A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Zim489 believes we should have made a Godfather offer for Fields.  Basically the RGIII trade if that’s what it took. 

It wouldn’t have been 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, we’ve been through this.  They didn’t love Fields.  I think that’s the only guy you accept taking a swing on.  Because they didn’t want to give up multiple first round picks.  
 

Shrug.  They had 1 option in one draft.  They weren’t drafting a guy in 2020.  They chose not to in 2021 because Fields wasn’t worth it.  And there wasn’t a guy in 2022 worth taking higher than Howell.  
 

So, they took a shot at a stop gap with Fitzy and he got hurt and then with Wentz and he would have been fine. But then they forgot about the OL.

 

Im in the minority.  If they run this back again next year I want to see OL upgraded and Wentz again.  Because they won’t get a top pick in the draft.  And I would prefer to try the guy who now has a year in the system.  If it doesn’t work, fine.

 

I would also not re-sign TH so as to remove the binky.  

 

Actually I think they did at a minimum like fields a lot.  Sheehan said he heard it so did Keim.  The problem was they'd have had to trade into the top 10 and the teams there wanted a ransom and more than two first round picks, I get the impression it was an RG3 level haul or close enough to it and they wanted one of their young players, I am guessing Terry or Sweat.

 

So I get the impression that their take on Fields was similar to mine, they wanted him but not to extent that they'd give up the moon for him. 

8 hours ago, Zim489 said:

It wouldn’t have been 

 

How do you know that?  And this is coming from a dude, me, who pushed for Fields in real time, i wanted to trade up for him, i paid attention.  Keim indicated at the time, the trade would have to be in the top 10, (Eagles and Giants not trading with us for Fields) and whichever team (maybe Denver? but not sure) who was willing to trade asked for something big -- a major haul that was beyond just another first round pick.  If you find one source, even one who indicated otherwise, spill it here.  I am not working with my gut on this like you seem to be purely doing but instead on the only person who referenced what they heard -- and that person is rarely wrong -- Keim. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Cooleyfan1993]

12 hours ago, petey hodge said:

Now look...

I love ST21 just like the next guy.

 

But didn't the Snyder's already go to this well earlier in the season?  How many times are they going to milk the Sean Taylor commemoration!?

 

 

Not earlier this season. early LAST season.
 

Today being the 15th anniversary of his passing, it makes sense, and they announced actually a year ago today that there would be a Sean Taylor memorial planned for this season. So this is been in the works for about a year now 

[LetThePointsSoar]

6 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Not earlier this season. early LAST season.
 

Today being the 15th anniversary of his passing, it makes sense, and they announced actually a year ago today that there would be a Sean Taylor memorial planned for this season. So this is been in the works for about a year now 

 

It still feels dirty. Sean is sacred.  They should keep their grimy, expansion team, Commanders hands off the legacy of ST21. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

10 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

It still feels dirty. Sean is sacred.  They should keep their grimy, expansion team, Commanders hands off the legacy of ST21. 

Well, his family seems to be ok with it, otherwise they wouldn’t keep returning, and being at the teams practice on Friday, and accepting being the honorary captain for todays game (Jackie Taylor, the daughter)

 

 

last seasons thing was phony, sure. What they’re doing this time, it looks like it’s actually been planned out nicely

 

EDIT: welllllll…….guess not. Thanks @SkinsFTW for reminding me how stupid this was 😂

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim indicated at the time

Yo keep going back to this. Do you really think the staff would have told them “yeah we could have made that the trade up and it wouldn’t have cost too much” ?

 

Use your brain on this one. Keim is a mouth piece to cover their ass. They didn’t want to make a move. 

[@DCGoldPants]

I'm a believer in the Hogs Concept. Yes, you need a QB to win. Unless you have an all-time defense or a Hogs type OL, you don't have a chance. But, when you look at all these QBs drafted, for every there are more than a few that weren't top picks. Would you take Kyler Murray or J. Hurts? Daniel Jones or Dak? Trevor Lawrence or Lamar? 

 

What you can do is draft OL early and often every year so you have depth and you can move on when a guy wants to be the highest paid linemen because you have a guy 5 years younger and ready to step in. 

 

Next draft they'll be in the teens somewhere. I think it's a deep OL class. I wouldn't hesitate unless a really strong ILB is there. 

 

Depending in if ownership has changed. I wouldn't make a big QB splash. Would sooner roll with TH4 and Howell and focus on rebuilding the OL before putting another QB back there. 

 

We have no clue what Howell might be. He maybe have benefited a ton by sitting all year and getting the workouts, meetings, some 2nd team practice snaps when Wentz was hurt. Basically what Kirk got his 1st year here. He was a 1st round prospect before his final year at UNC. Outside a loss of a lot of weapons. He didn't change a ton. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by @DCGoldPants

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

21 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Yo keep going back to this. Do you really think the staff would have told them “yeah we could have made that the trade up and it wouldn’t have cost too much” ?

 

Use your brain on this one. Keim is a mouth piece to cover their ass. They didn’t want to make a move. 

What about Fields play until very recently made it appealing for them to go out of their way to lie about wanting him?

 

A lot of the stuff you claim Ron lies about, has no motive that makes sense for him to lie.

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't trade Jamin Davis straight up for Fields right now. Fields can run but is one of if not the worst passing QBs in the league and I have no faith Turner can design an offense around his very limited and niche skill set. Let alone Davis AND Dotson AND any other draft pick/young player it would have cost and yes it would have cost a lot. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't trade Jamin Davis straight up for Fields right now. Fields can run but is one of if not the worst passing QBs in the league and I have no faith Turner can design an offense around his very limited and niche skill set. Let alone Davis AND Dotson AND any other draft pick/young player it would have cost and yes it would have cost a lot. 

Yeah, I didn’t even mention this part of it.  The emergence of Fields as a run threat has been great for those of us that plucked him off the fantasy waiver wire.  But his ability to read defenses and throw with anticipation still don’t look so hot.  I’m not saying there’s no chance he develops into a legit all around QB, but thus far that seems a stretch.

 

I see zero reason for Ron to craft a lie as to why he wanted him badly but didn’t want to pay up.  It’s much more likely they really liked him but the compensation being sought was that of what you trade for a can’t miss, 1st year starter - of which Fields isn’t.

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't trade Jamin Davis straight up for Fields right now. Fields can run but is one of if not the worst passing QBs in the league and I have no faith Turner can design an offense around his very limited and niche skill set. Let alone Davis AND Dotson AND any other draft pick/young player it would have cost and yes it would have cost a lot. 

lol I get what you’re saying about the rest but Fields on his rookie contract would easily be worth an off ball linebacker like Davis no matter how well he’s playing. The running game would be even more bonkers, and he’d actually have weapons here. We’d be a super-charged version of what we are now and he has real upside as a passer, too. Don’t be that stubborn. We’d be lucky to be in that position. His upside is tremendous.
 

Yeah, probably not worth all the rest though just from a team-building POV. But hypothetically just Jamin Davis? Easily. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Conn

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Actually I think they did at a minimum like fields a lot.  Sheehan said he heard it so did Keim.  The problem was they'd have had to trade into the top 10 and the teams there wanted a ransom and more than two first round picks, I get the impression it was an RG3 level haul or close enough to it and they wanted one of their young players, I am guessing Terry or Sweat.

 

So I get the impression that their take on Fields was similar to mine, they wanted him but not to extent that they'd give up the moon for him. 

This is what I meant, they liked him, they didn't love him.  They tried to get up to get him, the cost was prohibitive, and they didn't want to spend multiple first, and probably more, on him.  

 

Which is about where I was also.  I liked him as a prospect, but I didn't think he was worth several years of 1st round picks and more to move up from 19 to 8 which is where they were going to have to get to in order to pick him.

 

@Zim489 has been consistent they should have basically done absolutely anything necessary to get fields because it was their only shot.  He's completely ademant Ron hasn't done anything to upgrade QB, dismissed the fact they tried for Wilson and Stafford because they weren't coming here, hated the Wentz deal, hated the Fitz deal, and has hung on for dear life that the move hey could have made was for Fields and the fact they didn't, Ron should be fired.  

 

Which is fine, I guess, but I don't think is reasonable.  

[Warhead36]

23 minutes ago, Conn said:

lol I get what you’re saying about the rest but Fields on his rookie contract would easily be worth an off ball linebacker like Davis no matter how well he’s playing. The running game would be even more bonkers, and he’d actually have weapons here. We’d be a super-charged version of what we are now and he has real upside as a passer, too. Don’t be that stubborn. We’d be lucky to be in that position. His upside is tremendous.
 

Yeah, probably not worth all the rest though just from a team-building POV. But hypothetically just Jamin Davis? Easily. 

I just don't see Fields lasting as a long term franchise QB. When you're that bad at reading defenses and slow at processing information and making decisions, its hard to get better. Being run first only works when you're just absolutely incredible and god tier at it like a Vick or Jackson.

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, Zim489 said:

It wouldn’t have been 

Yeah, it would have.  And the only person who doesn't realize that is you.  

 

Here's what the trade was to go 9 spots to 11:

 

the Bears received the 11th pick in the 2021 draft, and sent the No. 20 pick to the Giants, along with a 2022 first-round pick, a 2022 fourth-round pick and a fifth-round pick for 2021.

 

The problem: The Washington Football Team had to go to 8 at a minimum.  Denver broadcasted loudly they were taking Surtain, and then did, they were not moving from 9.  Philly at 10 wasn't going to trade with us, and the Giants certainly weren't going to deal with us at 11, where the Bears got to.

 

To get from 19 to 8 is a huge jump.  That's 11 spots and crosses potentially 2 "tiers" of prospects, going from top 10 all the way to the back half of the first round.  A team is not going to do that for just a First, Fourth and Fifth.  That's at least, and I mean bare minimum, swapping firsts and giving up the equivalent of 2 more firsts.  They could have gotten there in a variety of ways, but it would have bee a First+, maybe 2 Firsts, maybe a First + Second + Fourth, something like that. But in the end, no team is dropping from top 10 to 19 for just an additional future first + fourth.

 

It would have been massively expensive.  Literally everybody has said, all the draftniks and the reporters, it was really expensive.  You keep clinging to this thought it wouldn't have been against the avalanche of reporting it would have been.

 

Fields the prospect was not worth the cost in my opinion, and after 1.5 years, I think that's been fairly well proved out.  Though he's playing better lately.  

53 minutes ago, Conn said:

Yeah, probably not worth all the rest though just from a team-building POV. But hypothetically just Jamin Davis? Easily. 

Sure.  But it would have been the equivalent of your 2022 and 2023 first round picks.  The Giants swapped, so they moved back to 20, but they also picked up a 2022 first (that would have been Dotson) + 2022 4th, + 2021 5th.  

 

And we would have to give up more, probably MUCH more because we had to get to 8 from 19.  So, at the minimum it's the Giants deal + 50% to move up an additional 3 spots, and the Panthers would be moving down an additional 2 spots.  So the "gap" would be 5 positions vs. the Giants/Bears deal.  That's not trivial, and would have been much more expensive.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Yo keep going back to this. Do you really think the staff would have told them “yeah we could have made that the trade up and it wouldn’t have cost too much” ?

 

Use your brain on this one. Keim is a mouth piece to cover their ass. They didn’t want to make a move. 

 

Yep Keim is clown.  If we need to get unbiased views of Rivera and this FO, most of us said Keim is the last person we'd turn to -- you would be the dude that we'd all turn to for both the insider information and completely unbiased take on anything but especially the even handed takes on Rivera.  

 

The fan base were all like you demanding Fields.  Rivera knew that.  And naturally he turned down a very reasonable deal and used Keim to cover it up for him -- because he's an old school coach who doesn't value QB play, we know he's said a million times that its a QB league but we all know that's Rivera peddiling things he really doesn't believe because we all know he is a shady character known for lying through his teeth and lies repeatedly about his takes on QBs just for kicks because that's how shady Rivera is, its almost diabolical.  😉

Edited November 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I just don't see Fields lasting as a long term franchise QB. When you're that bad at reading defenses and slow at processing information and making decisions, its hard to get better. Being run first only works when you're just absolutely incredible and god tier at it like a Vick or Jackson.

Fields is god tier as a runner. The issue is there is a ceiling on how far you can go as a team with one of these types of QBs 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Yo keep going back to this. Do you really think the staff would have told them “yeah we could have made that the trade up and it wouldn’t have cost too much” ?

 

Use your brain on this one. Keim is a mouth piece to cover their ass. They didn’t want to make a move. 

And you know this because you have talked to Ron, Martin and Marty? Or it has been reported anywhere?  Or (mostly likely) you are fitting a narrative to support your agenda on Ron?

 

Unless you have any way of KNOWING what they offered, didn't offer, wanted to do, or didn't want to do, you're just guessing.

 

All of the reporting is they tried to move up, even from reporters of other teams, I believe, but they didn't want to pull the trigger.  Ron has said in a presser they talked about it but they cost was too high for where they thought they were with the team.  

 

So, what you're doing is basically taking the reporting and what Ron has said publicly and dismissing it as fake news, but not having a shred of evidence to go the other direction.  

 

I think at this point you WANT it to be true maybe even more than you think it is true.  

[SoCalSkins]

They are too cheap to pony up for a statue and put in a mannequin with left over inventory? Wow. You would think they would get it right on the redo.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by SoCalSkins

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

14 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

They are too cheap to pony up for a statue and put in a mannequin with left over inventory? Wow. You would think they would get it right on the redo.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

You have to be ****ing kidding me. This organization would **** up a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

[Conn]

Countdown to Cooleyfan saying “the team never said it would be a statue, you people will complain about anything” in 5…4…3…2…

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Countdown to Cooleyfan saying “the team never said it would be a statue, you people will complain about anything” in 5…4…3…2…

Check the Gameday thread, I’m crapping all over the “memorial”. Bet you got your laughs in though……..**** this team. Hear me? ***^ this team!! 

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Check the Gameday thread, I’m crapping all over the “memorial”. Bet you got your laughs in though……..**** this team. Hear me? ***^ this team!! 

Apologies, I didn’t give you enough credit in that case. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, Conn said:

Apologies, I didn’t give you enough credit in that case. 

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Check the Gameday thread, I’m crapping all over the “memorial”. Bet you got your laughs in though……..**** this team. Hear me? ***^ this team!! 

Did you say **** this team or love this team and just use four stars.for love? 😂