Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Just forgot how to spell his name.  

 

Fair enough. 

 

14 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Don't know if I agree about Boswell's "heyday".  Washington has sucked for 30 years, so that might be one reason the 1970s - 1990s were Boswell's "heyday".

 

He write all his books between 1982 and 1996. He then went into deeper research and put together some extensive statistics books for both Baseball and Football. I had the football. It was pretty cool. 

 

He continued writing articles for the Post. Another part of people maybe not knowing him is Newspapers decline, being replaced by the internet. Not saying he had no online presence. But it's not like the old days when the paper was where you got 95% of your information. 

 

I always liked him and his writing style. 

[86 Snyder]

Introducing...Taylor Dimeicke

 

 

[jnhutchi3]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fair enough. 

 

 

He write all his books between 1982 and 1996. He then went into deeper research and put together some extensive statistics books for both Baseball and Football. I had the football. It was pretty cool. 

 

He continued writing articles for the Post. Another part of people maybe not knowing him is Newspapers decline, being replaced by the internet. Not saying he had no online presence. But it's not like the old days when the paper was where you got 95% of your information. 

 

I always liked him and his writing style. 

 

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to that.  Boswell's football knowledge is so much greater than most of the talking head morons that you see on ESPN and the NFL Network nowadays.  Kornheiser and Wilbon on PTI is about all I can tolerate on ESPN anymore, at least in the evenings.  There are a few good analysts on the morning shows, like Jeff Saturday.

[mistertim]

52 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

Okay, I fully understand. The difference for me is that having watched him for four years at ODU plus what he continues to do now means I do not have to see more to exude the confidence in him that I do. Now, before anyone says something about that was not the NFL -- I fully know and acknowledge that. But what you have all seen of him against the Panthers, Bucs, Chargers and now the Giants is exactly who he has always been. It makes no difference the level of play around him, Washington v. the Giants, or ODU v. JMU -- that is just who he is and, in my opinion, who he will continue to be.

 

I fully get that you dig everything about him from ODU, and I know this has been said before, but that has very little to do with NFL success. He did great at ODU. Awesome. I want to see how he performs over time in the NFL.

[El Mexican]

After lastnight's game it should be clear Fitz, if he returns, should accept a backup role.

As some of us noted after the TB game, Heinicke is the real deal.

 

Sadly, our D remains suspect so it seems every game this season will neccesitate 30 points from the offense to be winnable.

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Agreed.  There is nothing left to see regarding Heinicke. 

 

See, this is the stuff that I try to just tune out. I doubt any of his coaches or most sports analysts would agree with you. It's silly. Even most of his supporters in this thread realize that he still has to prove he can be an effective QB over a period of time.

[ODU AGGIE]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I fully get that you dig everything about him from ODU, and I know this has been said before, but that has very little to do with NFL success. He did great at ODU. Awesome. I want to see how he performs over time in the NFL.

And I get that MT. Let's just enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts, however long that may be. Cheers!

[Malapropismic Depository]

Jones is 0-1 against Heinicke.

And 4-0 against every other WFT QB

 

As a team, the Giants have won 5 straight against Washington, against any QB other than Heinicke.

Heinicke is Giant-killer.

[my_friend_goo]

Heinicke has earned the right to be the starter until such a time as he proves otherwise. I think he's earned himself a reasonable leash at this point and if he continues to move the ball and put up points, he'll only extend that. For all the frustrations last night brought, few  could be placed on him.

 

The two play drive was exactly what you want to see out of a quarterback, only fair to acknowledge the excellent timing and ball placement on those passes considering some high passes in the first half (I get that sometimes that's where the ball needs to go, but some were needlessly high but at least still within grasp). I hope to see more passes like the two on that drive as his time under center increases and fewer off target ones (again, I get that all QBs have some like that each game).

 

One thing I did like was how he didn't lose momentum on that last drive despite the frequent disruption. That's the way it should be, but I'm sure we've seen otherwise with other players at QB for this team in these barren years.

 

Speaking of which, I've been given false hope enough times to not straight up guzzle down the kool aid. I can't help but root for the guy, though.

[Malapropismic Depository]

@ODU AGGIE you got any ODU Monarchs that can play LB for us, anything like Heini can play QB ?

 

 

[jnhutchi3]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

See, this is the stuff that I try to just tune out. I doubt any of his coaches or most sports analysts would agree with you. It's silly. Even most of his supporters in this thread realize that he still has to prove he can be an effective QB over a period of time.

 

Wouldn't say "most", maybe a few feel that way.

 

Even successful QBs like Rodgers and Brady have to prove every single year that they can still do it.  Once they have a bad year with a significant drop-off, both of them will be gone. 

 

Therefore, it doesn't matter if Heinicke is good for only one year or good for five years.  The point is that he has already shown that he is an excellent QB in the year 2021.  That is not going to change between now and November or December.

 

[CapsSkins]

YAC notwithstanding, if a QB can march down the field 80 yards and get a TD in two plays, how can you say he doesn't have the arm strength? Lol

 

I know I know, the high balls sailing over heads is not good. When throwing lanes break down, or you're throwing left, the strength affects accuracy. I get all that.

 

But there is a difference between "arm strength is not a strength of his" and "his arm strength is a problem". I see it as the former, not the latter. It's not a problem, but it's not a strength in the way you see guys with cannons like Josh Allen or Mahomes.

[JSSkinz]

 

I'm all in for Heinicke this year but I don't care if he throws for 28 tds and 12 ints we still need to draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd rd next draft.

[jnhutchi3]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Well you said it yourself hes not perfect. No one is. That means he has flaws. Its more than just his injury history. He doesn't have an elite arm. That's objectively true. He gets hurt often. Objectively true. Some passes sail for whatever reason. True. All these things are at least arguable, if not true. So I understand why when seeing those things and needing to win RIGHT NOW some teams would be like no thanks and go to someone with more "talent" or a higher draft choice or whatever the issue is. 

 

Hell 5 years ago he could have been called a running QB and being labeled as such then was NOT so much of a positive as it is now. Im not saying anything is specifically wrong with him, so you don't have to defend him. I'm saying, I can see why someone would want to move on. If we had Hein and the first over all the same year Luck or Murry or Burrow or whatever the most recent guy of that ilk is coming out, you draft Luck or whoever and say by to Hein. Situations dictate response as much as talent does in the NFL. That's my point. 

 

Like I said I like the guy, so you dont have to go out of your way to defend him to me. I cant wait to see him play again. Honestly outside of injuries hes exactly what I have grown to want in a QB. Hes too smart to sit and I love that. 

 

That is not a "flaw".  It just means he is not perfect.  That's like saying a professional tennis player is "flawed" if he doesn't get every one of his first serves in play.  Nobody meets that standard.  It doesn't make it a flaw. 

 

What you're really saying is that Heinicke might not be as accurate as an elite QB like Brady or Rodgers, which is highly debatable at this point.  Again, that is not a flaw.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Wouldn't say "most", maybe a few feel that way.

 

Even successful QBs like Rodgers and Brady have to prove every single year that they can still do it.  Once they have a bad year with a significant drop-off, both of them will be gone. 

 

Therefore, it doesn't matter if Heinicke is good for only one year or good for five years.  The point is that he has already shown that he is an excellent QB in the year 2021.  That is not going to change between now and November or December.

 

 

He's shown in 2 2/3 starts that he can play in the NFL (which is no mean feat, to be clear). That's about it so far. He's shown flashes, and when guys show flashes that usually means they get a longer leash. Which I'm sure Heinicke has.

 

But to try and paint this as if it's some sort of "settled" question as to whether Hienicke is an "excellent" NFL QB is nonsensical. And I bet if you asked any of the WFT coaches in private they'd say the exact same thing. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by mistertim

[redskinss]

5 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

What you're really saying is that Heinicke might not be as accurate as an elite QB like Brady or Rodgers, which is highly debatable at this point

I had to read this like 4 times and I'm still not sure I get it.

Are you suggesting it's highly debatable as to whether or not heinicke is as accurate as Rodgers or brady?

[jnhutchi3]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

He's shown in 2 2/3 starts that he can play in the NFL (which is no mean feat, to be clear). That's about it so far. He's shown flashes, and when guys show flashes that usually means they get a longer leash. Which I'm sure Heinicke has.

 

But to try and paint this as if it's some sort of "settled" question as to whether Hienicke is an "excellent" NFL QB is nonsensical. And I doubt if you asked any of the WFT coaches in private they'd say the exact same thing. 

 

When is that question ever settled?  When you deem him worthy of the title of "excellent QB"?  

 

For the 2021 season, Heinicke has already demonstrated that he should be the starting QB for the Washington Football Team.  He has removed all doubt via his outstanding play.  That is my definition of an "excellent QB". 

 

Whether or not he remains an excellent QB in 2022, 2023, etc. remains to be seen.  Just like it remains to be seen for EVERY QB from year to year, including the "excellent" ones like Brady and Rodgers.

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I had to read this like 4 times and I'm still not sure I get it.

Are you suggesting it's highly debatable as to whether or not heinicke is as accurate as Rodgers or brady?

 

Yes, it's debatable.  You can't prove it one way or the other.  Neither can I.

[Stefanskins]

SHeinicke...

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

YAC notwithstanding, if a QB can march down the field 80 yards and get a TD in two plays, how can you say he doesn't have the arm strength? Lol

 

I know I know, the high balls sailing over heads is not good. When throwing lanes break down, or you're throwing left, the strength affects accuracy. I get all that.

 

But there is a difference between "arm strength is not a strength of his" and "his arm strength is a problem". I see it as the former, not the latter. It's not a problem, but it's not a strength in the way you see guys with cannons like Josh Allen or Mahomes.

 

I don't think we really know yet whether it's a problem. Last night the Giants played a lot of bend-but-don't-break soft zone so the underneath stuff was there all night long. I'm not saying that to dismiss his play; he took what they gave him and played very well. But he wasn't really tested that much as far as pushing the ball downfield regularly and having to hit tight windows in man coverage.

 

If we play a team that truly takes away the underneath stuff and forces him to go downfield more we might have a better idea. As it is there are two passes that immediately come to mind that showed issues with limited arm strength, and these were regular deep passes, not far side hash out routes that are a pick 6 if they don't get there in time.

 

One was the deep shot to Terry vs the Chargers and the other was the deep shot to Brown last night. Both of those had a ton of air under them. Way too much. On the pass to Terry it allowed the other DB to get there and should have been intercepted, but it went right through his hands and Terry mad an insane catch. On the pass to Brown it again had a crapload of air under it. So much so that both Brown and the DB stopped, turned around, and then both came back to try and go up an get it.

 

That's not the end of the world, and the TD shot last night to RSJ didn't really exhibit it, but it's still a bit worrying.

[XxSpearheadxX]

[redskinss]

8 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

Yes, it's debatable.  You can't prove it one way or the other.  Neither can I.

I like heinicke as much as anybody in here and if you've followed this thread for the last 6 months you'd see that but to suggest that's debatable is just laughable. 

I'm sorry but heinicke has done some great things and had some great throws but he's also been bailed out on some high throws some throws behind the receivers and his sample size is so small that to compare him in any way to Rodgers or Brady is just ridiculous. 

I can't prove that kellen mond isn't as accurate as Rodgers or Brady either.

Edited September 17, 2021 by redskinss

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

When is that question ever settled?  When you deem him worthy of the title of "excellent QB"?  

 

For the 2021 season, Heinicke has already demonstrated that he should be the starting QB for the Washington Football Team.  He has removed all doubt via his outstanding play.  That is my definition of an "excellent QB". 

 

Whether or not he remains an excellent QB in 2022, 2023, etc. remains to be seen.  Just like it remains to be seen for EVERY QB from year to year, including the "excellent" ones like Brady and Rodgers.

 

Yes, it's debatable.  You can't prove it one way or the other.  Neither can I.

 

Then your definition is probably different than most. And I think part of it is due to how QB starved we've been as a team for so long.

 

I'd consider an "excellent" QB to be a tier below "elite" so to me that means at least top 10. And when I say "excellent QB" I don't mean "made a few great plays over a few games", I mean he's played at a consistently high level and shown that he's one of the best in the game over an extended period of time.

 

There are pretty much no QBs who start out and are immediately seen around the league as excellent or elite QBs. That sort of thing has to be earned by great play over time. For most NFL QBs that is a season or two of top tier play before they're regarded as being in that upper echelon. The outliers are guys like Mahomes who come in and just absolutely tear everything to pieces as soon as they step on the field.

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think we really know yet whether it's a problem. Last night the Giants played a lot of bend-but-don't-break soft zone so the underneath stuff was there all night long. I'm not saying that to dismiss his play; he took what they gave him and played very well. But he wasn't really tested that much as far as pushing the ball downfield regularly and having to hit tight windows in man coverage.

 

If we play a team that truly takes away the underneath stuff and forces him to go downfield more we might have a better idea. As it is there are two passes that immediately come to mind that showed issues with limited arm strength, and these were regular deep passes, not far side hash out routes that are a pick 6 if they don't get there in time.

 

One was the deep shot to Terry vs the Chargers and the other was the deep shot to Brown last night. Both of those had a ton of air under them. Way too much. On the pass to Terry it allowed the other DB to get there and should have been intercepted, but it went right through his hands and Terry mad an insane catch. On the pass to Brown it again had a crapload of air under it. So much so that both Brown and the DB stopped, turned around, and then both came back to try and go up an get it.

 

That's not the end of the world, and the TD shot last night to RSJ didn't really exhibit it, but it's still a bit worrying.

 

Yeah the bomb to Terry against the Chargers was a classic Fitz-(M/Tr)-agic grab bag.

 

I was one of the first Heinicke Truthers on here, I think technically even before ODU Aggie :), but he could easily have a few more Interceptions right now.

 

That said, this was only his 3rd start ever. Just because he's 28 years old doesn't mean he's reached his ceiling, he needs playing time and the chance to improve via live fire game situations first. I think his flaws are the kinds that you can address via reps. Brady doesn't have a cannon arm either. But understanding ball placement and accuracy within the limitations of your physical ability is a process. 

 

What's more, we actually have the offensive weapons to make plays on those 50/50 balls and I'm not talking about Ricky Seals-Jones. My point is, if Heinicke can manage the offense then it frees up cap space to invest elsewhere on the roster. I don't mean just this year, I mean for the next 5 years and potentially longer. There are plenty of ways to win in the NFL and while you need a good quarterback, if you can get quality QB play without paying the guy $40M then it gives you massive flexibility in terms of building out the roster around him.

 

In a salary cap league, you have to always look at performance with the price tag attached - or rather, the % of salary cap allocated to the player attached. 

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Whether last night's game would've been a win or loss, Taylor played well. Made safe throws for the most part, although the two TD passes were darts and very well placed. Credit has to go to the O-line, which didn't allow any pressure at all. 

 

They played better.  But don't discount the fact that TH can scramble.  That has a chilling effect on the pass rush.  The DLine vs a mobile QB has to worry about keeping the QB from escaping the pocket.