch...lol @KDawg you were spot on about this.

 

Terry has a chemistry with Taylor and vise versa. This is how they play the game. To me it is not Terry baling out Taylor. It is both of them working together to bail out each other and keeping the chains moving. Can't ask for a better marriage.

 

Mina is not a true Washington fan or has a short term memory. How many balls did Kirk threw over WR's ahead that could have been walk in TDs? Too many to count. 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by zskins

[Renegade7]

@fearlessNelms i agree with you on that list except Baker.  Its hard for me to throw away his body of work, and he's been banged up this year, same reason I wouldn't add Wilson.

[fearlessNelms]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@fearlessNelms i agree with you on that list except Baker.  Its hard for me to throw away his body of work, and he's been banged up this year, same reason I wouldn't add Wilson.

Yeah- Mayfield is a close call, but I'ii still ride with TH over him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Not that it matters, but prior to Matt going to Seattle there was a huge buzz around him coming off a 6 TD 450+ yard win against Detroit. He was only I think 24 or so and expectations were fairly lofty when he signed with the Hawks.

 

Just for the record he was either 27 or 28 at the time of that game, not 24...

[Warhead36]

32 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Maybe i'm being a prisoner of the last two games, but as it currently stands on November 22, 2021 I would take Heinicke as my starter over these starting QB's:

 

Tua

Zach Wilson

Baker Mayfield

Tyrod Taylor

Trevor Lawrence

Teddy Bridgewater

Jalen Hurts

Daniel Jones

Justin Fields

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Matt Ryan

Jimmy Garoppolo

 

Now, we'll see how the younger guys develop, but as of today, I would undoubtedly take Heinicke as our guy over the guys above. And if TH continues to improve as he has since the bye, there's a few more names to be added to that list. We'll see what happens, but we might have caught lightning in a bottle with Heinicke. He has some physical flaws- size and arm strength, but it's not like the dude can't play- he's a baller for sure. And his intangibles- athleticism, fire and leadership- is a package that supersede any physical flaws he has. 

 

I'd agree with that list except Mayfield. He's basically Heinicke with way more arm strength.

 

But I think guys like Wilson and Fields project to be better QBs in 2-3 years, although I've never been a fan of Fields and Wilson is already being ruined by the Jets.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I do think it's disingenuous for those saying Taylor has no weapons. That's an exaggeration.

Whether his pass catchers are considered weapons or not, guys are getting schemed open on the reg.  So if it's Terry and a bunch of Jag's, Scott Turner must be doing something right.

[fearlessNelms]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd agree with that list except Mayfield. He's basically Heinicke with way more arm strength.

 

But I think guys like Wilson and Fields project to be better QBs in 2-3 years, although I've never been a fan of Fields and Wilson is already being ruined by the Jets.

All good points

[PartyPosse]

22 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Just for the record he was either 27 or 28 at the time of that game, not 24...

We're both wrong. He was 26. He was 25 when he had his first start.

43 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I'd say thats too bold, but we gonna find out next Monday, arent we? : )

I'm probably wrong, but he just hasn't looked right since returning 

26 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Yeah- Mayfield is a close call, but I'ii still ride with TH over him.

I'd ride with a healthy Mayfield, but he's such damaged goods at the moment.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

37 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

We're both wrong. He was 26. He was 25 when he had his first start.

 

 

Does Matt Flynn even really exist? lol...He sounds like a myth at this point.

[ILikeBilly]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd agree with that list except Mayfield. He's basically Heinicke with way more arm strength.

 

But I think guys like Wilson and Fields project to be better QBs in 2-3 years, although I've never been a fan of Fields and Wilson is already being ruined by the Jets.

Taylor also projects to be better in 2-3 years!!!!!

[skinsmarydu]

2 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

I think we proved yesterday that the best friend of a QB is the running game and we gave Taylor that yesterday for the first time in months he went off and had his best game of the season because of it. He's just a gamer, the arm questions will always be there but when continues to make the plays he did and some of those throws in traffic with the so called noodle arm its hard to keep those doubts..

Theismann, anyone?  Not the best arm, but the best supporting cast to get us to the SB (despite being the lowest paid QB in the league).  Great running game, great receivers, and an Ooooo-line. 

Those were the days.  Let's get back to 'em. 

[London Kev]

14 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Does Matt Flynn even really exist? lol...He sounds like a myth at this point.

 

Fun fact: Matt Flynn actually played in Super Bowl LIII.

 

He's the drummer for Maroon 5 and they played in the half time show. (Doesn't Google take you to some unexpected places).