Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

I think Fitz might be done. He's still in crutches. Heinicke stinks and you cant keep sending him out to make mistakes and get receivers killed with high turkeys when you've got a healthy QB you traded for sitting back there. Need to find out if Allen is better than Trubisky or whoever else. 

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is an interesting comp. On one hand because Moore is a pretty good OC but also because Heinicke was about to quit and go into coaching last year. And we were just calling for him to be the guy to groom a rookie (heck out maybe a vet) and possibly help teach Turner's system. So if we get an athletic QB like him but with a better arm, maybe he can tell that guy some things like Smith told Haskins (with better effect).

 

Couldn't think of a worse example if I tried.  The backup grooming the new guy thing is overrated, I keep hearing that through the years, but where is a tangible example with measurable results?  

[Thinking Skins]

Good point. Colt and Kirk? Mariota and Tannehill? Tyrod and Herbert? 

 

I know the rumor is that the starter in the XFL loved him as a backup and they're supposedly best friends now. 

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Good point. Colt and Kirk? Mariota and Tannehill? Tyrod and Herbert? 

 

I know the rumor is that the starter in the XFL loved him as a backup and they're supposedly best friends now. 

 

Having a good relationship is not the same as actually making a fellow QB better.

 

I think coaching up is better left to the QB coach, backup QBs have a rough enough job being ready at any given moment to play themselves, which many are competitive enough that thats what they'd rather do. 

 

BTW, who is this XFL starter and where is he now? 

 

I like Favre as a player, awesome to watch play, but a huge gambler, with more interceptions then anyone in history.  Is that really the style we want passed down to a potential rookie QB? I'd be perfectly fine with Taylor being supportive and staying in his lane, but not sure what to say about his QB coaching skills, that may be wishful thinking.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Renegade7

[Voice_of_Reason]

59 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Couldn't think of a worse example if I tried.  The backup grooming the new guy thing is overrated, I keep hearing that through the years, but where is a tangible example with measurable results?  

Mahomes heaps praise on Alex Smith for helping him. 
 

Fitz has mentored a bunch of guys through the years.  But I’m not sure any of them have panned out.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

33 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I like Favre as a player, awesome to watch play, but a huge gambler, with more interceptions then anyone in history.  Is that really the style we want passed down to a potential rookie QB?

Yeah, but there’s no telling the type of coach he would be.  
 

Just because you play one way doesn’t mean you coach the same style.  I mean, most of the coaches in the NFL are smart players who couldn’t actually play.  But they’re mentored as position coaches, and learn.  Moore didn’t really play in the NFL, and he’s done pretty well.  

[Warhead36]

Watching this TNF game just shows how important QB is. Rodgers is literally throwing to a bunch of no names with all the Packer injuries and still has put up 24 points with 7 minutes left in the game and driving again for more.

 

Weapons are nice and all but if you have a DUDE at QB its easy to make it work at other positions.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mahomes heaps praise on Alex Smith for helping him. 
 

 

Thats an interesting example considering they are near polar opposites from aggressiveness standpoint and outright raw talent Mahomes has.  Did Alex help him, sure, would Mahomes still of gotten the GDP of Missouri without him, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Fitz has mentored a bunch of guys through the years.  But I’m not sure any of them have panned out.  

 

Exactly. You want to expect these guys to help out their teammates and not be dicks, but its not their job or any evidence its their strength actually coaching up another QB. 

 

Who's to say Kyle Allen is a better mentor then Taylor?  I have no idea, the difference is probably negligible, thus really doesn't matter.  It's not something I'd bank on or factor into why to keep Taylor on the roster in 2022 and beyond. Can he lead the team to victories in the event the starter goes down, thats why he should stay or go, that's his job.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but there’s no telling the type of coach he would be.  
 

Just because you play one way doesn’t mean you coach the same style.  I mean, most of the coaches in the NFL are smart players who couldn’t actually play.  But they’re mentored as position coaches, and learn.  Moore didn’t really play in the NFL, and he’s done pretty well.  

 

I barely remember Kellen playing, but there are some guys you can tell jus dont have the metrics to be a starter and those that don't have the brains to be a starter. 

 

He only spent one year as a QB coach before being named OC, i have no idea if he was better at teaching QB mechanics or play calling, probably the later if he got promoted that quickly. 

 

Would I trust Taylor coaching QB mechanics? Based on his mechanics, not sure, probably not. Would he kill as a play caller, probably, because of how aggressive he is.  I keep hearing about how smart he is at ODU, five read guy. Maybe thats his calling, because it certainly ain't as a starter in the league.  

[tomwvr]

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just trying to be optimistic. I think he's probably starting his last professional game Sunday.

I doubt it. Ron knows what he has In Allen and Fitz is not going to play this year. His rehab is not close to where it needs to be.

 

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think Fitz might be done. He's still in crutches. Heinicke stinks and you cant keep sending him out to make mistakes and get receivers killed with high turkeys when you've got a healthy QB you traded for sitting back there. Need to find out if Allen is better than Trubisky or whoever else. 

We already know Allen is the worst qb on the roster

[Thinking Skins]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Who's to say Kyle Allen is a better mentor then Taylor?  I have no idea, the difference is probably negligible, thus really doesn't matter.  It's not something I'd bank on or factor into why to keep Taylor on the roster in 2022 and beyond. Can he lead the team to victories in the event the starter goes down, thats why he should stay or go, that's his job.

Well, people are saying how this playing time is showing that he's a quality backup and that alone should keep him on the roster. I think I overplayed the whole mentoring thing. I was thinking more that either Heinicke stays to compete with whoever we bring in (ala Fitz this year but more of a competition) or we draft a QB but don't start them immediately and have Heinicke to hold onto the job while the rookie gets ready. I think there are several more situations where that happens. It used to be the norm in the league but its what SF did this year with Jimmy G, what Philly did with Hurtz, what Chicago did with their OSU guy. Thats what I want Heinicke for. And if he needs to play for a few games I trust him right now. 

[Koolblue13]

49 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I doubt it. Ron knows what he has In Allen and Fitz is not going to play this year. His rehab is not close to where it needs to be.

 

We already know Allen is the worst qb on the roster

I wish I saw Farve when I watch Heinicke play the way that you do, but its just the mistakes and none of the magic.

 

You don't know that Heinicke is better than Allen, certainly not with any unquestionable measure.

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wish I saw Farve when I watch Heinicke play the way that you do, but its just the mistakes and none of the magic.

 

You don't know that Heinicke is better than Allen, certainly not with any unquestionable measure.

Watching the Pack vs Cards last night one would say Heinicke is better than Kyler Murray based on stats alone. Kyler has a stacked offense weaponry wise and Hienicke still outperformed him against the Pack in Lambeau. I'm starting to swing back to the bandwagon solely on the fact Heiny has 1 weapon....I say let him play. Oh the current track Heiny should tie or beat Favre first season in the NFL. 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Watching the Pack vs Cards last night one would say Heinicke is better than Kyler Murray based on stats alone. Kyler has a stacked offense weaponry wise and Hienicke still outperformed him against the Pack in Lambeau. I'm starting to swing back to the bandwagon solely on the fact Heiny has 1 weapon....I say let him play. Oh the current track Heiny should tie or beat Favre first season in the NFL. 

 

 

 

 

Youre a crazy person if you think Heinicke is remotely close to Murray or Favre. There is no rational debate to be had. 

[tmandoug1]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Youre a crazy person if you think Heinicke is remotely close to Murray or Favre. There is no rational debate to be had. 

Yep....like a loon. Thats the fun thing about rooting for underdogs to be successful, not much happens when you're wrong because it's expected and people think you were crazy in the first place. Lots of told you so's. Just would like to see him with a full offense for more than two quarters and a defense that hasn't given up 2 million yards and 500 points. 

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Yep....like a loon. Thats the fun thing about rooting for underdogs to be successful, not much happens when you're wrong because it's expected and people think you were crazy in the first place. Lots of told you so's. Just would like to see him with a full offense for more than two quarters and a defense that hasn't given up 2 million yards and 500 points. 

We're top ten in both pass rush win rate and run stop win rate. Maybe if captain flutter pass could score a TD and not turn the ball over, the defense wouldn't be hung out to dry for over half a game. Our run blocking is the leagues best, so they're doing their job controlling the clock. We're averaging 15 points a game the last 3 weeks and yes, we are dead last in points allowed, mainly because of a bad secondary, but the offense, specifically the passing game is a league worst and if that doesn't fall squarely on the QB, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Don't blame Turner, because people are getting open just fine. Consistently.

[CjSuAvE22]

18 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Yep....like a loon. Thats the fun thing about rooting for underdogs to be successful, not much happens when you're wrong because it's expected and people think you were crazy in the first place. Lots of told you so's. Just would like to see him with a full offense for more than two quarters and a defense that hasn't given up 2 million yards and 500 points. 

The problem is after 30 years....we no longer want an "underdog". Also we could have the exact same team as the Bucs offense and Heinicke wouldn't do any better....we call a high school offense playbook because of his high school arm, if you see at the games the ones I've been to at fed ex we actually have receivers breaking free but hes unable to find them or is reluctant to throw them the ball out side of a couple errant throw ups to Mclaurin. Give me QB or give me death, 

Edited October 29, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Yep....like a loon. Thats the fun thing about rooting for underdogs to be successful, not much happens when you're wrong because it's expected and people think you were crazy in the first place. Lots of told you so's. Just would like to see him with a full offense for more than two quarters and a defense that hasn't given up 2 million yards and 500 points. 

Not one person here is rooting against Heinicke. I'm tired of this BS argument. Of course every single one of us wants him to succeed and be amazing and all that. But the Heinicke zealots need to join us in the realm of reality. He simply isn't very good.

[Berggy9598]

21 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Yep....like a loon. Thats the fun thing about rooting for underdogs to be successful, not much happens when you're wrong because it's expected and people think you were crazy in the first place. Lots of told you so's. Just would like to see him with a full offense for more than two quarters and a defense that hasn't given up 2 million yards and 500 points. 

A lion on some very powerful hallucinogenics. 

[SpacePenguin]

I like Heinicke. I think he could be a low end starter, even with his abysmal arm strength, if he was pinpoint accurate (Think Chad Pennington post shoulder surgery).

 

He is not accurate. He's sailing throws all over the place out there, and it's a miracle that he doesn't have more interceptions. Still would be a good backup, but this talk of Favre level play is insanity. He's fun enough to watch for now, but only because there are no better options. I don't necessarily think that Fitzpatrick would be any better, and Kyle Allen hasn't been able to stay healthy, historically. I feel like we'll probably see what he's got, sooner or later this season, and it won't be much.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by SpacePenguin

[kingdaddy]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mahomes heaps praise on Alex Smith for helping him. 
 

Fitz has mentored a bunch of guys through the years.  But I’m not sure any of them have panned out.  

That's because he tells them just enough to go about 3 qtrs until they blow up so he can come in and save the game. Well played Fitzy. 

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Well, people are saying how this playing time is showing that he's a quality backup and that alone should keep him on the roster. I think I overplayed the whole mentoring thing. I was thinking more that either Heinicke stays to compete with whoever we bring in (ala Fitz this year but more of a competition) or we draft a QB but don't start them immediately and have Heinicke to hold onto the job while the rookie gets ready. I think there are several more situations where that happens. It used to be the norm in the league but its what SF did this year with Jimmy G, what Philly did with Hurtz, what Chicago did with their OSU guy. Thats what I want Heinicke for. And if he needs to play for a few games I trust him right now. 

 

I feel you, but I can't support him being the guy in place until the rookie is ready the way he is playing now.  The plan you are laying out is going to lose a lot of games because we are scoring less then 20 points per game now and dropping. All those teams you mentioned have losing records, btw.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

28 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not one person here is rooting against Heinicke. I'm tired of this BS argument. Of course every single one of us wants him to succeed and be amazing and all that. But the Heinicke zealots need to join us in the realm of reality. He simply isn't very good.

Right, it only sounds like we don't like him because we are arguing with the loons, so we have to be honest about who he is as a quarterback.

 

Generally speaking, I like the guy and think it would be great if he was able to shut us all up with his play.  I just don't think it's possible for him because he doesn't have the tools to do that.  If he can somehow, some way, find a way to make his arm work in this league - I'll be the first to give him props for doing so.  I've just never seen it and don't expect that to change now, in times where windows are getting tighter.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, tomwvr said:

 

We already know Allen is the worst qb on the roster

 

No we don't.

 

Allen started 4 games last season, looked pretty decent, then got injured.

 

Now, if you're saying he's currently a bit of an unknown due to having to rehab from a bad injury, that I could agree with.

 

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Watching the Pack vs Cards last night one would say Heinicke is better than Kyler Murray based on stats alone.

 

This is pure silliness.

 

[DJHJR86]

I hate to bring up the "KC" word, but Kirk Cousins was absolutely abysmal in his first 16 games as a starter.  The people writing off Kyle Allen after 17 career starts is legitimately baffling to me.  And Allen's numbers are better than Cousins's.  Now here comes the disclaimer: I do not think Allen is "the future" or that he will turn into the next Kirk Cousins...but he was easily the best quarterback on this roster last season and it wasn't even close.