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2021 Draft Order / Tracker: Current Pick #19

zCommander

By zCommander
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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, lovemaskins said:

Here’s a thought I had the other day:

 

if we had a 2020 draft do-over knowing what we know now about Haskins and Allen and Chase Young, should we have selected Tua or Justin Herbert at 2 or still selected the generational pass rusher?


Sadly, deep down I think we knew then exactly what we know now.

 

You’d take a QB.

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MisterPinstripe

MisterPinstripe

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11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Sadly, deep down I think we knew then exactly what we know now.

 

You’d take a QB.

Yeah, QB trumps all. For me it would be Herbert, trade back some for someone to take Young and then have a QB. Is there anyone that wouldnt trade a potential monster DE for a franchise QB?

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

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22 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Yeah, QB trumps all. For me it would be Herbert, trade back some for someone to take Young and then have a QB. Is there anyone that wouldnt trade a potential monster DE for a franchise QB?

 

 

I think there are two schools of thought here.  There is something to be said about getting a team built that can win with mediocre QB play, and finding 'the guy' takes that team from consistently competitive, to elite.  See current KC Chiefs team.  A lot of the belief is, as you put it, QB trumps all.  The QB can have the biggest influence down in, and down out, but at times it that player is greatly limited by the team they are on... See current GB Packers.  The Steelers had 3 winning seasons with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddux, then a down year... the following year they drafted Ben Roethlisberger.  Look at the Eagles history.  They have had exactly 3 losing seasons in the last 10 (since McNabb left).  They did that with Vick, Foles, Sanchez, Bradford and Wentz.  Their worst season was 4-12 with Vick at QB.  

 

New England is the standard... what everyone strives to be.  They have had arguably the best QB to ever play the game.  Brady is viewed literally as 1 of 1.  We may never see anyone be able to execute he position as well as he has ever again.   Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers are the only 4 QBs to prove they can truly carry a team to the promised land... and you could even argue Rodgers... He took over a 13 - 3 team.  He has no help from his front office right now and they had two down years prior to last season.  This year GB looks tough but we will see what happens in the playoffs. 

 

I think I still take Young but the conversation is much more difficult to have now.  I probably would have tried to flip Haskins for a 2nd or a 3rd in the offseason as it would have been much easier to write off as "new regime, not their guy" conversation... of course if I did that and didn't take a QB early the analysts would have a field day with me... but who cares.... and for this exercise, I knew then what I know now. 

 

 

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Est.1974

Est.1974

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2 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Yeah, QB trumps all. For me it would be Herbert, trade back some for someone to take Young and then have a QB. Is there anyone that wouldnt trade a potential monster DE for a franchise QB?

I think it’s obvious too, you’d take Herbert.

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KDawg

KDawg

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25 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Take Zach Wilson. You just have to if he’s there and Fields isn’t.

 

19 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Yep. The "we need to build a OL first" crowd needs to shut it...that is what FA is for. 


Im actually a build the OL first crowd guy. But it’s obvious how bad this franchise is in need of a guy to believe in right now. It’s so, so needed from a morale stand point.

 

Fields likely isn’t going to be there for us... so it looks like Wilson be the guy we draft.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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I've seen I think enough to know that Fields is likely a pure stud of a QB.  I'd be as jazzed to get him as I was Chase -- simply because you need a franchise QB to win.  And Fields looks to me borderline slam dunk.  

 

The runner ups for me are Zach Wilson and Trey Lance albeit right now my take on Lance is purely just related to watching highlights and reading about the dude. I've dived some into Wilson so I am much more confident as to my opinion on him. 

 

At this point, I am hoping for a high round pick versus meaningless wins. 

 

We aren't going anywhere IMO without a QB so that's where my focus is in the first round. 

 

Clinton Portis said this in one interview when he was asked why this team can't get over the hump. And to paraphrase one of his points to that question was he more or less said they can't get over the hump because they are never bad enough to get the top QB or 2nd best QB in a loaded NFL draft, they are always shopping in that next pool.  He talked about them missing out on elite players period.

 

It's not a reach (some NFL insiders have made this point) to say that Haskins, Ramsey, Campbell were all 2nd round type QB talents let alone the top of the heap type of talent. 

 

Yeah sometimes you can get lucky shopping for a QB who isn't per se considered top of the heap.   But the odds aren't with you.  If we keep going 6-10 verus 2-14 at the right time -- we will unlikely break out of this funk.  And if all these QB prospects come out in this draft, this is the right time IMO to get a QB. 

 

And I know its unpopular with some to root for tanking.  I ended up doing it last year when the season got out of hand and Chase Young was in sight.   Now I am doubling down on it, we need a Chase Young on offense.  And I can care less about some meaningless win on the course of a season that isn't headed anywhere near the big dance.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 


Im actually a build the OL first crowd guy. But it’s obvious how bad this franchise is in need of a guy to believe in right now. It’s so, so needed from a morale stand point.

 

Fields likely isn’t going to be there for us... so it looks like Wilson be the guy we draft.

 

I am a big O line guy.  But I do agree that you need that guy at QB that this team can believe in.   We've done some dances under Dan with big time offensive supporting casts (some of the Jay years).  Big time O lines (some of the years under Gibbs 2).  Big time running games (Gibbs 2, Shanny).  And big time defenses (some of the years during Gibbs 2).

 

The common denominator for this team's failures has been QB.   Dan's era has been comically bad at it and if we finally break out of that funk I think that will help bring some needed belief in this franchise's fortunes being turned around. 

 

In theory at least, this might end up to be an intriguing year for QBs in the draft. 

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carex

carex

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On 11/4/2020 at 2:00 PM, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Sadly, deep down I think we knew then exactly what we know now.

 

You’d take a QB.

 

I sure as hell wouldn't.  Hell, Chase as a Giant with Geron Christian at LT probably ends Justin Herbert's career in his first year

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  • zCommander changed the title to 2021 Draft Order / Tracker: Current Pick #5
philibusters

philibusters

Posted
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14 minutes ago, KDawg said:


The Giants beat us twice and still have a better pick? 

 

Serioiusly.  I thought it was based on the opponent win percentage.  To date NYG have played Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay.  How can their schedule to date be easier than ours given that?

Nevermind.  The Giants are 2-7 and we are 2-6.

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Conn

Conn

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1 hour ago, carex said:

 

I sure as hell wouldn't.  Hell, Chase as a Giant with Geron Christian at LT probably ends Justin Herbert's career in his first year

It’s silly to say with what we’ve seen of Herbert that he wouldn’t have been the right pick. Of course he would have, with hindsight, he’s a natural and a stud out there. The Giants wouldn’t have gotten Young in that scenario anyways. 

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