2021 Draft Order / Tracker: Current Pick #19

[method man]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Yeah, and Julio is 6'3 / 225 and ran a 4.39.  Chase is 6'0 / 207.  They're not the same player.  

 

I was actually very critical of Atlanta giving up what they did to go get Julio.  He's probably got a spot in Canton, but Atlanta has zero Super Bowls, so the conversation becomes... was it worth it?  

 

2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 2 fourth round picks.  5 picks in all to get up to no. 6 to take Julio.  I personally don't think it was worth it for the long term of the team. 

 

Why did AJ Green go over Julio then if Julio was seen as this generational prospect? I wonder as an aside what AJ's number would look like if he had Matt Ryan throwing to him vs Andy Dalton most of his career

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Why did AJ Green go over Julio then if Julio was seen as this generational prospect? I wonder as an aside what AJ's number would look like if he had Matt Ryan throwing to him vs Andy Dalton most of his career

 

If memory serves, Julio was seen as a bit of an injury risk.

[Silvernon]

53 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Yeah, and Julio is 6'3 / 225 and ran a 4.39.  Chase is 6'0 / 207.  They're not the same player.  

 

I was actually very critical of Atlanta giving up what they did to go get Julio.  He's probably got a spot in Canton, but Atlanta has zero Super Bowls, so the conversation becomes... was it worth it?  

 

2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 2 fourth round picks.  5 picks in all to get up to no. 6 to take Julio.  I personally don't think it was worth it for the long term of the team. 

I didn't agree with the draft capital given up. 

 

When I started to dig into the 2012 first round prospects and projecting the Falcons to be an average or better team, it seemed like a good decision. Then it became the right decision with time. 

 

If the Redskins had traded up for Watt instead of trading down, I doubt they would be regretting it. Elite talent in the NFL is super important. If your coach fails maximize that talent, fire him. 

[757SeanTaylor21]

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Yeah, and Julio is 6'3 / 225 and ran a 4.39.  Chase is 6'0 / 207.  They're not the same player.  

 

I was actually very critical of Atlanta giving up what they did to go get Julio.  He's probably got a spot in Canton, but Atlanta has zero Super Bowls, so the conversation becomes... was it worth it?  

 

2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 2 fourth round picks.  5 picks in all to get up to no. 6 to take Julio.  I personally don't think it was worth it for the long term of the team. 

I mean if they ran the ball In the second half he has 1 ring

[OVCChairman]

5 hours ago, method man said:

 

Why did AJ Green go over Julio then if Julio was seen as this generational prospect? I wonder as an aside what AJ's number would look like if he had Matt Ryan throwing to him vs Andy Dalton most of his career

 

I didn't say he should or shouldn't have.... I just said Jamarr Chase was not the same as Julio.  Re-Reading the post, I kind of misread it, the OP wasn't saying they were the same, just that he's the best prospect 'since.'  So for my response, it was a little more literal than it probably should have been.  My comment was based on the idea that Chase 'is the next Julio' thats my bad. 

 

I actually thought AJ Green was on par with Julio coming out... and like I said in my post, was critical of the draft capital given up by ATL to go up and get him.  Green was supremely limited by the offense and QB he played with.  Marvin Lewis was consistently adequate to a fault on that team.  

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, VaK9Trainer said:

 

Think about it this way though, IF they hadn't blown that Super Bowl your opinion would probably be much different. 

 

4 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

I mean if they ran the ball In the second half he has 1 ring

 

 

 

that's very true lol....

 

 

 

[Darth Tater]

5 hours ago, Silvernon said:

If the Redskins had traded up for Watt instead of trading down, I doubt they would be regretting it. Elite talent in the NFL is super important. If your coach fails maximize that talent, fire him. 

Watt was drafted onto a team that had a good core on defense, a great DC and did not have to switch positions. Further, for several years, the offense, while not great, limited  the other teams opportunities and helped limit what the other team's play selection. If we'd have had traded up for Watt, we would definitely be regretting it. Maybe not as much but still a good player on a team that has good players and a great coach WILL outplay an elite talent who is not surrounded by good talent and a mediocre (at best) coach.

[Silvernon]

11 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Watt was drafted onto a team that had a good core on defense, a great DC and did not have to switch positions. Further, for several years, the offense, while not great, limited  the other teams opportunities and helped limit what the other team's play selection. If we'd have had traded up for Watt, we would definitely be regretting it. Maybe not as much but still a good player on a team that has good players and a great coach WILL outplay an elite talent who is not surrounded by good talent and a mediocre (at best) coach.

Disagree. Completely. 

 

I have a hard time believing you watched those games back then if that's your argument. Arian Foster was awesome and Andre Johnson a legend, but Watt made timely plays and raised the entire level of that defense to support a weak offense.

 

Texans got by with a handful of elite players spread out.

 

Your theory about talent doesn't match the history of the NFL. 

[Warhead36]

Watt won DPOTY THREE times. How is this still an argument?

[Riggo#44]

Giants losing last night kinda sucked for my **** it all for Fields mission (I think we're out on the Lay down like dogs for Lawrence sweepstakes). Hopefully they keep Gettleman, they keep Jones and pass on a QB.

[lovemaskins]

I’d rather we play our best and build a team capable of winning first and then insert rookie QB.  That’s what the good teams do. Most teams around the league don’t have a number one pick at QB. They built a stable group, line, receivers defense and then inserted a QB. Doesn’t matter if you get Lawrence we’ll break him like we always do cause we’d be repeating the same mistake.  

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

I’d rather we play our best and build a team capable of winning first and then insert rookie QB.  That’s what the good teams do. Most teams around the league don’t have a number one pick at QB. They built a stable group, line, receivers defense and then inserted a QB. Doesn’t matter if you get Lawrence we’ll break him like we always do cause we’d be repeating the same mistake.  

Then you still want high draft picks to get those blue chip talents.

 

Picking at 7th would suck. If we're not top 5 we might as well freaking win the division.

[lovemaskins]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Then you still want high draft picks to get those blue chip talents.

 

Picking at 7th would suck. If we're not top 5 we might as well freaking win the division.

Plenty of talent to be had after 7 my good man. Just need to define what our value system is.

 

Get Blue chippers at blue chip positions like tackle pass rusher and corner. Spots like guard safety and tight ends can be had later. We could get a generational middle linebacker at 7, which we need. 
 

We have a lot of holes and grabbing a another QB doesn’t fix our team if everything else is still broken.  And yea I agree we do need franchise QB.
 

 

[lovemaskins]

Here’s a thought I had the other day:

 

if we had a 2020 draft do-over knowing what we know now about Haskins and Allen and Chase Young, should we have selected Tua or Justin Herbert at 2 or still selected the generational pass rusher?

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Giants losing last night kinda sucked for my **** it all for Fields mission (I think we're out on the Lay down like dogs for Lawrence sweepstakes). Hopefully they keep Gettleman, they keep Jones and pass on a QB.

 

 

I fear that not even a GM as pig headed as Gettleman would pass on a generational talent like Lawrence while hoping that Jones miraculously loses his propensity for turnover producing hero play.

[CommanderInTheRye]

5 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Here’s a thought I had the other day:

 

if we had a 2020 draft do-over knowing what we know now about Haskins and Allen and Chase Young, should we have selected Tua or Justin Herbert at 2 or still selected the generational pass rusher?

 

 

We still don't know what Chase or Tua will become but if we could go back in time armed with our present knowledge about Haskins I would seriously have to consider:

 

1. Trading Haskins well before the draft to the highest bidder.

2. Trading back from the 2nd pick to somewhere in the top 5.

3. Taking either Herbert or Tua with that pick.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, lovemaskins said:

Here’s a thought I had the other day:

 

if we had a 2020 draft do-over knowing what we know now about Haskins and Allen and Chase Young, should we have selected Tua or Justin Herbert at 2 or still selected the generational pass rusher?

Herbert has been good but I think I might still take Young. Herbert has a lot of weapons to throw to in LA.

 

Tua hasn't done anything yet.

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Herbert has been good but I think I might still take Young. Herbert has a lot of weapons to throw to in LA.

 

Tua hasn't done anything yet.

Agreed.

 

speaking of Tua, Skip Bayless earlier today tweeted “is it possible the dolphins move on from tua in the upcoming NFL Draft? Next on undisputed”. LOL WHAT? He only played ONE GAME! Da ****???? 

[nonniey]

36 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Agreed.

 

speaking of Tua, Skip Bayless earlier today tweeted “is it possible the dolphins move on from tua in the upcoming NFL Draft? Next on undisputed”. LOL WHAT? He only played ONE GAME! Da ****???? 

He's trolling the Redskins.

[Warhead36]

No way they move on from Tua unless he's just a complete trainwreck. Houston's pick won't be bad enough to get another QB but it can be used to get a blue chipper like Sewell or Chase which would help them a lot more.

[Cooleyfan1993]

6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

He's trolling the Redskins.

I dont think so, someone else commented on it saying there’s actually something that came out yesterday that people on Undisputed were debating. 

[Riggo#44]

5 hours ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

I fear that not even a GM as pig headed as Gettleman would pass on a generational talent like Lawrence while hoping that Jones miraculously loses his propensity for turnover producing hero play.

 

I think the Jets are going to win that contest. They are a whole bag of awful

[Rex Tomb]

You know what would be absolutely hilarious - if the Jets lose out, go 0-16, and Trevor Lawrence goes... nope... and stays in college for one more year.

[Riggo#44]

32 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

You know what would be absolutely hilarious - if the Jets lose out, go 0-16, and Trevor Lawrence goes... nope... and stays in college for one more year.

Like Peyton Manning did

[Darth Tater]

13 hours ago, Silvernon said:

Disagree. Completely. 

 

I have a hard time believing you watched those games back then if that's your argument. Arian Foster was awesome and Andre Johnson a legend, but Watt made timely plays and raised the entire level of that defense to support a weak offense.

 

Texans got by with a handful of elite players spread out.

 

Your theory about talent doesn't match the history of the NFL. 

My theory is proven by  NFL history and you'd agree if you ever have watched the game.

[KDawg]

17 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I dont think so, someone else commented on it saying there’s actually something that came out yesterday that people on Undisputed were debating. 

The report was “Dolphins made the move to Tua to see what they had prior to the 2021 Draft”

 

the way media ran with it was as if they didn’t believe in him and they wanted to see him.

 

What I believe the reality to be is that they know the Texans may pick high and there’s a chance Fields is on the board for them. They want to see Tua in game to make sure that they have what they think they have before they spend that high pick on Sewell or Chase. 
 

Worst case scenario for due diligence is if they keep playing Fitz, Tua comes in next year and is a total dumpster fire and they passed on Fields.