2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Parsons is my #1 LB if his character checks out.  And I understand that's a big If.  I'll let them figure that out.  Keim seems to believe he might be on the table.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope not.  Any time there are questions concerning a player 9 out of 10 times it has merit.  I would stay away.  As I have heard from and others mention, we have to rely on our scouts and front office doing their homework on ALL of the players they are interested in.  Also, something else to think about teams ( and our team is no different) are trying to move teams up ahead of them and playing mental games right now saying they like this player and that player.  Teams are using our social media guys as tools to some extent.

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Parsons is my #1 LB if his character checks out.  And I understand that's a big If.  I'll let them figure that out.  Keim seems to believe he might be on the table.

 

 

 

 

 

Keep em coming, SIP.   It could be we are trying to sell MP so we can draft JOK instead or another player at another position.  Just a thought. 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I 100% disagree with this entire take. 

 

Agree. Game breaking run away speed is over rated in a RB. Najee has literally everything else you'd want, and he IS plenty fast. Blocking. Receiving. Whatever you want. 

[Warhead36]

I could see why we want Parsons. Rivera and Del Rio are both former LBs and Parsons can do it all. His one weakness seems to be man coverage but I think we can coach him up there with how naturally talented and athletic he is.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I 100% disagree with this entire take. 

Thats fair, I know a lot of people will feel that way. I’m fine with that, I think enough digital internet ink has been spilled in the war on RB draft capital and even Najee in particular already lol 

[mistertim]

45 minutes ago, The Rook said:

🤔Peyton Manning and Drew Brees? Brett Farve?

 

 

 

The Rook

 

Sure, Peyton was a FA though there were plenty of questions about how much he still had in the tank at his age and with his injury at that point. When Brees signed with NO he was coming off of a major injury on his throwing shoulder and though he'd had a couple of good years I don't think he was considered a top 5 QB at the time. Favre is just a odd duck in general. Retired, didn't, retired again, didn't. He was 40 years old when he went to the Jets (though he was actually traded).

 

So yeah those guys are examples, but in each case they were not only exceptions to the rule, but each had major question marks that allowed them to become FAs. Peyton: age and injury, Brees: injury, Favre: age and being an indecisive knucklehead. Not only that, but the teams that let them go also had new franchise QBs. The Colts were ready to draft Luck at #1 overall, the Chargers had drafted Rivers, and the Packers had Rodgers.

 

Unless a guy has a major question mark you're not going to see a top QB hit FA. Also, teams aren't going to let a top 5 franchise QB walk without having another guy or backup plan to draft one high. 

 

The general idea that I was responding to was if we just build a great team a top flight FA QB will just sort of fall out of the sky, and is nonsensical.

Edited April 17, 2021 by mistertim

[86 Snyder]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the idea that RB isn't a top need angle.  And I agree with it.  But as for explaining they aren't who we think they are -- what do you mean?  They aren't that good?

 

Correct, they aren't elite prospects.  This is a pretty bad draft for RBs actually.

[PartyPosse]

Parsons can either take the defense over the top or drag it down through his antics. I’ve softened my harsh stance on him recently not because of him or what he’s said but because I trust the veteran leadership of the team particularly on that side of the ball. As good as Chase was on the field, it’s incredible to see how vocal he was and how quickly he because the leader even with some longtime stout figures there. He’s infectious and I think he would be a good influence on Parsons. 

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Agree. Game breaking run away speed is over rated in a RB. Najee has literally everything else you'd want, and he IS plenty fast. Blocking. Receiving. Whatever you want. 

Wouldn't Harris and Gibson make a great 2-headed monster?

[@DCGoldPants]

2 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

You have to think long term and not just for one year. If you think Lance/Fields can be a high caliber QB for 15 years, you make that trade up easy. 

 

If anybody thinks 15 years for a player, I want to know what they are smoking. If you had as many needs as this team does, trading the ability to draft those needs isn't easy at all. Again, could be all smokescreens but it definitely sounds like they if they want a QB, they want one who has more to scout on.

 

Feels like this line was being more honest that we expected. 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by @SkinsGoldPants

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Correct, they aren't elite prospects.  This is a pretty bad draft for RBs actually.

 

OK to each their own.  For me everytime i watch Harris in particular, I am blown away.   His stats back it up and more some -- almost 1500 yards on the ground, 400 plus as a receiver, 26 TDs.  Those are crazy numbers.  If that makes him just an decent RB but nothing special -- than last college season had to be some miracle for Harris.  Those aren't common numbers for even elite college running backs

 

Lots of talk in South Florida about the Dolphins taking Harris at #18.  I got a lot of friends/family who are Dolphin fans and the idea from what I can tell isn't met with one whit of scorn or disappointment unlike some of the sentiment about Harris on this thread.    The Dolphin fans, at least the ones I know, seem jazzed by it.  

 

Etienne who broke the rushing record for the ACC, has some Dalvin Cook in him.  But just that mere thought brings me back to the idea of taking Dalvin Cook wasn't warmly embraced on this thread either.   Cook was trashed, too. 

 

So I guess it comes with the turf at the RB spot.   I am trying to recall a RB that was universally embraced here -- maybe Barkley?

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

10 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

If anybody thinks 15 years for a player, I want to know what they are smoking. If you had as many needs as this team does, trading the ability to draft those needs isn't easy at all. Again, could be all smokescreens but it definitely sounds like they if they want a QB, they want one who has more to scout on.

 

Feels like this was a line was being more honest that we expected. 

 

It doesn't matter how many needs you have or how many starts they have. If you believe a guy has the talent to be a high caliber or elite QB, you get him. There's no asset more valuable than a top 10 QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

I hope not.  Any time there are questions concerning a player 9 out of 10 times it has merit.  I would stay away.  As I have heard from and others mention, we have to rely on our scouts and front office doing their homework on ALL of the players they are interested in.  Also, something else to think about teams ( and our team is no different) are trying to move teams up ahead of them and playing mental games right now saying they like this player and that player.  Teams are using our social media guys as tools to some extent.

Keep em coming, SIP.   It could be we are trying to sell MP so we can draft JOK instead or another player at another position.  Just a thought. 

 

Cool but if we are going to trust our scouts to figure it out why hope they don't pull the trigger on him?  If they pull the trigger it would mean in their minds he checked out fine.  I don't have a strong opinion on Parsons and his personality one way or another.  I see the same red flags but we only know an iota of what they do.  

 

To your point about disinformation, yeah for sure.  I noticed Mayhew slipped in the press conference that teams will have a hard time having a beat on what type of QB they are interested in because of how they've talked about the spot publicly.  And he suggested that he liked that mystery.  Then in that same press conference he starts saying things that seem designed to put people off the trail that they'd be interested in certain QB prospects because they value experience so much.

 

I'd guess that was a half truth and they said it on purpose.    I am sure every team values experience so that part is true.  But if the rumor is they like certain QBs that Keim and others have spoken about then it can't be true.  We've heard from multiple reporters they like Davis Mills.  But the dude has less experience than any of the top QBs in this draft. Mac Jones and Lance don't have much experience.  Arguably Fields doesn't have a lot.   Heck even Trask isn't that experienced.  So who is left then?  Mond?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

I don't understand why anyone wants to trade up for a LB, let alone one who was involved in sexual hazing, when we don't have a long term QB. You're so scared of taking risks and that you don't understand how teams can put themselves in absolute purgatory.

[Darth Tater]

Several first round QBs I thought were can't miss were but I've never been wrong about a first round QB I thought would fail. I would not touch Lance unless he is available in round 2.

[JoggingGod]

Just now, Darth Tater said:

Several first round QBs I thought were can't miss were but I've never been wrong about a first round QB I thought would fail. I would not touch Lance unless he is available in round 2.

Got any proof? Because I could say the same thing if I wanted to.

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cool but if we are going to trust our scouts to figure it out why hope they don't pull the trigger on him?  If they pull the trigger it would mean in their minds he checked out fine.  I don't have a strong opinion on Parsons and his personality one way or another.  I see the same red flags but we only know an iota of what they do.  

 

To your point about disinformation, yeah for sure.  I noticed Mayhew slipped in the press conference that teams will have a hard time having a beat on what type of QB they are interested in because of how they've talked about the spot publicly.  And he suggested that he liked that mystery.  Then in that same press conference he starts saying things that seem designed to put people off the trail that they'd be interested in certain QB prospects because they value experience so much.

 

I'd guess that was a half truth and they said it on purpose.    I am sure every team values experience so that part is true.  But if the rumor is they like certain QBs that Keim and others have spoken about then it can't be true.  We've heard from multiple reporters they like Davis Mills.  But the dude has less experience than any of the top QBs in this draft. Mac Jones and Lance don't have much experience.  Arguably Fields doesn't have a lot.   Heck even Trask isn't that experienced.  So who is left then?  Mond?

All true.  We don't know and the media pundits guess.

[Darth Tater]

9 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Got any proof? Because I could say the same thing if I wanted to.

Most recent? Haskins. Earliest? Chuck Long.

[@DCGoldPants]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

It doesn't matter how many needs you have or how many starts they have. If you believe a guy has the talent to be a high caliber or elite QB, you get him. There's no asset more valuable than a top 10 QB.

You don't even have an OL to keep that high caliber elite prospect upright. 50 sacks last year. Not just Haskins. Alex took a ton. The other guys in their short stints took plenty. QBs who might be ok are overvalued at draft time. Then you think you're getting Mahomes instead of a Ponder or EJ Manuel. They admit with how the college season went and the virtual combine, scouting is much harder this year. Not shocking that results in the most desired position to then have a bunch of guys projected so highly now. Thankfully desperate teams like San Fran go all in and hopefully the Falcons and Denver and New England all go QB... And it pushes some top 10 talent down to 19.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by @SkinsGoldPants

[duffy]

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Alabama IDL - 😀

Alabama LBs- 😑

 

Their LBs NEVER seem to work out. Even CJ Mosley has flamed out. 

 

Maybe I am misremembering, but I recall he was a stud in Baltimore. This ultimately led to him receiving a large contract with the Jets. I would blame the garbage team he went to (and maybe injuries?) for his decline. 

 

But generally speaking, I would mostly agree with you about the DL and LB success rate. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by duffy

[Burgundy Yoda]

18 minutes ago, duffy said:

 

Maybe I am misremembering, but I recall he was a stud in Baltimore. This ultimately led to him receiving a large contract with the Jets. I would blame the garbage team he went to (and maybe injuries?) for his decline. 

 

But generally speaking, I would mostly agree with you about the DL and LB success rate. 

No, he was pretty good in Baltimore and one of the few Alabama LBs in the last 10 or so years that turned out to be a good player, unless I'm ultimately forgetting someone. Currently though, he hasn't played in two years and will be 29 to start the season, I think the chances of him getting back to how good he was in Baltimore is slim, I've also heard rumors that football isn't his primary focus.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Anselmheifer]

CJ Mosley was very good in Bmore. He just had a shoulder injury and then opted out for COVID. Not sure what that has to do with Alabama. 
 

Reuben Foster looked like an All pro the first part of his rookie season. Career derailed by personal life struggles and a huge non contact injury. 
 

Donta Hightower?
 

I wouldn’t say Alabama’s LB’s aren’t good. 

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

You don't even have an OL to keep that high caliber elite prospect upright. 50 sacks last year. Not just Haskins. Alex took a ton. The other guys in their short stints took plenty. QBs who might be ok are overvalued at draft time. Then you think you're getting Mahomes instead of a Ponder or EJ Manuel. They admit with how the college season went and the virtual combine, scouting is much harder this year. Not shocking that results in the most desired position to then have a bunch of guys projected so highly now. Thankfully desperate teams like San Fran go all in and hopefully the Falcons and Denver and New England all go QB... And it pushes some top 10 talent down to 19.

 

 

PFF had our line ranked top half of the league. The sacks came from Haskins and Alex being absolute statues. Lance has Cam-like ability to escape the pocket anyways so this isn't a relavent post.

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

PFF had our line ranked top half of the league. The sacks came from Haskins and Alex being absolute statues. Lance has Cam-like ability to escape the pocket anyways so this isn't a relavent post.

Betting in guys like Cornelius Lucus to continue to play above their pay grade, instead of expecting regression to the mean, is asking for trouble. We can’t have a bunch of JAG/replacement level players at LT and expect the OL to play at an above average level. 

[JoggingGod]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Betting in guys like Cornelius Lucus to continue to play above their pay grade, instead of expecting regression to the mean, is asking for trouble. We can’t have a bunch of JAG/replacement level players at LT and expect the OL to play at an above average level. 

That shouldn't stop you from trying to get an elite talent at QB. Average line play works with high end playmaking talent + you can use free agency and day 2 to upgrade if needed

[Anselmheifer]

15 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

That shouldn't stop you from trying to get an elite talent at QB. Average line play works with high end playmaking talent + you can use free agency and day 2 to upgrade if needed

I don’t disagree with this either. I think I’ve circled around to my ideal being a trade up for Lance. Fields will go at 3 and I think Lance isn’t that unlike Cam in terms of his physical running style, and physique and arm. Scott and Ron will already know how to build an offense around him and we have a QB to play i. Front of him and groom him for a year. 
 

None of that means I don’t want an upgrade at LT.